Topic: Republican candidate for US President calls church shooting an "accident"
beckyderp !4aMoRa.T2Q started this discussion 11 years ago #43,165
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/06/rick-perry-charleston-massacre-was-an-accident-caused-by-drugs-not-guns/Rick Perry, the former Texas governor and current Republican presidential candidate, described the mass shootings of nine black worshipers by an apparent white supremacist as an “accident” caused by drug abuse.
The GOP candidate appeared Friday on Steve Malzberg’s Newsmax TV program to complain that President Barack Obama had already politicized the massacre at the Charleston, South Carolina, church in his ongoing effort to restrict gun rights, reported Right Wing Watch.
“This is the (modus operandi) of this administration, any time there is an accident like this,” Perry said. “The president is clear, he doesn’t like for Americans to have guns and so he uses every opportunity, this being another one, to basically go parrot that message.”
Malzberg, who on Thursday hosted a frequent Fox News guest who said whites would likely kill even more blacks if Obama keeps calling them racist, asked Perry whether the massacre was an act of terror.
“I don’t know, but I think the facts, once we get them – there were more people than that killed in Paris,” he said, stalling first and then changing the subject to the Charlie Hebdo attacks, which claimed 12 lives. “This was a crime of hate – we know that.”
He then changed the subject to prescription drug use – which he said may have been to blame for the massacre.
“It seems to me, again without having all the details about this, that these individuals have been medicated and there may be a real issue in this country from the standpoint of these drugs and how they’re used,” Perry said.
The GOP candidate appeared Friday on Steve Malzberg’s Newsmax TV program to complain that President Barack Obama had already politicized the massacre at the Charleston, South Carolina, church in his ongoing effort to restrict gun rights, reported Right Wing Watch.
“This is the (modus operandi) of this administration, any time there is an accident like this,” Perry said. “The president is clear, he doesn’t like for Americans to have guns and so he uses every opportunity, this being another one, to basically go parrot that message.”
Malzberg, who on Thursday hosted a frequent Fox News guest who said whites would likely kill even more blacks if Obama keeps calling them racist, asked Perry whether the massacre was an act of terror.
“I don’t know, but I think the facts, once we get them – there were more people than that killed in Paris,” he said, stalling first and then changing the subject to the Charlie Hebdo attacks, which claimed 12 lives. “This was a crime of hate – we know that.”
He then changed the subject to prescription drug use – which he said may have been to blame for the massacre.
“It seems to me, again without having all the details about this, that these individuals have been medicated and there may be a real issue in this country from the standpoint of these drugs and how they’re used,” Perry said.
squeegee joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 17 minutes later[^] [v] #571,042
wait, wait, wait... so it wasn't the guns. it was the prescription meds?
guns don't kill people. Prescription medications do. wait... that doesn't... that doesn't make any fucking sense.
guns don't kill people. Prescription medications do. wait... that doesn't... that doesn't make any fucking sense.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 19 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #571,043
They really don't want any blame put onto the guns, do they? Not even one little bit.
squeegee replied with this 11 years ago, 47 seconds later, 20 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #571,044
i guess he accidentally reloaded 5 times too. man, we need to ban prescription meds, they're making guns look bad.
squeegee double-posted this 11 years ago, 2 minutes later, 23 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #571,047
@571,043 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
no, the real problem is something else, obviously. we just need to find the common link between these violent crimes. but that's way harder said than done.
no, the real problem is something else, obviously. we just need to find the common link between these violent crimes. but that's way harder said than done.
Anonymous D joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 3 minutes later, 26 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #571,048
We need guns in churches
Metæ joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 24 minutes later, 51 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #571,049
@571,047 (squeegee)
You're right, SSRIs have never been linked to violent behavior or personality changes.
You're right, SSRIs have never been linked to violent behavior or personality changes.
Xiaoqing Yan joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 29 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #571,054
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 11 years ago, 1 hour later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #571,062
@571,049 (Metæ)
Is it so bad to admit that, perhaps, having lots of guns in the country has inherent downsides? Or even that gun laws could maybe be refined to keep guns away from people like this?
Is it so bad to admit that, perhaps, having lots of guns in the country has inherent downsides? Or even that gun laws could maybe be refined to keep guns away from people like this?
(Edited 11 seconds later.)
kook !!mCVqftDha joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 4 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #571,063
Anonymous H joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 12 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #571,070
@previous (kook !!mCVqftDha)
The only connection between him and prescription meds that I turned up is in a Mother Jones article that states: "Roof was arrested in March at the Columbiana Centre, a mall in Columbia, and charged with possession of suboxone" which is a narcotic painkiller.
Also, found this on Gawker. A classmate says he abused prescription pills a lot. I don't know how true it is though because Gawker, hearsay, etc.
The only connection between him and prescription meds that I turned up is in a Mother Jones article that states: "Roof was arrested in March at the Columbiana Centre, a mall in Columbia, and charged with possession of suboxone" which is a narcotic painkiller.
Also, found this on Gawker. A classmate says he abused prescription pills a lot. I don't know how true it is though because Gawker, hearsay, etc.
(Edited 7 minutes later.)
beckyderp !4aMoRa.T2Q (OP) replied with this 11 years ago, 1 hour later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #571,079
Metæ replied with this 11 years ago, 1 hour later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #571,089
@571,054 (Xiaoqing Yan)
No, I mean these damn Scientologists keep trying to frame innocent, harmless psych drugs.
@previous (beckyderp !4aMoRa.T2Q)
It's completely true; my psychiatrist said so and he has an M.D. after his name.
@571,062 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
Exactly. If you look in the old days (before gun laws) people were getting slaughtered on a nonstop basis. Clearly, gun laws have reduced firearm homicides.
No, I mean these damn Scientologists keep trying to frame innocent, harmless psych drugs.
@previous (beckyderp !4aMoRa.T2Q)
It's completely true; my psychiatrist said so and he has an M.D. after his name.
@571,062 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
Exactly. If you look in the old days (before gun laws) people were getting slaughtered on a nonstop basis. Clearly, gun laws have reduced firearm homicides.
Metæ double-posted this 11 years ago, 4 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #571,090
Don't get me wrong: Rick Perry is an ass and I hate him as much as the next hipster liberal, but there seems to be a clear link between SSRIs and violent behavior.
kook !!mCVqftDha replied with this 11 years ago, 1 hour later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #571,099
@previous (Metæ)
People have been horribly mean to his parents, even though he's 21 and has admitted that he wasnt raised to be a racist.
People have been horribly mean to his parents, even though he's 21 and has admitted that he wasnt raised to be a racist.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 11 years ago, 1 hour later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #571,110
@571,089 (Metæ)
Oh don't be like that. I think you understand what I'm saying, that it's silly to desperately try to deflect any and all blame from anything gun-related, and displace it onto just about anything else.
@571,090 (Metæ)
I'm not seeing "violent urges" on the list of SSRI side-effects.
Could you, perhaps, provide an objective source for this "clear link"? Statistics? A scientific study, maybe?
Oh don't be like that. I think you understand what I'm saying, that it's silly to desperately try to deflect any and all blame from anything gun-related, and displace it onto just about anything else.
@571,090 (Metæ)
I'm not seeing "violent urges" on the list of SSRI side-effects.
Could you, perhaps, provide an objective source for this "clear link"? Statistics? A scientific study, maybe?
Anonymous H replied with this 11 years ago, 21 minutes later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #571,113
@571,089 (Metæ)
What are "the old days"? Which gun laws are you referring to? Are you trying to compare modern cities of millions of people to the old west again?
What are "the old days"? Which gun laws are you referring to? Are you trying to compare modern cities of millions of people to the old west again?
Anonymous I joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #571,114
The gunshots in church were a choir of freedom, singing their glory. May the guns sing on and on, we shall shoot on the beaches, we shall shoot on the landing grounds, we shall shoot in the fields and in the streets, we shall shoot in the hills; we shall never surrender, and if, which I do not for a moment believe, this land or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our lands beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the second amendment, would carry on the shooting, until, in God's good time, the Free World, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of us all.
The Owl !KThEOwLwbU joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #571,115
@571,110 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
They warned me when I went on them that it could temporarily worsen my depression and cause suicidal feelings, maybe that's what he is talking about
They warned me when I went on them that it could temporarily worsen my depression and cause suicidal feelings, maybe that's what he is talking about
Anonymous H replied with this 11 years ago, 3 minutes later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #571,116
Is there a source that says he was on SSRIs? I get they can worsen depression in some individuals, but was he taking them?
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 11 years ago, 20 minutes later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #571,122
@571,115 (The Owl !KThEOwLwbU)
"Worsened depression" doesn't sound like "homocidal urges" to me. Granted, that might tip someone over the edge, but if assume they'd have to be pretty fucked up to begin with.
"Worsened depression" doesn't sound like "homocidal urges" to me. Granted, that might tip someone over the edge, but if assume they'd have to be pretty fucked up to begin with.
The Owl !KThEOwLwbU replied with this 11 years ago, 18 minutes later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #571,123
@previous (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
Suicidal urges could be expressed through a mass shooting in the hopes of a suicide by cop
I bet he browsed /pol/
Suicidal urges could be expressed through a mass shooting in the hopes of a suicide by cop
I bet he browsed /pol/
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 11 years ago, 11 minutes later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #571,125
@previous (The Owl !KThEOwLwbU)
Still, I would think that shooting up a bunch of people rather than just offing yourself still indicates a more fundamental problem.
Also, that wouldn't surprise me. That place is awful.
Still, I would think that shooting up a bunch of people rather than just offing yourself still indicates a more fundamental problem.
Also, that wouldn't surprise me. That place is awful.
Anonymous H replied with this 11 years ago, 7 minutes later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #571,126
@previous (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
> Still, I would think that shooting up a bunch of people rather than just offing yourself still indicates a more fundamental problem.
I would agree. The guy had issues.
I feel it's important to note that no actual connection between any drug use, Dylan Roof's racial bigotry, or the mass murder he perpetrated has been established. He may have been racist long before he started taking anything. He may have been popping pain meds, but did he have crazy feelings about killing people before he was self-medicating with pain meds or did pain meds trigger him to finally do it? In other words: Was he depressed and doing drugs as a result or was he depressed as a result of doing drugs? I haven't seen any clear answers on that front. People are trying desperately to draw a solid conclusion based on mere hearsay. Saying someone is an addict and then blaming all their bad decisions on that is intellectually lazy. Maybe they were taking drugs as a result of some root cause that caused them to feel depressed or start hating themselves or fall into a self-aggrandizing, racist philosophy; they just didn't feel like they mattered enough? It's, at best, unclear. As far as the interview goes, I feel like Rick Perry was just trying to find something else to talk about besides massacres and gun policy. As far as the shooter is concerned: Southern culture may have played a role, his homelife probably played a role, his interactions with his peers may have played a role, his own decisions and the availability of guns certainly played a role. I don't think we can blame any one factor and say that it was the one cause for this.
Did the Columbine shooters watch The Matrix or play violent video games too much? Was that the cause? Are we seriously having this discussion again? Does everyone have to be influenced by some single-factor trigger? No one just grows crazy organically due to fucked-up life experiences or falling in with the wrong ideals any more? I think everyone is trying to find that some-one-thing to vilify and a lot of talking heads are trying to do it along political lines.
> Still, I would think that shooting up a bunch of people rather than just offing yourself still indicates a more fundamental problem.
I would agree. The guy had issues.
I feel it's important to note that no actual connection between any drug use, Dylan Roof's racial bigotry, or the mass murder he perpetrated has been established. He may have been racist long before he started taking anything. He may have been popping pain meds, but did he have crazy feelings about killing people before he was self-medicating with pain meds or did pain meds trigger him to finally do it? In other words: Was he depressed and doing drugs as a result or was he depressed as a result of doing drugs? I haven't seen any clear answers on that front. People are trying desperately to draw a solid conclusion based on mere hearsay. Saying someone is an addict and then blaming all their bad decisions on that is intellectually lazy. Maybe they were taking drugs as a result of some root cause that caused them to feel depressed or start hating themselves or fall into a self-aggrandizing, racist philosophy; they just didn't feel like they mattered enough? It's, at best, unclear. As far as the interview goes, I feel like Rick Perry was just trying to find something else to talk about besides massacres and gun policy. As far as the shooter is concerned: Southern culture may have played a role, his homelife probably played a role, his interactions with his peers may have played a role, his own decisions and the availability of guns certainly played a role. I don't think we can blame any one factor and say that it was the one cause for this.
Did the Columbine shooters watch The Matrix or play violent video games too much? Was that the cause? Are we seriously having this discussion again? Does everyone have to be influenced by some single-factor trigger? No one just grows crazy organically due to fucked-up life experiences or falling in with the wrong ideals any more? I think everyone is trying to find that some-one-thing to vilify and a lot of talking heads are trying to do it along political lines.
Anonymous K joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 10 minutes later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #571,128
1,000 police shootings/killings of unarmed citizens every year. Thousands of gun murders, dozens of mass shootings. Solution? More guns!
Anonymous D replied with this 11 years ago, 7 minutes later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #571,130
Anonymous H replied with this 11 years ago, 7 minutes later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #571,131
Anonymous D replied with this 11 years ago, 17 minutes later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #571,136
Anonymous H replied with this 11 years ago, 5 minutes later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #571,138
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 11 years ago, 14 minutes later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #571,139
Before this guy, there was also the Republican presidential candidate who said that "homosexuality is a choice because prison sex".
Goddamn, the Republican party is scary.
@571,126 (H)
Good post. You may have an upvote.
In regards to the politicians, I guess they're treating it like thst because it's easier for the public to swallow. I can see how blaming it on one or two tangible, immediate factors would be better received than saying it's because of a very broad, vague set of factors that can't really be controlled for.
Goddamn, the Republican party is scary.
@571,126 (H)
Good post. You may have an upvote.
In regards to the politicians, I guess they're treating it like thst because it's easier for the public to swallow. I can see how blaming it on one or two tangible, immediate factors would be better received than saying it's because of a very broad, vague set of factors that can't really be controlled for.
vocalon !74TdoRkjCc joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 7 hours later, 19 hours after the original post[^] [v] #571,244
have you read his manifestos bc
“I have no choice. I am not in the position to, alone, go into the ghetto and fight. I chose Charleston because it is most historic city in my state, and at one time had the highest ratio of blacks to Whites in the country. We have no skinheads, no real KKK, no one doing anything but talking on the internet. Well someone has to have the bravery to take it to the real world, and I guess that has to be me.”
kook !!mCVqftDha replied with this 11 years ago, 15 minutes later, 19 hours after the original post[^] [v] #571,251
He's also a communist. Maybe that caused the shootings.
Anonymous I replied with this 11 years ago, 2 minutes later, 19 hours after the original post[^] [v] #571,253
it was his penis that did it
kook !!mCVqftDha replied with this 11 years ago, 5 minutes later, 19 hours after the original post[^] [v] #571,255
Xiaoqing Yan replied with this 11 years ago, 1 hour later, 20 hours after the original post[^] [v] #571,275
The Owl !KThEOwLwbU replied with this 11 years ago, 1 hour later, 22 hours after the original post[^] [v] #571,283
@571,251 (kook !!mCVqftDha)
If he is an actual communist then he should feel solidarity with his oppressed comrades, not murdering them because of his skin colour
> no one doing anything but talking on the internet
/pol/tard confirmed
If he is an actual communist then he should feel solidarity with his oppressed comrades, not murdering them because of his skin colour
> no one doing anything but talking on the internet
/pol/tard confirmed
kook !!mCVqftDha replied with this 11 years ago, 6 minutes later, 22 hours after the original post[^] [v] #571,285
The Owl !KThEOwLwbU replied with this 11 years ago, 21 minutes later, 22 hours after the original post[^] [v] #571,290
@previous (kook !!mCVqftDha)
It's only a NTS when the argument is amended without a reason, in an attempt to retain the original argument. The basic rule of Communism is solidarity amongst the workers, though. If he wasn't doing that, then he wasn't a proper communist.
It's only a NTS when the argument is amended without a reason, in an attempt to retain the original argument. The basic rule of Communism is solidarity amongst the workers, though. If he wasn't doing that, then he wasn't a proper communist.
Metæ replied with this 11 years ago, 4 minutes later, 22 hours after the original post[^] [v] #571,291
@571,110 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
https://healthland.time.com/2011/01/07/top-ten-legal-drugs-linked-to-violence/
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/obsessively-yours/201212/newtown-shootings-caution-about-violence-and-ssris
Also, in this country at least, antidepressants now have a mandatory warning about the risks of increased suicidal ideation in young people. These drugs seem to cause some people to snap. I don't know if this Dylann Roof guy was on antidepressants or not but in the wake of a shooting everyone cries out for more mental health treatment which usually means more pills.
@571,113 (H)
The old days (in terms of gun control) would be pre-1967 I'd say. Would you care to provide any sort of data about crime rates in the "old west"? Do you think the Hollywood image of it is accurate?
@571,110 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
I see guns as inanimate objects. Guns kill people the same way hammers build houses or forks cause obesity. There's too much focus on how but not why.
https://healthland.time.com/2011/01/07/top-ten-legal-drugs-linked-to-violence/
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/obsessively-yours/201212/newtown-shootings-caution-about-violence-and-ssris
Also, in this country at least, antidepressants now have a mandatory warning about the risks of increased suicidal ideation in young people. These drugs seem to cause some people to snap. I don't know if this Dylann Roof guy was on antidepressants or not but in the wake of a shooting everyone cries out for more mental health treatment which usually means more pills.
@571,113 (H)
The old days (in terms of gun control) would be pre-1967 I'd say. Would you care to provide any sort of data about crime rates in the "old west"? Do you think the Hollywood image of it is accurate?
@571,110 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
I see guns as inanimate objects. Guns kill people the same way hammers build houses or forks cause obesity. There's too much focus on how but not why.
Metæ double-posted this 11 years ago, 4 minutes later, 22 hours after the original post[^] [v] #571,292
@571,126 (H)It's the "one simple trick" mentality. We just have to find the one weird old tip to stop violence and have a tiny belly and make a killing at penny stocks.
kook !!mCVqftDha replied with this 11 years ago, 5 minutes later, 22 hours after the original post[^] [v] #571,293
@571,290 (The Owl !KThEOwLwbU)
Most people aren't proper communists, are proper Christians, or proper Republicans. He is still a communist and maybe it has something to do with the shooting.
Most people aren't proper communists, are proper Christians, or proper Republicans. He is still a communist and maybe it has something to do with the shooting.
kook !!mCVqftDha double-posted this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 22 hours after the original post[^] [v] #571,294
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 11 years ago, 16 minutes later, 23 hours after the original post[^] [v] #571,298
@571,291 (Metæ)
As I said, psychiatric drugs can be a contributing factor, yes. But I think they're usually a secondary cause, on top of more longstanding ones like a bad childhood or serve mental problems.
So, you don't think the "how "is at all important? The methodology is irrelevant? Yes they're inanimate objects, yet they make it very easy to carry out a spree killing. Just point and click and you can seriously injure somebody very quickly. It's certainly not as easy with a melee weapon. No physical strength or chasing required. They're a big reason why some of these spree killers are so successful.
Why is it so abhorrent to admit that having these extremely convenient means of killing widely available is going to lead to more successful and more frequent spree killings? I'm not even trying to say "ban the guns", here. I'm just pointing out that they're a big factor in these crimes, and trying to divert any and all blame from them doesn't make sense.
As I said, psychiatric drugs can be a contributing factor, yes. But I think they're usually a secondary cause, on top of more longstanding ones like a bad childhood or serve mental problems.
So, you don't think the "how "is at all important? The methodology is irrelevant? Yes they're inanimate objects, yet they make it very easy to carry out a spree killing. Just point and click and you can seriously injure somebody very quickly. It's certainly not as easy with a melee weapon. No physical strength or chasing required. They're a big reason why some of these spree killers are so successful.
Why is it so abhorrent to admit that having these extremely convenient means of killing widely available is going to lead to more successful and more frequent spree killings? I'm not even trying to say "ban the guns", here. I'm just pointing out that they're a big factor in these crimes, and trying to divert any and all blame from them doesn't make sense.
kook !!mCVqftDha replied with this 11 years ago, 2 minutes later, 23 hours after the original post[^] [v] #571,299
@previous (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
I agree completely. Guns make certain crimes easier to commit. That can't be denied.
I agree completely. Guns make certain crimes easier to commit. That can't be denied.
Metæ replied with this 11 years ago, 1 hour later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #571,335
@571,298 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
I mean, the how is important but there seems to be no insight into why. Just "if guns were banned he wouldn't have shot up the church" which is, I suppose true but he still could have bombed it or ran them down in the parking lot with his car or poisoned the food at a banquet or who even knows what. To me, the why is more important than what tools he used.
I mean, the how is important but there seems to be no insight into why. Just "if guns were banned he wouldn't have shot up the church" which is, I suppose true but he still could have bombed it or ran them down in the parking lot with his car or poisoned the food at a banquet or who even knows what. To me, the why is more important than what tools he used.
kook !!mCVqftDha replied with this 11 years ago, 14 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #571,338
@previous (Metæ)
Yes I agree with that. Guns didnt make him commit the crime, it just made it easier to do.
Yes I agree with that. Guns didnt make him commit the crime, it just made it easier to do.
beckyderp !4aMoRa.T2Q (OP) replied with this 11 years ago, 8 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #571,339
@571,335 (Metæ)
But what can you do about the "why"? The "how" is pretty easy to fix, and pretty much every enlightened nation has done it. The data does not lie. Our problem is the guns.
But what can you do about the "why"? The "how" is pretty easy to fix, and pretty much every enlightened nation has done it. The data does not lie. Our problem is the guns.
Anonymous D replied with this 11 years ago, 28 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #571,341
beckyderp !4aMoRa.T2Q (OP) replied with this 11 years ago, 3 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #571,343
Metæ replied with this 11 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #571,344
@571,339 (beckyderp !4aMoRa.T2Q)
America is actually 28th in firearm homicides per capita. Interestingly, a lot of countries with much tighter gun laws than America (like Mexico, Jamaica, Zimbabwe, and South Africa) have much higher homicide rates, and some outliers like Lichtenstein and St. Kitts and Nevis where the population is so small one murder throws the numbers way off.
I agree guns definitely facilitate violence but I don't think they cause violence. And of course there are countries like Switzerland and Israel where everyone has to go into the military and get to keep their guns at home.
America is actually 28th in firearm homicides per capita. Interestingly, a lot of countries with much tighter gun laws than America (like Mexico, Jamaica, Zimbabwe, and South Africa) have much higher homicide rates, and some outliers like Lichtenstein and St. Kitts and Nevis where the population is so small one murder throws the numbers way off.
I agree guns definitely facilitate violence but I don't think they cause violence. And of course there are countries like Switzerland and Israel where everyone has to go into the military and get to keep their guns at home.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 11 years ago, 41 seconds later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #571,345
@571,335 (Metæ)
I think anonymous H had it right. The "why" can be tricky to precisely pin down. Bad upbringing? Bad life experiences? Bad ideaology? Assorted biological factors? Things like that could steadily push a person into an insane, angry mindset. And there's not so much we can do to stamp all that out, just now. I doubt we could pinpoint one, universal factor that could be easily banned or regulated.
As for the methodology, I guess guns are the most assured way to do it? With poison, he needs to to get access to all of their food without anyone seeing. With the car, he gets maybe one good hit and everyone scatters. An explosive, maybe, but he'd still need to get the materials together, learn how to make it and plant it ahead of time without anyone discovering it. Guns don't have any of that sorta bullshit. Just aim and shoot. Like I said, they're uniquely suberb at what they do.
I think anonymous H had it right. The "why" can be tricky to precisely pin down. Bad upbringing? Bad life experiences? Bad ideaology? Assorted biological factors? Things like that could steadily push a person into an insane, angry mindset. And there's not so much we can do to stamp all that out, just now. I doubt we could pinpoint one, universal factor that could be easily banned or regulated.
As for the methodology, I guess guns are the most assured way to do it? With poison, he needs to to get access to all of their food without anyone seeing. With the car, he gets maybe one good hit and everyone scatters. An explosive, maybe, but he'd still need to get the materials together, learn how to make it and plant it ahead of time without anyone discovering it. Guns don't have any of that sorta bullshit. Just aim and shoot. Like I said, they're uniquely suberb at what they do.
beckyderp !4aMoRa.T2Q (OP) replied with this 11 years ago, 3 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #571,347
Anonymous D replied with this 11 years ago, 16 seconds later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #571,348
@571,343 (beckyderp !4aMoRa.T2Q)
Not really. I watched a doco about it a while back and the presenter was saying something along the lines of; on one side of the river in this American city there are lots of guns and lots of gun crimes, on the other side of the river in this Canadian city there are more guns per capita but virtually no gun crimes.
It is the culture.
Not really. I watched a doco about it a while back and the presenter was saying something along the lines of; on one side of the river in this American city there are lots of guns and lots of gun crimes, on the other side of the river in this Canadian city there are more guns per capita but virtually no gun crimes.
It is the culture.
beckyderp !4aMoRa.T2Q (OP) replied with this 11 years ago, 28 seconds later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #571,350
Anonymous D replied with this 11 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #571,352
@previous (beckyderp !4aMoRa.T2Q)
The American city has blacks doing the gun crime, the Canadian city has whites who go hunting?
The American city has blacks doing the gun crime, the Canadian city has whites who go hunting?
beckyderp !4aMoRa.T2Q (OP) replied with this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #571,353
Anonymous D replied with this 11 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #571,354
@previous (beckyderp !4aMoRa.T2Q)
I am not racist towards Canadians though, I was asking what you meant.
I am not racist towards Canadians though, I was asking what you meant.
Metæ replied with this 11 years ago, 26 seconds later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #571,355
@571,347 (beckyderp !4aMoRa.T2Q)
But with tighter gun laws. Jamaica's gun laws make Obama look like Charlton Heston.
But with tighter gun laws. Jamaica's gun laws make Obama look like Charlton Heston.
Metæ double-posted this 11 years ago, 3 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #571,356
@571,350 (beckyderp !4aMoRa.T2Q)
I don't think the genetics of a population predispose them to violence.
I don't think the genetics of a population predispose them to violence.
Catherine !TGirlYJKXM joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 5 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #571,357
Do the Republicans stand any against of winning the presidency in 2016?
I keep getting this hunch that we should prepare ourselves for our next Republican president, but at the same time it seems like the current bunch running might not get the required amount of voters.
I keep getting this hunch that we should prepare ourselves for our next Republican president, but at the same time it seems like the current bunch running might not get the required amount of voters.
beckyderp !4aMoRa.T2Q (OP) replied with this 11 years ago, 4 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #571,362
@571,356 (Metæ)
I'm sort of just running out of replies here.
@previous (Catherine !TGirlYJKXM)
> but at the same time it seems like the current bunch running might not get the required amount of voters.
You do know that only one Republican runs against the Democrat, right?
I'm sort of just running out of replies here.
@previous (Catherine !TGirlYJKXM)
> but at the same time it seems like the current bunch running might not get the required amount of voters.
You do know that only one Republican runs against the Democrat, right?
Catherine !TGirlYJKXM replied with this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #571,363
@previous (beckyderp !4aMoRa.T2Q)
Yeah, I must have been thinking of the primaries and got them mixed up.
Yeah, I must have been thinking of the primaries and got them mixed up.
Metæ replied with this 11 years ago, 4 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #571,367
@571,362 (beckyderp !4aMoRa.T2Q)
I'm sorry. I do see where you're coming from on the gun issue and I respect the validity your views on this issue.
I'm sorry. I do see where you're coming from on the gun issue and I respect the validity your views on this issue.
beckyderp !4aMoRa.T2Q (OP) replied with this 11 years ago, 7 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #571,372
WSD !m2cp3rR5zw joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 2 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #571,434
@571,062 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
Are you suggesting keeping those on SSRIs from having guns? If so, I'd agree.
Are you suggesting keeping those on SSRIs from having guns? If so, I'd agree.
Anonymous H replied with this 11 years ago, 4 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #571,463
@571,291 (Metæ)
> Would you care to provide any sort of data about crime rates in the "old west"? Do you think the Hollywood image of it is accurate?
Shit, I can hardly seem to find reliable data earlier than the 70s let alone the 1800s, and Hollywood dramatizations are just that.
> Would you care to provide any sort of data about crime rates in the "old west"? Do you think the Hollywood image of it is accurate?
Shit, I can hardly seem to find reliable data earlier than the 70s let alone the 1800s, and Hollywood dramatizations are just that.
Anonymous I replied with this 11 years ago, 13 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #571,641
@571,348 (D)
> Not really. I watched a doco about it a while back and the presenter was saying something along the lines of; on one side of the river in this American city there are lots of guns and lots of gun crimes, on the other side of the river in this Canadian city there are more guns per capita but virtually no gun crimes.
>
> It is the culture.
Canadians aren't permitted the vast array and the process to buy what they can buy is a hell of a lot more stringent.
> Not really. I watched a doco about it a while back and the presenter was saying something along the lines of; on one side of the river in this American city there are lots of guns and lots of gun crimes, on the other side of the river in this Canadian city there are more guns per capita but virtually no gun crimes.
>
> It is the culture.
Canadians aren't permitted the vast array and the process to buy what they can buy is a hell of a lot more stringent.
Anonymous D replied with this 11 years ago, 3 hours later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #571,732
Anonymous O joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 14 hours later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #571,838
> Canadians are different, genetically
not that there is anything wrong with that..
not that there is anything wrong with that..
Anonymous D replied with this 11 years ago, 6 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #571,844
kook !!mCVqftDha replied with this 11 years ago, 3 hours later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #571,930
Anonymous P joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 12 hours later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #572,119
@571,062 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
Stricter gun laws would not have changed the outcome of this scenario in the slightest. Too many guns in the wild, law abiding people will be impacted, yet criminals and those with psychiatric issues won't be deterred.
The real problem IMO is how far behind America is in matters of mental health and socialized medicine when compared to the rest of the first world. Where was the safety net or intervention for a troubled youth like this tied up with hate groups and abusing prescription medication? Surely someone noticed and yet they did nothing. As far as I'm concerned they're complicit in the murders.
@571,251 (kook !!mCVqftDha)
Welp, that explains it. Goddamn pinkos.
Stricter gun laws would not have changed the outcome of this scenario in the slightest. Too many guns in the wild, law abiding people will be impacted, yet criminals and those with psychiatric issues won't be deterred.
The real problem IMO is how far behind America is in matters of mental health and socialized medicine when compared to the rest of the first world. Where was the safety net or intervention for a troubled youth like this tied up with hate groups and abusing prescription medication? Surely someone noticed and yet they did nothing. As far as I'm concerned they're complicit in the murders.
@571,251 (kook !!mCVqftDha)
Welp, that explains it. Goddamn pinkos.
Anonymous I replied with this 11 years ago, 1 hour later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #572,127
@previous (P)
stricter gun laws 90 years ago of course would have helped reduce some of today's bullet riot spasms, what with 90-year-old guns and all
stricter gun laws 90 years ago of course would have helped reduce some of today's bullet riot spasms, what with 90-year-old guns and all
Anonymous Q joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 1 hour later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #572,132
@572,119 (P)
> Too many guns in the wild
how the fuck do you think that happened? try to think ahead for a change
> Too many guns in the wild
how the fuck do you think that happened? try to think ahead for a change