Topic: AA versus The Sinclair Method for Alcoholism
Anonymous A started this discussion 6 years ago #93,926
AA: religious cult filled with scum and stupid people, with a success rate of 7% or so, a lifetime of miserable white-knuckling, and you can never drink again.
TSM: based on science and scientifically tested with a 100% success rate, you can still drink if you want but you literally require your brain and get control over alcohol.
TSM: based on science and scientifically tested with a 100% success rate, you can still drink if you want but you literally require your brain and get control over alcohol.
Meta !Sober//iZs joined in and replied with this 6 years ago, 46 seconds later[^] [v] #1,062,580
Or you could do what I did and just, you know, stop drinking.
Anonymous C joined in and replied with this 6 years ago, 3 minutes later, 4 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,062,582
Anonymous C double-posted this 6 years ago, 25 seconds later, 4 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,062,583
Anonymous D joined in and replied with this 6 years ago, 1 minute later, 5 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,062,584
require ur brain
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 6 years ago, 8 seconds later, 5 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,062,585
@1,062,580 (Meta !Sober//iZs)
Alcoholics cannot just stop is the thing, any more than a starving man could refuse a delicious meal.
Alcoholics cannot just stop is the thing, any more than a starving man could refuse a delicious meal.
Anonymous C replied with this 6 years ago, 7 minutes later, 13 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,062,589
@previous (A)> Alcoholics cannot just stop is the thing, any more than a starving man could refuse a delicious meal.
stop drinking. start loving
Meta !Sober//iZs replied with this 6 years ago, 21 hours later, 21 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,062,847
@1,062,585 (A)
> Alcoholics cannot just stop is the thing, any more than a starving man could refuse a delicious meal.
They do all the time. There are a lot of alcoholics who have been sober for 10,20,30+ years. I myself haven't had a drop of alcohol in over 18 months. Was it easy? No, it was about the hardest thing I've ever done. Was it worth it? Absolutely.
Don't even get me started on AA. I think it's totally fucked up and backwards and you should see the rants I've posted on the recovery forum. But the Sinclair method I don't understand at all. Like, I disagree with AA philosophy but at least it's coherent and I can understand how it works and there is a certain logic to it. But the Sinclair method? I just don't get it.
So you drink too much. You are unable to moderate your drinking. It's causing you problems and making your life hell. So the solution is to take a pill that makes drinking unenjoyable so you can keep drinking... for what, exactly?
You need willpower too. What's going to keep you taking your pills? You know the pills are what is making alcohol unenjoyable. You know you could skip the pill and get proper drunk. Every day I have to make the choice to abstain from alcohol, and every day you have to make the choice to take your naltrexone. I don't see how it's any different.
It's even worse though because you have to make sure to take your pill an hour before drinking. What if you unexpectedly get offered a drink? Are you going to have the willpower to say "no, I need to pop my naltrexone, get back with me in an hour"? If you have enough willpower to turn the drink down for an hour, surely you have enough to just turn it down outright.
The real danger though is it's going to fuck with your brain chemistry. It blocks endorphins so you get no pleasure not just from alcohol but from anything. This is why you associate sobriety with being miserable. Because alcohol fucked up your brain chemistry and instead of stopping alcohol and letting your mind heal, you decide to fuck it up even more with naltrexone so you can continue fucking it up with alcohol. No wonder you're having such a bad time.
> Alcoholics cannot just stop is the thing, any more than a starving man could refuse a delicious meal.
They do all the time. There are a lot of alcoholics who have been sober for 10,20,30+ years. I myself haven't had a drop of alcohol in over 18 months. Was it easy? No, it was about the hardest thing I've ever done. Was it worth it? Absolutely.
Don't even get me started on AA. I think it's totally fucked up and backwards and you should see the rants I've posted on the recovery forum. But the Sinclair method I don't understand at all. Like, I disagree with AA philosophy but at least it's coherent and I can understand how it works and there is a certain logic to it. But the Sinclair method? I just don't get it.
So you drink too much. You are unable to moderate your drinking. It's causing you problems and making your life hell. So the solution is to take a pill that makes drinking unenjoyable so you can keep drinking... for what, exactly?
You need willpower too. What's going to keep you taking your pills? You know the pills are what is making alcohol unenjoyable. You know you could skip the pill and get proper drunk. Every day I have to make the choice to abstain from alcohol, and every day you have to make the choice to take your naltrexone. I don't see how it's any different.
It's even worse though because you have to make sure to take your pill an hour before drinking. What if you unexpectedly get offered a drink? Are you going to have the willpower to say "no, I need to pop my naltrexone, get back with me in an hour"? If you have enough willpower to turn the drink down for an hour, surely you have enough to just turn it down outright.
The real danger though is it's going to fuck with your brain chemistry. It blocks endorphins so you get no pleasure not just from alcohol but from anything. This is why you associate sobriety with being miserable. Because alcohol fucked up your brain chemistry and instead of stopping alcohol and letting your mind heal, you decide to fuck it up even more with naltrexone so you can continue fucking it up with alcohol. No wonder you're having such a bad time.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 6 years ago, 29 minutes later, 21 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,062,876
@previous (Meta !Sober//iZs)
The Sinclair Method is not what you think it is. You only take the pill if you are going to drink. You still get drunk. What it does, is block the opiate channels from becoming so big and hard wired for addiction. They actually physically revert back to the way your brain was before you ever drank. It allows you to choose to drink, if you want, rather than have to drink. Or, some people choose abstinence. It is about science, not willpower. Because I no longer experience the opiate rush from alcohol, I have lost interest in it. The only time I drink is a glass or two of wine with dinner, if I am in a social setting. Sometimes not even that: I have gone through holidays and gatherings with no alcohol at all, even when they were offering really good champagne and expensive red. TSM has reworked my brain back to a normal relationship to alcohol: I can take it or leave it. No big deal. No cravings, no desire, no constantly thinking about wine, no planning every day around obtaining wine. It is now to me like rice or tea. If I want some, I have some, but I do not really think about it normally.
The Sinclair Method is not what you think it is. You only take the pill if you are going to drink. You still get drunk. What it does, is block the opiate channels from becoming so big and hard wired for addiction. They actually physically revert back to the way your brain was before you ever drank. It allows you to choose to drink, if you want, rather than have to drink. Or, some people choose abstinence. It is about science, not willpower. Because I no longer experience the opiate rush from alcohol, I have lost interest in it. The only time I drink is a glass or two of wine with dinner, if I am in a social setting. Sometimes not even that: I have gone through holidays and gatherings with no alcohol at all, even when they were offering really good champagne and expensive red. TSM has reworked my brain back to a normal relationship to alcohol: I can take it or leave it. No big deal. No cravings, no desire, no constantly thinking about wine, no planning every day around obtaining wine. It is now to me like rice or tea. If I want some, I have some, but I do not really think about it normally.
Anonymous A (OP) double-posted this 6 years ago, 37 seconds later, 21 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,062,878
@1,062,847 (Meta !Sober//iZs)
Also, there are very minor side effects that dissipate in a week or less. It rewires your brain, yes, but in a good way: back to normal.
Also, there are very minor side effects that dissipate in a week or less. It rewires your brain, yes, but in a good way: back to normal.
(Edited 16 seconds later.)
Anonymous A (OP) triple-posted this 6 years ago, 57 seconds later, 21 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,062,879
@1,062,847 (Meta !Sober//iZs)
btw I rarely drink, and you only take the pill if you drink. 99% of my life is no pill, no alcohol.
btw I rarely drink, and you only take the pill if you drink. 99% of my life is no pill, no alcohol.
(Edited 20 seconds later.)
Anonymous E joined in and replied with this 6 years ago, 6 minutes later, 22 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,062,882
@1,062,876 (A)
Are you in a Sinclair Method MLM or something? I get that you have a high opinion of it and that's great it has worked for you. But the "its about science" in that post and the "with a 100% success rate" in the OP just really throw up red flags for me because it sounds like bullshit sales rhetoric.
Are you in a Sinclair Method MLM or something? I get that you have a high opinion of it and that's great it has worked for you. But the "its about science" in that post and the "with a 100% success rate" in the OP just really throw up red flags for me because it sounds like bullshit sales rhetoric.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 6 years ago, 4 minutes later, 22 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,062,884
@previous (E)
No, I am just excited about it because it really worked for me, a lifelong alcoholic. And it really does work for anyone who stays compliant. It was developed through scientific testing and medical science.
No, I am just excited about it because it really worked for me, a lifelong alcoholic. And it really does work for anyone who stays compliant. It was developed through scientific testing and medical science.
Anonymous F joined in and replied with this 6 years ago, 5 minutes later, 22 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,062,887
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 6 years ago, 3 minutes later, 22 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,062,892
Anonymous E replied with this 6 years ago, 4 minutes later, 22 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,062,894
@1,062,884 (A)
> And it really does work for anyone who stays compliant
Yeah, I've heard that about AA and quitting cold turkey too.
It might not be the miracle cure for everybody. I'm glad you're happy and found something that worked for you. By all means, shout it from the rooftops if you think it will help people. Just be aware that your deep enthusiasm might come off as a little unrealistic to some.
> And it really does work for anyone who stays compliant
Yeah, I've heard that about AA and quitting cold turkey too.
It might not be the miracle cure for everybody. I'm glad you're happy and found something that worked for you. By all means, shout it from the rooftops if you think it will help people. Just be aware that your deep enthusiasm might come off as a little unrealistic to some.
Anonymous G joined in and replied with this 6 years ago, 14 minutes later, 22 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,062,896
AA is too basic, too entry-level. If you want results, you go to AAA.
Meta !Sober//iZs replied with this 6 years ago, 21 minutes later, 23 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,062,900
@1,062,878 (A)
You know what else puts your brain back to normal? Not consuming alcohol.
> 99% of my life is no pill, no alcohol.
So all this fuss and excitement so you can be 99% sober instead of 100% sober?
I thought you said alcoholics can't stop? You're able to turn down 99% of chances to drink, but you really can't push through that last 1%?
You know what else puts your brain back to normal? Not consuming alcohol.
> 99% of my life is no pill, no alcohol.
So all this fuss and excitement so you can be 99% sober instead of 100% sober?
I thought you said alcoholics can't stop? You're able to turn down 99% of chances to drink, but you really can't push through that last 1%?
Anonymous I joined in and replied with this 6 years ago, 1 hour later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,062,922
@1,062,894 (E)
It is the cure for everybody, because it is scientifically proven with a 100% success rate. It is, quite literally, the cure for everybody.
It is the cure for everybody, because it is scientifically proven with a 100% success rate. It is, quite literally, the cure for everybody.
Anonymous I double-posted this 6 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,062,923
@1,062,900 (Meta !Sober//iZs)
I could easily never drink again if I wanted to, but I do not want to. I do not want to miss out on parts of life. If, for example, a loved one has a baby or something like that, I want to be able to join in the Champagne toast. If I have an exception meal at a Michelin 3 starred restaurant in Paris, I want to be able to select a wonderful red wine to enjoy with the food pairing. You are still viewing this like an addict or AA member. To you, it is a matter of willpower, and proving that you can resist. To me, it is nothing like that anymore. I no longer have the same relationship with alcohol. It is the same as my relationship to any other food or drink. I could never drink orange juice again for the rest of my life if I chose to, but I would like to reserve the option to drink it again, because it tastes good.
I could easily never drink again if I wanted to, but I do not want to. I do not want to miss out on parts of life. If, for example, a loved one has a baby or something like that, I want to be able to join in the Champagne toast. If I have an exception meal at a Michelin 3 starred restaurant in Paris, I want to be able to select a wonderful red wine to enjoy with the food pairing. You are still viewing this like an addict or AA member. To you, it is a matter of willpower, and proving that you can resist. To me, it is nothing like that anymore. I no longer have the same relationship with alcohol. It is the same as my relationship to any other food or drink. I could never drink orange juice again for the rest of my life if I chose to, but I would like to reserve the option to drink it again, because it tastes good.