Topic: do you think a christian cake shop should be allowed to refuse baking a cake for a gay marriage?
hamfist !t5TYQ9eJPs started this discussion 11 years ago #40,982
people are saying things like "you wouldn't force a black cake shop owner to bake a cake for a kkk member" which strikes me as a bullshit false equivalency. tolerance isn't a ~two-way street~, and if the people who say it is really mean it, then we would have to tolerate shit like white supremacy and - gasp! - radical islam. this is moral cowardice. take a fucking stand for something.> blog status: updated
| Poll option | Votes | Percentage | Graph |
|---|---|---|---|
| Yes | 4 | 50% | |
| No | 4 | 50% | |
| Not sure | - | 0% |
Anonymous B joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 9 minutes later[^] [v] #544,842
Would you really want to attend an event where the baker was forced to make a cake?
Nothing I would want to eat.
Nothing I would want to eat.
kook !!mCVqftDha joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 17 minutes later, 26 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #544,843
Absolutely.
kook !!mCVqftDha double-posted this 11 years ago, 22 seconds later, 27 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #544,844
squeegee joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 13 minutes later, 40 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #544,845
as a white christian cake shop owner i refuse to make cakes for gays marriages, interreligious marriages, and interacial marriages. gays have no business marrying, buddists have no business marrying christians, and blacks shouldn't be allowed to marry white women.
i mean fuck. is the whole planet full of disgusting sinning perverts? am i the only good person left?
i mean fuck. is the whole planet full of disgusting sinning perverts? am i the only good person left?
squeegee double-posted this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 42 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #544,846
you know who else shouldn't be allowed to marry? poor people.
you know they're just going to breed more poor people and criminals. fuck that, if people ask for a discount they GET NOTHING!
you know they're just going to breed more poor people and criminals. fuck that, if people ask for a discount they GET NOTHING!
Anonymous B replied with this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 43 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #544,847
@544,845 (squeegee)
It would be in the best interest of the baker to only make cakes for couples who procreate. Bakers business depends on a growing population.
It would be in the best interest of the baker to only make cakes for couples who procreate. Bakers business depends on a growing population.
squeegee replied with this 11 years ago, 42 seconds later, 44 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #544,848
of course i'll make a cake for your impregnated 17 year old high school drop out white daughter. the husband is white, yes? not gay and christian as well? fine.
she'll make such a beautiful bride.
she'll make such a beautiful bride.
squeegee double-posted this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 45 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #544,849
@544,847 (B)
it would be in the best interest of bakers to bake cakes and sell them to paying customers.
it would be in the best interest of bakers to bake cakes and sell them to paying customers.
Anonymous E joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 31 seconds later, 46 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #544,850
@544,845 (squeegee)
Include in your list white guys shouldn't marry black women. Other than that, I agree completely with your statement.
Include in your list white guys shouldn't marry black women. Other than that, I agree completely with your statement.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 5 minutes later, 51 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #544,851
I wonder, would this be so controversial if it was a racist baker refusing to make cakes for interracial marriages? Racism can also be a very closely-held belief, like religion.
Seems to me that homophobes just get a pass because their bigotry is enshrined in their country's main religion.
@OP
> tolerance isn't a ~two-way street~, and if the people who say it is really mean it, then we would have to tolerate shit like white supremacy and - gasp! - radical islam.
A common misconception. People who advocate tolerance often aren't exactly advocating complete tolerance of all beliefs, but a society where intolerant beliefs are discouraged because they're harmful.
It's not an either or choice. It's a valid answer to br intolerant of intolerance.
Seems to me that homophobes just get a pass because their bigotry is enshrined in their country's main religion.
@OP
> tolerance isn't a ~two-way street~, and if the people who say it is really mean it, then we would have to tolerate shit like white supremacy and - gasp! - radical islam.
A common misconception. People who advocate tolerance often aren't exactly advocating complete tolerance of all beliefs, but a society where intolerant beliefs are discouraged because they're harmful.
It's not an either or choice. It's a valid answer to br intolerant of intolerance.
Anonymous B replied with this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 53 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #544,853
@544,849 (squeegee)
Can you cite a case where a baker or florist is netting $1000's of donations for serving all paying customers?
RICHLAND, Wash. (AP) — A florist in eastern Washington state fined $1,000 for refusing to sell a same-sex couple wedding flowers and also facing a consumer-protection lawsuit has netted more than $85,000 in a crowdfunding campaign.
Can you cite a case where a baker or florist is netting $1000's of donations for serving all paying customers?
kook !!mCVqftDha replied with this 11 years ago, 10 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #544,855
Everyone who voted no. Should a company be allowed to turn down any kind of business?
Anonymous G joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 6 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #544,856
@previous (kook !!mCVqftDha)
I think a baker - florist or any other business had a right to refuse service to Osama Bien Laden.
One can then add to that and make a list.
I think a baker - florist or any other business had a right to refuse service to Osama Bien Laden.
One can then add to that and make a list.
squeegee joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 10 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #544,857
@544,853 (B)
right, like that 85 grand isn't going straight into legal defense.
also, 85 grand is nothing compared to what you should be bringing in as a business.
right, like that 85 grand isn't going straight into legal defense.
also, 85 grand is nothing compared to what you should be bringing in as a business.
kook !!mCVqftDha replied with this 11 years ago, 57 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #544,858
squeegee replied with this 11 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #544,859
@544,855 (kook !!mCVqftDha)
if i owned a car repair shop should i be allowed to refuse to fix a gay's car because they are gay?
should a doctor be able to refuse to treat gays?
should a pharmacist be allowed to refuse to sell condoms to a gay man cause it's being used sinfully?
people need to leave their bigoted shit at home
if i owned a car repair shop should i be allowed to refuse to fix a gay's car because they are gay?
should a doctor be able to refuse to treat gays?
should a pharmacist be allowed to refuse to sell condoms to a gay man cause it's being used sinfully?
people need to leave their bigoted shit at home
squeegee double-posted this 11 years ago, 3 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #544,861
i think cops should be able to choose who they "protect and serve" based on race, gender and sexual orientation. it's their religious right
Ooo, and politicians too, they have a right to choose who they speak for. a religious right to ignore stuff like poor people, gays and women.
Ooo, and politicians too, they have a right to choose who they speak for. a religious right to ignore stuff like poor people, gays and women.
(Edited 1 minute later.)
kook !!mCVqftDha replied with this 11 years ago, 41 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #544,862
@544,859 (squeegee)
The car repair shop, yes. The medical things no. If the baker had refused to make a cake for a NAMBLA convention, people would be applauding them.
The car repair shop, yes. The medical things no. If the baker had refused to make a cake for a NAMBLA convention, people would be applauding them.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 11 years ago, 34 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #544,863
@544,859 (squeegee)
Just to add to this, a cake shop refusing service might seem like a minor thing. But if it's allowed, it opens the door for things like this too.
Just to add to this, a cake shop refusing service might seem like a minor thing. But if it's allowed, it opens the door for things like this too.
kook !!mCVqftDha replied with this 11 years ago, 23 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #544,864
@544,861 (squeegee)
Business that are run in participation with the government should not be able to discriminate. Everyone else can, though.
Business that are run in participation with the government should not be able to discriminate. Everyone else can, though.
kook !!mCVqftDha double-posted this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #544,865
I tried to purchase a cake that said "Happy Birthday, you punk ass bitch". The bakery refused. Where's my parade?
squeegee replied with this 11 years ago, 58 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #544,866
@544,862 (kook !!mCVqftDha)
alright, well i know then, instead of a simple "no exceptions" policy that is super easy to follow, let's set up a whole system of confusing exclusions so that people can be bigoted sometimes and not in others.
So like, car repair shops are allowed to refuse service, but not bakers cause NAMBLA and doctors too because they have a responsibility but Male Nurses aren't required to assist gays, only female nurses. Flower shops are excluded as well, and so are gyms. But not college campuses or Teachers. Cops are not excluded, but lawyers are!
cause that makes a lot more sense?
alright, well i know then, instead of a simple "no exceptions" policy that is super easy to follow, let's set up a whole system of confusing exclusions so that people can be bigoted sometimes and not in others.
So like, car repair shops are allowed to refuse service, but not bakers cause NAMBLA and doctors too because they have a responsibility but Male Nurses aren't required to assist gays, only female nurses. Flower shops are excluded as well, and so are gyms. But not college campuses or Teachers. Cops are not excluded, but lawyers are!
cause that makes a lot more sense?
(Edited 1 minute later.)
squeegee double-posted this 11 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #544,868
kook !!mCVqftDha replied with this 11 years ago, 22 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #544,869
@544,866 (squeegee)
Calm down and think about this. Private doctors are allowed to refuse service for any reason. Pharmacies are allowed to turn down suspected drug seekers. Hospitals cannot refuse service because they are in part, tax payer funded.
Either you are okay with private businesses turning down some people for some things, or never being alllowed to turn down anyone.
Calm down and think about this. Private doctors are allowed to refuse service for any reason. Pharmacies are allowed to turn down suspected drug seekers. Hospitals cannot refuse service because they are in part, tax payer funded.
Either you are okay with private businesses turning down some people for some things, or never being alllowed to turn down anyone.
kook !!mCVqftDha double-posted this 11 years ago, 24 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #544,870
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 11 years ago, 56 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #544,872
@544,864 (kook !!mCVqftDha)
> Everyone else can though
So... You'd also be on-board with businesses being able to discriminate based on skin colour? Maybe nationality?
> Everyone else can though
So... You'd also be on-board with businesses being able to discriminate based on skin colour? Maybe nationality?
squeegee replied with this 11 years ago, 44 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #544,873
@544,870 (kook !!mCVqftDha)
being gay is not "blasphemous or obscene language," kook
https://www.google.com/search?q=profanity&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
and there are plenty of states with profanity laws still on the books. maybe they were actually following the letter of the law by refusing to put "punk ass bitch" on something they are selling.
check your local laws.
being gay is not "blasphemous or obscene language," kook
https://www.google.com/search?q=profanity&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
and there are plenty of states with profanity laws still on the books. maybe they were actually following the letter of the law by refusing to put "punk ass bitch" on something they are selling.
check your local laws.
(Edited 2 minutes later.)
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #544,874
@544,869 (kook !!mCVqftDha)
It's really not that black and white.
It's valid to turn people down if they're aggressive or drug-seekers. That's not the same as turning them down based on some fundamental attribute like their sexuality.
It's really not that black and white.
It's valid to turn people down if they're aggressive or drug-seekers. That's not the same as turning them down based on some fundamental attribute like their sexuality.
Anonymous I joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 2 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #544,875
@544,863 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
But these businesses were not refusing to serve gay people, they were refusing to service a particular event.
But these businesses were not refusing to serve gay people, they were refusing to service a particular event.
kook !!mCVqftDha replied with this 11 years ago, 30 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #544,876
@544,872 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
Yes. They will lose business from it, but if they are not funded by tax payers, than threy should be able to discriminate as they wish.
Yes. They will lose business from it, but if they are not funded by tax payers, than threy should be able to discriminate as they wish.
kook !!mCVqftDha double-posted this 11 years ago, 35 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #544,878
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 11 years ago, 31 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #544,879
@544,875 (I)
An event that only differed from the usual event because the participants were gay.
It's semantics, really. The end result is still that the person is refused service just for being gay. If they were a straight person getting married, there'd be no issue.
An event that only differed from the usual event because the participants were gay.
It's semantics, really. The end result is still that the person is refused service just for being gay. If they were a straight person getting married, there'd be no issue.
kook !!mCVqftDha replied with this 11 years ago, 12 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #544,880
@544,874 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
Why are those reasons valid? If someone has money and a prescription, then they should get their meds. Right?
Why are those reasons valid? If someone has money and a prescription, then they should get their meds. Right?
squeegee replied with this 11 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #544,881
@544,878 (kook !!mCVqftDha)
laws ARE laws and they get used to support and defend things all the time.
refusing to sell something with profanity scrawled across it is not the same as refusing service based bigotry anyway
laws ARE laws and they get used to support and defend things all the time.
refusing to sell something with profanity scrawled across it is not the same as refusing service based bigotry anyway
(Edited 15 seconds later.)
kook !!mCVqftDha replied with this 11 years ago, 8 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #544,882
A related question: How do you all feel about businesses that have dress codes?
(Edited 10 seconds later.)
kook !!mCVqftDha double-posted this 11 years ago, 54 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #544,883
@544,881 (squeegee)
In my opinion, they are very similar. No one at a bakery would get arrested for writing the word "ass" in icing.
In my opinion, they are very similar. No one at a bakery would get arrested for writing the word "ass" in icing.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 11 years ago, 26 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #544,884
@544,876 (kook !!mCVqftDha)
I'm surprised that you think that business should be able to discriminate on any whim. That'll just give people the chance to discriminate however they like, thus encouraging a pretty awful behaviour.
Do you, personally, see nothing wrong with being bigoted?
I'm surprised that you think that business should be able to discriminate on any whim. That'll just give people the chance to discriminate however they like, thus encouraging a pretty awful behaviour.
Do you, personally, see nothing wrong with being bigoted?
kook !!mCVqftDha replied with this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #544,885
@previous (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
I think it is wrong, but I also think that everyone should have a choice in doing or believing things that are wrong.
Also, you really shuldnt be surprised by my opinions. I'm strange, yo.
I think it is wrong, but I also think that everyone should have a choice in doing or believing things that are wrong.
Also, you really shuldnt be surprised by my opinions. I'm strange, yo.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 11 years ago, 32 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #544,886
@544,880 (kook !!mCVqftDha)
I don't understand your point.
You should understand why those are valid reasons, because they're disruptive and allow the person to harm themselves. A person's sexuality or skin colour does nothing like that. They're just there.
I don't understand your point.
You should understand why those are valid reasons, because they're disruptive and allow the person to harm themselves. A person's sexuality or skin colour does nothing like that. They're just there.
kook !!mCVqftDha replied with this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #544,887
@previous (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
Okay, lets look at it this way. Should a bakery have to make a cake for a group wedding, waifu wedding, animal wedding etc?
Okay, lets look at it this way. Should a bakery have to make a cake for a group wedding, waifu wedding, animal wedding etc?
kook !!mCVqftDha double-posted this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #544,888
@544,886 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
Oh and I absolutely believe that a persons sexual practices can be harmful to them, and society in general.
Oh and I absolutely believe that a persons sexual practices can be harmful to them, and society in general.
Syntax replied with this 11 years ago, 17 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #544,893
Re Doctors - I never understood how Doctors who's profession has the longest history of rules dating to the 5th Century BC -
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/hippocratic-oath-today.html
In the dark days of USA South Doctors refused to treat blacks. Nor did I no, till this moment in look up, that the original oath was so super liberal.
Bottom line is Docs with exception of race hate took the oath and have to abide.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/hippocratic-oath-today.html
In the dark days of USA South Doctors refused to treat blacks. Nor did I no, till this moment in look up, that the original oath was so super liberal.
Bottom line is Docs with exception of race hate took the oath and have to abide.
Anonymous J joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 31 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #544,897
they're idiots for turning down money
why exclude people who wants to give YOU MONEY FOR YOUR BUSINESS
its fucking idiotic
why exclude people who wants to give YOU MONEY FOR YOUR BUSINESS
its fucking idiotic
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 11 years ago, 11 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #544,899
@544,885 (kook !!mCVqftDha)
Well... Ultimately, I think that the way to combat harmful beliefs like that is indeed to have laws against 'em.
Sorry, I think we just have a pretty fundamental disagreement on this one.
@544,887 (kook !!mCVqftDha)
A waifu wedding?! Ha, how novel.
Um, anyway, I don't see why any of those things are particularly objectionable anyway, so sure. Those are more unusual than particularly moral issues.
@544,888 (kook !!mCVqftDha)
Not at all to society, if it's all kept behind closed doors. As to the self, well that's an issue of self-control and excess. And that can become an issue for basically any type of sex. You don't need to be kinky or gay to develop a sex addiction, for example.
Well... Ultimately, I think that the way to combat harmful beliefs like that is indeed to have laws against 'em.
Sorry, I think we just have a pretty fundamental disagreement on this one.
@544,887 (kook !!mCVqftDha)
A waifu wedding?! Ha, how novel.
Um, anyway, I don't see why any of those things are particularly objectionable anyway, so sure. Those are more unusual than particularly moral issues.
@544,888 (kook !!mCVqftDha)
Not at all to society, if it's all kept behind closed doors. As to the self, well that's an issue of self-control and excess. And that can become an issue for basically any type of sex. You don't need to be kinky or gay to develop a sex addiction, for example.
The Owl !KThEOwLwbU joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 5 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #544,901
Easy to say you support the bakery when you're never going to be in a position to be refused service because of who you are
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #544,902
@previous (The Owl !KThEOwLwbU)
m8, I've just had a brainwave.
You could summon an angel and make it talk to the bakery owners, convince them to reconsider.
m8, I've just had a brainwave.
You could summon an angel and make it talk to the bakery owners, convince them to reconsider.
The Owl !KThEOwLwbU replied with this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #544,903
@previous (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
i think it would be easier to just convince all gay people to commit suicide for under $20
i think it would be easier to just convince all gay people to commit suicide for under $20
beckyderp !4aMoRa.T2Q joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #544,904
Kook, what are your thoughts on businesses refusing service to black people? A private school refusing black students?
Private discrimination over membership in a protected class is illegal in the US. The bakery couldn't refuse to serve an interracial couple's wedding because they're against that kind of marriage. I look forward to that protection being expanded to include sexuality and gender expression.
Private discrimination over membership in a protected class is illegal in the US. The bakery couldn't refuse to serve an interracial couple's wedding because they're against that kind of marriage. I look forward to that protection being expanded to include sexuality and gender expression.
(Edited 1 minute later.)
Syntax replied with this 11 years ago, 20 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #544,913
@544,902 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
KL - USA 60 Minutes Sunday and just watched via TVio - They covered the current Belfast situation with all those super high fences and gates to exclude Catholics from Protestents & vice a versa.
Schools are segregated - Business's are segregated - Everything is -
KL - USA 60 Minutes Sunday and just watched via TVio - They covered the current Belfast situation with all those super high fences and gates to exclude Catholics from Protestents & vice a versa.
Schools are segregated - Business's are segregated - Everything is -
Meta joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 43 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #544,924
I think businesses should be allowed to choose who they serve and customers should be allowed to choose which merchants they deal with. As Anon B said, would you want to eat a cake a baker was forced to bake against their will?
Would it be a bad thing if a black Jewish baker refused to bake a White Pride World Wide swastika cake for a Christian Identity wedding?
Would it be a bad thing if a black Jewish baker refused to bake a White Pride World Wide swastika cake for a Christian Identity wedding?
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 11 years ago, 6 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #544,930
@previous (Meta)
Now, see, that's not quite the same thing. Nazism is a harmful movement, an organised hate group. It's fine to object to implicitly supporting that movement.
Sexuality? Skin colour? That's nothing, really.
> customers should be allowed to choose which merchants they deal with
They always have this choice. Allowing discrimination only limits their options. It limits freedom.
Now, see, that's not quite the same thing. Nazism is a harmful movement, an organised hate group. It's fine to object to implicitly supporting that movement.
Sexuality? Skin colour? That's nothing, really.
> customers should be allowed to choose which merchants they deal with
They always have this choice. Allowing discrimination only limits their options. It limits freedom.
beckyderp !4aMoRa.T2Q replied with this 11 years ago, 3 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #544,934
@544,924 (Meta)
No one said they ahould be forced to provide a particular message. Insert libtard comment
No one said they ahould be forced to provide a particular message. Insert libtard comment
Meta replied with this 11 years ago, 1 hour later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #544,945
@previous (beckyderp !4aMoRa.T2Q)
Why is a baker allowed to refuse to write a message in line with Christian Identity religious beliefs? That's discrimination, right? How is declining to write a message on the cake different from refusing to bake the cake?
@544,930 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
Some people take it religiously, though. So a baker should allowed to discriminate against someone's political beliefs but not their religion or ethnicity?
Why is a baker allowed to refuse to write a message in line with Christian Identity religious beliefs? That's discrimination, right? How is declining to write a message on the cake different from refusing to bake the cake?
@544,930 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
Some people take it religiously, though. So a baker should allowed to discriminate against someone's political beliefs but not their religion or ethnicity?
(Edited 22 seconds later.)
dw joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 10 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #544,948
I think i agree with kook, a private business should be able to deny anyone business for any reason, how bigoted and stupid the reason may be. Obviously different for government services.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 11 years ago, 1 minute later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #544,949
@544,945 (Meta)> So a baker should allowed to discriminate against someone's political beliefs but not their religion or ethnicity?
Yes! Mwahahaha!
Okay, as I said, it's not quite that simple. Nazism is an extreme example, a very virulent hate movement. I wouldn't apply the same to, say, wanting a Republican cake. I'm specifically talking about extremist/illegal groups.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx double-posted this 11 years ago, 29 seconds later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #544,950
dw replied with this 11 years ago, 9 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #544,953
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 11 years ago, 15 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #544,954
@previous (dw)
thanks dw
though to expand, i believe that it is important to take steps against discrimination via laws and see no reason why business owners should be exempt from this
i can see there are difficult potential scenarios either way but ultimately i feel that protecting against and discouraging discrimination is the more valuable outcome
thanks dw
though to expand, i believe that it is important to take steps against discrimination via laws and see no reason why business owners should be exempt from this
i can see there are difficult potential scenarios either way but ultimately i feel that protecting against and discouraging discrimination is the more valuable outcome
(Edited 31 seconds later.)
Anonymous O joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 10 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #544,957
@544,861 (squeegee)
> i think cops should be able to choose who they "protect and serve" based on race
They already do that
The cake shop owners don't have the right to refuse service, but they do have the right to their beliefs. They also have the right to charge as much as they want so just charge those gay niggers 10x the price and shit in their chocolate cake.
> i think cops should be able to choose who they "protect and serve" based on race
They already do that
The cake shop owners don't have the right to refuse service, but they do have the right to their beliefs. They also have the right to charge as much as they want so just charge those gay niggers 10x the price and shit in their chocolate cake.
Anonymous O double-posted this 11 years ago, 3 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #544,958
@544,954 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
Those laws only protect people with plenty of money, and plenty of time for court battles. Intent is hard to prove, and unless there is evidence other than hearsay then they just got refused service because the business was too busy.
Those laws don't do anything to change bigotry
Those laws only protect people with plenty of money, and plenty of time for court battles. Intent is hard to prove, and unless there is evidence other than hearsay then they just got refused service because the business was too busy.
Those laws don't do anything to change bigotry
Syntax replied with this 11 years ago, 3 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #544,959
@544,957 (O)
Someone who understands English needs to explain to me this.
Refuse, as in I don't want your business.
Refuse, as in I have the right to serve you refuse (trash)
Someone who understands English needs to explain to me this.
Refuse, as in I don't want your business.
Refuse, as in I have the right to serve you refuse (trash)
Meta replied with this 11 years ago, 2 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #544,960
@544,949 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
I just believe that commerce and indeed as much human interaction as possible should be conducted on a voluntary basis. For commerce that would mean willing buyer/willing seller with either party free to refuse for any or no reason.
I just believe that commerce and indeed as much human interaction as possible should be conducted on a voluntary basis. For commerce that would mean willing buyer/willing seller with either party free to refuse for any or no reason.
Anonymous J replied with this 11 years ago, 45 seconds later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #544,961
FUCK ISLAM
Anonymous O replied with this 11 years ago, 2 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #544,963
Syntax replied with this 11 years ago, 3 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #544,964
@previous (O)
Oh yea. I can just see Aliens some day trying to figure out the IQ of those who speak English. 250,000 years of human growth and one can write
I think I have the right to refuse you service but if you are willing to pay for it I will sell you refuse.
Oh yea. I can just see Aliens some day trying to figure out the IQ of those who speak English. 250,000 years of human growth and one can write
I think I have the right to refuse you service but if you are willing to pay for it I will sell you refuse.
dw replied with this 11 years ago, 28 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #544,966
@544,954 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
A law wouldn't change the bakers' opinion on different sexualities, though. Education and campaigning would be better solutions.
I also think simply denying service to someone is different to calling someone a faggot.
Also, this particular case is basically a non-issue since 9 out of 10 bakers are gay and/or transgendered.
A law wouldn't change the bakers' opinion on different sexualities, though. Education and campaigning would be better solutions.
I also think simply denying service to someone is different to calling someone a faggot.
Also, this particular case is basically a non-issue since 9 out of 10 bakers are gay and/or transgendered.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 11 years ago, 28 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #544,967
@544,958 (O)
Of course they do. They disallow discrimination based upon bigoted beliefs. The alternative is for the laws to be absent, and businesspeople to turn away people for bigoted reasons.
@544,960 (Meta)
And I'm of the opinion that curbing discrimination is more important than maintaining a completely honest and voluntary business interaction. I suppose we may have fundamentally different opinions on what is more important here.
@previous (dw)
Of course it wouldn't change their opinion on its own, and I'd advocate education regardless. That's a good thing in general. But it does protect against discrimination all the same.
And while this is of course different to simply calling someone a faggot, it'd still be hurtful to experience it. I mean, I'd imagine that you wouldn't feel too good if you went into a shop abroad and they said "sorry, no Dutch people".
Of course they do. They disallow discrimination based upon bigoted beliefs. The alternative is for the laws to be absent, and businesspeople to turn away people for bigoted reasons.
@544,960 (Meta)
And I'm of the opinion that curbing discrimination is more important than maintaining a completely honest and voluntary business interaction. I suppose we may have fundamentally different opinions on what is more important here.
@previous (dw)
Of course it wouldn't change their opinion on its own, and I'd advocate education regardless. That's a good thing in general. But it does protect against discrimination all the same.
And while this is of course different to simply calling someone a faggot, it'd still be hurtful to experience it. I mean, I'd imagine that you wouldn't feel too good if you went into a shop abroad and they said "sorry, no Dutch people".
Anonymous O replied with this 11 years ago, 27 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #544,972
@previous (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)Should this business be forced to serve Israeli people? They are not discriminating against Jews, just assholes. How is that different?
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 11 years ago, 9 minutes later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #544,974
@previous (O)
Are you Leonidas?
Anyway, not wanting to serve disruptive people is fine. Refusing a whole nationality isn't okay, and isn't comparable to refusing service based on behaviour.
Are you Leonidas?
Anyway, not wanting to serve disruptive people is fine. Refusing a whole nationality isn't okay, and isn't comparable to refusing service based on behaviour.
Anonymous P joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 3 minutes later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #544,975
@544,972 (O)
They are rude. Refusing to admit the people that gave birth to baby Jesus. Blow that hotel up please.
They are rude. Refusing to admit the people that gave birth to baby Jesus. Blow that hotel up please.
Anonymous Q joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 1 day later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #545,190
@544,974 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
No, Leo would post something like this: http://www.redressonline.com/2015/03/german-jewish-family-recount-ordeal-of-living-in-israel/
No, Leo would post something like this: http://www.redressonline.com/2015/03/german-jewish-family-recount-ordeal-of-living-in-israel/
Green joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 3 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #545,236
Yes. And if they were forced to make a cake for gays, I would hope they rubbed vagina all over it.