Topic: tl;dr don't open if you can't spare a few minutes to read
Anonymous A started this discussion 15 years ago #5,244
If you are reading this, you are most likely a slave. The demographics
of people who have web access and have time to surf make
it very likely you are exactly the right person to read what I have to
say. Please continue.
Let me write it again. You are a slave. If you are like most
people, you probably read that sentence and don't understand it or
believe it. You may think of slaves as African Americans in the
US in the 18th and 19th century, or even in Brazil and Sudan today.
Some of the more educated readers probably know much more about
that kind of slavery and its history than I do... You probably say to
yourself, "I don't feel like a slave. Who is enslaving me? I have
free choice! -- I have real freedoms."
You are not a slave with shackles or chains, but you still cannot get
away. You are abjectly subservient to influences completely beyond
your control, and those influences pervade the thoughts, actions, and
assumptions of everyone around you.
Recently I've spent a lot of time
thinking, talking, and learning about human behavior, and
frankly, the conclusions have led me to the simple (and hard to
explain) conclusion that most people are slaves to a way of life that
makes them miserable, and they don't even know it. I'm not sure
where it will go: possibly discussions, reading lists, articles,
feedback -- who knows. I'm looking for input.
I just said people are slaves to "a way of life" above. I'm talking
mostly about western culture; I am a US citizen, and it seems that
western culture is swallowing most of the world. More specifically,
I'm talking about the last 100 - 150 years since major
industrialization occurred in the developed world.
> wage slaves
Let's get more specific. I'm talking about corporations and
marketing. I'm talking about the assumption that companies have to
keep growing or die. I am talking about a completely broken political
system where our leaders and their decision are regularly chosen and
controlled by big money. I am talking about hoards of people taught
to live in a way that makes them miserable within a monetary
system that leaves them no choice but to work far more than they
should.
Ask yourself this question:
> Why do people work as much as they do?
There are lots of answers. They have debt. They have to save for
retirement. They have to save for kids' education. They want better
homes, bigger cars, the next PDA. Some even like it. Everyone works;
if you don't work hard, something must be wrong with you. And then --
if you take the argument far enough, I always get, "well, you have to
eat; if you don't work, how are you going to put food on the table?"
For most people in Western culture (you know, the one swallowing
the rest of the world as you read this), its not a question they even
have time to consider. They have to work. They have no choice.
To have a better life, you have to work harder, right? That's what
the glorious education system (in the US at least) teaches every
future worker.
There are a very few people who benefit greatly from everyone working
so hard. I'm really not too concerned with the inequity of wealth
distribution. Yes, it sucks to see failing companies who have
shareholders loosing their shirts pay the CEO millions in salary and
bonuses, but I will leave that problem to politicians, for now.
No, I'm pointing at something bigger. I want you to look at the
companies themselves. Pretty much all companies. Most people don't
really understand companies. Companies exist to organize the actions
of large groups of people to make profits. They collect money, from
all that is outside themselves. In the last few hundred years of
human existence, some companies have done it quite well.
Bigger yet are some ingrained cultural assumptions of "normal life"
that, when examined closely, don't make any sense. The most glaring
senseless assumption is that we should have enormous corporations,
driven solely by profit aggregation, driving the behavior of most
people. It is our current culture that enslaves individuals to a life
we would not choose under different circumstances.
> The last few hundred years is a small speck on the history of human beings.
What is so troubling is that the culture in which we live has been
bent around the assumption that "business is good." Many parts of
what people believe and how they live, shop, spend, etc. are all
directed toward keeping companies growing and profiting. It's not a
conspiracy. No one is engineering the system. However, the trends
are very clear: People are working more than they ever have
in human history, and have a quality of life that is the worst they
have ever experienced. Here again is one of my opinions
that you may not understand or like. I believe it wholeheartedly.
People go to work, they get paid. They work harder, they move up, and
are paid more. But in the end, it is the bottom line of the
company that benefits from all that hard work. Yes, there are
exceptions -- self employed, sole proprietors, partnerships, lots of
exceptions. But its the big and growing companies that garner all the
money and the power to control people's lives. Lately, I've even gone
so far as to think I've answered one of the fundamental questions of
religion and philosophy: "Why are we here?" It would appear, after
long examination, that we are all here to earn money for companies.
The sum total of what we are "supposed" to be doing, as taught by
cultural example, is simply that. It would be a sad legacy for humans
to have come so far on the evolutionary track simply to build big
companies.
To make it worse, people everywhere in our world are completely
miserable with this situation. Ever wonder why we drug ourselves
silly with opiates, designer drugs, alcohol, and other poisons? Ever
stop to consider how many people are depressed? If you are still
reading this thinking, "but I have a great life! I have lots of
money and I can do what ever I want!" ask yourself honestly --"How
many other people lived a miserable existence to put you there?"
Before you start jumping down my throat about things I wrote here, I
do know these are not new ideas, and I certainly don't claim ownership
on many things I have and will present here. What has been so
amazing, is that when I talk to people, most people, sooner or later
understand what I mean. Instinctively, they believe it. Most are
shocked, some are sad. Most can't honestly answer the question
above: Why do people work as much as they do?
of people who have web access and have time to surf make
it very likely you are exactly the right person to read what I have to
say. Please continue.
Let me write it again. You are a slave. If you are like most
people, you probably read that sentence and don't understand it or
believe it. You may think of slaves as African Americans in the
US in the 18th and 19th century, or even in Brazil and Sudan today.
Some of the more educated readers probably know much more about
that kind of slavery and its history than I do... You probably say to
yourself, "I don't feel like a slave. Who is enslaving me? I have
free choice! -- I have real freedoms."
You are not a slave with shackles or chains, but you still cannot get
away. You are abjectly subservient to influences completely beyond
your control, and those influences pervade the thoughts, actions, and
assumptions of everyone around you.
---
Recently I've spent a lot of time
thinking, talking, and learning about human behavior, and
frankly, the conclusions have led me to the simple (and hard to
explain) conclusion that most people are slaves to a way of life that
makes them miserable, and they don't even know it. I'm not sure
where it will go: possibly discussions, reading lists, articles,
feedback -- who knows. I'm looking for input.
I just said people are slaves to "a way of life" above. I'm talking
mostly about western culture; I am a US citizen, and it seems that
western culture is swallowing most of the world. More specifically,
I'm talking about the last 100 - 150 years since major
industrialization occurred in the developed world.
> wage slaves
Let's get more specific. I'm talking about corporations and
marketing. I'm talking about the assumption that companies have to
keep growing or die. I am talking about a completely broken political
system where our leaders and their decision are regularly chosen and
controlled by big money. I am talking about hoards of people taught
to live in a way that makes them miserable within a monetary
system that leaves them no choice but to work far more than they
should.
---
Ask yourself this question:
> Why do people work as much as they do?
There are lots of answers. They have debt. They have to save for
retirement. They have to save for kids' education. They want better
homes, bigger cars, the next PDA. Some even like it. Everyone works;
if you don't work hard, something must be wrong with you. And then --
if you take the argument far enough, I always get, "well, you have to
eat; if you don't work, how are you going to put food on the table?"
For most people in Western culture (you know, the one swallowing
the rest of the world as you read this), its not a question they even
have time to consider. They have to work. They have no choice.
To have a better life, you have to work harder, right? That's what
the glorious education system (in the US at least) teaches every
future worker.
---
There are a very few people who benefit greatly from everyone working
so hard. I'm really not too concerned with the inequity of wealth
distribution. Yes, it sucks to see failing companies who have
shareholders loosing their shirts pay the CEO millions in salary and
bonuses, but I will leave that problem to politicians, for now.
No, I'm pointing at something bigger. I want you to look at the
companies themselves. Pretty much all companies. Most people don't
really understand companies. Companies exist to organize the actions
of large groups of people to make profits. They collect money, from
all that is outside themselves. In the last few hundred years of
human existence, some companies have done it quite well.
Bigger yet are some ingrained cultural assumptions of "normal life"
that, when examined closely, don't make any sense. The most glaring
senseless assumption is that we should have enormous corporations,
driven solely by profit aggregation, driving the behavior of most
people. It is our current culture that enslaves individuals to a life
we would not choose under different circumstances.
> The last few hundred years is a small speck on the history of human beings.
What is so troubling is that the culture in which we live has been
bent around the assumption that "business is good." Many parts of
what people believe and how they live, shop, spend, etc. are all
directed toward keeping companies growing and profiting. It's not a
conspiracy. No one is engineering the system. However, the trends
are very clear: People are working more than they ever have
in human history, and have a quality of life that is the worst they
have ever experienced. Here again is one of my opinions
that you may not understand or like. I believe it wholeheartedly.
---
People go to work, they get paid. They work harder, they move up, and
are paid more. But in the end, it is the bottom line of the
company that benefits from all that hard work. Yes, there are
exceptions -- self employed, sole proprietors, partnerships, lots of
exceptions. But its the big and growing companies that garner all the
money and the power to control people's lives. Lately, I've even gone
so far as to think I've answered one of the fundamental questions of
religion and philosophy: "Why are we here?" It would appear, after
long examination, that we are all here to earn money for companies.
The sum total of what we are "supposed" to be doing, as taught by
cultural example, is simply that. It would be a sad legacy for humans
to have come so far on the evolutionary track simply to build big
companies.
To make it worse, people everywhere in our world are completely
miserable with this situation. Ever wonder why we drug ourselves
silly with opiates, designer drugs, alcohol, and other poisons? Ever
stop to consider how many people are depressed? If you are still
reading this thinking, "but I have a great life! I have lots of
money and I can do what ever I want!" ask yourself honestly --"How
many other people lived a miserable existence to put you there?"
Before you start jumping down my throat about things I wrote here, I
do know these are not new ideas, and I certainly don't claim ownership
on many things I have and will present here. What has been so
amazing, is that when I talk to people, most people, sooner or later
understand what I mean. Instinctively, they believe it. Most are
shocked, some are sad. Most can't honestly answer the question
above: Why do people work as much as they do?
Triptych !!DP4/G/5A6 joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 4 minutes later[^] [v] #92,495
> I am a US citizen
wut
Intredasting. Very much so.
> Ever wonder why we drug ourselves
> silly with opiates, designer drugs, alcohol, and other poisons?
Why do you?
wut
Intredasting. Very much so.
> Ever wonder why we drug ourselves
> silly with opiates, designer drugs, alcohol, and other poisons?
Why do you?
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 8 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #92,498
Anonymous C joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 0 seconds later, 8 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #92,499
Oh, I remember you. You're that really pessimistic guy who thinks that life sucks because we have to work.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 45 seconds later, 8 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #92,500
Anonymous C replied with this 15 years ago, 5 minutes later, 13 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #92,504
@previous (A)
I'm afraid that the cost of being in in a modern society is money, usual money that you've worked for. You could always go live out in the wild, but you'd loose every comfort that society offers, and have to work, in some ways harder, than you would within society.
I'm afraid that the cost of being in in a modern society is money, usual money that you've worked for. You could always go live out in the wild, but you'd loose every comfort that society offers, and have to work, in some ways harder, than you would within society.
(Edited 27 seconds later.)
Triptych !!DP4/G/5A6 replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 17 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #92,509
@92,500 (A)
Studies have shown that Europeans, in general, enjoy working overtime and Americans do not.
Studies have shown that Europeans, in general, enjoy working overtime and Americans do not.
Anonymous D joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 19 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #92,511
Thanks for the copypasta and unnecessary line breaks, OP.
brie !OudrPWaUDQ joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 21 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #92,516
@92,504 (C)
you dont have to completely leave the comforts of modern western society to live for "free".
you dont have to completely leave the comforts of modern western society to live for "free".
Anonymous C replied with this 15 years ago, 6 minutes later, 28 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #92,525
brie !OudrPWaUDQ joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 46 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #92,561
@previous (C)
Basically being a 'homeless' city-dweller.
One could get plenty of the benefits of society, without paying all the money.
Free electricity and Internet access can be had, you can find temporary shelter (pre-built!) and somewhat easily obtain free food. You basically can have all of the benefits, without all the work, if you are willing to live and sleep "on the streets" and accept that some people will think lower of you because of it...
Basically being a 'homeless' city-dweller.
One could get plenty of the benefits of society, without paying all the money.
Free electricity and Internet access can be had, you can find temporary shelter (pre-built!) and somewhat easily obtain free food. You basically can have all of the benefits, without all the work, if you are willing to live and sleep "on the streets" and accept that some people will think lower of you because of it...
Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4 joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 11 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #92,575
Tl;dr lol
swamplights !!V3J448+/B joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #92,577
Anonymous C replied with this 15 years ago, 12 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #92,586
@92,575 (Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4)
Oh the irony.
@92,561 (brie !OudrPWaUDQ)
That's not something that most people will want to do, though. But if your ideological views mean that much to you, then why not?
Oh the irony.
@92,561 (brie !OudrPWaUDQ)
That's not something that most people will want to do, though. But if your ideological views mean that much to you, then why not?
brie !OudrPWaUDQ replied with this 15 years ago, 24 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #92,598
@92,577 (swamplights !!V3J448+/B)
What would you like me to elaborate on?
@previous (C)
Most people are even less willing to go live in the woods, though.
Homelessness isn't always a choice, obviously, but it's really not as bad as it's made out to be.
It's just another niche.
What would you like me to elaborate on?
@previous (C)
Most people are even less willing to go live in the woods, though.
Homelessness isn't always a choice, obviously, but it's really not as bad as it's made out to be.
It's just another niche.
(Edited 1 minute later.)
Anonymous C replied with this 15 years ago, 6 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #92,604
@previous (brie !OudrPWaUDQ)
If a person cared that much, the woods would be freer. You wouldn't need to rely on or be constrained by society.
If a person cared that much, the woods would be freer. You wouldn't need to rely on or be constrained by society.
Anonymous I joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #92,609
> People are working more than they ever have in human history, and have a quality of life that is the worst they
have ever experienced.
Oh okay. Good look convincing the medieval peasant dying of plague at age 15 that. Or maybe one of those 7 year olds that had to work in coal mines in the Victorian age. Or maybe the romans, who lived to age 30.
have ever experienced.
Oh okay. Good look convincing the medieval peasant dying of plague at age 15 that. Or maybe one of those 7 year olds that had to work in coal mines in the Victorian age. Or maybe the romans, who lived to age 30.
(Edited 18 seconds later.)
swamplights !!V3J448+/B replied with this 15 years ago, 24 seconds later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #92,610
brie !OudrPWaUDQ replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #92,612
@92,604 (C)
When I said free, I meant as in 'free beer'.
If you can survive in both environments without using money, how can one be said to be freer than the other?
If you are using free as in 'free from these shackles society has put on me', then yeah living in the woods away from everybody would be freer, but you would likely go mad from seclusion unless you formed your own society of like-minded people. And where there is society, there are rules. You can't avoid it.
@previous (swamplights !!V3J448+/B)
Oh, i reside in a house, currently.
but for street-dwelling, pretty much anything that looks like it will keep you dry, and out of sight makes for good shelter.
When I said free, I meant as in 'free beer'.
If you can survive in both environments without using money, how can one be said to be freer than the other?
If you are using free as in 'free from these shackles society has put on me', then yeah living in the woods away from everybody would be freer, but you would likely go mad from seclusion unless you formed your own society of like-minded people. And where there is society, there are rules. You can't avoid it.
@previous (swamplights !!V3J448+/B)
Oh, i reside in a house, currently.
but for street-dwelling, pretty much anything that looks like it will keep you dry, and out of sight makes for good shelter.
(Edited 4 minutes later.)
Anonymous C replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #92,616
Anonymous I replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #92,619
brie !OudrPWaUDQ replied with this 15 years ago, 4 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #92,622
@previous (I)
The back doorway of a building, an awning, a bridge, etc.
Cities are full of arcitechure that one can sleep under.
Have you never seen a homeless person sleeping before?
The back doorway of a building, an awning, a bridge, etc.
Cities are full of arcitechure that one can sleep under.
Have you never seen a homeless person sleeping before?
Anonymous I replied with this 15 years ago, 2 hours later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #92,695
@previous (brie !OudrPWaUDQ)
No, actually. They're always up and walking about.
Also sounds chilly bro, I'd rather live in a house and not wake up covered in dew.
No, actually. They're always up and walking about.
Also sounds chilly bro, I'd rather live in a house and not wake up covered in dew.
grg !!fERIbUB8u joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 1 hour later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #92,764
> People are working more than they ever have in human history, and have a quality of life that is the worst they have ever experienced.
Those medieval peasants had it so good ;_;
Those medieval peasants had it so good ;_;
grg !!fERIbUB8u double-posted this 15 years ago, 10 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #92,777
KimmoForMod !KIMMO/84s6 joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #92,779
KIMMO FOR MODERATORMister !Bones6oqqQ joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 4 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #92,781
grg !!fERIbUB8u replied with this 15 years ago, 3 hours later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #92,902
Meowth joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 6 minutes later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #92,905
@OPI really don't get where you're going with this. You wish I was a slave and wish I could not get off the internet. You also wish I was under the influence 24/7, however I am not. I don't do shit for work. Nigga, I hustle big. Real big. Don't doubt. To be honest, I could give one shit less about businesses and the economy, because I fight for myself. I do what I do by myself. I will never need anyone else to support me. No matter what I tell elderly people, the truth is, I don't give a fucking shit about getting a job. I don't need a job. I already have a house that's mine. It's ghetto as fuck, but you know what? It's mine. Paid off and all. The only thing I actually have to pay is property tax, which ain't shit. Property tax is the only actual bill that gets me. Internet? I can live without it. That house hasn't had internet since AOL 1.0. Television? Fuck that, we had and still have antennas on our sets. Air conditioning? Nigga, I can stand the heat. I don't know what the fuck I'm saying anymore, but the point is you are a slave. Not I.