Topic: The EU is such a benevolent and democratic organisation.
Green !BEERiVqJJw started this discussion 10 years ago #53,350
Telling us to get out as fast as possible and trying to make it hard on us to dissuade other countries from leaving. 'Do as we say and be controlled by us because we are a free organisation. Don't you dare defy us though or we will come down on you'. Glad we're leaving these bastards.
Anonymous B joined in and replied with this 10 years ago, 1 minute later[^] [v] #695,791
i associate the word brexit with the colour pale brownLucifer !MLHqI35Srs joined in and replied with this 10 years ago, 4 minutes later, 6 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #695,795
Since when did You become so politically engaged? You're a dole scratcher.
RWBY Rhubarb? !!iNo3FkiZx joined in and replied with this 10 years ago, 2 minutes later, 8 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #695,800
WSD !m2cp3rR5zw joined in and replied with this 10 years ago, 19 minutes later, 27 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #695,810
Lucifer !MLHqI35Srs replied with this 10 years ago, 7 minutes later, 35 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #695,813
TTEH !PUPenis69. joined in and replied with this 10 years ago, 26 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #695,814
They're not asking us to begin exit negotiations as soon as possible to punish us, Green. They want the period of uncertainty to be as short as possible so they can begin getting things back together.
Anonymous B replied with this 10 years ago, 4 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #695,815
RWBY Rhubarb? !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 10 years ago, 43 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #695,817
@695,814 (TTEH !PUPenis69.)
Well... I do think Green's reasoning here is somewhat valid. Anti-EU parties across Europe have been emboldened by this. (Attempting) to strong-arm the UK and make the process difficult could dissaude Europeans from voting for the anti-EU parties.
I agree with your point too, but I think there could be something to what Green is saying.
Well... I do think Green's reasoning here is somewhat valid. Anti-EU parties across Europe have been emboldened by this. (Attempting) to strong-arm the UK and make the process difficult could dissaude Europeans from voting for the anti-EU parties.
I agree with your point too, but I think there could be something to what Green is saying.
Anonymous G joined in and replied with this 10 years ago, 11 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #695,818
We voluntarily took part in the European project which we constantly hindered and demanded special exemptions and now we're using them as a scapegoat so they have a reason to want us gone.
Anonymous H joined in and replied with this 10 years ago, 3 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #695,819
@OP
@695,817 (RWBY Rhubarb? !!iNo3FkiZx)
lol. yes let's "punish" the UK by "pushing" them into doing what they voted they'd do. if you're leaving, get it over with.
@695,817 (RWBY Rhubarb? !!iNo3FkiZx)
lol. yes let's "punish" the UK by "pushing" them into doing what they voted they'd do. if you're leaving, get it over with.
TTEH !PUPenis69. replied with this 10 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #695,821
@695,817 (RWBY Rhubarb? !!iNo3FkiZx)
I do agree the EU won't want to make the process seem easy and without pain, but Merkel has already rejected the idea that the EU will want to punish the UK, and set an example to other countries, quite explicitly. Juncker asked for a hurried exit and Merkel said the exit should be sensibly paced and that there is no need to be 'nasty', essentially putting Juncker in his place.
I do agree the EU won't want to make the process seem easy and without pain, but Merkel has already rejected the idea that the EU will want to punish the UK, and set an example to other countries, quite explicitly. Juncker asked for a hurried exit and Merkel said the exit should be sensibly paced and that there is no need to be 'nasty', essentially putting Juncker in his place.
Anonymous I joined in and replied with this 10 years ago, 14 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #695,832
This is going to be fun to watch. You brits did this to yourselves.
Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU joined in and replied with this 10 years ago, 1 hour later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #695,844
You told them you didn't want to be a member of their organization and now you are being shown the door. If you announced to your boss that you are quitting your job, why would you be outraged when you find all your stuff put in a box on your desk the next day? You ukenglish people are so whiny.
Anonymous K joined in and replied with this 10 years ago, 9 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #695,845
Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU replied with this 10 years ago, 1 minute later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #695,846
squeegee joined in and replied with this 10 years ago, 2 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #695,848
this is kind of like when that girl who broke up with me a few years ago and i said, "okay," and helped her pack her things and then she wanted to drag out the move and made it hard as fuck to actually get her to follow through with it. careful what you wish for.
(Edited 23 seconds later.)
RWBY Rhubarb? !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 10 years ago, 14 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #695,849
@695,844 (Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU)
It isn't that simple. Our PM is attempting to pass doing starting the exit process to his successor, and a lot of our MPs in the government are having second thoughts, especially now that the negative repercussions of doing this have been made plain.
Please try to have a little more sympathy. This referendum, was, essentially, won by people who are "anti-expert" and xenophobic, with the Leave campaign now admitting that many of their promises were lies.
What's more, the referendum was nearly 50/50, and many Leave voters are now regretting their choice. Of course we are unsure and hesitant. It is certainly not a clear-cut thing, but it is an extremely unpleasant one.
@695,821 (TTEH !PUPenis69.)
I hope so, then. Because, right now, the ball is in the UK's court.
It isn't that simple. Our PM is attempting to pass doing starting the exit process to his successor, and a lot of our MPs in the government are having second thoughts, especially now that the negative repercussions of doing this have been made plain.
Please try to have a little more sympathy. This referendum, was, essentially, won by people who are "anti-expert" and xenophobic, with the Leave campaign now admitting that many of their promises were lies.
What's more, the referendum was nearly 50/50, and many Leave voters are now regretting their choice. Of course we are unsure and hesitant. It is certainly not a clear-cut thing, but it is an extremely unpleasant one.
@695,821 (TTEH !PUPenis69.)
I hope so, then. Because, right now, the ball is in the UK's court.
(Edited 2 minutes later.)
Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU replied with this 10 years ago, 5 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #695,850
@previous (RWBY Rhubarb? !!iNo3FkiZx)
All of that can be true, but you guys made a decision. I get being mad at your fellow countrymen for making the wrong decision but I don't get being mad at the EU for holding you to a referendum you freely chose to hold, and voted on with over 70% turnout.
All of that can be true, but you guys made a decision. I get being mad at your fellow countrymen for making the wrong decision but I don't get being mad at the EU for holding you to a referendum you freely chose to hold, and voted on with over 70% turnout.
RWBY Rhubarb? !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 10 years ago, 11 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #695,852
@previous (Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU)
A decision that was:
- Grossly misinformed, the Leave campaign is already back-pedalling on immigration reduction and cash for the NHS, their two major promises.
- Is marked by considerable regret. Just today, I read in the Daily Mail that 7% of Leave voters they surveyed regret their vote.
I personally am not really mad at the EU. I think I understand and accept their attitude. What I'm wanting is for this thing to be held off so that my country's government might step away from this terrible decision, ideally with a second referendum going the other way.
A decision that was:
- Grossly misinformed, the Leave campaign is already back-pedalling on immigration reduction and cash for the NHS, their two major promises.
- Is marked by considerable regret. Just today, I read in the Daily Mail that 7% of Leave voters they surveyed regret their vote.
I personally am not really mad at the EU. I think I understand and accept their attitude. What I'm wanting is for this thing to be held off so that my country's government might step away from this terrible decision, ideally with a second referendum going the other way.
Anonymous M joined in and replied with this 10 years ago, 26 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #695,854
@previous (RWBY Rhubarb? !!iNo3FkiZx)
> A decision that was:
> - Grossly misinformed, the Leave campaign is already back-pedalling on immigration reduction and cash for the NHS, their two major promises.
Not true. Leave campaigned on the ability to control immigration, not to reduce it. They are not the government. They cannot set policy.
The money for the NHS is not available until we leave the EU. Even then, it wasn't suggested that it would all be spent on the NHS. Spending on science and reducing fuel VAT was also raised as potential ideas to spend the money on. But, once again, they are not the government. It is up to the government to enact policies like this, not a cross-party campaign group.
> - Is marked by considerable regret. Just today, I read in the Daily Mail that 7% of Leave voters they surveyed regret their vote.
Also not true.
> A decision that was:
> - Grossly misinformed, the Leave campaign is already back-pedalling on immigration reduction and cash for the NHS, their two major promises.
Not true. Leave campaigned on the ability to control immigration, not to reduce it. They are not the government. They cannot set policy.
The money for the NHS is not available until we leave the EU. Even then, it wasn't suggested that it would all be spent on the NHS. Spending on science and reducing fuel VAT was also raised as potential ideas to spend the money on. But, once again, they are not the government. It is up to the government to enact policies like this, not a cross-party campaign group.
> - Is marked by considerable regret. Just today, I read in the Daily Mail that 7% of Leave voters they surveyed regret their vote.
Also not true.
(Edited 34 seconds later.)
Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU replied with this 10 years ago, 8 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #695,855
@695,852 (RWBY Rhubarb? !!iNo3FkiZx)
Oh yeah you guys definitely fucked up. It's like in 2004 when the U.S. re-elected GWB. But sometimes people and countries make awful decisions. Good luck bb.
Oh yeah you guys definitely fucked up. It's like in 2004 when the U.S. re-elected GWB. But sometimes people and countries make awful decisions. Good luck bb.
Anonymous N joined in and replied with this 10 years ago, 32 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #695,867
Keep this to one thread please. Thanks.
Green !BEERiVqJJw (OP) replied with this 10 years ago, 1 minute later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #695,869
@695,852 (RWBY Rhubarb? !!iNo3FkiZx)
> read in the Daily Mail
There's your problem.
@previous (N)
No.
> read in the Daily Mail
There's your problem.
@previous (N)
No.
RWBY Rhubarb? !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 10 years ago, 3 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #695,870
@695,854 (M)> Not true. Leave campaigned on the ability to control immigration, not to reduce it.
I don't see your point. What do you think they were implying they would use that control to do?
(Former) MEP Daniel Hannan and Tory MP Nigel Evans, both figures on the Vote Leave campaign, are now saying that there was a misunderstanding regarding immigration:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/eu-referendum-tory-campaigner-admits-brexit-immigration-some-control-a7102626.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-immigration-uk-nigel-evans-eu-referendum-latest-news-what-will-happen-migrants-a7104021.html
That's the leave campaign's fault. They were happy to be vague about it and ride the assumptions that this meant significantly slashing EU immigration. Only now are they having to come out and say that it isn't quite like the voters believed.
> Even then, it wasn't suggested that it would all be spent on the NHS.
Yes it was. This was a major promise of the Vote Leave campaign. Pic related. And Farage is now stepping back from the promise specifically, but just weeks before, he said that it was £55m a day that would be freed up, and that that money could go back into Britain.
They were happy to plaster it all over their propaganda, but the recent economic plunge (which many economists predict could last 10-20 years) could seriously impede this promise. Not that Vote Leave cared to underline this risk.
> But, once again, they are not the government. It is up to the government to enact policies like this, not a cross-party campaign group.
And did the Leave campaign make sure to point this out? Did they make sure their voters knew these were only estimates or possibilities? If they did, it certainly wasn't loud enough.
> Also not true.
Okay, I should perhaps have made this point clearer. While, inconveniently I cannot find an online version, today's physical Daily Mail says that they ran a survey, and 7% of the Leave respondents regretted their choice. This is just one survey, but it's there.
(Edited 43 minutes later.)
RWBY Rhubarb? !!iNo3FkiZx double-posted this 10 years ago, 4 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #695,871
@695,869 (Green !BEERiVqJJw)
> > read in the Daily Mail
> There's your problem.
I don't normally read it. But the pub I work in gets it. I flip through it briefly in the mornings.
> > read in the Daily Mail
> There's your problem.
I don't normally read it. But the pub I work in gets it. I flip through it briefly in the mornings.
RWBY Rhubarb? !!iNo3FkiZx triple-posted this 10 years ago, 4 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #695,872
@695,870 (RWBY Rhubarb? !!iNo3FkiZx)Oh, and now Ian Duncan Smith is also trying to back-pedal away from the NHS claim.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/eu-referendum-brexit-vote-leave-iain-duncan-smith-nhs
How clever they were, waiting until after the referendum to acknowledge how economically feasible that claim was.
Anonymous M replied with this 10 years ago, 12 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #695,874
@previous (RWBY Rhubarb? !!iNo3FkiZx)
Can you see where it says "let's" in both of those slogans? That means it's a suggestion.
IDS, Farage, or Hannan are not in a position to act on these suggestions because they are not government ministers.
Can you see where it says "let's" in both of those slogans? That means it's a suggestion.
IDS, Farage, or Hannan are not in a position to act on these suggestions because they are not government ministers.
RWBY Rhubarb? !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 10 years ago, 6 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #695,877
@previous (M)
And can you see where it says "We will have this money. Spend it on the NHS"? How do you think a leave-inclined was going to take that claim?
As I've already said, they are misinforming people by not underlining this prior to the referendum ending. They were quite happy to let people assume it was true to boost their support.
And can you see where it says "We will have this money. Spend it on the NHS"? How do you think a leave-inclined was going to take that claim?
As I've already said, they are misinforming people by not underlining this prior to the referendum ending. They were quite happy to let people assume it was true to boost their support.
Green !BEERiVqJJw (OP) replied with this 10 years ago, 6 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #695,881
@695,870 (RWBY Rhubarb? !!iNo3FkiZx)
I have to admit that you are right about quite a lot of that. Leaflets from Leavers said that money would go back into the NHS and we would have control over our borders. I still stick by my leave decision at the moment, but we will see how everything plays out in the next week.
I have to admit that you are right about quite a lot of that. Leaflets from Leavers said that money would go back into the NHS and we would have control over our borders. I still stick by my leave decision at the moment, but we will see how everything plays out in the next week.
Anonymous M replied with this 10 years ago, 1 hour later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #695,920
@695,877 (RWBY Rhubarb? !!iNo3FkiZx)
That "Spend it on the NHS" is the duty of the government. The Leave campaign is not the government. It is not misleading to say that when we leave we will have this money and it could be spent on the NHS.
How someone perceives a claim is not a relevant point anyway.
That "Spend it on the NHS" is the duty of the government. The Leave campaign is not the government. It is not misleading to say that when we leave we will have this money and it could be spent on the NHS.
How someone perceives a claim is not a relevant point anyway.
RWBY Rhubarb? !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 10 years ago, 9 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #695,923
@previous (M)
Well, anon, I don't know what else I can say. You seem to be saying that the leave campaign isn't at all at fault for saying those things without being able to back them up, and it's entirely the fault of the leave voters for not assuming that these claims were dodgy to begin with.
I think it's best we leave it there. Thanks.
@695,881 (Green !BEERiVqJJw)
Oh yeah. Next week is going to be interesting, to say the least. I don't know what the fuck's going to happen, though. Hopefully nothing too shit, but I'm not exactly optimistic.
Well, anon, I don't know what else I can say. You seem to be saying that the leave campaign isn't at all at fault for saying those things without being able to back them up, and it's entirely the fault of the leave voters for not assuming that these claims were dodgy to begin with.
I think it's best we leave it there. Thanks.
@695,881 (Green !BEERiVqJJw)
Oh yeah. Next week is going to be interesting, to say the least. I don't know what the fuck's going to happen, though. Hopefully nothing too shit, but I'm not exactly optimistic.
Anonymous M replied with this 10 years ago, 37 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #695,940
@previous (RWBY Rhubarb? !!iNo3FkiZx)
Let's assume that the Leave campaigners actually do want to massively increase NHS spending. How do you propose they do this while not being part of the government?
Let's assume that the Leave campaigners actually do want to massively increase NHS spending. How do you propose they do this while not being part of the government?