Topic: If the universe is the totality of space and time, then what is it "expanding" into?
Anonymous A started this discussion 9 years ago #59,826
If by definition there is nothing beyond the limits of the universe, if there is no extra space other than what we already call 'the universe', then how can it expand? What kind of thing or space is it expanding into?
Anonymous B joined in and replied with this 9 years ago, 1 hour later[^] [v] #760,166
Some say there is no space. Some say there is. Some say we live in flat earth some say globe.
Im for one is over the fence in this matter so i cant comment on expanding spacr.
BTW there is a lot of criticism on einstein how he stole ideas etc2. Just youtube it.
Im for one is over the fence in this matter so i cant comment on expanding spacr.
BTW there is a lot of criticism on einstein how he stole ideas etc2. Just youtube it.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 9 years ago, 2 hours later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #760,185
Anonymous B replied with this 9 years ago, 2 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #760,190
@previous (A)
I can give a gist of it. Einstein attributed to e=mc2, proven beyond doubt that is not his theory.
He may improve some shit from other theories and shit, but in real scientific sense he didnt do shit. At least thats what i understood from the bideos.
I can give a gist of it. Einstein attributed to e=mc2, proven beyond doubt that is not his theory.
He may improve some shit from other theories and shit, but in real scientific sense he didnt do shit. At least thats what i understood from the bideos.
Sheila LaBoof joined in and replied with this 9 years ago, 1 minute later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #760,191
there is the idea that space is the same, it's just all the stuff in it is shrinking
Anonymous D joined in and replied with this 9 years ago, 1 hour later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #760,213
There is extra space, idiot
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 9 years ago, 1 minute later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #760,214
@previous (D)
Then why isn't that 'extra space' currently incorporated into what we now call 'the universe'?
Then why isn't that 'extra space' currently incorporated into what we now call 'the universe'?
Anonymous D replied with this 9 years ago, 4 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #760,217
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 9 years ago, 3 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #760,219
Anonymous D replied with this 9 years ago, 2 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #760,221
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 9 years ago, 3 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #760,223
@previous (D)
So then if 'the universe' is 'the totality of space and time', how do you explain this 'extra space' you've mentioned without undoing the definition and understanding of 'the universe'? If that extra space exists, why is it not included in 'the universe'? And since you avoided that question the first time around, I'll phrase it this way if it's easier for you - what and where is the barrier between space and 'extra space'?
So then if 'the universe' is 'the totality of space and time', how do you explain this 'extra space' you've mentioned without undoing the definition and understanding of 'the universe'? If that extra space exists, why is it not included in 'the universe'? And since you avoided that question the first time around, I'll phrase it this way if it's easier for you - what and where is the barrier between space and 'extra space'?
Anonymous D replied with this 9 years ago, 4 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #760,229
@previous (A)
It's called extra for a reason. You clearly don't understand simplistic ideas. I'm not here to educate retards like you so I'll leave you to your ignorance.
:)
It's called extra for a reason. You clearly don't understand simplistic ideas. I'm not here to educate retards like you so I'll leave you to your ignorance.
:)
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 9 years ago, 1 minute later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #760,230
Anonymous D replied with this 9 years ago, 50 seconds later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #760,232
Anonymous E joined in and replied with this 9 years ago, 2 hours later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #760,281
It would be like if OP made a thread with all the stupid and then just kept posting, forcing the existing stupid to expand into the thread.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 9 years ago, 8 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #760,284
Anonymous E replied with this 9 years ago, 2 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #760,287
ken griffey sr joined in and replied with this 9 years ago, 17 minutes later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #760,303
the limit don't exist op
squeegee joined in and replied with this 9 years ago, 39 minutes later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #760,331
@760,190 (B)
are you confusing maxwells theory of electromagnetism, einsteins photovoltaic experiments and the special theory of relativity? you understand e=mc2 is not the theory right? special relativity is what einstein discovered, e=mc2 was basically co-discovered by multiple physicists, and maxwell would have gotten it too if not for the photovoltaic effect being unknown at the time. yes, einstein used lorrentz transformations as described by maxwell to develop the physical model of relativity (gravity is really warped spacetime) but that doesn't mean einstein stole anything. he stood on the shoulders of giants, but all physicists freely admit that. but, special relativity was einsteins real breakthrough, not e=mc2. all he did was apply it to "spacetime" which is his real actual breakthrough.
also the question in the op doesn't make physical sense. it's not even expanding into nothing, the universe is all we understand about spacetime, and is all there is according to our current understanding. your question literally cannot be answered becuase the answer is both it is expanding somewhere, and nowhere at the same time. until we have a more full understanding of physics that question is unanswerable. eventually we'll probably be able to say that the question itself is misinformed, and that asking about what's beyond expansion is not a valid question. probably better physics would help us ask better questions.
asking what's beyond the universe might be similar to asking "where does a fractal end and what's mathematicall beyond it? well. no, and just more fractal.
are you confusing maxwells theory of electromagnetism, einsteins photovoltaic experiments and the special theory of relativity? you understand e=mc2 is not the theory right? special relativity is what einstein discovered, e=mc2 was basically co-discovered by multiple physicists, and maxwell would have gotten it too if not for the photovoltaic effect being unknown at the time. yes, einstein used lorrentz transformations as described by maxwell to develop the physical model of relativity (gravity is really warped spacetime) but that doesn't mean einstein stole anything. he stood on the shoulders of giants, but all physicists freely admit that. but, special relativity was einsteins real breakthrough, not e=mc2. all he did was apply it to "spacetime" which is his real actual breakthrough.
also the question in the op doesn't make physical sense. it's not even expanding into nothing, the universe is all we understand about spacetime, and is all there is according to our current understanding. your question literally cannot be answered becuase the answer is both it is expanding somewhere, and nowhere at the same time. until we have a more full understanding of physics that question is unanswerable. eventually we'll probably be able to say that the question itself is misinformed, and that asking about what's beyond expansion is not a valid question. probably better physics would help us ask better questions.
asking what's beyond the universe might be similar to asking "where does a fractal end and what's mathematicall beyond it? well. no, and just more fractal.
(Edited 2 minutes later.)
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 9 years ago, 2 minutes later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #760,334
@previous (squeegee)
> that question is unanswerable.
No, simply you can't answer it. Thanks, that'll be all.
> that question is unanswerable.
No, simply you can't answer it. Thanks, that'll be all.
squeegee replied with this 9 years ago, 1 minute later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #760,335
@previous (A)
yeah, and i'm simply in very good company considering no one can answer that question.
yeah, and i'm simply in very good company considering no one can answer that question.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 9 years ago, 2 minutes later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #760,337
@previous (squeegee)
> no one can answer that question.
How do you know? Are you so arrogant you think that if you can't do something it means that nobody else from roughly 7 billion people can? You are not as clever as you like to think you are. Thanks.
> no one can answer that question.
How do you know? Are you so arrogant you think that if you can't do something it means that nobody else from roughly 7 billion people can? You are not as clever as you like to think you are. Thanks.
Anonymous H joined in and replied with this 9 years ago, 25 minutes later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #760,349
> You are not as clever as you like to think you are. Thanks.
squeegee replied with this 9 years ago, 11 minutes later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #760,356
@760,337 (A)
until someone publishes their work, yes. yes i am arrogant enough to admit reality. you're welcome.
until someone publishes their work, yes. yes i am arrogant enough to admit reality. you're welcome.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 9 years ago, 59 seconds later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #760,358
squeegee replied with this 9 years ago, 6 minutes later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #760,361
@previous (A)
i would be aware of published work that overturns the standard model of physics, yes. so would you. it would be all over the news. atm best we got are a bunch of ideas being worked on. one of my favorites involves a highly complex 12 dimensional rotating object. but, it's just a hypothesis and until he publishes (if he publishes) there's no way to even check his work.
but yeah, if there was some new physics out there we'd be aware. but, just be patient. chances are pretty good we'll eventually figure it out.
i would be aware of published work that overturns the standard model of physics, yes. so would you. it would be all over the news. atm best we got are a bunch of ideas being worked on. one of my favorites involves a highly complex 12 dimensional rotating object. but, it's just a hypothesis and until he publishes (if he publishes) there's no way to even check his work.
but yeah, if there was some new physics out there we'd be aware. but, just be patient. chances are pretty good we'll eventually figure it out.
Anonymous I joined in and replied with this 9 years ago, 4 minutes later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #760,362
The question is kind of flawed because it imagines a kind of "edge of the universe", when really the universe has no edge.
When we say the Universe is expanding it means that the matter of the Universe "space" is spreading further apart through the nothingness inbetween.
Now various physicist models predict a kind of "outside of the bubble" of the total possible area of the Universe, interestingly enough. There are even working theories of different Universes floating in a "quantum" foam.
The Universe is exciting.
When we say the Universe is expanding it means that the matter of the Universe "space" is spreading further apart through the nothingness inbetween.
Now various physicist models predict a kind of "outside of the bubble" of the total possible area of the Universe, interestingly enough. There are even working theories of different Universes floating in a "quantum" foam.
The Universe is exciting.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 9 years ago, 6 minutes later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #760,364
@760,361 (squeegee)
> it would be all over the news.
Oh Jesus Christ...
If you're checking the news for this stuff then it's no wonder you have no idea what you're talking about. These are highly complex questions squeegee, try reading a proper scientific journal every now and again befoee you start feeling superior to 7 billion other people.
> it would be all over the news.
Oh Jesus Christ...
If you're checking the news for this stuff then it's no wonder you have no idea what you're talking about. These are highly complex questions squeegee, try reading a proper scientific journal every now and again befoee you start feeling superior to 7 billion other people.
squeegee replied with this 9 years ago, 28 seconds later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #760,365
@760,362 (I)
i think it was lenard suskind who's been giving talks about the holographic theory and he had a wild idea that after enough eons all that would be left are propagating gravity waves and that they would leave an "imprint" on a new universe that expands from the quantum foam being perterbed by these waves. something like that. it involved black hole singularities and the big bang singularity being indistinguishable and a "phase transition" kind of thing.
it's probably been invalidated becuase i haven't heard anything about it for years, but it's pretty cool shit. way above my head though.
i think it was lenard suskind who's been giving talks about the holographic theory and he had a wild idea that after enough eons all that would be left are propagating gravity waves and that they would leave an "imprint" on a new universe that expands from the quantum foam being perterbed by these waves. something like that. it involved black hole singularities and the big bang singularity being indistinguishable and a "phase transition" kind of thing.
it's probably been invalidated becuase i haven't heard anything about it for years, but it's pretty cool shit. way above my head though.
squeegee double-posted this 9 years ago, 30 seconds later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #760,366
Anonymous I replied with this 9 years ago, 9 minutes later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #760,371
@760,365 (squeegee)
I read with great interest about the model that was recently announced which is supposed to prove that the universe is encoded as a 2D Hologram. It really affirms my faith in the Simulation.
I read with great interest about the model that was recently announced which is supposed to prove that the universe is encoded as a 2D Hologram. It really affirms my faith in the Simulation.
squeegee replied with this 9 years ago, 35 minutes later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #760,382
@previous (I)
holographic theory is a fun one, there are a handfull of experiments being worked on that could actually disprove or validate parts of it so it's way more interesting than other fringe theories. it does rely on weird stuff though, like loop quantum gravity and other string theories - i think - i just know there's some parts that are basically philosophy. lenard suskind specifically rejects the idea of a literal 2D projection while still embracing the holographic principle. but that's the philosophy bit i think.
holographic theory is a fun one, there are a handfull of experiments being worked on that could actually disprove or validate parts of it so it's way more interesting than other fringe theories. it does rely on weird stuff though, like loop quantum gravity and other string theories - i think - i just know there's some parts that are basically philosophy. lenard suskind specifically rejects the idea of a literal 2D projection while still embracing the holographic principle. but that's the philosophy bit i think.
Anonymous B replied with this 9 years ago, 2 hours later, 13 hours after the original post[^] [v] #760,414
@760,331 (squeegee)
Yeah thats what im trying to say. Im not a specialist in subject matter, so my knowledge is rather limited.
But in normal population if asked about einstein greatest discovery theyll answer e=mc2. At least that was my answer before watching that bideo.
Im not here to debate whether einstein was a good man or a prick. Suffice to say im over the fence. Special relativity electromagnetism and shit. I do not prescribe to any theory such that, gravity vs electricity flat globe earth. Im just chillin and see which will hold to the test of time.
Can you dig it?
Yeah thats what im trying to say. Im not a specialist in subject matter, so my knowledge is rather limited.
But in normal population if asked about einstein greatest discovery theyll answer e=mc2. At least that was my answer before watching that bideo.
Im not here to debate whether einstein was a good man or a prick. Suffice to say im over the fence. Special relativity electromagnetism and shit. I do not prescribe to any theory such that, gravity vs electricity flat globe earth. Im just chillin and see which will hold to the test of time.
Can you dig it?
squeegee joined in and replied with this 9 years ago, 3 hours later, 16 hours after the original post[^] [v] #760,450
@previous (B)i can dig it unless it's a flat earth. you go too far and you'll fall through to the infinite turtles. and you know the mother fuckers are the snapping kind. you just know it.
Big Daddy Derek !Uvm54ORbmo replied with this 9 years ago, 29 minutes later, 16 hours after the original post[^] [v] #760,457
@previous (squeegee)
you seen them snapping turtle tongues? they look like food but they ain't. don't fall for it
you seen them snapping turtle tongues? they look like food but they ain't. don't fall for it
squeegee replied with this 9 years ago, 5 minutes later, 16 hours after the original post[^] [v] #760,462
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 9 years ago, 6 hours later, 23 hours after the original post[^] [v] #760,507
Anonymous K joined in and replied with this 9 years ago, 7 minutes later, 23 hours after the original post[^] [v] #760,509
dongs, its expanding into dongs until we have expandongs
Anonymous L joined in and replied with this 9 years ago, 5 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #760,553
God.