Topic: Which is worse
kook !!mCVqftDha started this discussion 11 years ago #40,426
Being a racist or being a transphobe?
| Poll option | Votes | Percentage | Graph |
|---|---|---|---|
| White privilege | 4 | 50% | |
| Cis privilege | 4 | 50% |
Meta joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 5 minutes later[^] [v] #538,170
It's a tough question. No one chooses their race or whether or not to be transsexual. Discriminating against either is, in my opinion, abhorrent.
Anonymous C joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 35 minutes later, 40 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #538,177
Which is worse, being a nigger or being a tranny?
being a nigger tranny
being a nigger tranny
Meta replied with this 11 years ago, 10 minutes later, 51 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #538,180
If you put a gun to my head, though, I'd say having cis privilege is better. As a minority, you may face oppression from whites but you'll still have cis privilege and be accepted as a full member of society. As a transsexual (a serious one where you have to transition) you run the risk of not passing and being rejected by not only your own race, but all races.
kook !!mCVqftDha (OP) replied with this 11 years ago, 13 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #538,184
Meta replied with this 11 years ago, 4 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #538,187
@previous (kook !!mCVqftDha)
Again, I mean for serious transsexuals who cannot live in their biological gender. Suppose you're a cis black person. You'll probably face some amount of racism from whites and other races which may hamper your socioeconomic advancement but you'll still be a full member of the black community and be seen as an equal by all black people. But if you're a white transsexual who doesn't pass, you'll be seen as a freak by almost everyone of every race which I think would be worse.
Again, I mean for serious transsexuals who cannot live in their biological gender. Suppose you're a cis black person. You'll probably face some amount of racism from whites and other races which may hamper your socioeconomic advancement but you'll still be a full member of the black community and be seen as an equal by all black people. But if you're a white transsexual who doesn't pass, you'll be seen as a freak by almost everyone of every race which I think would be worse.
Triptych !!/xkPL9myM joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 7 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #538,188
Both are shitty, dude.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 14 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #538,190
Depends on who you're around at the time.
But Trip's right, they're still both bad things to be. And it's certainly possible to be neither.
But Trip's right, they're still both bad things to be. And it's certainly possible to be neither.
Anonymous C replied with this 11 years ago, 33 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #538,193
Anonymous F joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 4 hours later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #538,238
Neither.Anonymous G joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 1 hour later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #538,260
You are what you are and to act in spite of that is not normal.
FuckAlms !vX8K53rFBI joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 1 hour later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #538,279
kook !!mCVqftDha (OP) replied with this 11 years ago, 13 hours later, 23 hours after the original post[^] [v] #538,418
@538,187 (Meta)
That might be true. But you really dont see people pretending to be black. You definitely do see people pretending to be trans. This skews things.
That might be true. But you really dont see people pretending to be black. You definitely do see people pretending to be trans. This skews things.
Anonymous I joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 16 minutes later, 23 hours after the original post[^] [v] #538,423
@previous (kook !!mCVqftDha)
> But you really dont see people pretending to be black
Not anymore, maybe.
> But you really dont see people pretending to be black
Not anymore, maybe.
Anonymous J joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 14 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #538,491
@538,418 (kook !!mCVqftDha)
have you missed the entire rap culture? i also dont see how that is even relevant.
have you missed the entire rap culture? i also dont see how that is even relevant.
Anonymous J double-posted this 11 years ago, 42 seconds later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #538,492
@538,193 (C)
its fine if they don't try to dress up like the opposite gender and wind up looking really disturbing.
its fine if they don't try to dress up like the opposite gender and wind up looking really disturbing.
Meta replied with this 11 years ago, 18 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #538,493
@538,418 (kook !!mCVqftDha)
I suppose there are some trans people who just do it for fun or a kick but there are a lot of real ones who cannot live in their biological sex and do not choose their condition any more than black people choose the amount of melanin they have. In my view it's more defensible to discriminate against people based on the choices they make. As far as I can see, sexual orientation, transsexuality and race aren't choices.
I do think racial dysphoria and transraciality are real though for some reason seem to be more rare. I do think Michael Jackson was transracial.
I suppose there are some trans people who just do it for fun or a kick but there are a lot of real ones who cannot live in their biological sex and do not choose their condition any more than black people choose the amount of melanin they have. In my view it's more defensible to discriminate against people based on the choices they make. As far as I can see, sexual orientation, transsexuality and race aren't choices.
I do think racial dysphoria and transraciality are real though for some reason seem to be more rare. I do think Michael Jackson was transracial.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 11 years ago, 17 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #538,494
@previous (Meta)
Transraciality, IMO, can't have a biological basis. So it must be the result of a person placing great emphasis on race and identifying strongly with their idea of another race.
I think it's a shame that a person would feel so strongly that different races are so different, but I suppose it's to be expected in a world where races can sometimes be pretty seperate.
Transraciality, IMO, can't have a biological basis. So it must be the result of a person placing great emphasis on race and identifying strongly with their idea of another race.
I think it's a shame that a person would feel so strongly that different races are so different, but I suppose it's to be expected in a world where races can sometimes be pretty seperate.
Meta replied with this 11 years ago, 32 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #538,495
@previous (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
I think it's an instinct to feel more comfortable around people who look like you. I could see sticking together in tight families, tribes, clans, etc having an evolutionary advantage leading to feeling better around people who look like you and seeing different looking people as a danger.
I mean not necessarily a danger but just different. I notice in things like schools where every effort has been made to integrate theres still a lot of self-segregation.
I think it's an instinct to feel more comfortable around people who look like you. I could see sticking together in tight families, tribes, clans, etc having an evolutionary advantage leading to feeling better around people who look like you and seeing different looking people as a danger.
I mean not necessarily a danger but just different. I notice in things like schools where every effort has been made to integrate theres still a lot of self-segregation.
(Edited 6 minutes later.)
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 11 years ago, 48 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #538,499
@previous (Meta)
Oh yeah, definitely. There is a lot of "us and them" mentality in the human psyche, as it was indeed an evolutionary advantage previously. We can form impromptu social groups on the fly, if the situation demands it. But in regards to what you said, that's not just limited to appearance. We see the same shit with nationality or even a shared situation.
Also, self-segregation in schools can be fixed (or at least decreased). There were some studies where researchers were able to overcome it by having kids form multiple-race groups to work on tasks together. IIRC, it had a long-term effect on lessening the segregation too.
Anyway, applying this to transracial people, I suppose that they're identifying more with a perceived culture rather than a skin colour. So they take on the "us them" mentality from the side of the culture they're identifying with, to some extent.
Oh yeah, definitely. There is a lot of "us and them" mentality in the human psyche, as it was indeed an evolutionary advantage previously. We can form impromptu social groups on the fly, if the situation demands it. But in regards to what you said, that's not just limited to appearance. We see the same shit with nationality or even a shared situation.
Also, self-segregation in schools can be fixed (or at least decreased). There were some studies where researchers were able to overcome it by having kids form multiple-race groups to work on tasks together. IIRC, it had a long-term effect on lessening the segregation too.
Anyway, applying this to transracial people, I suppose that they're identifying more with a perceived culture rather than a skin colour. So they take on the "us them" mentality from the side of the culture they're identifying with, to some extent.
FuckAlms !vX8K53rFBI replied with this 11 years ago, 41 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #538,518
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 11 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #538,519
FuckAlms !vX8K53rFBI replied with this 11 years ago, 6 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #538,520
Meta replied with this 11 years ago, 1 hour later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #538,523
@538,499 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
I think the us-and-them perception shifts based on the lowest common denominator. I was thinking about this driving home, and if you take an all-black area in sub-Saharan Africa - like Rwanda - you can see massive hate and rivalry between two tribes, like the Hutu and Tutsi who, from my point of view as an American are essentially indistinguishable. Now I think if you took some Hutu and Tutsi people and moved them to America, they'd stop being Hutu and Tutsi and start being "black" because there's so much greater difference between what Americans call "white" and either tribe. And vice versa if you moved, say, some Ukrainians and Russians into Rwanda. So the us-and-them can scale all the way from other families to other races. I see racialism as simply the largest scale us-and-them and I think it's what many SJWs fail to grasp. Even in Rwanda where there is just one race there will still be power and oppression differentials. There will always be an us-and-them (ranging from vague distrust to outright genocide) even in monoracial areas. I guess large scale racial mixing ala Brazil could go a long way toward solving it, but society would still be divided among religious, geographical, political, or national lines or they'd switch to something like eye color as the new race.
I think the us-and-them perception shifts based on the lowest common denominator. I was thinking about this driving home, and if you take an all-black area in sub-Saharan Africa - like Rwanda - you can see massive hate and rivalry between two tribes, like the Hutu and Tutsi who, from my point of view as an American are essentially indistinguishable. Now I think if you took some Hutu and Tutsi people and moved them to America, they'd stop being Hutu and Tutsi and start being "black" because there's so much greater difference between what Americans call "white" and either tribe. And vice versa if you moved, say, some Ukrainians and Russians into Rwanda. So the us-and-them can scale all the way from other families to other races. I see racialism as simply the largest scale us-and-them and I think it's what many SJWs fail to grasp. Even in Rwanda where there is just one race there will still be power and oppression differentials. There will always be an us-and-them (ranging from vague distrust to outright genocide) even in monoracial areas. I guess large scale racial mixing ala Brazil could go a long way toward solving it, but society would still be divided among religious, geographical, political, or national lines or they'd switch to something like eye color as the new race.
(Edited 2 minutes later.)
FuckAlms !vX8K53rFBI replied with this 11 years ago, 4 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #538,525
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 11 years ago, 10 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #538,526
@538,523 (Meta)
> I see racialism as simply the largest scale us-and-them and I think it's what many SJWs fail to grasp.
I see what you mean. It feels like a lot of them have an ethnocentric take on things, wherein they'll view whites as the ultimate oppressors and all that but really the same stuff happens all over the world. Now that's not to say that white racism isn't a problem in the western world, but it's not the only example out there is what I'm saying.
> society would still be divided among religious, geographical, political, or national lines
While I agree, I still think it's worth striving to work against these differences. Progressiveism has definitely had some effect, what with groups like gays or other races being generally more accepted than before.
> something like eye color as the new race.
Heh, it's funnny you said that actually. There's a psychologist who did that as an experiment. Got kids to form opposing groups based on eye colour.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_the_Storm_%281970_film%29
> I see racialism as simply the largest scale us-and-them and I think it's what many SJWs fail to grasp.
I see what you mean. It feels like a lot of them have an ethnocentric take on things, wherein they'll view whites as the ultimate oppressors and all that but really the same stuff happens all over the world. Now that's not to say that white racism isn't a problem in the western world, but it's not the only example out there is what I'm saying.
> society would still be divided among religious, geographical, political, or national lines
While I agree, I still think it's worth striving to work against these differences. Progressiveism has definitely had some effect, what with groups like gays or other races being generally more accepted than before.
> something like eye color as the new race.
Heh, it's funnny you said that actually. There's a psychologist who did that as an experiment. Got kids to form opposing groups based on eye colour.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_the_Storm_%281970_film%29
Anonymous I replied with this 11 years ago, 1 hour later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #538,537
@538,523 (Meta)
> I guess large scale racial mixing ala Brazil could go a long way toward solving it
It doesn't solves shit, because it's never large scale enough. Despite what propagandists say, Brazil is not one big happy brown blob where everyone is mixed and proud.
Unless you set up some SJW dystopia where everyone is artifically bred to be exactly 33,3% white, 33,3% black and 33,3% asian, or took on a very long timespan, with all the races converging together until a new identity is born, like anglo-saxons, britons, romans, danes, norwegians, etc, converged to become english.
> I guess large scale racial mixing ala Brazil could go a long way toward solving it
It doesn't solves shit, because it's never large scale enough. Despite what propagandists say, Brazil is not one big happy brown blob where everyone is mixed and proud.
Unless you set up some SJW dystopia where everyone is artifically bred to be exactly 33,3% white, 33,3% black and 33,3% asian, or took on a very long timespan, with all the races converging together until a new identity is born, like anglo-saxons, britons, romans, danes, norwegians, etc, converged to become english.
squeegee joined in and replied with this 11 years ago, 3 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #538,544
@previous (I)
really what i'm waiting for is the mixing and merging and convergences that create the next iteration of human. it'll be a weird time, then, when scientists tell us we have evolved a more "sophisticated than human race" and differences are more than superficial
really what i'm waiting for is the mixing and merging and convergences that create the next iteration of human. it'll be a weird time, then, when scientists tell us we have evolved a more "sophisticated than human race" and differences are more than superficial
(Edited 18 seconds later.)
FuckAlms !vX8K53rFBI replied with this 11 years ago, 10 hours later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #538,567
Anonymous I replied with this 11 years ago, 30 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #538,571
kook !!mCVqftDha (OP) replied with this 11 years ago, 7 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #538,573
FuckAlms !vX8K53rFBI replied with this 11 years ago, 4 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #538,574
Anonymous I replied with this 11 years ago, 23 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #538,578
@previous (FuckAlms !vX8K53rFBI)
and we have the methods to it readily avaliable, and it's sure to work, while mass engineering the human species would take milleniums and it would be a gamble.
nuking things always make life easier.
and we have the methods to it readily avaliable, and it's sure to work, while mass engineering the human species would take milleniums and it would be a gamble.
nuking things always make life easier.
(Edited 16 seconds later.)
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 11 years ago, 11 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #538,579
@538,571 (I)
It would mean less tension between humans. Or at least less reason for tension.
@538,573 (kook !!mCVqftDha)
Of course it wouldn't. Nobody even said that?
It would mean less tension between humans. Or at least less reason for tension.
@538,573 (kook !!mCVqftDha)
Of course it wouldn't. Nobody even said that?
squeegee replied with this 11 years ago, 6 hours later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #538,629
@538,571 (I)
what? i didn't, i said humans will evolve into 2 different races, one being human (us) and the other being a more advanced and biologically distinct human (not us)
that's not saying everyone is going to be the same. I am, in fact, saying that humans are growing more and more different
what? i didn't, i said humans will evolve into 2 different races, one being human (us) and the other being a more advanced and biologically distinct human (not us)
that's not saying everyone is going to be the same. I am, in fact, saying that humans are growing more and more different