Topic: I'm worried if Trump gets elected he will destabilize a middle eastern country for no reason.
Metæ started this discussion 10 years ago #53,182
That would endanger America's security. Hillary probably won't do that.
Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU joined in and replied with this 10 years ago, 6 minutes later[^] [v] #694,237
Are there any stable countries in the ME besides Israel lol? It is hard to destabilize that which is not already stable.
Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU double-posted this 10 years ago, 1 minute later, 7 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #694,238
Also have you seen Trump's fundraising and polling numbers? Sad!
beckyderp !Hi.HILLARY joined in and replied with this 10 years ago, 59 seconds later, 8 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #694,239
Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU replied with this 10 years ago, 4 minutes later, 12 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #694,240
@previous (beckyderp !Hi.HILLARY)
Look, Muslims have been living in the desert of the ME for millennia, blessed with oil and natural gas, and can't seem to build a state that citizens are happy with. Jews come in less than 80 years ago, fight off every existing nation in the region at the same time, twice, and build a functioning healthy state in the only part of the desert with no oil. Im not saying we are better than them, just that they are way worse than us. Thanks.
Look, Muslims have been living in the desert of the ME for millennia, blessed with oil and natural gas, and can't seem to build a state that citizens are happy with. Jews come in less than 80 years ago, fight off every existing nation in the region at the same time, twice, and build a functioning healthy state in the only part of the desert with no oil. Im not saying we are better than them, just that they are way worse than us. Thanks.
(Edited 9 seconds later.)
Dr. Whom !7MHPahvoGY joined in and replied with this 10 years ago, 1 minute later, 14 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #694,241
WSD !m2cp3rR5zw joined in and replied with this 10 years ago, 13 minutes later, 27 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #694,242
Metæ (OP) replied with this 10 years ago, 1 minute later, 29 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #694,243
@694,237 (Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU)
I thought Libya and Egypt were pretty stable. Not in the first world McDonalds-and-democracy way, but they posed no threat to America.
I thought Libya and Egypt were pretty stable. Not in the first world McDonalds-and-democracy way, but they posed no threat to America.
Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU replied with this 10 years ago, 20 minutes later, 50 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #694,247
@previous (Metæ)
I mean they were stable insofar as dictatorships are stable, but dictatorships last roughly as long as the dictator does, and then go to shit pretty quickly.
I mean they were stable insofar as dictatorships are stable, but dictatorships last roughly as long as the dictator does, and then go to shit pretty quickly.
(Edited 12 seconds later.)
Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU double-posted this 10 years ago, 1 minute later, 51 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #694,248
Sheila LaBoof joined in and replied with this 10 years ago, 1 hour later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #694,261
maybe he'll just call them names
that'll be alright
that'll be alright
Metæ (OP) replied with this 10 years ago, 13 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #694,267
@694,237 (Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU)
I wasn't thinking about Israel but as a thought experiment imagine if the US gave, say, Yemen 4 billion a year, billions more in loan guarantees, tacit permission to develop nukes, a de facto UNSC veto, unlimited diplomatic support, and paid Yemen's neighbors several billion a year to play nice, Yemen might be a bit more stable.
Israel's achievement's are genuinely impressive, but I think without US aid Israel would have gone the way of Rhodesia.
I wasn't thinking about Israel but as a thought experiment imagine if the US gave, say, Yemen 4 billion a year, billions more in loan guarantees, tacit permission to develop nukes, a de facto UNSC veto, unlimited diplomatic support, and paid Yemen's neighbors several billion a year to play nice, Yemen might be a bit more stable.
Israel's achievement's are genuinely impressive, but I think without US aid Israel would have gone the way of Rhodesia.
(Edited 5 minutes later.)
Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU replied with this 10 years ago, 9 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #694,268
@previous (Metæ)
We did most of that with the Saudis, and look at what a blossoming liberal democracy that is. Also initially Israel was sponsored by the USSR, and it was only after the Suez crisis (I think) that the US started to provide aid and support to Israel. The middle east debacle is not all about the USA. Why does no one ever blame the collapse of the Ottoman empire, the partitioning by the British empire, or the Soviets? Or, you know, the actual people who lived there.
We did most of that with the Saudis, and look at what a blossoming liberal democracy that is. Also initially Israel was sponsored by the USSR, and it was only after the Suez crisis (I think) that the US started to provide aid and support to Israel. The middle east debacle is not all about the USA. Why does no one ever blame the collapse of the Ottoman empire, the partitioning by the British empire, or the Soviets? Or, you know, the actual people who lived there.
Metæ (OP) replied with this 10 years ago, 9 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #694,269
@previous (Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU)
It's not a democracy but it is very stable and poses no threat to the US. I think Jeffersonian democracy is not the only way to run a country and indeed it may not work for Arab cultures. If the Arabs want mullahs and sheiks and strongmen then that is their business and I don't think America should force cultural norms on other nations. We wouldn't like it if the Saudis forced us to live under Sharia law and they probably wouldn't like if we forced them into parliamentary democracy.
The British and the Soviets closed up shop long ago. The USA is the 800lb gorilla in the region.
It's not a democracy but it is very stable and poses no threat to the US. I think Jeffersonian democracy is not the only way to run a country and indeed it may not work for Arab cultures. If the Arabs want mullahs and sheiks and strongmen then that is their business and I don't think America should force cultural norms on other nations. We wouldn't like it if the Saudis forced us to live under Sharia law and they probably wouldn't like if we forced them into parliamentary democracy.
The British and the Soviets closed up shop long ago. The USA is the 800lb gorilla in the region.