Topic: Official Brexit poll: 1 week from today, will we be saying fair do's Britain, or hard lines Britain?
Anonymous A started this discussion 6 years ago#92,976
Exactly 1 week from now (23:00 GMT, October 31st), Britain is scheduled to leave the EU, as per Prime Minister Johnson's promise. Cast your vote now: will it happen or not?
> Tenant: "I promise to clean my apartment next week" > > Landlord: "As of tomorrow, you have been evicted." > > Fool: "OH MY GOD THE TENANT LIED!!!!! THEY DIDN'T CLEAN THE APARTMENT!!! "
Congratulations, you just won the hilariously self-owning analogy award.
Anonymous C replied with this 6 years ago, 1 minute later, 13 hours after the original post[^][v]#1,053,553
> Victim: I'm going to escape this dungeon next week > > Captor: I've got some unbreakable bonds I'm now going to tie you up in so you can't escape > > Fool: REEEEEEEEEEE THE VICTIM LIED!!!!!!!
"Unbreakable bonds" eh? And to think, Johnson and Farage promised you that leaving the EU would be easy. You must be feeling pretty gullible right around now.
Anonymous A (OP) double-posted this 6 years ago, 1 minute later, 14 hours after the original post[^][v]#1,053,568
> Train driver: I'm going to arrive at the station within twenty minutes > > Terrorist: Using this bomb on the tracks, I am going to derail your train and kill everyone onboard > > Fool: OH MY GOD THE TRAIN DRIVER LIED! HE SAID HE WOULD BE THERE IN 20 MINUTES BUT INSTEAD A TERRORIST DERAILED HIS TRAIN!
And to think, the train driver promised you that the line was completely safe and the weak terrorists held no cards. You must be feeling pretty stupid right about now.
Anonymous C replied with this 6 years ago, 4 minutes later, 14 hours after the original post[^][v]#1,053,572
> If only the Parliament had not betrayed the will of the government and the people, it would have been.
You mean like Boris Johnson and the ERG consistently voting against Theresa May's withdrawal agreement for no other reason than political self-interest, only to then start crying about "delay" tactics and how "Parliament has betrayed the will of the government"?
Also, one minor point: Parliament voting down the government is not a "betrayal". It is called a functioning democracy.
> The EU aren't the terrorists in this analogy.
I never said they were. Interesting that you assumed that though.
Anonymous E joined in and replied with this 6 years ago, 49 seconds later, 14 hours after the original post[^][v]#1,053,574
@1,053,572 (C) > If only the Parliament had not betrayed the will of the government and the people
This is some Daily Mail level of discourse. Come on, don't be a Bert who reduces people to cartoonish, one-dimensional villains.
Parliament is still largely aiming to leave, they're just trying to hold out for a deal. Personally I think that's worth waiting for. Matters are also complicated by how divisive the issue is, so of course it's going to take a long time to figure out.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 6 years ago, 6 minutes later, 15 hours after the original post[^][v]#1,053,576
And I'll say again that "Parliament betrayed the will of the government" is some North Korean level dictatorship bullshit. Maybe Johnson should execute every MP who isn't in the Cabinet, that ought to please Anon C. "Parliament's exercising of democracy is anti-democratic!" These Brexit folk are frighteningly stupid.
(Edited 1 minute later.)
Anonymous C replied with this 6 years ago, 1 hour later, 16 hours after the original post[^][v]#1,053,580
> Parliament is still largely aiming to leave, they're just trying to hold out for a deal
They've already backed a deal. What they're refusing to do is implement it because they want to amend it to force us into a perpetual customs union with the EU.
> "Parliament's exercising of democracy is anti-democratic!"
My Labour MP, of a constituency that overwhelmingly voted Leave, has voted 49 times since then for greater integration with the EU, and has never rebelled against their party on the issue. Which part of that is "democratic"?
More people voted to leave than have ever voted for anything, and Parliament does not want to leave.
Anonymous F joined in and replied with this 6 years ago, 1 hour later, 17 hours after the original post[^][v]#1,053,596
@1,053,573 (A)
That is the same type of behaviour the Liberalcrats have been engaging in towards Trump.
Yet people on this board refuse to acknowledge it.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 6 years ago, 2 days later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#1,054,580
3 more days to go, get your votes in!
Anonymous C replied with this 6 years ago, 6 hours later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#1,054,658
They've already said we aren't doing it? Why are you acting like we still are?
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 6 years ago, 11 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#1,054,661
Parliament passed into law forcing him to asked for a further delay. Why are you saying Mr Johnson should have ignored the law? Don't you respect the rule of law?
Anonymous G replied with this 6 years ago, 4 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#1,054,668
@previous (C)
You missed it huh? Very well, here it is again, this time I'll highlight it for you:
Reporter: "Hello Prime Minister. Can you make a promise today to the British public that you will not ask for a further delay to Brexit?"
Johnson: "Yes. I can. I'd rather be dead in a ditch".
You asked where his lies are. There's one of them. That he was too dumb to realize what would inevitably come next in Parliament despite literally every political commentator predicting it is neither here nor there.
Anonymous F replied with this 6 years ago, 46 seconds later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#1,054,669
@1,054,664 (C)
What could have happened to make it work other than what he did?
Anonymous G replied with this 6 years ago, 1 minute later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#1,054,670
That's like saying "I promise that tomorrow won't rain" is a lie if it does rain. Or are you proposing that a Pm should be psychic?
tteh !MODABUSE replied with this 6 years ago, 1 minute later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#1,054,673
@1,054,664 (C) > Why are you saying Mr Johnson should have ignored the law?
He's not, he's saying Johnson said that he would. In fact, he made a promise to that effect!
Anonymous C replied with this 6 years ago, 56 seconds later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#1,054,674
You can't promise you'll ignore a law before that law became law!
tteh !MODABUSE replied with this 6 years ago, 5 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#1,054,685
@previous (C)
What about all the other times he said he wouldn't ask for an extension? ?
"I will not ask for another delay" and "I will not negotiate a delay" seem rather clear. Both in response to questions regarding the Benn Act, after it passed.
Anonymous G replied with this 6 years ago, 2 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#1,054,686
> That's like saying "I promise that tomorrow won't rain" is a lie if it does rain.
Do I even need to explain why this is an utterly stupid analogy, or will it suffice to say "You're a Brexit voter, what else did anyone expect?"
> Or are you proposing that a Pm should be psychic?
I'm proposing that Prime Ministers shouldn't make promises when they know there is no sound basis for being able to make that promise. Consider this ludicrous exchange:
President: "I promise there will not be any hurricanes this year!"
(hurricane happens)
President: "What, you expect me to be psychic?"
No, we expect you to base your statements on practical and responsible information rather than rabble-rousing populist demagoguery.
Anonymous G double-posted this 6 years ago, 1 minute later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#1,054,687
> If you actually look what he did, he sent a letter to them under his name telling them that he did not want another extension.
After having already sent a letter requesting an extention. Which he promised he wouldn't do. Please try and keep up.
> I'll ask again, why do you want Mr Johnson to ignore the law?
Where have I suggested I want him to ignore the law?
tteh !MODABUSE replied with this 6 years ago, 2 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#1,054,688
June 25: "We are getting ready to come out on October 31. Come what may. Do or die."
September 2: "There are no circumstances in which I will ask Brussels to delay. We are leaving on 31 October, no ifs or buts."
September 3: "We will leave by 31 October in all circumstances. There will be no further pointless delay."
September 4: "The PM has been clear that he will not go to Brussels to ask for an extension."
September 5: "[Delay?] I'd rather be dead in a ditch."
September 6: [Asked if he'll carry out Parliament's instructions to delay] "I will not. I don't want a delay."
September 6: "[MPs] just passed a law that would force me to beg Brussels for an extension to the Brexit deadline. This is something I will never do."
September 9: "I will not ask for another delay."
September 10: [Treasury minister Simon Clarke, speaking on government's behalf]: "The government is very clear that we will not under any circumstances be asking for an extension and that is the absolute bottom line."
September 16: "We're going to come out on October 31 and it's vital that people understand that the UK will not extend. We won't go on remaining in the EU beyond October."
September 25: "We will come out of the European Union on 31 October, and we will not be extending."
Anonymous H joined in and replied with this 6 years ago, 4 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#1,054,693
@1,054,685 (tteh !MODABUSE) > "I will not ask for another delay" and "I will not negotiate a delay" seem rather clear. Both in response to questions regarding the Benn Act, after it passed.
He didn't ask for a delay and he didn't negotiate one, he just sent a mindless document and then laid out his true feelings in a separate letter. Thats not the same as a proper request.
(Edited 1 minute later.)
Anonymous H double-posted this 6 years ago, 2 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#1,054,694
@1,054,668 (G) @1,054,673 (tteh !MODABUSE)
Not a promise. Saying you won't do X but then the circumstances changing means X isn't a lie. He couldn't have kept that promise even if he wanted.
tteh !MODABUSE replied with this 6 years ago, 1 minute later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#1,054,695
September 6: "[MPs] just passed a law that would force me to beg Brussels for an extension to the Brexit deadline. This is something I will never do."
Anonymous H replied with this 6 years ago, 2 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#1,054,698
@previous (tteh !MODABUSE)
It's different if someone is explicitly asking if you are make a promise. He said all manner of shit but when he realized he had to do what he did, he did. Respecting current circumstances doesn't make that a lie.
tteh !MODABUSE replied with this 6 years ago, 27 seconds later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#1,054,699
Reporter: "Hello Prime Minister. Can you make a promise today to the British public that you will not ask for a further delay to Brexit?"
Johnson: "Yes. I can. I'd rather be dead in a ditch".
> He couldn't have kept that promise even if he wanted.
Wait, so it was a promise now?
Amd you're correct, he couldn't have kept that promise. As practically every commentator pointed out at the time when it was blindingly obvious what Parliament (including members of his own party) would do. Hence, he is a professional bullshitter who panders to low-information and uncritical simpletons.
Anonymous G double-posted this 6 years ago, 1 minute later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#1,054,701
> It's different if someone is explicitly asking if you are make a promise. He said all manner of shit but when he realized he had to do what he did, he did. Respecting current circumstances doesn't make that a lie.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Brexit voters are frighteningly stupid people.
Anonymous H replied with this 6 years ago, 6 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#1,054,702
@1,054,700 (G)
He made that promise before the ben act passed didn't he? It was a promise based on the act passing or not passing.
Anonymous H double-posted this 6 years ago, 1 minute later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#1,054,703
@1,054,699 (tteh !MODABUSE) @1,054,701 (G)
Nice ad hominems when you can't counter my point. His statements were only promise before the Benn act, after that he just said a bunch of bollocks and then had to go back on it because the circumstances made him. He never explicitly said "I am promise2 after the act passed.
Anonymous H triple-posted this 6 years ago, 3 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#1,054,704
never mind
jodi !ariasXXmaE joined in and replied with this 6 years ago, 4 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#1,054,705
> Nice ad hominems when you can't counter my point. His statements were only promise before the Benn act, after that he just said a bunch of bollocks and then had to go back on it because the circumstances made him. He never explicitly said "I am promise2 after the act passed.
This is an interesting post because we can pinpoint the exact moment your brain began to fully shut down.
tteh !MODABUSE replied with this 6 years ago, 8 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#1,054,711
@1,054,703 (H)
Your first sentence was OK. The rest... what?