Topic: Fuckin' Pinocchio, how does he work?
Anonymous A started this discussion 15 years ago #6,595
i don't even know, minichan. i don't even know.Anonymous B joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later[^] [v] #115,551
Why do you do these things, OP.Anonymous C joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 8 minutes later, 9 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #115,553
The salient feature of Pinocchio is that his nose grows whenever he tells a lie. From this one guesses that the paradox has something to do with lying. Now a lie is not the same as a false statement; it is a false statement made with the intention to deceive by someone who knows the truth. (Or so I will assume for the space of this post.) If this is what a lie is, then one cannot lie about matters that are not objectively the case and known to be such. Suppose I predict that tomorrow morning, at 6 AM, my blood pressure will be 125/75, but my prediction turns out false: my blood pressure the next morning is 135/85. No one who heard my prediction could claim that I lied when I made it even if I had the intention of deceiving my hearers. For although I made (what turned out to be) a false statement with the intention to deceive, I had no way of knowing exactly what my blood pressure would be the next day.
Similarly with 'My nose will grow now.' This sentence does not express an intention on Pinocchio's part to bring about a nose lengthening by the power of his will since presumably he never has such an intention. The sentence is a future tense sentence which predicts what is about to happen. 'Now' does not refer to the time of utterance, but to a time right after it. (If you argue that the presence of 'now' renders the sentence present tense, then the sentence is incoherent, and the 'paradox' cannot get off the ground.)
It follows that Pinocchio cannot be lying. Assuming the Law of Excluded Middle and Bivalence, what he says is either true or false. Either way, no paradox arises that I can see.
But suppose Pinnochio utters the present tense sentence, 'My nose grows now' or 'My nose is growing now.' Does this issue in paradox?
If Pinocchio says 'My nose grows now,' he is either lying or not. If he is lying, then he is making a false statement, which implies that his nose does not grow now. If he is not lying, then his statement is either true or false, which implies that either his nose does grow now or his nose does not grow now. Therefore, either his nose does not grow now or his nose does grow now. But that is wholly unproblematic.
Therefore I fail to find any paradox here if a paradox is either a logical consistency or a performative inconsistency.
Similarly with 'My nose will grow now.' This sentence does not express an intention on Pinocchio's part to bring about a nose lengthening by the power of his will since presumably he never has such an intention. The sentence is a future tense sentence which predicts what is about to happen. 'Now' does not refer to the time of utterance, but to a time right after it. (If you argue that the presence of 'now' renders the sentence present tense, then the sentence is incoherent, and the 'paradox' cannot get off the ground.)
It follows that Pinocchio cannot be lying. Assuming the Law of Excluded Middle and Bivalence, what he says is either true or false. Either way, no paradox arises that I can see.
But suppose Pinnochio utters the present tense sentence, 'My nose grows now' or 'My nose is growing now.' Does this issue in paradox?
If Pinocchio says 'My nose grows now,' he is either lying or not. If he is lying, then he is making a false statement, which implies that his nose does not grow now. If he is not lying, then his statement is either true or false, which implies that either his nose does grow now or his nose does not grow now. Therefore, either his nose does not grow now or his nose does grow now. But that is wholly unproblematic.
Therefore I fail to find any paradox here if a paradox is either a logical consistency or a performative inconsistency.
swamplights !!V3J448+/B joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 8 minutes later, 17 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #115,558
I remember a very scary animated version of Pinocchio that I loved as a child. It's not the Disney version. Does anyone remember this?
Anonymous B replied with this 15 years ago, 5 minutes later, 23 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #115,562
swamplights !!V3J448+/B replied with this 15 years ago, 28 seconds later, 23 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #115,565
Anonymous C replied with this 15 years ago, 58 seconds later, 24 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #115,566
@115,558 (swamplights !!V3J448+/B)
Is it in a collection of shorts, one of which deals with a bear that runs away from home in winter because he doesn't want to hibernatre, and is captured and left to die in a log by old man winter, before jack frost comes to save him?
Is it in a collection of shorts, one of which deals with a bear that runs away from home in winter because he doesn't want to hibernatre, and is captured and left to die in a log by old man winter, before jack frost comes to save him?
swamplights !!V3J448+/B replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 25 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #115,569
The Editor !FuckWtfW8M joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 1 hour later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #115,653
Don't be silly, OP. Puppets can't work. They're shunned by society and denied equal employment opportunities.Anonymous C replied with this 15 years ago, 26 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #115,667
@115,569 (swamplights !!V3J448+/B)
It's just something I used to watch on VHS tape when I was a kid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1YNoGmCChc
It's just something I used to watch on VHS tape when I was a kid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1YNoGmCChc
swamplights !!V3J448+/B replied with this 15 years ago, 5 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #115,674
@previous (C)
That was not what I was remembering, but I enjoyed it all the same. I love old cartoons. Oh! It might have been Japanese animation.
That was not what I was remembering, but I enjoyed it all the same. I love old cartoons. Oh! It might have been Japanese animation.
Anonymous C replied with this 15 years ago, 7 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #115,680
@previous (swamplights !!V3J448+/B)
Things like that are timeless. I wonder if my children will watch cartoons from the 1930s when they are young?
But why didn't you watch it all?
Things like that are timeless. I wonder if my children will watch cartoons from the 1930s when they are young?
But why didn't you watch it all?
(Edited 29 seconds later.)
swamplights !!V3J448+/B replied with this 15 years ago, 16 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #115,693
Anonymous C replied with this 15 years ago, 53 seconds later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #115,697
@previous (swamplights !!V3J448+/B)
Yes, but I'm saying that you said you enjoyed it 5 minutes after my post, when the cartoon is about 9 minutes long :-/
Yes, but I'm saying that you said you enjoyed it 5 minutes after my post, when the cartoon is about 9 minutes long :-/
Voice of !WisdomHsuU joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #115,702
Schrödinger's puppet
swamplights !!V3J448+/B replied with this 15 years ago, 29 seconds later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #115,705
Anonymous B replied with this 15 years ago, 4 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #115,708
!!DSTfP3+Y0 joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 1 hour later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #115,799
Hah.
nimj joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 25 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #115,817
nimj double-posted this 15 years ago, 19 seconds later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #115,818
oh wait
i get it
because pinoochio is a puppet
ok
i get it
because pinoochio is a puppet
ok
