Jim !!U1oPlerJJ started this discussion 7 years ago#83,493
It was only a 4% margin. Brexit will bring devastating economic damage. They can even extend article 50 but are too stubborn to do so. Why are UKbrits so intent on jumping off a cliff?
Father Merrin !u5oFWxmY7U joined in and replied with this 7 years ago, 11 minutes later[^][v]#960,921
Because democracy means asking a chronically uninformed public what they think about inconceivably complex issues and then being bound to follow through on it with no option to ask if perhaps they've changed their minds now that they have a better understanding of what Brexit would mean. Also, the knuckle-draggers would riot if it was cancelled.
Anonymous C joined in and replied with this 7 years ago, 22 minutes later, 33 minutes after the original post[^][v]#960,923
@previous (Father Merrin !u5oFWxmY7U)
Isn't there a thing called riot police? And just release another referendum.
Father Merrin !u5oFWxmY7U replied with this 7 years ago, 10 minutes later, 43 minutes after the original post[^][v]#960,926
Yes, and deploying them is rarely seen as a comfortable backup plan for ignoring a democratic referendum result.
> And just release another referendum.
Because democracy means a government can ask people what they think only one time, regardless of changing circumstances.
(If it isn't clear, I'm being facetious. They should have another referendum but they won't).
(Edited 1 minute later.)
Anonymous C replied with this 7 years ago, 5 minutes later, 49 minutes after the original post[^][v]#960,927
@previous (Father Merrin !u5oFWxmY7U)
That's bullshit, California had a proposition regarding a high-speed rail line and when that never came to pass there was another prop. to see if Californians wanted to cancel it.
Father Merrin !u5oFWxmY7U replied with this 7 years ago, 5 minutes later, 54 minutes after the original post[^][v]#960,929
@previous (C)
Not comparable types of vote in either kind or degree.
But again I agree with your premise. A new vote should be held. I'm simply saying that it won't be because of a belief that it undermines the concept of referendums.
Svet !jzYkdX7lIw joined in and replied with this 7 years ago, 1 second later, 54 minutes after the original post[^][v]#960,930
Because fuck the EU
Father Merrin !u5oFWxmY7U replied with this 7 years ago, 1 minute later, 56 minutes after the original post[^][v]#960,931
You see the level of thoughtful reasoning you get from the Brexit crowd.
Kook !!rcSrAtaAC joined in and replied with this 7 years ago, 40 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#960,936
I think that if they were to put in some kind of assurance that they woudnt force Britain to take in tons of imigrints, they could vote again and it wouldn't go through
(Edited 12 seconds later.)
Anonymous F joined in and replied with this 7 years ago, 24 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#960,942
We need to brexit so we can smash the power of big finance and establish a socialist utopia.
(Edited 7 seconds later.)
Sheila LaBoof joined in and replied with this 7 years ago, 3 hours later, 5 hours after the original post[^][v]#961,000
> Isn't there a thing called riot police? And just release another referendum.
riot police is only to be applied to coal miners
Svet !jzYkdX7lIw replied with this 7 years ago, 15 hours later, 21 hours after the original post[^][v]#961,194
@960,936 (Kook !!rcSrAtaAC)
Won't work. The EU demands free movement as part of their 5 freedums which is ironic because in the same breath they claim mass migration is a boon but then say to receive all the benefits you must take some burden (immigration)
@960,931 (Father Merrin !u5oFWxmY7U)
Eat a fat cock you nonce. I got a vote and used it to leave which is my right
MR STEVEN MNUCHIN joined in and replied with this 7 years ago, 8 minutes later, 21 hours after the original post[^][v]#961,195
@960,936 (Kook !!rcSrAtaAC)
Right of Asylum you mora
Anonymous I joined in and replied with this 7 years ago, 2 minutes later, 21 hours after the original post[^][v]#961,196
@960,921 (Father Merrin !u5oFWxmY7U) @960,931 (Father Merrin !u5oFWxmY7U)
Very interesting that Dave is now trolling the local rightists instead of the local leftists. It says a lot about how the balance has shifted, that one of our career trolls now thinks the other side of the aisle is a better target for his hobby.
Father Merrin !u5oFWxmY7U replied with this 7 years ago, 2 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#961,215
> Won't work. The EU demands free movement as part of their 5 freedums which is ironic because in the same breath they claim mass migration is a boon but then say to receive all the benefits you must take some burden (immigration)
Oh look, complete ignorance of Britain's arrangement with the EU from a Brexit voter. What a surprise.
Britain has ALWAYS been exempt from the EU's border laws by virtue of staying out of the Schengen agreement. Which you would know if you didn't receive your information from slogans plastered on the sides of buses.
> Eat a fat cock you nonce. I got a vote and used it to leave which is my right
There's those calm and reasoned critical thinking skills of the Brexit crowd again.
Kook !!rcSrAtaAC replied with this 7 years ago, 25 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#961,220
> I think that if they were to put in some kind of assurance that they woudnt force Britain to take in tons of imigrints
The EU has never forced Britain to take in immigrants. If Britain took them in it's because it was Britain's choice to do so. The UK has always had special dispensation over its border policy, as was pointed out innumerable times during the summer of 2016, to absolutely no effect on the Brexit crowd. After all, how are you supposed to inform a class of uneducated insular morons about complex issues when they don't read beyond right-wing Rupert Murdoch tabloid headlines?
(Edited 3 minutes later.)
Anonymous J joined in and replied with this 7 years ago, 4 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#961,223
@previous (Father Merrin !u5oFWxmY7U)
leave murdoch-chan out of this!
Jim !!U1oPlerJJ (OP) replied with this 7 years ago, 28 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#961,226
@960,921 (Father Merrin !u5oFWxmY7U)
We haven't delivered on the result of the first referendum though. If the result of the first referendum isn't respected, why should the result of a second? Leave was ignored the first time, so remain should be ignored if they win. And if leave wins again, it will just be ignored. Lets leave the EU, give it 10 years and then have a second referendum. Democracy means implementing what the people voted for. A second referendum before we've even left is undemocratic.
Anonymous F replied with this 7 years ago, 8 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#961,228
> We haven't delivered on the result of the first referendum though. If the result of the first referendum isn't respected, why should the result of a second? Leave was ignored the first time, so remain should be ignored if they win. And if leave wins again, it will just be ignored. Lets leave the EU, give it 10 years and then have a second referendum. Democracy means implementing what the people voted for. A second referendum before we've even left is undemocratic.
I agree with the part about the dangerous consequences of a 2nd referendum. People who won the first vote will be perfectly justified in asking why the 2nd one should count. It would lead to a never-ending series of referendums, each more meaningless than the last. This is the point Theresa May has been making.
However, where I don't agree is that this is a question of "democracy". A referendum is not an election. Its result is not binding in any constitutional way. A referendum is, formally, advice that a people give to a government. A government is free to reject it. Which they should do on the grounds that the people who voted for it did so based on a woeful ignorance of the question (as ably demonstrated by 'Svet' in this thread, and, previously, Green).
Anonymous F replied with this 7 years ago, 2 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#961,309
In the run up, everyone said that the result would and must be respected, both Leavers and Remainers. Nobody was talking about a deal with the EU, and a No Deal is the Brexit that the People voted for.
Anonymous K joined in and replied with this 7 years ago, 8 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#961,310
@previous (F)
People make stupid decisions - For instance USA voted to ban booze. Years later that vote was repealed.
However in this case the Eu does not allow a country to exit and later apply to get back in the Eu.
> No Deal is the Brexit that the People voted for.
Exactly correct. They voted to leave no matter the consequences. They had no idea how that could work. Did not give a shit. Just wanted out.
So let them just get the hell out of the Eu. No trade deals for imports or exports. There is nothing the Eu really needs from UK.
UK can make it on their own just like in WWII because as history shows UK never needed help from anyone against the Nazi's.
Anonymous F replied with this 7 years ago, 40 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#961,320
> the Eu does not allow a country to exit and later apply to get back in the Eu.
Course it does, and anyway if the UK ever did in the future decide to join the EU it should be as a true EU member instead of having all the concessions.
Father Merrin !u5oFWxmY7U replied with this 7 years ago, 3 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#961,321
> In the run up, everyone said that the result would and must be respected, both Leavers and Remainers.
Because nobody in a million years thought the Brexiteers would win. Politicians were blind to how shockingly stupid so many people are. That's still not a reason to cripple the country's future just because large amounts of idiots receive their information from Nigel Farage and Rupert Murdoch.
> Nobody was talking about a deal with the EU, and a No Deal is the Brexit that the People voted for.
Your random capitalisation is ominously Trumpian, so I'm not sure where you're going with this. I'll simply repeat what I've already said: it's a referendum, not an election. It isn't constitutionally binding. I couldn't care less what 52 percent of people voted for. Ask a Brexiteer back in 2016 what kind of 'separation' they preferred, you'd be lucky if they could name you 10 countries of the EU. They had no idea what they were voting for. The job of government is to govern on behalf of an understandably uninformed populace, not pander to it.
Anonymous F replied with this 7 years ago, 13 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#961,322
2 Million 829,000 people voted for Clinton and Trump won and only because the USA allows retarded Southern Red states, to count for something more powerful than what the Democracy wanted.
Proves that what people vote for is not necessarily what they end up with.
Father Merrin !u5oFWxmY7U replied with this 7 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#961,325
> >I couldn't care less what 52 percent of people voted for > > Those 52 percent WOULD. Promises were made and need to be kept!
They voted based on a set of lies which were told to them by Farage and co and that they read on the sides of buses on their ways to collect their welfare money. 2 years on, more people now realise this. The government should scrap Brexit and make it an election issue (as in, if those 52 percent are still angry about it, vote the government out). This is far too serious an issue to be going ahead with it based on demonstrable falsehoods. When every informed economist is saying Brexit is a terrible idea, and every unemployed, uneducated layabout thinks it's awesome, it's time to temporarily suspend the reverence of 'democracy'.
Anonymous F replied with this 7 years ago, 29 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#961,337
> >it's time to temporarily suspend the reverence of 'democracy'. > > Okay, Julius.
If the plebeians had voted to cede all meaningful political influence throughout the Roman empire, then yes, Caesar would have vetoed the move, on the grounds that it would have been a stunningly stupid thing to do.
Anonymous F replied with this 7 years ago, 1 hour later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#961,455
I'd thought my comment about how doing otherwise would be a "stunningly stupid thing to do" was pretty clear. If not then I'll boil it down: yes, he would have been right to do so.
Anonymous F replied with this 7 years ago, 4 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#961,524
I would have thought my rhetorical question was pretty obvious, but I shall also boil it down: No, he would not, and you are a fool.
Father Merrin !u5oFWxmY7U replied with this 7 years ago, 3 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#961,558
@previous (F)
So you brought up Caesar as a way of suggesting an authoritarian who brushed aside democracy only to then say he wouldn't have brushed aside democracy. Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and say you're tripping over yourself here.
(Note again, everyone, the 'intelligence' of the Brexit crowd)
chill dog !!81dzJNNYL joined in and replied with this 7 years ago, 36 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#961,559
@previous (Father Merrin !u5oFWxmY7U)
so
Gimme a lil summary of the social war
100% focussing on ur opinions of everyones actions during the leadup and action
given ur strong comments regarding education on the classics i assume u have a decent amount to say
Dont worry i wont use it to cheat on my homework
(Edited 1 minute later.)
Father Merrin !u5oFWxmY7U replied with this 7 years ago, 1 hour later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#961,568
@previous (chill dog !!81dzJNNYL)
As the exiled Greek in Rome once wrote, to accuse others for one's own misfortunes is a sign of want of education. To accuse oneself shows that one's education has begun. To accuse neither oneself nor others shows that one's education is complete.
Long story short, wars happen, who knows why? If your teachers take issue with that, tell them they are arguing with Epictetus, who knew more than they.
Anonymous F replied with this 7 years ago, 2 hours later, 2 days after the original post[^][v]#961,583