Minichan

> When the Christian apologist Ray Comfort attempted to disprove evolution with just his limited knowledge of bananas he instantly became an international laughingstock. When the flaws in his claim were made publicly known Ray did what he does best, he made up more lies about bananas. Join us in this three part story which starts off with Ray Comfort's well known original banana lie, followed by his banana lie diversion, and concludes with his latest collection banana lies used to cover up his original banana lie. You may notice a theme.


Its like reading about DM! Brb, reading whole article.

@160,320 (Ks !KansasxqvM)
It's a fun site.

@160,321 (C)
What?

scienceblogs.com/pharyngula

Ray Comfort and his boytoy Kirk Cameron issued a free copy of Origin of the Species with a mostly plagiarized forward about Nazis and Darwin being a racist. It was hilarious.

@previous (!JuMPb0dbaE)
I had heard about that on Irreligiosophy, but I haven't read it yet. Thanks Jump.

(Edited 12 seconds later.)

this guy is pretty funny, I'm not sure how related it is.

@160,402 (swamplights !!V3J448+/B)
The blog or the story? Pharyngula is a great blog. It turned into a feminist rag for a short time because atheist and skeptic females can't understand the difference between sexism and social awkwardness, but 99% of it is good.

@previous (!JuMPb0dbaE)
I hadn't read the blog or their redone Origin of species. Can you explain the feminist thing further please?

The only thing I know of is 'The Atheist Experience' which is based in Texas and they do a live show every week. You can find their videos on youtube and there's a link from there to their website.

@160,563 (swamplights !!V3J448+/B)
It's way too involved to explain in a post. It's partially valid complaints mixed in with a lot of reaching for sexism.

Im not a woman, maybe it's all justified and I'm too privileged to notice, but I'm pretty sensitive to sexism. I think a lot of it is reaching.

@160,571 (!JuMPb0dbaE)
Oh, I just realized what you were referencing. That Skeptachick speak got mad because someone asked her out on an elevator. She spoke and publicly about it later, and Dawkins told her to quit whining. People then freaked out.

This is an interesting account of growing up under Fred Phelps.

http://www.blank.org/addict/

Strange and angry atheist site.

http://godlessbastard.com/01.html

Website for ex members of the Children of God cult.

www.xfamily.org

@160,770 (swamplights !!V3J448+/B)
How do you feel about that? I agreed with her.

@previous (H)
Well, I can understand why she was creeped out, but I don't think that the man did anything offensive.

(Edited 11 seconds later.)

@161,145 (swamplights !!V3J448+/B)
nside the "Heavenly Elite": The Children of God Today

by Dalva Lynch, with Paul Carden
(from the Christian Research Journal, Summer 1990, page 16. The Editor-in-Chief of the Christian Research Journal is Elliot Miller.)

The international cult known as the Children of God (COG), the Family of Love, or Heaven's Magic has become famous for its radical rejection of conventional social values while maintaining a "Christian" facade. Founded by "Moses" David Berg in the late 1960s as a deviant segment of the "Jesus People" movement, the group gradually sank into paranoid secrecy and nearly every known form of sexual excess. Despite receiving heavy publicity in years past, outside observers know little about the cult's present inner workings. The group's most sensitive literature and videos are hidden from the public and even from their external members; COG disciples keep a "fleebag" ready at all times in case their homes are raided by local authorities.
Though inside news of the COG has been lacking, the cult is far from dead. Recent internal statistics put total membership at nearly 13,000 worldwide.[1]
Dalva Lynch spent some 15 years in the Children of God. She was a drug addict working as a free lance journalist in Rio de Janeiro when she joined in 1974. At one time she was a top leader in the Brazilian COG and worked for three years as a translator for World Services, the group's elite administrative branch. She married Robert Dennis Lynch in 1976, and for a time they served together at the top of the cult's leadership in Brazil -- later travelling to Egypt and the U.S., where she worked again as a World Services translator for a year. In December 1985 Dalva was thrown out of her own home in Dallas, Texas by local COG leaders who sent her, alone, to Brazil; she has not seen her children since. (Their father is presumed to be in the cult's leadership in either Japan or the Philippines.) In Brazil she rejoined the group and was made to marry a male companion, by whom she had two more children before being expelled for the last time in July 1988.
Dalva offers us a rare glimpse into the COG's shadowy world. David Berg's eldest daughter, Deborah Davis, left the cult in 1978; not since her explosive 1984 book[2] has anyone detailed the inner workings of this cult...and the consequences of Moses David's perverted teachings on the lives of his followers.
The most dramatic controversy surrounding the group concerns its sexual dimension, from "sharing" oneself sexually with others in the group to open marriage and polygamy, from "Flirty Fishing" (or FFing) -- proselytizing and fund raising through prostitution -- to sexual activities among children and between children and adults. Despite belated attempts by some in the group's leadership to arrest the downward slide, the damage has been done. The COG is raising the next generation of members -- the offspring born in the cult -- and is apparently reaping the whirlwind because of its libertinism.
Much of what follows is shocking, sometimes painful reading. Our purpose in printing this material, however, is not to shock or sensationalize, but to expose the current situation in a pseudo-Christian cult that depends heavily on evangelical Christians for its sustenance. According to Dalva, the cult's missionaries are being supported financially by unsuspecting evangelicals in the United States and elsewhere, mocking the Word of God and destroying lives in the name of Jesus -- with church backing.
Because of the seriousness of her allegations, the JOURNAL has sought either documentation or independent confirmation of the events and doctrines she describes here. At one time, Dalva had all of the evidence in her possession, but when she and her companion left the COG they were frisked carefully and relieved of any literature considered a "breach of security." Some of the internal literature she cites is difficult, if not impossible, to obtain. Bear in mind also that the situation inside the cult is constantly changing, and that its perversions vary somewhat in degree from region to region.
The following is adapted from a manuscript, "A Elite Celestial" (The Heavenly Elite), which Dalva wrote for the Brazilian police and press in 1989, and which Paul Carden -- CRI's International Coordinator -- translated from the Portuguese.
For its friends and sympathizers, the COG is a paradise where righteousness, freedom, love, and peace become reality -- with beautiful, smiling children; young and handsome adults; and sumptuous, well-appointed mansions. But it was only through "white lies" and cruelty that Moses David and his disciples managed to build their Shangri-la. Its external members are oblivious to what goes on inside, and they promise their unconditional support and protection in the belief that their tithes are helping a marvelous organization. They don't know that the children's smiles hide a life of sex, prohibitions, and falsehoods; that vaccinations are forbidden; that they frequently spend months at a time confined to their lovely mansions due to epidemics of whooping cough, rubella, and mumps; and that they rarely have a mother and father who live together.
My children are still there on the inside. My oldest boy is now twelve, the next is eleven, and my girl recently turned seven. In the photographs, they are handsome, smiling, and gracious. But the photos say nothing about the sex sessions, the lies, the frustrations, the injustices.
Some COG disciples have kept quiet for fear of losing their children, as I did; others, for fear of losing a husband or wife; still others, for fear of losing their position or their support. There are also those who, believing that the Children of God are truly the Heavenly Elite, are afraid of being cast out of Jesus Christ's own inner circle and from the company of the saints -- and therefore subject themselves to every sort of barbarity in order to belong.
In describing the cult's incredible beliefs and perversions, I am actually describing a part of my own life, for I myself participated in such aberrations and practiced many of the abominations I now condemn: I broke up families through adultery, lied "in the name of God," and practiced "FFing." By the grace of God, I lacked the nerve to practice incest and homosexuality -- but of the rest I am as guilty as any of the others.
I write, therefore, not out of self-righteousness, but as one of the guilty who seeks to somehow make things right and avoid even greater harm being done by omission.
My purpose here is simply to show the real facts of life in the cult -- all of them carefully hidden and vehemently denied before the public -- and the impact of Moses David's theories on the day-to-day lives of his followers.
THE TREE AND ITS FRUIT
The guitars ring out happily as the young, smiling musicians play songs so the others can dance. Most of them are young, too, and a bit inhibited.
The music builds, faster and faster, in a rock rhythm. The blood begins to warm up, and inhibitions begin to fade. "Free, eternally free, every day, free, free through Jesus!" they sing in unison, more and more strongly.
Inhibitions finally evaporate as the loud, rhythmic singing continues. One girl starts to take off her blouse. Another follows suit. Everyone dances, their arms raised as they shout, "Hallelujah, Jesus, we're free!" As their clothing falls to the ground they begin caressing each other's bodies.
And so, this special night of the new disciples' "Basic Course" at the "Babe's Ranch" ends in success. Couples and threesomes lie on the ground, or divide themselves among the rooms, in fulfillment of the law of God to "love one another" (John 15:12) and begin at last to be "like the angels of God in heaven," who "neither marry, nor are given in marriage" (Matt. 22:30). They have finally reached the "glorious liberty of the children of God" (Rom. 8:21) and can now be truly considered...Children of God.
Perversion
What characterizes the COG? Sex.
From earliest infancy, the cult's children are taught the basic principle of sexual freedom. Children are encouraged to stimulate each other sexually and to take part in sexual acts with adults. In the past Moses David has vehemently denied that incest is practiced among them on the pretext that, legally, the word requires actual penetration (which is not permitted in the Children of God, since this could hurt the little girls). But everything else is permitted, and the fathers are free to lie with their little daughters to "play," and the mothers to maintain sexual relations with their little boys.
This kind of perversion permeates COG literature. One of Moses David's recent children's books -- Heaven's Children[3] -- depicts him making love with his "wife" Maria and his stepdaughter Techi in the same bed. (We also have the testimony of his eldest daughter, Deborah, who wrote of his advances toward her, and of his incestuous relationship with another daughter, Faithy.[4])
The COG also published a book, The Story of Davidito,[5] which features photographs and descriptions of Moses David's stepson, Davidito (then three-and-a-half), engaging in a variety of sexual acts with little girls and adult women. It is noteworthy that the "education" given this boy is offered as an example to all the members of the group.
I know these things by grim experience. In my own home, all the upbringing I gave to my children was cut off when the new leadership arrived. "They're not yours anymore, honey," my Shepherdess told me.
My little ones were introduced to the "delights of sex." At our COG home in Dallas, the bedroom where my husband and I had slept was vacated and turned into a children's dormitory. At night, under the supervision of an obliging adult, the children between three and ten years old said their prayers and were separated into their beds by pairs -- to make love before going to sleep.
Once I found my oldest son all alone, crying. "The girls don't want to make love to me," he sobbed. I started to talk to him, but the Shepherdess brusquely swept me aside, knelt beside him, and explained: "You have to be more aggressive, David, and take the initiative! Then they'll like it and want to make love with you!" My poor seven-year-old -- so shy and withdrawn.
I pity the poor parents who dare to rebel against these practices, because rebellion against the group's thinking, or against the leadership's decisions, is considered a dangerous act of treason -- and is severely punished.
The consequences of such practices have been disastrous. Because one third of the COG's second generation is now between 12 and 18 years of age, promiscuity has become rampant, along with the problems which obviously follow. That is why they have created the "Teen Ranches" -- which are, in truth, simply centers for psychological recovery and indoctrination.
Another tragic consequence of total permissiveness, and of idolizing physical beauty, is the rejection of the girls who are less-endowed, fat, or ugly. Despised by the boys and taunted by their girlfriends, they become so shy and withdrawn that the adults accuse them of harboring evil spirits and punish them severely.
Girls are taught from the time they are little to submit to anyone who imposes himself on them sexually, to dress and behave provocatively, and are instructed in all the techniques of how to satisfy a man. (I am speaking here of little children between the ages of three and twelve years old, not of women or teenagers.) The little girls are encouraged to dress and act "sexy." From the time they are small they perform strip-teases and dance nude for the men, receiving applause, whistles, caresses, and kisses. They are also invited to sit on the men's laps and "play" with them.
Two or three nights a week, in homes with many children between eight and eighteen, there is "sharing time" -- that is, the leaders organize who will have sex with whom, just as it is among the adults. Moses David tried to eliminate this practice for children of reproductive age due to the danger of early pregnancies,[6] but without success: the snowball grew as it rolled down the mountain, and the only means they found to get around the problem was to marry these kids legally in order to avoid problems with the authorities in the worldly "System."[7]
The situation became so serious that at one point almost all nonmoneymaking activities were halted so they could dedicate themselves full time to reeducating their young people, who were so engrossed in sex that they had lost any notion of reality.
New literature was prepared exclusively for the indoctrination of this second generation raised in the "Family," and thoroughly saturated with its practices. Intensive teen recovery courses were given, the so-called "Teens' Training Camps," or TTCs, during which the young people answered extensive questionnaires that revealed weak points in their education and indoctrination.
The girls responded almost unanimously that their greatest trauma was that of sexual sessions with their own fathers, or with other older male members, who physically imposed themselves on the girls with threats that if they refused they would be considered rebellious. Pressured by their fathers, by their Shepherds, or by other influential members, these poor little girls (many of them between five and ten years old) submitted themselves to various kinds of sexual relations, including group sex, for fear of being punished and reprimanded -- or at least ostracized. Only after these questionnaires was sex with the children discouraged, though not forbidden outright.
Nevertheless, nearly all the educational literature for children and young people is still sexually oriented. (Heaven's Girl, for example, is about the adventures of a teenage girl with supernatural powers, and of her FFing [i.e., sexual] conquests and adventures.) In fact, a large section of one of the books most read to children tells of the adventures of "Grandpa" (Moses David) in heaven and in the spirit world, parts of which are little more than breathless descriptions of his sexual activities with deceased girls from the group.[8]
Maria, Moses David's consort and the group's de facto leader,[9] is quite concerned about the children's educational situation, and it was thanks to her that certain sexual excesses practiced among the little ones were cut off. Maria encouraged the formation of schools and homes specializing in child care, and was the "brains" behind both the recovery centers for teenagers and the prohibition against unrestrained sex with outsiders.
After a virtual epidemic of incurable herpes, various homes for herpes carriers were founded so the illness wouldn't spread any further. The use of condoms -- forbidden as a means of birth control -- was permitted, and FFing was brought under greater control. With the advent of AIDS, sex was further restricted to internal members, with the important exception of "fishing" for influential men and women. The use of condoms eventually became mandatory, as did AIDS testing for all internal members every six months.

@160,770 (swamplights !!V3J448+/B)
No. That's just the latest thing. It's not even all that out there on it's own, but looking at the pattern, I wouldn't be surprised if it was completely made up -- I don't think it was, but it's timing seems suspicious.

@previous (!JuMPb0dbaE)
She seemed to make a pretty big deal about getting hit on. The guy wasn't even acting that creepy.

@previous (swamplights !!V3J448+/B)
It sounds like the guy asking her back to his room just had a monumentally bad sense of timing. I'm guessing he was waiting to get a moment alone to make a pass at her, and a hurried invitation in the elevator was the one chance he got. I can see her feeling a bit cornered by the whole thing.

Dawkins basically said, "Yeah, men make passes at women all the time. This isn't anything special." 10/10 for calling it like he sees it, but not the most understanding thing to say if she was genuinely feeling creeped out.

Yea. The one was saying that a really hot chick was pretty. It was a relevant cute joke, that to be taken out of context. The speaker was bullied into apologising. Atheists dont want to come off as sexist and they all want to show how much more accepting they are than others (bloggers).

It's really annoying.

Then again, these aren't attractive women. They likely aren't use to the attention.

@previous (jump)
Did you have to insult their appearance?

@161,384 (I)
If I found someone to be creepy, but I could tell that it wasn't on purpose, I wouldn't turn it into a big issue.

@previous (swamplights !!V3J448+/B)
bloggers gonna blog

@previous (I)
That man must feel so awkward now.

@previous (swamplights !!V3J448+/B)
I imagine the guy who made a pass at her is trying to forget the whole thing ever happened.

@previous (I)
I know. Her calling him out public almost seems intentionally cruel.

@161,396 (swamplights !!V3J448+/B)
No. I didn't mean that as an insult. I meant that merely as an observation. I didn't say they were ugly.

They get put into a situation where they are alpha females because they are the only women. So, basing it on the rest of their lives, the men probably come off as a lot worse because they aren't use to the attention.

@161,425 (I)
@161,437 (swamplights !!V3J448+/B)
He was likely a fan, who saw his chance of introducing himself and making a pass slipping by and panicked. He was also drunk. He might not remember.

She should have told him. Hes the only one it is relevant to.

She's probably used to venting on her blog and using it as a forum to speak her mind. I can see her intending it to be a "Men of the world: This is creepy. Please don't do this." piece for her usual audience. The whole resulting kerfluffle and name calling between her and Dawkins has just been blown way out of any reasonable proportion.

(Edited 26 seconds later.)

@previous (I)
Definitely. He really shot himself in the foot with this debacle.

@161,477 (I)
@previous (swamplights !!V3J448+/B)
Nope. It was the latest in a series of such things. She was doing it for that reason.

Dawkins is fine.

@previous (jump)
Explain further please.