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Anonymous A started this discussion 11 years ago#42,988
If we were to ditch capitalism for communism do you think the ruling government will continue to allow you and other access to Tumblr and other social media where you can bash the government as much as you like? Do you also think a communist government will do more for gender politics?
vocalon !74TdoRkjCc joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 9 minutes later[^][v]#569,091
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if capitalism was abandoned and replaced with communism and there was no bigotry within that government, given the freedom to work without interference from capitalist pigs, theres no reason for me to bash the government. this post is like, the stupidest thing ive read all day and i just replied to kook so i hope that says something
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 11 years ago, 3 minutes later, 13 minutes after the original post[^][v]#569,092
@previous (vocalon !74TdoRkjCc)
So you support a fantasy type communist government that has never been tried?
FuckAlms !vX8K53rFBI joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 1 hour later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#569,121
@569,091 (vocalon !74TdoRkjCc)
the only way communism works is if you replace all the humans with robots. any communism involving humans will always fail.
vocalon !74TdoRkjCc replied with this 11 years ago, 3 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#569,123
@previous (FuckAlms !vX8K53rFBI)
you act like that's not the plan.
once labor starts being automated entirely through machines, the issues with previous incarnations of communism wrt worker motive and creative jobs fade away
squeegee joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 24 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#569,127
@previous (vocalon !74TdoRkjCc)
so the state would own the means of production AND all the labor would be done by machines?
So when people are put out of work by robots they can't then use their creativity to create a new job for themselves? that sounds like a bad idea.
especially considering how far capitalism has brought us and how behind communist countries are. and ESPECIALLY considering there aren't any real communist contries anymore since they all engage in open capitalism now. That was pretty much the nail in the coffin for that social theory when everyone fucking abandoned it and said, "you know what, that capitalism works pretty well actually..."
but, yes, capitalism does come with problems like poverty and disparity which is why we should have a social safety net. but abandoning the most successful human invention ever (free trade) for one that has proven itself to be a failure time and time again is a really short sighted idea. communism is really popular with the college age group though, i do remember that. probably because it's so idealistically beautiful it really seems like it should work and will be the government of the future, but i think as you get a little older you start to see how unfair the world naturally is and how untrustworthy people can be. ultimately it becomes apparent that the ideology of communism will always be ruined by the ambitions of men.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 1 hour later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#569,138
@previous (squeegee) > but abandoning the most successful human invention ever (free trade) for one that has proven itself to be a failure time and time again
This always gives me a giggle. Communism's track record is utterly abysmal, yet it still has some fans. I suppose it just looks great in theory.
> it becomes apparent that the ideology of communism will always be ruined by the ambitions of men.
Whereas capitalism is a system that encourages and (at least sometimes) rewards ambition. For me, that's a pretty fundamental advantage that capitalism has. It doesn't try to deny a person's desire for improvement.
kook !!mCVqftDha joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 15 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#569,145
@previous (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
Almost every pro communist is an autistic tranny, who refuses to get a job. They think that in a communist society, no one would ever expect things from them.
vocalon !74TdoRkjCc replied with this 11 years ago, 20 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#569,153
@569,138 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
i mean, if you look at capitalism as it is now, its not any better. the deaths because of it are just hidden better.
kook !!mCVqftDha replied with this 11 years ago, 3 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#569,159
@previous (vocalon !74TdoRkjCc)
How would your own life be improved if you lived in a communist country?
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 11 years ago, 4 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#569,161
@569,153 (vocalon !74TdoRkjCc)
I don't see any modern capitalist societies putting forward a Pol Pot, Mao Zedong or Joseph Stalin.
And, really, it's very difficult to hide things in the information age. Capitalist countries generally allow their citizens access to the internet, which makes covering up mass killings on the scale of communism extremeley difficult, if not impossible.
@569,145 (kook !!mCVqftDha)
Somehow, I doubt that ADF quite represents a majority of communist sympathisers.
kook !!mCVqftDha replied with this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#569,164
@previous (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
Look up communism on tumblr, thanks.
FuckAlms !vX8K53rFBI replied with this 11 years ago, 32 seconds later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#569,165
We'd avoid a lot of the bullshit if we just saved discussions on communism for the senior year of college. It's appealing when your life is taken care of for you and you only have a superficial understanding of it's concepts. Make students take 3 years of psychology, and then talk about the principles of communism.
squeegee replied with this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#569,166
@569,153 (vocalon !74TdoRkjCc) > its not any better
what? it is fundamentally better in every way. individuals are way more prosperous, that's why the commies gave it up and let their people engage in free trade.
and nothing is hidden better than commie deaths, by the way. the only reason we knew about chernobyl was because it was kinda hard to hide the giant cloud of radioactive fallout in poland (i think it was). communism is also built upon surrendering rights we'd normally call inalienable which makes it a much more dangerous form of government for individuals. i wonder why we don't hear too much about russian cops or chinese cops killing citizens. is it because it doesn't happen or is it because they shut down conversation?
maybe it's because it's too far away for our media to care about, but i'm going to google around for a bit and see how many news reports from russia or china or north korea where police have shot civilians.
vocalon !74TdoRkjCc replied with this 11 years ago, 50 seconds later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#569,167
@569,161 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
maybe that wasnt the right way to phrase it but like, deaths as a result of the issues of capitalism (ie, homeless people freezing to death, dying of nutrient deficiency-induced illnesses because of lack of access to healthy foods) arent nearly as in your face as the deaths because of the issues of previous incarnations of communism
> Edit: i accidentally a word.
(Edited 51 seconds later.)
squeegee replied with this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#569,169
> homeless people freezing to death
yes, poverty in general is a problem that directly results from capitalism. poverty is "built in" so to speak. that's why we do need a social safety net. you can't get rid of it (and for you religious folks that's a quote from jesus) and so yes it's a problem that should managed better. homelessness, yes, i believe that CAN be eradicated, but in a lot of instances homelessness is a symptom of an underlying mental disorder. so in some respects that's a problem for our medical establishment. but you can't ever get rid of all of the poor.
> dying of nutrient deficiency-induced illnesses because of lack of access to healthy foods
well, healthy foods are the cheapest foods and they also aren't taxed. the only thing keeping people from highly nutritious vegan diets is their own desire to eat unhealthy foods. that's a choice. and if the social safety net is robust enough then everyone will have the means to eat healthy. but it's on them to make the choice.
> arent nearly as in your face as the deaths because of the issues of previous incarnations of communism
they are absolutely in our face, but they aren't all lumped together as a "capitalist problem" by our propaganda machines as communism related problems are called commie troubles.
you're right though, poverty and all that are direct results of capitalism. every day i go to work i actively engage in supporting a wealthy class and a poor class. and i accept that libertarians are somewhat correct in that without industry leaders we'd get little widespread innovation and we'd languish. but i also accept the communist tenet that the people control the means of production. that means the rich need the middle class as much as the middle class needs the rich. And i also accept that for that to happen some people are sacrificed as detritus carved from the twin pillars (the rich and the middle class) that support the entirely of our civilization. And as part of that i accept a responsibility to ensure that the poor are given every chance they can get to rise from the rubble, and to take care of the ones who truly can not. unfortunately not everyone sees it that way, and so there's still a bunch of bitching and moaning about social responsibility and a lot of people are of course hurt by the inaction. but, we've certainly made great strides since the late 1800s when elderly people starved in the streets em masse because they had no retirement savings or safety net to ensure they ended their life with respect. but sure, we can do better. that's how i try to use my limited influence when voting.
FuckAlms !vX8K53rFBI replied with this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 4 hours after the original post[^][v]#569,187
@569,178 (kook !!mCVqftDha)
How many homeless people who froze to death were found to not have alcohol in their systems?
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 11 years ago, 3 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^][v]#569,188
@569,167 (vocalon !74TdoRkjCc)
Communism has also had issues supplying its citizens. Short introducing economic reform (thus moving towards capitalism anyway), all countries that tried to stay purely communist have struggled economically.
squeegee replied with this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 4 hours after the original post[^][v]#569,191
@569,178 (kook !!mCVqftDha)
some groups blame stuff like heart disease and obesity or like diabetes to a lack of access to nutritious food. like the only thing around is mcdonalds. i'm sorry, eating shit food is just a choice. there are so many grocery stores here and they all have high quality produce and fresh fish and whatever. but people want to eat big macs and get sick and then claim all food here is unhealthy. yeah, maybe grocery stores are 90% snack cakes and candy, but there are 2 perfectly healthy aisles in every grocery store.
and also i've heard the argument that poor people can't afford to eat healthy, and yeah i guess if you're living on the street eating out of dumpsters that's true, but everyone here who can't afford food can get on some kind of food assistance program that would cover all the tofu and veggies and chicken as you can eat. people going for sodas and snack chips is not a capitalist problem, that's a personal one.
kook !!mCVqftDha replied with this 11 years ago, 2 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^][v]#569,193
@569,187 (FuckAlms !vX8K53rFBI)
Lol most wont use shelters because they dont let you drink and drug
kook !!mCVqftDha double-posted this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 4 hours after the original post[^][v]#569,194