Topic: When obama went to kenya and talked about a tradition of treating women like second class citizens
Anonymous A started this discussion 11 years ago#44,269
Did he go too far? I mean of all the problems that Kenya faces, he decides to basically call Kenyan men sexist. I have had some thoughts about it and i think he went way over line, what Kenya is facing is not really the hardships of gender equality but real problems like extreme poverty. All i am saying is that you can have the most feminist country in the world but that country is still going to be poor
as shit if the government is corrupt and can't even afford policemen. Huh, maybe its good that a country can't afford police men since the police is part of the patriarchy right? Thanks.
Do you think more women die in Kenya as a result of sexism rather then extreme poverty or lack of police to protect them from violence?
Anonymous C joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 45 minutes after the original post[^][v]#584,947
kenya gender issues are of a few magnitudes above the whiny identity politics of the west. obama choose that as his point because he's a limp-wristed fag that likes to get pegged by feminists, but not treating their woman like literal garbage is a valid concern, even if it's not the most important one.
this kind of thing makes me think, all these screechy feminists don't move a finger to help women who suffer through very harsh conditions around the world. If they even acknowledge things like the high rates of violent rape, genital mutilation, fistula, etc, in parts of Africa, Asia, Latin America, they only use it to win arguments on the internet or university classroom, and then procceed to forget about it while posting on twitter about how Gamergaters ruined the world, how F**KING PROBLEMATIC fatphobia is and how every woman should know the wonder of freebleeding.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 11 years ago, 2 minutes later, 48 minutes after the original post[^][v]#584,950
I disagree. It is not a gender equality issue nor a feminist issue. It is too damn stupid and unreasonable to think a country where people starve to death has any capability to protect its citizens from violent criminals. So the real issue is poverty.
dw replied with this 11 years ago, 5 minutes later, 53 minutes after the original post[^][v]#584,951
@584,946 (A)
Of course not. What is your point? Would ignoring sexism somehow improve poverty?
dw double-posted this 11 years ago, 26 seconds later, 53 minutes after the original post[^][v]#584,953
@584,950 (A)
You seem to think there can only be one issue in a country.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 55 minutes after the original post[^][v]#584,954
Well you acted like he didn't cross any line. What am i to think when my racist community likes to talk about how all african men treat their women like shit or at least most of them are barbarians who do that.... and feminism hold their hands in support? The only option available is to see people for who they are, so tell me, do you still think Obama wasn't way over line when the only thing he did was criticize kenyan men for being sexist yet not give a damn about their extreme poverty? Really, on what side are you?
dw replied with this 11 years ago, 6 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#584,962
Don't you understand its not an actual physical fucking line its a line between what is acceptable or not. Calling Kenyan men sexist, that is unacceptable. Thinking sexism the major problem that Kenya faces? That ins either stupid or unacceptable. Do you get it now?
Anonymous A (OP) double-posted this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#584,968
Imagine someone visiting Israel and telling all the jewish people that they need to stop being greedy. Sure there are some Jewish people are that greedy, but the very act of visiting Isreal and telling them to stop being greedy fits a certain stereotype does it not? So again, there are sexist men in Kenya as well as sexist women, but not a major group of them are and you have no evidence to suggest that the hardships women face in Kenya is not do to extreme poverty rather then sexism.
Obama does indeed do that, you accused me of thinking that the only problem Kenya faces is poverty, did i actually do that? No i said that the root cause of all the MAJOR issues in Kenya is poverty and that it would be silly to suggest otherwise. Obama did suggest otherwise when he so disrespectfully implied Kenyan men are sexist.
Anonymous A (OP) double-posted this 11 years ago, 52 seconds later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#584,974
> Imagine someone visiting Israel and telling all the jewish people that they need to stop being greedy. Sure there are some Jewish people are that greedy, but the very act of visiting Isreal and telling them to stop being greedy fits a certain stereotype does it not?
Obama did not call anyone sexist though. Even if it did it would not be a baseless racial stereotype.
> So again, there are sexist men in Kenya as well as sexist women, but not a major group of them are and you have no evidence to suggest that the hardships women face in Kenya is not do to extreme poverty rather then sexism.
If they were due to poverty then why would they just happen to women? Did you actually read that report I linked? There is a lot of differentiating between men and women in tge law in Kenya.
> Obama does indeed do that, you accused me of thinking that the only problem Kenya faces is poverty, did i actually do that? No i said that the root cause of all the MAJOR issues in Kenya is poverty and that it would be silly to suggest otherwise. Obama did suggest otherwise when he so disrespectfully implied Kenyan men are sexist.
Where did he imply that?
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 11 years ago, 2 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#584,979
Then maybe you should start a charity protect to create reliable police forces to protect not only women but men as well from violence. That is, if you are really trying to help Kenya but not being absurd with some kind of vague-shitty point?
Anonymous A (OP) double-posted this 11 years ago, 3 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#584,980
Alright so i am not calling all jews greedy, but jews need to stop being greedy. Just like obama is not saying Kenyan men are sexist but that they need to stop being sexist.
> If they were due to poverty then why would they just happen to women?
I don't know if you are smart enough to know this, but extreme poverty means you usually have no way of defending yourself... it means you have no security. Any society with no security for its citizens is going to have crimes committed against them. This isn't rocket science.
> Where did he imply that?
When he visited Kenya and only said that Kenyan men need to stop treating women like second class citizens?
kook !!b4KbSydQS replied with this 11 years ago, 8 seconds later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#584,981
@584,979 (A)
You were vague yourself.
The problem with hiring a police force is that you'd have to pick the candidates from people who have already grown up in that culture.
kook !!b4KbSydQS double-posted this 11 years ago, 31 seconds later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#584,982
> Alright so i am not calling all jews greedy, but jews need to stop being greedy. Just like obama is not saying Kenyan men are sexist but that they need to stop being sexist.
the word sexism was not used in obama's speech
> I don't know if you are smart enough to know this, but extreme poverty means you usually have no way of defending yourself... it means you have no security. Any society with no security for its citizens is going to have crimes committed against them. This isn't rocket science.
i am not talking about crimes by citizens. women are not equal to the law in kenya.
> When he visited Kenya and only said that Kenyan men need to stop treating women like second class citizens?
he implied kenyan men that do that are sexist yeah, do you not think that is sexist? what i was asking about though was
"No i said that the root cause of all the MAJOR issues in Kenya is poverty and that it would be silly to suggest otherwise. Obama did suggest otherwise"
Obama didn't imply sexism is the cause of every issue in Kenya.
kook !!b4KbSydQS replied with this 11 years ago, 5 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#584,989
@584,983 (A)
I meant did he discuss other things besides that?
Also just because it works in some places, doesnt mean that it would work there.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 11 years ago, 24 seconds later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#584,990
> Obama didn't imply sexism is the cause of every issue in Kenya.
So why did he only mention women being treated like second class citizens? I mean don't you think america has its own issues to think about? Like male circumcision?
Anonymous A (OP) double-posted this 11 years ago, 3 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#584,991
> I meant did he discuss other things besides that?
He discussed some things indeed, but the only news that circulated the globe was Obama condemns sexism in Kenya. A man who, authorizes drone strikes on lots of civilians was suddenly praised as the most feminist leader ever. Then there was the underlying tone, that its okay to be racist, as long as you are only racist against men.
> Also just because it works in some places, doesn't mean that it would work there.
Well the thing is that if you pay people to do a certain job, those people will do that job. The only thing that comes in conflict? It is not gender equality but corruption.
Anonymous E joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 2 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#584,992
> I dont think that people can do much for Africa at all.
Fully agreed. So while African people suffer famines and wars, is it not unjustifiable for an american preisdent to travel over there and make some speech that in the end only scores some points with some feminists?
Anonymous E replied with this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#584,996
@584,993 (A)
You can authorize a drone strike and not discriminate by sex at the same time.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 11 years ago, 57 seconds later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#584,997
Yes you can. But ideally, if feminism was a good thing, it would not mean celebrating a murderer for his speech simply because it criticized gender discrimination?
Anonymous F joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 5 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#585,003
ahhhh, the fallacies of comparing oppression to figure out whom is most oppressed and that people X don't deserve liberation because issue Y is more important
Shitty thread OP
kook !!b4KbSydQS replied with this 11 years ago, 48 seconds later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#585,004
@584,995 (A)
Actually probably not. It was pure pr.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#585,005
Well you have a shitty way of understanding the thread. If anything, i am saying that people X do deserve liberation, that Kenyan men DO deserve liberation. As well, the only way to liberate e Figure W is to eradicated poverty.
Anonymous A (OP) double-posted this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#585,006
So the most powerful man on earth (arguably)flew to the most poor parts of earth suffering from famines and corruption, told the men they need to stop being woman haters and then flew away. I mean, i do have a right to consider that a horrible action and am fully justified to be angry about that action as long as i think about it right?
kook !!b4KbSydQS replied with this 11 years ago, 10 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#585,010
@previous (A)
You have the right to have any emotion, but yeah it was a publicity stunt.
We should really stop all aide as well.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 11 years ago, 3 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#585,012
I have the right to have an emotion... you might as well have said no but anyway... when it comes to aid its a complex issue, aid or charity is becoming more or less a way for us to stop thinking about the underlying issues that are causing all this need for aid and charity. I don't pretend to know it, but i do know that we should really start thinking about the causes and some times
the causes are well known. The west allows private companies to buy minerals from war lords in congo, war lords that do not pay tax, recruits child soldiers, and fights for control.
kook !!b4KbSydQS replied with this 11 years ago, 9 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#585,013
@previous (A)
I was agreeing with you, relax dude.
I think that we should go there and murder enough of the adult males as needed, until the country becomes docile. We'd need to choose from males between the ages of 15 and 55. The females can be kept and trained as cooks, and learn various useful skills.
Anonymous G joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 25 seconds later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#585,014
It's so typically American to lecture the world about its treatment of people, all the while invading countries, killing innocents, having a police state, etc.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 11 years ago, 8 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#585,015
Oh.... sorry. Murder won't solve a god damn thing and of all the problems that Africa faces, poor cooking skills is not one of them so screw that plan for women. No, i hope for a generation of women
who truly are matriarchal, women who truly do think it is their job to be the main providers of men and boys. However that is unreasonable, women have to deal with child birth and since new generations of children is important for any society at all, it is us men and boys who should provide for the women and girls. Peace, i am out.
kook !!b4KbSydQS replied with this 11 years ago, 9 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#585,021
@previous (A)
No I literally want to turn whole countries in Africa into tourist destinations. Eliminating much of the population eases the strain on resorces, and also allows for less people who will fight back or attempt to disrupt the training services.
We need to take out at least a third of all males between 15 and 55. The women and children left over will cook, clean, and do everything that it takes to run this themepark. The particularly smart ones will receive non tourist related education and the elderly get their own area where they look after small children, and work on folksy handmade crafts to sell to visitors
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 1 hour later, 5 hours after the original post[^][v]#585,037
ITT: Iceland guy has come to believe that saying anything at all against sexism makes you a whiner who can't focus on the "real" issues.
Anonymous I joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 17 hours later, 22 hours after the original post[^][v]#585,248
@585,015 (A) > women who truly do think it is their job to be the main providers of men and boys.
They already do. Women in developing nations typically hold down two jobs and maintain a family. They're more or less on call 24/7, while their menfolk live off their earnings and contribute very little by comparison.
(Edited 23 seconds later.)
kook !!b4KbSydQS replied with this 11 years ago, 14 minutes later, 22 hours after the original post[^][v]#585,251
@previous (I)
I've seen that a lot. they sit around and drink booze or tea, smoke or chew betel or coca, and gamble. Not in Asian countries, but definitely Middle Eastern and African.
Anonymous J joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 9 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#585,315
dw is my hero
hater !JGlOo5d1iU joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 2 days later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#586,013
Obama panders heavily to the feminist blogosphere, yes, cultures have different norms, and because in the US we view certain gender norms as harmful against women because of the current zeitgeist. That does not mean you go into less civilized areas and promote the same type of society. You let them figure shit out. There's no single right way. Look at what works for Isis, that's completely different than what goes on in the US and girls are flocking to live in that society from all over the world!