Topic: Could somebody (who is preferably Muslim)
Anonymous A started this discussion 6 years ago #90,048
please explain to me why it isn't OK, or even natural, to be just a bit Islamophobic due to the fact that when this and other similar events happened, the murderers were screaming "Allahu akbar"?To me, saying "not all Muslims are bloodthirsty jihadists, therefore we shouldn't fear them" is kind of the same argument as "not all pedophiles molest children, therefore we shouldn't mistrust them".
Note: this is not a troll post - I genuinely would like to hear a coherent, well-reasoned argument.
Autist !StaYqkzUPc joined in and replied with this 6 years ago, 1 minute later[^] [v] #1,026,499
You can criticise the religion a you want, just don't target specific people or insult the people following the religion.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 6 years ago, 18 minutes later, 20 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,026,510
@previous (Autist !StaYqkzUPc)
It's also not OK to criticise the religion. There are better examples, but the only one I can think of right now is Lauren Southern being banned from entering the UK (for life) for holding up a sign that said "Mohamed was gay". Maybe she was being a stupid little troll, but it hardly warrants permanent banishment from the country. Also, if the sign had said "Jesus was gay" I'm quite certain nobody would have batted an eyelid.
It's also not OK to criticise the religion. There are better examples, but the only one I can think of right now is Lauren Southern being banned from entering the UK (for life) for holding up a sign that said "Mohamed was gay". Maybe she was being a stupid little troll, but it hardly warrants permanent banishment from the country. Also, if the sign had said "Jesus was gay" I'm quite certain nobody would have batted an eyelid.
Ananthanarayanan M R joined in and replied with this 6 years ago, 11 minutes later, 31 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,026,512
tteh !MemesToDNA joined in and replied with this 6 years ago, 5 minutes later, 37 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,026,515
@1,026,510 (A)
That wasn't the reason she was barred entry. Also it was Allah, not Muhammad. People have been arrested for "inciting hatred" for mocking Christianity. Blasphemy and "blasphemous libel" (while rarely prosecuted) were criminal offences up until 2008.
Either way, I don't like how quickly we bar people's entry.
That wasn't the reason she was barred entry. Also it was Allah, not Muhammad. People have been arrested for "inciting hatred" for mocking Christianity. Blasphemy and "blasphemous libel" (while rarely prosecuted) were criminal offences up until 2008.
Either way, I don't like how quickly we bar people's entry.
(Edited 5 minutes later.)
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 6 years ago, 5 minutes later, 42 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,026,519
@previous (tteh !MemesToDNA)
> That wasn't the reason she was barred entry.
Oh, what was the reason?
> That wasn't the reason she was barred entry.
Oh, what was the reason?
Anonymous E joined in and replied with this 6 years ago, 3 minutes later, 46 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,026,520
tteh !MemesToDNA replied with this 6 years ago, 3 minutes later, 49 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,026,521
@1,026,519 (A)
Same reason we usually keep other far-right, white supremacist pieces of shit out: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-43393035 Maybe the "Allah is gay" incident helped bring attention to her, but the UK has banned entry to plenty of others, including Muslamic extremists.
She should respect the UK's borders and stay in America, where she belongs. :^)
Same reason we usually keep other far-right, white supremacist pieces of shit out: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-43393035 Maybe the "Allah is gay" incident helped bring attention to her, but the UK has banned entry to plenty of others, including Muslamic extremists.
She should respect the UK's borders and stay in America, where she belongs. :^)
(Edited 17 seconds later.)
Anonymous E replied with this 6 years ago, 5 minutes later, 55 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,026,525
Uh oh, the Democratic Socialists of Minichan are editing pictures again...Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 6 years ago, 5 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,026,528
@1,026,515 (tteh !MemesToDNA)
That was the same page I landed on... but it kind of confirmed what I said (except, yes, Allah not Mohamed) - she was barred entry because Border Force claimed her actions "present a threat to the fundamental interests of society". Again, I'm not sure how this counts as being racist or white supremacist, since Islam isn't a race, but I'll have to assume they knew something more about her case that they haven't shared with the media.
> stay in America, where she belongs
Well, she's Canadian but I suppose that's part of North America, so I'll let it slide.
@1,026,520 (E)
This is the other double standard I don't quite understand - why is it OK to hate gay people as long as you are Muslim? But that's a whole other topic.
That was the same page I landed on... but it kind of confirmed what I said (except, yes, Allah not Mohamed) - she was barred entry because Border Force claimed her actions "present a threat to the fundamental interests of society". Again, I'm not sure how this counts as being racist or white supremacist, since Islam isn't a race, but I'll have to assume they knew something more about her case that they haven't shared with the media.
> stay in America, where she belongs
Well, she's Canadian but I suppose that's part of North America, so I'll let it slide.
@1,026,520 (E)
This is the other double standard I don't quite understand - why is it OK to hate gay people as long as you are Muslim? But that's a whole other topic.
Anonymous F joined in and replied with this 6 years ago, 6 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,026,532
Because to make conclusions on an entire group, based only on a part of that group, is a logical fallacy called "Hasty Generalization".
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 6 years ago, 10 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,026,537
@previous (F)
> Because to make conclusions on an entire group, based only on a part of that group, is a logical fallacy called "Hasty Generalization".
Right, this is more like it. How is the "no true Scotsman" fallacy I mentioned more valid? Is killing non-believers really prescribed by the religion, and if so should it be taken literally?
> Because to make conclusions on an entire group, based only on a part of that group, is a logical fallacy called "Hasty Generalization".
Right, this is more like it. How is the "no true Scotsman" fallacy I mentioned more valid? Is killing non-believers really prescribed by the religion, and if so should it be taken literally?
tteh !MemesToDNA replied with this 6 years ago, 11 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,026,540
@1,026,528 (A)
> Again, I'm not sure how this counts as being racist or white supremacist, since Islam isn't a race
But you're acting as if she's only ever discussed Islam. It's everything else that makes her unwelcome. She's a retard who believes in White Genocide™ and tried to block a search-and-rescue vessel FFS. She should stay in Canada and stick to Jordan Peterson events, which is about her intellectual level.
It's a privilege to visit the UK, and I'm happy our government keeps borderline Neo-Nazis away. Nobody who reads through her Wiki page and thinks "this is fine" should be welcome here, tbh.
They should stay in their own countries and not invade ours. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
> Again, I'm not sure how this counts as being racist or white supremacist, since Islam isn't a race
But you're acting as if she's only ever discussed Islam. It's everything else that makes her unwelcome. She's a retard who believes in White Genocide™ and tried to block a search-and-rescue vessel FFS. She should stay in Canada and stick to Jordan Peterson events, which is about her intellectual level.
It's a privilege to visit the UK, and I'm happy our government keeps borderline Neo-Nazis away. Nobody who reads through her Wiki page and thinks "this is fine" should be welcome here, tbh.
They should stay in their own countries and not invade ours. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
(Edited 21 seconds later.)
tteh !MemesToDNA double-posted this 6 years ago, 5 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,026,541
Like, if you want a truly stupid UK entry ban, consider Geert Wilders. He's a bit of a twat (meer of minder Marokkanen...) but he was banned solely for his anti-Islam comments, before his ban was overturned. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geert_Wilders#In_the_United_Kingdom
Anonymous G joined in and replied with this 6 years ago, 15 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,026,547
Anonymous H joined in and replied with this 6 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,026,549
@OP LMFAO Muslims WANT us to hate them you fucking dumbass.
Anonymous I joined in and replied with this 6 years ago, 3 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,026,550
tteh !MemesToDNA replied with this 6 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,026,552
@previous (I)
> Moslems
> mohammad
> wont
I love you people.
How're things, bert?
> Moslems
> mohammad
> wont
I love you people.
How're things, bert?
(Edited 13 seconds later.)
vocalon joined in and replied with this 6 years ago, 20 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,026,553
tteh !MemesToDNA replied with this 6 years ago, 42 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,026,554
terri !RwordOooFE joined in and replied with this 6 years ago, 11 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,026,559
> To me, saying "not all Muslims are bloodthirsty jihadists, therefore we shouldn't fear them" is kind of the same argument as "not all pedophiles molest children, therefore we shouldn't mistrust them".
this seems like a personal problem
this seems like a personal problem
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 6 years ago, 1 hour later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,026,582
@1,026,549 (H)
> LMFAO Muslims WANT us to hate them you fucking dumbass.
OK, they want us to hate them. Seems like a very strange thing to want, so why am I a "fucking dumbass" for asking why?
@1,026,540 (tteh !MemesToDNA)
> But you're acting as if she's only ever discussed Islam. It's everything else that makes her unwelcome.
What exactly though? I can't find anything else she did that would cause her to be banned. I admit perhaps I don't have access to ALL the evidence though.
> She's a retard who believes in White Genocide™
Are you saying that because she went to South Africa and interviewed white farmers whose families had been systematically slaughtered over the last several years? I also wouldn't call it genocide, but it's not like that's not happening at all. It's been going on for decades, but nobody ever really talks about it.
> and tried to block a search-and-rescue vessel FFS.
I think you'll find if you look further into the story that making people believe it was a search-and-rescue vessel was part of the scam... but we're kind of digressing from the main topic here.
> It's a privilege to visit the UK, and I'm happy our government keeps borderline Neo-Nazis away.
I agree with you. I just think (like me) you're not in possession of all the facts about LS, and it's very easy to make assumptions either way.
> They should stay in their own countries and not invade ours. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
lol
> LMFAO Muslims WANT us to hate them you fucking dumbass.
OK, they want us to hate them. Seems like a very strange thing to want, so why am I a "fucking dumbass" for asking why?
@1,026,540 (tteh !MemesToDNA)
> But you're acting as if she's only ever discussed Islam. It's everything else that makes her unwelcome.
What exactly though? I can't find anything else she did that would cause her to be banned. I admit perhaps I don't have access to ALL the evidence though.
> She's a retard who believes in White Genocide™
Are you saying that because she went to South Africa and interviewed white farmers whose families had been systematically slaughtered over the last several years? I also wouldn't call it genocide, but it's not like that's not happening at all. It's been going on for decades, but nobody ever really talks about it.
> and tried to block a search-and-rescue vessel FFS.
I think you'll find if you look further into the story that making people believe it was a search-and-rescue vessel was part of the scam... but we're kind of digressing from the main topic here.
> It's a privilege to visit the UK, and I'm happy our government keeps borderline Neo-Nazis away.
I agree with you. I just think (like me) you're not in possession of all the facts about LS, and it's very easy to make assumptions either way.
> They should stay in their own countries and not invade ours. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
lol
Anonymous A (OP) double-posted this 6 years ago, 5 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,026,583
@1,026,547 (G)
> Killing non-Muslims is not a part of mainstream Islam.
This is what I thought, thank you. Why doesn't mainstream Islam condemn it when it happens? Why do they not make it part of sharia or at least issue fatwas against the perpetrators?
> Killing non-Muslims is not a part of mainstream Islam.
This is what I thought, thank you. Why doesn't mainstream Islam condemn it when it happens? Why do they not make it part of sharia or at least issue fatwas against the perpetrators?
vocalon replied with this 6 years ago, 6 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,026,587
@previous (A)
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/23/uk-muslim-leaders-condemn-cowardly-london-attack
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/muslims-manchester-campaign-raises-over-13113670
> loaded questions
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/23/uk-muslim-leaders-condemn-cowardly-london-attack
The Muslim Council of Britain, which condemned the attack and offered prayers for the victims on Wednesday, issued a further statement on Thursday praising the Met police, the prime minister and the mayor of London.
The group’s general secretary, Harun Khan, said: “This attack was cowardly and depraved. There is no justification for this act whatsoever. The best response to this outrage is to make sure we come together in solidarity and not allow the terrorists to divide us. I hope my Muslim brothers and sisters will reach out to fellow Londoners and Britons in solidarity to demonstrate that such hatred will not defeat our way of life.”
The group’s general secretary, Harun Khan, said: “This attack was cowardly and depraved. There is no justification for this act whatsoever. The best response to this outrage is to make sure we come together in solidarity and not allow the terrorists to divide us. I hope my Muslim brothers and sisters will reach out to fellow Londoners and Britons in solidarity to demonstrate that such hatred will not defeat our way of life.”
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/muslims-manchester-campaign-raises-over-13113670
A Stockport charity has raised over £26,000 for the victims of the terror attack with its ‘Muslims for Manchester ’ campaign.
Human Appeal, a Muslim-faith based humanitarian charity headquartered in Cheadle , launched the campaign following the bombing at the Ariana Grande concert at Manchester Arena.
Chief executive Othman Moqbel said: “We are proud that our Muslims for Manchester appeal has raised so much in such a short time. It only reflects what I have been told over and over again in the last 24 hours. Our community have been devastated by the vile attack, and people want to come together in support of the victims and their families. Manchester’s Muslim community stands shoulder to shoulder with everyone in the city. All funds raised will go directly to supporting the victims and their families. We hope many more Muslims and non-Muslims will donate. Once again my prayers and love go to the victims, their families and this great city.”
Human Appeal, a Muslim-faith based humanitarian charity headquartered in Cheadle , launched the campaign following the bombing at the Ariana Grande concert at Manchester Arena.
Chief executive Othman Moqbel said: “We are proud that our Muslims for Manchester appeal has raised so much in such a short time. It only reflects what I have been told over and over again in the last 24 hours. Our community have been devastated by the vile attack, and people want to come together in support of the victims and their families. Manchester’s Muslim community stands shoulder to shoulder with everyone in the city. All funds raised will go directly to supporting the victims and their families. We hope many more Muslims and non-Muslims will donate. Once again my prayers and love go to the victims, their families and this great city.”
> loaded questions
Autist !StaYqkzUPc replied with this 6 years ago, 17 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,026,594
vocalon replied with this 6 years ago, 1 minute later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,026,596
@previous (Autist !StaYqkzUPc)
the daily mail must be fucked if the guardian is liberal relative to it
the daily mail must be fucked if the guardian is liberal relative to it
Autist !StaYqkzUPc replied with this 6 years ago, 4 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,026,597
@previous (vocalon)
Please post from an unbiased news source next time such as Breitbart or Russia Today.
Please post from an unbiased news source next time such as Breitbart or Russia Today.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 6 years ago, 23 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,026,607
@1,026,587 (vocalon)
> > loaded questions
I assure you I have no intention of trying to trap anybody or to troll. I am aware these questions are divisive but I'm asking them because it's always difficult to find satisfactory answers, and this place is as good as any to try and search.
Thanks for linking those articles though. I don't trust the Guardian in the slightest (not least because it employs first class twats like Owen Jones as columnists) but the local Manchester paper is more credible.
> > loaded questions
I assure you I have no intention of trying to trap anybody or to troll. I am aware these questions are divisive but I'm asking them because it's always difficult to find satisfactory answers, and this place is as good as any to try and search.
Thanks for linking those articles though. I don't trust the Guardian in the slightest (not least because it employs first class twats like Owen Jones as columnists) but the local Manchester paper is more credible.
vocalon replied with this 6 years ago, 4 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,026,609
@previous (A)
i stole the sources from this video, he does a really solid job at deconstructing the question using some examples from like. 2017
i stole the sources from this video, he does a really solid job at deconstructing the question using some examples from like. 2017
Ananthanarayanan M R replied with this 6 years ago, 8 hours later, 12 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,026,726
Shanitra replied with this 6 years ago, 5 hours later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,026,759
Ananthanarayanan M R replied with this 6 years ago, 1 hour later, 19 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,026,791
Syntax joined in and replied with this 6 years ago, 25 minutes later, 20 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,026,796
OP nice of you to steal the same photo of WTC I stole
That event is the Example I use to prove the power of prayer or belief in God is pure bunk - Prayer is of no value - Proof is that Millions of people tuned in to the live TV event after the 1st tower was hit by the 1st plane and as they watched the 2nd plane zeroing in on tower #4 they prayed to God Millions Prayed to God and value of such prayer made Nada Zero Zilch of a difference
Now a few other people will argue that the Prayers to Allah were effective because the Muslims driving that plane got Allah to help them navigate accurately
Anyway OP the company I consult for and used to work as employee - They Employ a HUGE and I mean a HUGE number of Muslims and this is because as Engineers they were well trained in countries of origin and came to US top Universities for MS and PhD degrees and ended up with H1B Visas and I have yet to meet a single one that is anything but peaceful -
The only personal issue I have had and it's been more than a few times is the number of Engineers/Muslims that ask me to introduce them to my dancing partners and I DON'T because these guys are Married - Of course not one has argued that it's OK because they are allowed to have more than one wife - I have run into such people at University including the WIFE of a Muslim who insisted that she was NOT about to be the Husbands only Wife
That event is the Example I use to prove the power of prayer or belief in God is pure bunk - Prayer is of no value - Proof is that Millions of people tuned in to the live TV event after the 1st tower was hit by the 1st plane and as they watched the 2nd plane zeroing in on tower #4 they prayed to God Millions Prayed to God and value of such prayer made Nada Zero Zilch of a difference
Now a few other people will argue that the Prayers to Allah were effective because the Muslims driving that plane got Allah to help them navigate accurately
Anyway OP the company I consult for and used to work as employee - They Employ a HUGE and I mean a HUGE number of Muslims and this is because as Engineers they were well trained in countries of origin and came to US top Universities for MS and PhD degrees and ended up with H1B Visas and I have yet to meet a single one that is anything but peaceful -
The only personal issue I have had and it's been more than a few times is the number of Engineers/Muslims that ask me to introduce them to my dancing partners and I DON'T because these guys are Married - Of course not one has argued that it's OK because they are allowed to have more than one wife - I have run into such people at University including the WIFE of a Muslim who insisted that she was NOT about to be the Husbands only Wife