Topic: My latest interaction with a "Christian" Trump supporter
BacPoopoo !BACPOOPOOo started this discussion 6 years ago #93,738
Me: "Trump has told over 13,000 verifiable lies, and he sees nothing wrong with lying. Lying is a sin. How can you, a Christian, support an unrepentant liar?"
Hillbilly: "We'r all liars! The Bible says so!"
Me: "Yeah, it says that we are all liars, and that lying is a sin that we should repent of and stop!"
Hillbilly: "Urgent business meeting Zooooooooooooooooom..."
Hillbilly: "We'r all liars! The Bible says so!"
Me: "Yeah, it says that we are all liars, and that lying is a sin that we should repent of and stop!"
Hillbilly: "Urgent business meeting Zooooooooooooooooom..."
jodi !ariasXXmaE joined in and replied with this 6 years ago, 1 minute later[^] [v] #1,060,875
back poopoo
Sheila LaBoof joined in and replied with this 6 years ago, 2 minutes later, 3 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,876
the Lord has deep hatred for the hypocrite, who surely shall be consumed in the lake of fire
BacPoopoo !BACPOOPOOo (OP) replied with this 6 years ago, 16 minutes later, 20 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,879
Anonymous D joined in and replied with this 6 years ago, 11 minutes later, 32 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,882
Meta !Sober//iZs joined in and replied with this 6 years ago, 24 minutes later, 56 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,889
Fuck the bible ???Also the bible says sodomites should be put to death (like they do in Muslim countries). Do you support that @OP? If not, you have no greater claim to Christian morality than he does.
BacPoopoo !BACPOOPOOo (OP) replied with this 6 years ago, 2 minutes later, 58 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,894
Father Merrin !u5oFWxmY7U joined in and replied with this 6 years ago, 43 seconds later, 59 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,895
@1,060,876 (Sheila LaBoof)
> the Lord has deep hatred for the hypocrite, who surely shall be consumed in the lake of fire
Preach, brother.
> the Lord has deep hatred for the hypocrite, who surely shall be consumed in the lake of fire
Preach, brother.
Meta !Sober//iZs replied with this 6 years ago, 14 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,900
@1,060,894 (BacPoopoo !BACPOOPOOo)
Sodomites will not inherit the kingdom of God. From the New Testament. Do you agree with this?
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men
1 Corinthians 6:9Sodomites will not inherit the kingdom of God. From the New Testament. Do you agree with this?
Anonymous G joined in and replied with this 6 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,902
@previous (Meta !Sober//iZs)
It was a typo. The bible said that sodomites WILL inherit the kingdom of God.
It was a typo. The bible said that sodomites WILL inherit the kingdom of God.
BacPoopoo !BACPOOPOOo (OP) replied with this 6 years ago, 3 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,903
@1,060,900 (Meta !Sober//iZs)
I agree that it is New Testament teaching. But it does not instruct man to kill them.
I agree that it is New Testament teaching. But it does not instruct man to kill them.
Meta !Sober//iZs replied with this 6 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,905
@previous (BacPoopoo !BACPOOPOOo)
But do you, personally, agree and believe that sodomites will not inherit the kingdom of God?
My own answer to this question is that no one, gay or otherwise, will inherit the kingdom of God because it does not exist. But do you agree with the New Testament that sodomites will not inherit the kingdom of God?
But do you, personally, agree and believe that sodomites will not inherit the kingdom of God?
My own answer to this question is that no one, gay or otherwise, will inherit the kingdom of God because it does not exist. But do you agree with the New Testament that sodomites will not inherit the kingdom of God?
(Edited 1 minute later.)
Meta !Sober//iZs double-posted this 6 years ago, 21 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,909
Matt sure got quiet ?
Anonymous D replied with this 6 years ago, 4 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,911
@1,060,905 (Meta !Sober//iZs)
> My own answer to this question is that no one, gay or otherwise, will inherit the kingdom of God because it does not exist.
Better to be quiet and let people think you are stupid than to say stupid shit and prove they are right.
> My own answer to this question is that no one, gay or otherwise, will inherit the kingdom of God because it does not exist.
Better to be quiet and let people think you are stupid than to say stupid shit and prove they are right.
(Edited 41 seconds later.)
BacPoopoo !BACPOOPOOo (OP) replied with this 6 years ago, 5 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,913
@1,060,905 (Meta !Sober//iZs)
I just do not know. I want to believe the Bible, but sometimes it is hard. I do not have an answer.
I just do not know. I want to believe the Bible, but sometimes it is hard. I do not have an answer.
BacPoopoo !BACPOOPOOo (OP) double-posted this 6 years ago, 20 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,914
Anonymous G replied with this 6 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,915
BacPoopoo !BACPOOPOOo (OP) replied with this 6 years ago, 4 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,917
Anonymous G replied with this 6 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,918
@previous (BacPoopoo !BACPOOPOOo)
No, the poop thing is too consistent to be just schtick. You masturbate to poo! Ha ha ha!
No, the poop thing is too consistent to be just schtick. You masturbate to poo! Ha ha ha!
BacPoopoo !BACPOOPOOo (OP) replied with this 6 years ago, 10 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,920
Anonymous G replied with this 6 years ago, 5 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,921
Meta !Sober//iZs replied with this 6 years ago, 36 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,926
@1,060,913 (BacPoopoo !BACPOOPOOo)
Regardless of what the bible says, is that something you personally believe in?
If I walked up and asked you "Hey Matt, do you think men who have sex with men will inherit the kingdom of God?" what would you say? Again, just what you personally believe, not what the bible says or doesn't say.
Regardless of what the bible says, is that something you personally believe in?
If I walked up and asked you "Hey Matt, do you think men who have sex with men will inherit the kingdom of God?" what would you say? Again, just what you personally believe, not what the bible says or doesn't say.
Anonymous G replied with this 6 years ago, 3 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,927
Anonymous H joined in and replied with this 6 years ago, 30 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,930
> Sodomites will not inherit the kingdom of God.
This is why we need to elect angels who will pass a bill to limit God's estate tax. What we're seeing is a strong executive tyranny running contrary to the will of the people.
This is why we need to elect angels who will pass a bill to limit God's estate tax. What we're seeing is a strong executive tyranny running contrary to the will of the people.
Anonymous I joined in and replied with this 6 years ago, 42 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,941
@OP
> Hillbilly: "Urgent business meeting Zooooooooooooooooom..."
Syntax hasn’t been on this forum for a long time, and yet you keep his mannerisms on your mind as if he’s posting right now.
You’re obsessed. Get help.
> Hillbilly: "Urgent business meeting Zooooooooooooooooom..."
Syntax hasn’t been on this forum for a long time, and yet you keep his mannerisms on your mind as if he’s posting right now.
You’re obsessed. Get help.
Meta !Sober//iZs replied with this 6 years ago, 1 hour later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,955
5 hours and Matt still cannot figure out whether he believes gays will inherit the kingdom of God. This is a question that took me all of 2 seconds to answer. That's because I'm not a hypocritical piece of shit like Matt using cheap "gotchas" and then running away when they backfire.
Meta !Sober//iZs double-posted this 6 years ago, 2 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,957
@1,060,927 (G)
There's something about this situation (non-Christians trying to hold Christians to biblical standards) that just bugs the hell out of me. Like if I saw a vegan eating a hamburger I wouldn't start lecturing him on veganism not because I don't think he's a hypocrite but because I'm the least vegan person on earth, I've never been a vegan and never will be, and honestly I'm not even remotely qualified to tell people how to be vegan. If I saw a vegan ni??a eating a hamburger I would think "he's failing at veganism which makes sense because veganism is totally gay and stupid". I would reassure him he's doing nothing wrong by eating meat and try to deprogram him from the vegan nonsense.
So I feel the same way about Matt and Christianity. Yes, Trump says lies. The Bible says lies are bad. Therefore, Trump is bad. The Bible also says gays should be killed and they will not inherit the kingdom of God, and if your hand allows you to masturbate you should cut it off (Matthew 5:30), homosexuals are reprobates whom god has given up to vile affections (Romans 1:26-28), and lots of other stuff.
Basically this attitude of "Aha! I will cherry pick this one concept from the bible to show how I am more pious than Christians!" bugs me. If you want to use the bible as a guide for morality, that's great. But use all of it. Even the icky parts that don't jive with progressivism in The Current Year.
There's something about this situation (non-Christians trying to hold Christians to biblical standards) that just bugs the hell out of me. Like if I saw a vegan eating a hamburger I wouldn't start lecturing him on veganism not because I don't think he's a hypocrite but because I'm the least vegan person on earth, I've never been a vegan and never will be, and honestly I'm not even remotely qualified to tell people how to be vegan. If I saw a vegan ni??a eating a hamburger I would think "he's failing at veganism which makes sense because veganism is totally gay and stupid". I would reassure him he's doing nothing wrong by eating meat and try to deprogram him from the vegan nonsense.
So I feel the same way about Matt and Christianity. Yes, Trump says lies. The Bible says lies are bad. Therefore, Trump is bad. The Bible also says gays should be killed and they will not inherit the kingdom of God, and if your hand allows you to masturbate you should cut it off (Matthew 5:30), homosexuals are reprobates whom god has given up to vile affections (Romans 1:26-28), and lots of other stuff.
Basically this attitude of "Aha! I will cherry pick this one concept from the bible to show how I am more pious than Christians!" bugs me. If you want to use the bible as a guide for morality, that's great. But use all of it. Even the icky parts that don't jive with progressivism in The Current Year.
BacPoopoo !BACPOOPOOo (OP) replied with this 6 years ago, 7 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,959
@1,060,926 (Meta !Sober//iZs)
Again, I would say that I instinctively would say "Sure," but I am not sure how I Feel about the Bible.
Again, I would say that I instinctively would say "Sure," but I am not sure how I Feel about the Bible.
BacPoopoo !BACPOOPOOo (OP) double-posted this 6 years ago, 1 minute later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,961
@1,060,957 (Meta !Sober//iZs)
Meta, I am a seminary almost-graduate who knows more about the Bible than you ever will. I know it in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin, and at one point, I could quote enormous sections of it from memory. I assure you that I Am quite familiar with what the Old and New Testament teach about homosexuality. My answer is that I instinctively say that homosexuals can be with God, but then that is contradicted by the Bible, which leads to my own struggle within myself.
Meta, I am a seminary almost-graduate who knows more about the Bible than you ever will. I know it in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin, and at one point, I could quote enormous sections of it from memory. I assure you that I Am quite familiar with what the Old and New Testament teach about homosexuality. My answer is that I instinctively say that homosexuals can be with God, but then that is contradicted by the Bible, which leads to my own struggle within myself.
Meta !Sober//iZs replied with this 6 years ago, 4 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,962
@1,060,959 (BacPoopoo !BACPOOPOOo)
But could you answer yes or no? Like if you asked me if I believe gays will inherit the kingdom of God I would say "No. I do not believe gays will inherit the kingdom of God.". Do you believe gays will inherit the kingdom of God, or not?
> I am not sure how I Feel about the Bible.
You felt pretty sure about the bible earlier when you were arguing with the Christian Trump supporter. Now you're arguing with an atheist Trump supporter and you're just not sure what you believe. Why so unsure all of a sudden? I'm 0% Christian so I would imagine you would have to be more Christian than I am, and thus more sure about how you feel regarding whether gays will inherit the kingdom of God or not, right?
But could you answer yes or no? Like if you asked me if I believe gays will inherit the kingdom of God I would say "No. I do not believe gays will inherit the kingdom of God.". Do you believe gays will inherit the kingdom of God, or not?
> I am not sure how I Feel about the Bible.
You felt pretty sure about the bible earlier when you were arguing with the Christian Trump supporter. Now you're arguing with an atheist Trump supporter and you're just not sure what you believe. Why so unsure all of a sudden? I'm 0% Christian so I would imagine you would have to be more Christian than I am, and thus more sure about how you feel regarding whether gays will inherit the kingdom of God or not, right?
BacPoopoo !BACPOOPOOo (OP) replied with this 6 years ago, 52 seconds later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,963
@previous (Meta !Sober//iZs)
Define "kingdom of God." You are using biblical terminology to ask me a question, then asking me not to use the Bible. Do I think gays can go to heaven? Yes.
Define "kingdom of God." You are using biblical terminology to ask me a question, then asking me not to use the Bible. Do I think gays can go to heaven? Yes.
Meta !Sober//iZs replied with this 6 years ago, 1 minute later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,964
@1,060,961 (BacPoopoo !BACPOOPOOo)
This is good! I'm glad we have a seminary graduate in the house! Using your biblical expertise, seminary training, knowledge of the bible in the original Hebrew and Koine Greek, and no doubt years of being a Christian, do you believe gays will inherit the kingdom of God, or not?
This is good! I'm glad we have a seminary graduate in the house! Using your biblical expertise, seminary training, knowledge of the bible in the original Hebrew and Koine Greek, and no doubt years of being a Christian, do you believe gays will inherit the kingdom of God, or not?
BacPoopoo !BACPOOPOOo (OP) replied with this 6 years ago, 5 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,965
Meta !Sober//iZs replied with this 6 years ago, 3 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,966
@1,060,963 (BacPoopoo !BACPOOPOOo)
I never said you can't use the bible. We're talking about a Bible verse, for goodness sake! Feel free to use as much or as little of the Bible - old and/or new testament - as you like to justify your answer. But the question remains - regardless of what you think about the bible - do you think gays will inherit the kingdom of God, or not?
> Define "kingdom of God."
Use any definition you like. Heaven, or earth after the second coming, or if you think the "kingdom of God" is a dumpster behind your local McDonalds, that's fine too. Whatever it is, will gays inherit it?
I never said you can't use the bible. We're talking about a Bible verse, for goodness sake! Feel free to use as much or as little of the Bible - old and/or new testament - as you like to justify your answer. But the question remains - regardless of what you think about the bible - do you think gays will inherit the kingdom of God, or not?
> Define "kingdom of God."
Use any definition you like. Heaven, or earth after the second coming, or if you think the "kingdom of God" is a dumpster behind your local McDonalds, that's fine too. Whatever it is, will gays inherit it?
BacPoopoo !BACPOOPOOo (OP) replied with this 6 years ago, 2 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,967
Meta !Sober//iZs replied with this 6 years ago, 2 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,968
@previous (BacPoopoo !BACPOOPOOo)
Okay, so if I went up to you and asked "Will gays inherit the kingdom of God?" You're answer would be "Yes". Is that a fair interpretation? (Just for clarity's sake my own answer to the same question would be "No")
Okay, so if I went up to you and asked "Will gays inherit the kingdom of God?" You're answer would be "Yes". Is that a fair interpretation? (Just for clarity's sake my own answer to the same question would be "No")
BacPoopoo !BACPOOPOOo (OP) replied with this 6 years ago, 48 seconds later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,969
@previous (Meta !Sober//iZs)
Again, it depends on the context. If you were asking biblically, then I would answer no. If you were asking my about my own heart's opinion, then I would say yes.
Again, it depends on the context. If you were asking biblically, then I would answer no. If you were asking my about my own heart's opinion, then I would say yes.
Father Merrin !u5oFWxmY7U joined in and replied with this 6 years ago, 3 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,970
@1,060,964 (Meta !Sober//iZs)
> This is good! I'm glad we have a seminary graduate in the house!
Happy to be here!
> This is good! I'm glad we have a seminary graduate in the house!
Happy to be here!
Meta !Sober//iZs replied with this 6 years ago, 6 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,973
@1,060,969 (BacPoopoo !BACPOOPOOo)
I think it's pretty clear that the bible says gays will not inherit the kingdom of God. But reading comprehension isn't what I want to know about.
Do you believe that part (1 Corinthians 6:9) of the bible is wrong or mistaken?
@previous (Father Merrin !u5oFWxmY7U)
The more the merrier! Do you think gays will inherit the kingdom of God?
I think it's pretty clear that the bible says gays will not inherit the kingdom of God. But reading comprehension isn't what I want to know about.
Do you believe that part (1 Corinthians 6:9) of the bible is wrong or mistaken?
@previous (Father Merrin !u5oFWxmY7U)
The more the merrier! Do you think gays will inherit the kingdom of God?
BacPoopoo !BACPOOPOOo (OP) replied with this 6 years ago, 1 minute later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,975
@previous (Meta !Sober//iZs)
Again, I struggle within regarding the Bible. I cannot say what I feel about that verse, because I am having a crisis of faith.
Again, I struggle within regarding the Bible. I cannot say what I feel about that verse, because I am having a crisis of faith.
Father Merrin !u5oFWxmY7U replied with this 6 years ago, 52 seconds later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,976
@1,060,973 (Meta !Sober//iZs)
If they're good people, then yes. The Church has softened its stance on this issue greatly under the current Pope.
If they're good people, then yes. The Church has softened its stance on this issue greatly under the current Pope.
Meta !Sober//iZs replied with this 6 years ago, 4 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,977
@1,060,975 (BacPoopoo !BACPOOPOOo)
What interests me is that you believe X, the bible says Y instead. How do you resolve this? Do you think the parts of the bible you don't agree with are mistaken? Like perhaps Paul misspoke, or maybe something got lost in translation, or perhaps added by someone else somewhere along the line?
It seems like an inherently unstable position to be in. Like, you can resolve this crisis by believing everything in the bible or nothing in the bible but to say "okay I believe in this part but not that part" just seems like a bit of a tightrope act. I don't lose any sleep about what the bible says because I believe none of it. I think it's all bronze age mythology bullshit. Interesting and worth studying, no doubt but not anything I would really agonize over how I felt about any of it.
What interests me is that you believe X, the bible says Y instead. How do you resolve this? Do you think the parts of the bible you don't agree with are mistaken? Like perhaps Paul misspoke, or maybe something got lost in translation, or perhaps added by someone else somewhere along the line?
It seems like an inherently unstable position to be in. Like, you can resolve this crisis by believing everything in the bible or nothing in the bible but to say "okay I believe in this part but not that part" just seems like a bit of a tightrope act. I don't lose any sleep about what the bible says because I believe none of it. I think it's all bronze age mythology bullshit. Interesting and worth studying, no doubt but not anything I would really agonize over how I felt about any of it.
Mod !WBRXcNtpf. joined in and replied with this 6 years ago, 1 hour later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,995
@1,060,970 (Father Merrin !u5oFWxmY7U)
> > This is good! I'm glad we have a seminary graduate in the house!
>
> Happy to be here!
He wasn't referring to you fucktard.
> > This is good! I'm glad we have a seminary graduate in the house!
>
> Happy to be here!
He wasn't referring to you fucktard.
Anonymous L joined in and replied with this 6 years ago, 10 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,996
Anonymous D replied with this 6 years ago, 9 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,997
Anonymous D double-posted this 6 years ago, 3 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,998
Sheila LaBoof replied with this 6 years ago, 3 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,060,999
@1,060,957 (Meta !Sober//iZs)
> There's something about this situation (non-Christians trying to hold Christians to biblical standards) that just bugs the hell out of me. Like if I saw a vegan eating a hamburger I wouldn't start lecturing him on veganism not because I don't think he's a hypocrite but because I'm the least vegan person on earth, I've never been a vegan and never will be, and honestly I'm not even remotely qualified to tell people how to be vegan. If I saw a vegan ni??a eating a hamburger I would think "he's failing at veganism which makes sense because veganism is totally gay and stupid". I would reassure him he's doing nothing wrong by eating meat and try to deprogram him from the vegan nonsense.
>
> So I feel the same way about Matt and Christianity. Yes, Trump says lies. The Bible says lies are bad. Therefore, Trump is bad. The Bible also says gays should be killed and they will not inherit the kingdom of God, and if your hand allows you to masturbate you should cut it off (Matthew 5:30), homosexuals are reprobates whom god has given up to vile affections (Romans 1:26-28), and lots of other stuff.
>
> Basically this attitude of "Aha! I will cherry pick this one concept from the bible to show how I am more pious than Christians!" bugs me. If you want to use the bible as a guide for morality, that's great. But use all of it. Even the icky parts that don't jive with progressivism in The Current Year.
you miss the point: shitheads fuck with people rights based on biblical justification. the least these assholes can do is live up to their own source of sense of right and wrong, or fuck off and stop interfering in people's business in the first place.
> There's something about this situation (non-Christians trying to hold Christians to biblical standards) that just bugs the hell out of me. Like if I saw a vegan eating a hamburger I wouldn't start lecturing him on veganism not because I don't think he's a hypocrite but because I'm the least vegan person on earth, I've never been a vegan and never will be, and honestly I'm not even remotely qualified to tell people how to be vegan. If I saw a vegan ni??a eating a hamburger I would think "he's failing at veganism which makes sense because veganism is totally gay and stupid". I would reassure him he's doing nothing wrong by eating meat and try to deprogram him from the vegan nonsense.
>
> So I feel the same way about Matt and Christianity. Yes, Trump says lies. The Bible says lies are bad. Therefore, Trump is bad. The Bible also says gays should be killed and they will not inherit the kingdom of God, and if your hand allows you to masturbate you should cut it off (Matthew 5:30), homosexuals are reprobates whom god has given up to vile affections (Romans 1:26-28), and lots of other stuff.
>
> Basically this attitude of "Aha! I will cherry pick this one concept from the bible to show how I am more pious than Christians!" bugs me. If you want to use the bible as a guide for morality, that's great. But use all of it. Even the icky parts that don't jive with progressivism in The Current Year.
you miss the point: shitheads fuck with people rights based on biblical justification. the least these assholes can do is live up to their own source of sense of right and wrong, or fuck off and stop interfering in people's business in the first place.
Anonymous D replied with this 6 years ago, 18 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,061,004
People love to hate on the Bible because it comdemns gayness and murdering babies.
(Edited 36 seconds later.)
Father Merrin !u5oFWxmY7U replied with this 6 years ago, 14 minutes later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,061,007
@1,060,995 (Mod !WBRXcNtpf.)
> > > This is good! I'm glad we have a seminary graduate in the house!
> >
> > Happy to be here!
>
> He wasn't referring to you Father.
I know but I exercised my God-given freedom of will and responded anyway!
> > > This is good! I'm glad we have a seminary graduate in the house!
> >
> > Happy to be here!
>
> He wasn't referring to you Father.
I know but I exercised my God-given freedom of will and responded anyway!
Mod !WBRXcNtpf. replied with this 6 years ago, 13 minutes later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,061,010
@previous (Father Merrin !u5oFWxmY7U)
> > > > This is good! I'm glad we have a seminary graduate in the house!
> > >
> > > Happy to be here!
> >
> > He wasn't referring to you Fucktard.
>
> I know but I exercised my God-given freedom of will and responded anyway!
He still wasn't responding to you fucktard.
> > > > This is good! I'm glad we have a seminary graduate in the house!
> > >
> > > Happy to be here!
> >
> > He wasn't referring to you Fucktard.
>
> I know but I exercised my God-given freedom of will and responded anyway!
He still wasn't responding to you fucktard.
Anonymous M joined in and replied with this 6 years ago, 1 hour later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,061,022
@1,060,961 (BacPoopoo !BACPOOPOOo)
> Meta, I am a seminary almost-graduate who knows more about the Bible than you ever will. I know it in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin, and at one point, I could quote enormous sections of it from memory. I assure you that I Am quite familiar with what the Old and New Testament teach about homosexuality. My answer is that I instinctively say that homosexuals can be with God, but then that is contradicted by the Bible, which leads to my own struggle within myself.
It’s not contradicted at all. You just suck at apologetics. Aren’t we all idolaters, and sexually immoral? Sin prevents us all from entering the kingdom of Heaven, only the blood of Jesus Christ can wash it away.
> Meta, I am a seminary almost-graduate who knows more about the Bible than you ever will. I know it in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin, and at one point, I could quote enormous sections of it from memory. I assure you that I Am quite familiar with what the Old and New Testament teach about homosexuality. My answer is that I instinctively say that homosexuals can be with God, but then that is contradicted by the Bible, which leads to my own struggle within myself.
It’s not contradicted at all. You just suck at apologetics. Aren’t we all idolaters, and sexually immoral? Sin prevents us all from entering the kingdom of Heaven, only the blood of Jesus Christ can wash it away.
Meta !Sober//iZs replied with this 6 years ago, 23 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,061,300
@1,060,996 (L)
Yes, I understand you are having a crisis of faith but - in the context of said crisis - how do you resolve the difference between what you believe and what the Bible says?
Like take Father Merrin for example. He doesn't try to figure out the Bible himself but consults an authority, the Pope, who says gays are basically okay now. I find it kind of unsatisfying myself. It just kind of shifts the question to how does the Pope reconcile this with 1 Corinthians 6:9 but it's the Pope's problem now, not Merrin's. Merrin decides the Pope is infallible and will follow his direction instead of his own interpretation.
There are other ways around this, too. Paul was writing a letter to the church in Corinth. Is a letter to a church really gospel? Maybe what he wrote was just guidance and instructions for that specific church at that specific time and is included in the Bible as something worth studying but not necessarily gospel. (kind of like how we might study the personal writings and letters of the Founding Fathers, but they aren't actually federal law) You could say that only Jesus and God the Father have the authority to make rules, and Paul was just one of Jesus' followers and his words carry no more weight than any other Christian.
There are countless ways to resolve this cognitive dissonance. What's yours?
Yes, I understand you are having a crisis of faith but - in the context of said crisis - how do you resolve the difference between what you believe and what the Bible says?
Like take Father Merrin for example. He doesn't try to figure out the Bible himself but consults an authority, the Pope, who says gays are basically okay now. I find it kind of unsatisfying myself. It just kind of shifts the question to how does the Pope reconcile this with 1 Corinthians 6:9 but it's the Pope's problem now, not Merrin's. Merrin decides the Pope is infallible and will follow his direction instead of his own interpretation.
There are other ways around this, too. Paul was writing a letter to the church in Corinth. Is a letter to a church really gospel? Maybe what he wrote was just guidance and instructions for that specific church at that specific time and is included in the Bible as something worth studying but not necessarily gospel. (kind of like how we might study the personal writings and letters of the Founding Fathers, but they aren't actually federal law) You could say that only Jesus and God the Father have the authority to make rules, and Paul was just one of Jesus' followers and his words carry no more weight than any other Christian.
There are countless ways to resolve this cognitive dissonance. What's yours?
Anonymous D replied with this 6 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,061,301
Meta !Sober//iZs replied with this 6 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,061,303
Anonymous M replied with this 6 years ago, 1 hour later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,061,316
Anonymous D replied with this 6 years ago, 24 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,061,320
Father Merrin !u5oFWxmY7U replied with this 6 years ago, 6 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,061,374
@1,061,300 (Meta !Sober//iZs)
> Like take Father Merrin for example. He doesn't try to figure out the Bible himself but consults an authority, the Pope, who says gays are basically okay now.
This isn't accurate my good man. I do "try to figure out the Bible" for myself, as every Christian must. My point about the Pope was not by way of explaining my own belief. I was just adding extra information that, step by step, the Church is thankfully moving away from a very strict and 'literal' reading of the Bible.
I mean, if I wanted to be really pedantic and talk only about the actual text then I could point out that the Bible does not say that homosexuals can't inherit the Kingdom of God. It speaks of homosexual behavior (which in this context - sodomy - includes also oral sex, which naturally includes almost every woman who's ever lived). That's to say nothing of the fact that the Apostle Paul was not Jesus, nor even a disciple (though naturally he's incredibly important, because of the central role he played in the building of the Church).
My belief that gays can go to Heaven was held long before Francis became Pope, and it was in fact a belief I expounded even during the dreadful reign of the zealot Ratzinger. God's Word is a living word, not a fascist regime.
> I find it kind of unsatisfying myself. It just kind of shifts the question to how does the Pope reconcile this with 1 Corinthians 6:9 but it's the Pope's problem now, not Merrin's. Merrin decides the Pope is infallible and will follow his direction instead of his own interpretation.
Again, thoroughly inaccurate, but hopefully you understand my position better now.
Bless you for the discussion, friend.
> Like take Father Merrin for example. He doesn't try to figure out the Bible himself but consults an authority, the Pope, who says gays are basically okay now.
This isn't accurate my good man. I do "try to figure out the Bible" for myself, as every Christian must. My point about the Pope was not by way of explaining my own belief. I was just adding extra information that, step by step, the Church is thankfully moving away from a very strict and 'literal' reading of the Bible.
I mean, if I wanted to be really pedantic and talk only about the actual text then I could point out that the Bible does not say that homosexuals can't inherit the Kingdom of God. It speaks of homosexual behavior (which in this context - sodomy - includes also oral sex, which naturally includes almost every woman who's ever lived). That's to say nothing of the fact that the Apostle Paul was not Jesus, nor even a disciple (though naturally he's incredibly important, because of the central role he played in the building of the Church).
My belief that gays can go to Heaven was held long before Francis became Pope, and it was in fact a belief I expounded even during the dreadful reign of the zealot Ratzinger. God's Word is a living word, not a fascist regime.
> I find it kind of unsatisfying myself. It just kind of shifts the question to how does the Pope reconcile this with 1 Corinthians 6:9 but it's the Pope's problem now, not Merrin's. Merrin decides the Pope is infallible and will follow his direction instead of his own interpretation.
Again, thoroughly inaccurate, but hopefully you understand my position better now.
Bless you for the discussion, friend.
Father Merrin !u5oFWxmY7U double-posted this 6 years ago, 5 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,061,376
@1,061,316 (M)
> The Pope never said that.
Yes he did, and in fact even the LGBTQ organisations are commending His Holiness for his defence of homosexual people from hatred and bigotry:
https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/pope-compares-politicians-who-rage-against-gays-hitler-n1084821
"We call on the Pope to continue to be a strong, morally just voice in support of all human rights, but especially those of LGBTQ people everywhere," Pett said, "And to challenge injustices perpetrated by government sanctioned violence against LGBTQ people, while also continuing to look inward to the Roman Catholic Church’s teachings and the actions of some of its bishops that discriminate against and harm LGBTQ Catholics and others in this community.”
And then of course we have the incident of Pope Francis assuring a gay man that God made him that way:
“Juan Carlos, that you are gay doesn’t matter,” Cruz said Francis told him, according to Catholic news site Crux. “God made you like this and loves you like this and it doesn’t matter to me. The Pope loves you like this. You have to be happy with who you are.”
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/05/21/pope-francis-gay-man-god-made-you-like-man-juan-carlos/628438002/
> The Pope never said that.
Yes he did, and in fact even the LGBTQ organisations are commending His Holiness for his defence of homosexual people from hatred and bigotry:
https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/pope-compares-politicians-who-rage-against-gays-hitler-n1084821
"We call on the Pope to continue to be a strong, morally just voice in support of all human rights, but especially those of LGBTQ people everywhere," Pett said, "And to challenge injustices perpetrated by government sanctioned violence against LGBTQ people, while also continuing to look inward to the Roman Catholic Church’s teachings and the actions of some of its bishops that discriminate against and harm LGBTQ Catholics and others in this community.”
And then of course we have the incident of Pope Francis assuring a gay man that God made him that way:
“Juan Carlos, that you are gay doesn’t matter,” Cruz said Francis told him, according to Catholic news site Crux. “God made you like this and loves you like this and it doesn’t matter to me. The Pope loves you like this. You have to be happy with who you are.”
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/05/21/pope-francis-gay-man-god-made-you-like-man-juan-carlos/628438002/
Anonymous M replied with this 6 years ago, 2 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,061,394
Anonymous D replied with this 6 years ago, 8 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,061,397
The Cathylcks believe sins can be forgiven on the word of a Preist.
They must want to be in Hell. Because that is how you end up in Hell.
They must want to be in Hell. Because that is how you end up in Hell.