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Minichan

Topic: Trying to replace capitalism is hard.

Anonymous A started this discussion 11 years ago #44,029

Have you ever wondered if somehow things could be run better and more ethically then how capitalism does the show? I have. Its very hard to even imagine such a system, because you have spent so long inside capitalism that you can't imagine a society without it, maybe only superficially. You just imagine that everyone does what they do now minus the bad. It doesn't work that way. All i know is that right now i am on a computer and you who sees this are on some kind of a computer as well. Computer made with minerals that came from some little African slave boy in congo, wasting his youth to serve some war lord. Meanwhile we talk about oh SJW this or that blablabla. Thanks.

Anonymous B joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 10 minutes later[^] [v] #581,787

in b4 impassioned libertarian claims that capitalism would build utopias if only government would stop intervening

Anonymous C joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 3 minutes later, 13 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #581,788

> Have you ever wondered if somehow things could be run better and more ethically then how capitalism does the show?

Yes but then everyone will have to think and believe in the same things.

Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 15 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #581,789

@previous (C)

There will always be conflict, i am not saying there exists a utopian way to run things. However i think its time we make a better way to run it all

Metæ joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 9 minutes later, 25 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #581,790

@581,787 (B)
I like the utopias Marxism-Leninism built.

(Edited 15 seconds later.)

Anonymous B replied with this 11 years ago, 2 minutes later, 27 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #581,792

@previous (Metæ)
~utopiae

Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4 joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 2 minutes later, 29 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #581,793

You'll never replace capitalism, because capitalism is not a "system", capitalism is the lack of a system. It's the idea that people act rationally and do whatever is in their best interest. You're never going to stop people from trying to maximize the benefits of their actions, and I don't see why you would want to. This desire maximizes wealth and efficiency in our society.

Metæ replied with this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 30 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #581,794

@581,792 (B)
æ*

Anonymous B replied with this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 32 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #581,795

@previous (Metæ)
~æ™

RWBY Rhubarb !!iNo3FkiZx joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 33 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #581,798

@581,789 (A)
Okay then- let's draft something ITT and present it to some governments. Hopefully, we'll come up with something good and the capitalist countries will switch over to it.

Metæ replied with this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 35 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #581,801

@previous (RWBY Rhubarb !!iNo3FkiZx)
I want Green as finance minister.

Anonymous G joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 4 minutes later, 40 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #581,803

I think basic income will replace capitalism once robots replace most humans at most jobs...

RWBY Rhubarb !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 11 years ago, 15 minutes later, 55 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #581,805

@581,801 (Metæ)
Agreed. His plans for a cider-based economy are revolutionary.

Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 11 years ago, 4 hours later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #581,940

@581,793 (Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4)

I thought this thread was useless and would not lead to anything but you know broseph, you changed that. Capitalism is actually a system, how to turn a profit? With a system that maximizes profit. It can be efficient but in what actual terms? That its better then socialism? Just because you are better then your loser brother (socialism) doesn't mean you aren't a loser (capitalism).

I sure do know that when people poison baby formula for extra profit, and babies die, then surely there is no efficiency in that.

FuckAlms !vX8K53rFBI joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 10 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #581,951

@previous (A)
Population control.

Syntax joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 5 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #581,954

@OP

Perhaps you missed USA 60 minutes last Sunday. The Mountain Pass rare earth mine in sunny California - No african slaves
The Mountain Pass deposit is in a 1.4 billion year old Precambrian carbonatite intruded into gneiss, and contains 8% to 12% rare earth oxides, mostly contained in the mineral bastnäsite. Gangue minerals include calcite, barite, and dolomite. It is regarded as a world-class rare-earth mineral deposit. The metals that can be extracted from it include:

Cerium
Lanthanum
Neodymium
Europium

Known remaining reserves were estimated to exceed 20 million tons of ore as of 2008, using a 5% cutoff grade, and averaging 8.9% rare earth oxides.

Anonymous J joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 2 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #581,958

@581,793 (Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4)
Capitalism wasn't around during caveman days.

Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #581,959

@581,954 (Syntax)

Those are not the minerals that congo mostly produces (i think) but what does it matter really? You can buy clothes made by some fair trade organization but the fact is that most do not because the ones produced in slave conditions are more cheap.

RWBY Rhubarb !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #581,962

@581,958 (J)
Source?

Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #581,963

@previous (RWBY Rhubarb !!iNo3FkiZx)

lol

Syntax replied with this 11 years ago, 5 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #581,965

@581,962 (RWBY Rhubarb !!iNo3FkiZx)
Yea I needed to look at origins of Capitalism and then if I could relate it to Caveman existence.
> Capital is a type of good that can be consumed now

So I can see Caveman group A trading some Kill for something of value from group B - However history says its origin is Middle ages.

Syntax double-posted this 11 years ago, 2 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #581,966

@581,959 (A)
Actually the mine I cited was the origins of rare earths but is currently on its 2nd life after environmental death and is again on brink of fail re Chinese owing the Slave trade mines in Africa

Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 11 years ago, 10 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #581,971

@previous (Syntax)

owing the slave trade mines is africa? You mean owning? Well not that shit in Congo, one of the reason congo is so fucked up is because nobody really owns the minerals, so they are fought after by war lords. Congo could become such a better country if nobody bought these minerals, but you know capitalism, its about profit not ethics.

Syntax replied with this 11 years ago, 3 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #581,974

@previous (A)
Someone on TC just asked me if and where I have been in Africa - Wanted 2 but never got 2 Congo Not even close - and yes Owning -

(Edited 21 seconds later.)

Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 11 years ago, 4 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #581,975

@previous (Syntax)

I don't think i would survive long in Congo, most would not probably. Nha if you want to take a tour in misery that the world seems to bee unable to do anything about? Visit North Korea. Some say itsu unethical to visit the place since tourism supports the regime there, however by visiting you are exposing people to outside influence and therefor un-brainwashing them.

Its like 30+ is my room right now. Taking a break, thanks for all the replies guys!

Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4 replied with this 11 years ago, 1 hour later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #581,996

@581,958 (J)
Technically, it was.

kook !!mCVqftDha joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 3 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #581,998

@581,958 (J)
Is trading things for goods and services capitalism?

Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4 replied with this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #581,999

@581,940 (A)
Is not a system in the sense that there are no laws or regulations in place saying that you have to maximize profit. People just want to maximize profit. They're are no laws in place saying that the loser had to be a total loser, there are just no laws or regulations propping the loser up. Capitalism is letting the dice lie where they fall. It does create efficiency and wealth, even if sometimes people suffer for that efficiency.

(Edited 24 seconds later.)

Anonymous J replied with this 11 years ago, 24 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #582,006

@581,998 (kook !!mCVqftDha)
It's bartering.

kook !!mCVqftDha replied with this 11 years ago, 7 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #582,009

@previous (J)
I know but bartering seems like a form of capitalism.

Anonymous L joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 20 minutes later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #582,011

didn't read

FuckAlms !vX8K53rFBI replied with this 11 years ago, 1 hour later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #582,024

@582,009 (kook !!mCVqftDha)
bartering is mutually beneficial rather than being driven by each person's own interest

squeegee joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 1 hour later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #582,033

@previous (FuckAlms !vX8K53rFBI)
idk, i can still rip people off in a barter. "you get what you trade for" is something you might hear at a swap meet.

kook !!mCVqftDha replied with this 11 years ago, 14 minutes later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #582,035

@582,024 (FuckAlms !vX8K53rFBI)
But buying most things are beneficial to both parties.

squeegee replied with this 11 years ago, 3 minutes later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #582,037

capitalism is just "free trade". trade for money, trade for barter. just free trade.

The Owl !KThEOwLwbU joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 2 minutes later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #582,039

@582,035 (kook !!mCVqftDha)

Yeah but barter systems are different from capitalism because the latter requires capital investment so people can get profit from their wealth, which requires a monetary system

kook !!mCVqftDha replied with this 11 years ago, 33 minutes later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #582,047

@previous (The Owl !KThEOwLwbU)
But couldn't you do that without currency?

The Owl !KThEOwLwbU replied with this 11 years ago, 32 minutes later, 12 hours after the original post[^] [v] #582,048

@previous (kook !!mCVqftDha)

What would you invest?

kook !!mCVqftDha replied with this 11 years ago, 4 minutes later, 12 hours after the original post[^] [v] #582,051

@previous (The Owl !KThEOwLwbU)
You could collect valuable objects. Enough chickens put togther could be traded for a cow. Baby calves could be exchanged for work on a house. You could let people live in that house as long as they raise the animals.

(Edited 1 minute later.)

The Owl !KThEOwLwbU replied with this 11 years ago, 8 minutes later, 12 hours after the original post[^] [v] #582,053

@previous (kook !!mCVqftDha)

That's not capital investment though that's just swapping things!

So instead of swapping chickens for a calf, you swap chickens in return for part ownership of a cow farm

Which involves some kind of standard reckoning upon which the value of all things is compared eg gold

and since people swap chickens for cows you get to keep a certain number of those chickens

So what I mean is you can't invest in a barter economy but you can in a capitalist economy

(Edited 1 minute later.)

kook !!mCVqftDha replied with this 11 years ago, 8 minutes later, 12 hours after the original post[^] [v] #582,055

@previous (The Owl !KThEOwLwbU)
I see no difference. People swap money for goods but you still get to keep part of that money.

The Owl !KThEOwLwbU replied with this 11 years ago, 12 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #582,224

@previous (kook !!mCVqftDha)

You don't see a difference between swapping one item for another item and using wealth to invest in a company?

Whatever

kook !!mCVqftDha replied with this 11 years ago, 15 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #582,230

@previous (The Owl !KThEOwLwbU)
No I dont

The Owl !KThEOwLwbU replied with this 11 years ago, 18 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #582,237

@previous (kook !!mCVqftDha)

Well there is one
:

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