Topic: ATTN: Mr Misanthrope
!34Kas0OdzM started this discussion 15 years ago #3,918
> [...]thought "bulk & cut" was the way to go until I found some material and individuals who have found lifestyle
> solutions to sustaining indefinite clean bulks. They just keep lifting hard, heavy and frequently, and if they're going
> to have a "buff" appearance it comes from their hard physical exertion and they're always lean. That way their lean &
> buff appearance is just part of who they are, rather than an unstable transition state between fat fuck and fat fuck
> like it is with the "bulk & cut" system.
> I've been impressed for quite a while with the results I've seen from ketogenic dieting for quite some time.
> Some really obscure literature I've found provides info on avoiding the energy losses from ketosis without the use of
> token carbohydrates, so knowing that I'm semiregularly in ketosis. Not 100% of the time because I'm just not that strict.
> To me, there is only one physical ideal in this world, and bodybuilding, powerlifting and strength athletics are each >
> just a fragment of it. I like to think that one physical ideal is something natural, that can be obtained by low tech
> and simple methods and a lot of hard work to become a persisting change to a person's physiology
Any other tips you have to share?
Cyclic Ketogenic Diet sounds pretty interesting to me, but I'd like to hear of this "obscure" literature you found.
waht do you think og http://leangains.com ?
> solutions to sustaining indefinite clean bulks. They just keep lifting hard, heavy and frequently, and if they're going
> to have a "buff" appearance it comes from their hard physical exertion and they're always lean. That way their lean &
> buff appearance is just part of who they are, rather than an unstable transition state between fat fuck and fat fuck
> like it is with the "bulk & cut" system.
> I've been impressed for quite a while with the results I've seen from ketogenic dieting for quite some time.
> Some really obscure literature I've found provides info on avoiding the energy losses from ketosis without the use of
> token carbohydrates, so knowing that I'm semiregularly in ketosis. Not 100% of the time because I'm just not that strict.
> To me, there is only one physical ideal in this world, and bodybuilding, powerlifting and strength athletics are each >
> just a fragment of it. I like to think that one physical ideal is something natural, that can be obtained by low tech
> and simple methods and a lot of hard work to become a persisting change to a person's physiology
Any other tips you have to share?
Cyclic Ketogenic Diet sounds pretty interesting to me, but I'd like to hear of this "obscure" literature you found.
waht do you think og http://leangains.com ?
(Edited 2 minutes later.)
Mister Misanthrope joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later[^] [v] #70,516
Yes if you eat chicken you shall be muscular.
Anonymous C joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 2 hours later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #70,538
Nega !34Kas0OdzM joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 9 hours later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #70,771
Mister Misanthrope !NPN/W33CeE joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 1 hour later, 13 hours after the original post[^] [v] #70,870
I haven't looked into cyclic ketogenic dieting solely because I don't like to try to learn anything that isn't easily incorporated into a lifestyle. I don't count my weights, I don't have a set/rep scheme and I don't count anything about my diet. Cyclic ketogenic dieting has produced amazing results for some.
All I know is that from my own experience, if my diet is all meat, I get skinny. If I start to eat/drink sugary crap, I get fat. If I consume cod liver oil and grass fed organ meats, my teeth get strong, my skin gets clear and my hair gets shiny, and I stop having cravings for anything. If I do not consume those things, I get cravings and fuck up my diet with sugar.
I'll look at LeanGains and tell you what I think.
@70,516 (Mister Misanthrope)
No trip, no deal.
All I know is that from my own experience, if my diet is all meat, I get skinny. If I start to eat/drink sugary crap, I get fat. If I consume cod liver oil and grass fed organ meats, my teeth get strong, my skin gets clear and my hair gets shiny, and I stop having cravings for anything. If I do not consume those things, I get cravings and fuck up my diet with sugar.
I'll look at LeanGains and tell you what I think.
@70,516 (Mister Misanthrope)
No trip, no deal.
Mister Misanthrope !NPN/W33CeE double-posted this 15 years ago, 3 hours later, 16 hours after the original post[^] [v] #71,146
My opinion of LeanGains is that it's pretty well stocked with info and that I'll have to take some time to field test it and see what works and what doesn't.
It looks like it has a positive opinion of Alan Aragon, which sends mixed messages to me. He and I have butted heads on the topic of nutrition before. He seems to have his mind closed to ideas that are not his, regardless of how well supported it is by scientific literature. Seeing as he's a bodybuilder, he probably knows how to get lean pretty well. That is their area of expertise, after all.
It looks like it has a positive opinion of Alan Aragon, which sends mixed messages to me. He and I have butted heads on the topic of nutrition before. He seems to have his mind closed to ideas that are not his, regardless of how well supported it is by scientific literature. Seeing as he's a bodybuilder, he probably knows how to get lean pretty well. That is their area of expertise, after all.
Anonymous C replied with this 15 years ago, 6 hours later, 23 hours after the original post[^] [v] #71,281
@previous (Mister Misanthrope !NPN/W33CeE)
@previous (Mister Misanthrope !NPN/W33CeE)
Why do you faaaart so much?
@previous (Mister Misanthrope !NPN/W33CeE)
Why do you faaaart so much?
Mister Misanthrope !NPN/W33CeE replied with this 15 years ago, 8 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #71,377
Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4 joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 3 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #71,459
This thread made me read up on ketosis and the ketogenic dieting, and I'm definitely doing it. It's only going to take some modifications to my current diet.
Nega !34Kas0OdzM replied with this 15 years ago, 47 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #71,509
@71,146 (Mister Misanthrope !NPN/W33CeE)Hey, thanks a lot man!
Which other people dealing with nutrition/bodybuilding do you know?
@70,870 (Mister Misanthrope !NPN/W33CeE)
Soft drinks are probably one of the worst inventions in the area of food man has ever come up with.
How does Cod live oil taste?
@previous (Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4)
Always glad to give other people some inspiration. :)
Mister Misanthrope !NPN/W33CeE replied with this 15 years ago, 38 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #71,531
@previous (Nega !34Kas0OdzM)
To be honest, liver oil tastes like pig shit. I get the emulsified flavored kind. I get it in orange flavor, you can't even taste the fish. That makes the whole thing much more doable.
To be honest, liver oil tastes like pig shit. I get the emulsified flavored kind. I get it in orange flavor, you can't even taste the fish. That makes the whole thing much more doable.
Triptych !!DP4/G/5A6 joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 6 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #71,537
Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4 replied with this 15 years ago, 30 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #71,577
@71,509 (Nega !34Kas0OdzM)
I'm starting a sort of Ketogenic diet, and I get a lot of calories from olive oil. Basically, it's a diet where you get most of your calories from unsaturated fat, adequate protein, and zero to very few carbs. You basically fast for an entire day, still get plenty of exercise, and then get a good night's sleep. You basically want to put your body into a starvation mode and force it to burn fat. The next day, you eat a diet where about 80% of your calories come from unsaturated fats, and you go to gym or whatever and still vigorously work out. This basically forces your body's metabolism to switch gears and go into fat burning mode. Your body goes into a metabolic state of ketosis, where it breaks down fats into ketones and relies on the ketones for energy rather than glucose. The reason this is so important, is because if you're on a diet of protein and carbs, even if you burn way more calories than you take it, your body will not start to immediately burn its fat reserves. Instead, it wants to cling to the glucose phase of metabolism as long as it can, shifting gears and burning your fat reserves only as a last resort, so your body will start breaking down protein into glucose before it starts burning fat, but you need that protein to build muscle. Your body will even burn your own muscle mass, before burning fat, to supply itself with glucose. This is why bodybuilders often use a "bulk and cut" method of diet and exercise where they try to bulk up and build as much muscle as possible, followed by trying to cut down on their weight by losing as much fat and as little muscle as possible (but they always lose muscle!) What's amazing about this diet is that it forces your body's metabolism to switch gears. You force it into the state of ketosis where it's burning fat, by making fat the only energy source available. Once your body is in a state of ketosis though, it's hesitant to switch gears, in the same way that it was hesitant to switch away from glucose. So once you're in ketosis, you can up your protein and carb intake (while still keeping the majority of your calories as unsaturated fat) and it will stay in ketosis. So you can eat protein to build muscle, but as long as you're exercising and burning more calories than you're taking in, your body will be burning your fat for energy, rather than the protein you need for your muscles for energy. So you can lose fat, get in shape, and build muscle all at the same time without using the bulk and cut method to get the lean cut look.
There are also a lot of other great benefits to the diet. Your brain and heart actually prefer ketone energy of glucose energy, and once they've adjusted they actually work at 25% higher efficiency. It lowers your insulin levels to nearly zero, which completely inhibits fat storage, while forcing your body to burn its fat reserves. It also naturally increases your testosterone and human growth hormone levels, so it's almost like getting steroid and HGH injections, without the costs, risks, or side effects. There are a few downsides that are easily countered. One, is that during the first week of the diet, you will feel hungry, fatigued, and lethargic. This is your body's natural response when it thinks you're starving. It's trying to slow down your metabolism to try and make you conserve as much energy as possible. This is countered with appetite suppressants, stimulants, and exercise to keep your metabolism up. I take adderall for ADHD, which in addition to improving my brain function and willpower, is also a powerful stimulant and appetite suppressant. I also drink extra strength 5-hour energies, which contain a multi-B complex for keeping metabolism up. You also want to take a multi-vitamin/mineral supplement to make sure you're getting adequate micro-nutrition. I also take omega-3 fatty acid fish oil pills. The diet can also easily dehydrate you, as it takes more water to metabolize fat, but this is easily countered by drinking lots of water. Also, if you don't burn off the ketones in your blood, this can also dehydrate you as your body tries to flush them out, and can also lead to ketoacidosis, but this won't happen as long as you exercise and burn off the ketones, and this mainly only happens in diabetics. Once you make it past the first week and your body has adjusted to burning ketones, you'll have way more energy than usual and the lethargy will go away, and your appetite will nearly disappear, so the feeling-like-you-are-starving craving will go away too and you can go off the appetite suppressants.
So anyway, all these people who talk about how they eat nothing but meat and fatty foods but always seem to stay thin and never feel hungry, it's because they're basically running on a diet similar to this, and they don't even realize it.
I'm starting a sort of Ketogenic diet, and I get a lot of calories from olive oil. Basically, it's a diet where you get most of your calories from unsaturated fat, adequate protein, and zero to very few carbs. You basically fast for an entire day, still get plenty of exercise, and then get a good night's sleep. You basically want to put your body into a starvation mode and force it to burn fat. The next day, you eat a diet where about 80% of your calories come from unsaturated fats, and you go to gym or whatever and still vigorously work out. This basically forces your body's metabolism to switch gears and go into fat burning mode. Your body goes into a metabolic state of ketosis, where it breaks down fats into ketones and relies on the ketones for energy rather than glucose. The reason this is so important, is because if you're on a diet of protein and carbs, even if you burn way more calories than you take it, your body will not start to immediately burn its fat reserves. Instead, it wants to cling to the glucose phase of metabolism as long as it can, shifting gears and burning your fat reserves only as a last resort, so your body will start breaking down protein into glucose before it starts burning fat, but you need that protein to build muscle. Your body will even burn your own muscle mass, before burning fat, to supply itself with glucose. This is why bodybuilders often use a "bulk and cut" method of diet and exercise where they try to bulk up and build as much muscle as possible, followed by trying to cut down on their weight by losing as much fat and as little muscle as possible (but they always lose muscle!) What's amazing about this diet is that it forces your body's metabolism to switch gears. You force it into the state of ketosis where it's burning fat, by making fat the only energy source available. Once your body is in a state of ketosis though, it's hesitant to switch gears, in the same way that it was hesitant to switch away from glucose. So once you're in ketosis, you can up your protein and carb intake (while still keeping the majority of your calories as unsaturated fat) and it will stay in ketosis. So you can eat protein to build muscle, but as long as you're exercising and burning more calories than you're taking in, your body will be burning your fat for energy, rather than the protein you need for your muscles for energy. So you can lose fat, get in shape, and build muscle all at the same time without using the bulk and cut method to get the lean cut look.
There are also a lot of other great benefits to the diet. Your brain and heart actually prefer ketone energy of glucose energy, and once they've adjusted they actually work at 25% higher efficiency. It lowers your insulin levels to nearly zero, which completely inhibits fat storage, while forcing your body to burn its fat reserves. It also naturally increases your testosterone and human growth hormone levels, so it's almost like getting steroid and HGH injections, without the costs, risks, or side effects. There are a few downsides that are easily countered. One, is that during the first week of the diet, you will feel hungry, fatigued, and lethargic. This is your body's natural response when it thinks you're starving. It's trying to slow down your metabolism to try and make you conserve as much energy as possible. This is countered with appetite suppressants, stimulants, and exercise to keep your metabolism up. I take adderall for ADHD, which in addition to improving my brain function and willpower, is also a powerful stimulant and appetite suppressant. I also drink extra strength 5-hour energies, which contain a multi-B complex for keeping metabolism up. You also want to take a multi-vitamin/mineral supplement to make sure you're getting adequate micro-nutrition. I also take omega-3 fatty acid fish oil pills. The diet can also easily dehydrate you, as it takes more water to metabolize fat, but this is easily countered by drinking lots of water. Also, if you don't burn off the ketones in your blood, this can also dehydrate you as your body tries to flush them out, and can also lead to ketoacidosis, but this won't happen as long as you exercise and burn off the ketones, and this mainly only happens in diabetics. Once you make it past the first week and your body has adjusted to burning ketones, you'll have way more energy than usual and the lethargy will go away, and your appetite will nearly disappear, so the feeling-like-you-are-starving craving will go away too and you can go off the appetite suppressants.
So anyway, all these people who talk about how they eat nothing but meat and fatty foods but always seem to stay thin and never feel hungry, it's because they're basically running on a diet similar to this, and they don't even realize it.
Mister Misanthrope !NPN/W33CeE joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 1 hour later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #71,659
@previous (Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4)
yes. There's actually a way to make your diet hyperfortified with vitamins and minerals of every kind on that sort of diet, so you not only do not suffer deficiencies but actually enjoy a greater standard of health than people who aren't on that sort of diet.
yes. There's actually a way to make your diet hyperfortified with vitamins and minerals of every kind on that sort of diet, so you not only do not suffer deficiencies but actually enjoy a greater standard of health than people who aren't on that sort of diet.
Baby Doll joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 1 hour later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #71,737
Cod liver oil tastes fine in my opinion. Never needed a flavoured one. It only starts to taste really bad when it's expired.
Falco !PZmcClOUDk joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #71,741
Triptych !!DP4/G/5A6 replied with this 15 years ago, 1 second later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #71,742
Baby Doll replied with this 15 years ago, 32 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #71,761
@previous (Triptych !!DP4/G/5A6)
> ...How old does cod liver oil have to be for it to be expired?
This info should be on the label. The expiration time for unopened bottles is approximately 1-3 years. When you open it you have to keep it in the fridge and the label on my bottle tells to use it in about 7 weeks once you've opened it.
You will run out of it in about 7 weeks anyway if you take it as prescribed in the label.
I think it's still okay after 7 weeks aswell though. When it's fresh it has a fresh fishy taste. The older it gets the worse it starts to taste.
I live in Europe and this is my experience. Read the labels.
> ...How old does cod liver oil have to be for it to be expired?
This info should be on the label. The expiration time for unopened bottles is approximately 1-3 years. When you open it you have to keep it in the fridge and the label on my bottle tells to use it in about 7 weeks once you've opened it.
You will run out of it in about 7 weeks anyway if you take it as prescribed in the label.
I think it's still okay after 7 weeks aswell though. When it's fresh it has a fresh fishy taste. The older it gets the worse it starts to taste.
I live in Europe and this is my experience. Read the labels.
(Edited 2 minutes later.)
Triptych !!DP4/G/5A6 replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #71,764
@previous (Baby Doll)
Dude, seriously?
My mom used to feed me years-old cod liver oil. :< No wonder it was disgusting...
Dude, seriously?
My mom used to feed me years-old cod liver oil. :< No wonder it was disgusting...
Mister Misanthrope !NPN/W33CeE replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #71,767
@previous (Triptych !!DP4/G/5A6)
So she fed you curdled fish fat? Lovely. Did it even run like oil, or did it jiggle like jello?
So she fed you curdled fish fat? Lovely. Did it even run like oil, or did it jiggle like jello?
Triptych !!DP4/G/5A6 replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #71,769
@previous (Mister Misanthrope !NPN/W33CeE)
It ran like oil. It was a bit thicker than, say, canola oil, though. I think that's normal, though.
I used to just spit it out when she wasn't looking. But sometimes that didn't work...
It ran like oil. It was a bit thicker than, say, canola oil, though. I think that's normal, though.
I used to just spit it out when she wasn't looking. But sometimes that didn't work...
Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4 replied with this 15 years ago, 3 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #71,976
@71,741 (Falco !PZmcClOUDk)
What makes you say that? I've seen nothing negative about it, and what would be the point of "propaganda" if the sources I'm finding this information from are not trying to sell me anything and have no vested interest in what sort of foods I eat?
What makes you say that? I've seen nothing negative about it, and what would be the point of "propaganda" if the sources I'm finding this information from are not trying to sell me anything and have no vested interest in what sort of foods I eat?
Nega !34Kas0OdzM replied with this 15 years ago, 2 days later, 4 days after the original post[^] [v] #73,745
@previous (Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4)
Just ignore it man.
@71,577 (Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4)
...I read the same info as you apparently, but you just have this knack for presentation I am still working on. ;)
@71,531 (Mister Misanthrope !NPN/W33CeE)
> flavoured
Why does this sound like a bad idea?
Dosage?
@71,537 (Triptych !!DP4/G/5A6)
@71,764 (Triptych !!DP4/G/5A6)
Now the old horror stories come back.
Nice. :D
Just ignore it man.
@71,577 (Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4)
...I read the same info as you apparently, but you just have this knack for presentation I am still working on. ;)
@71,531 (Mister Misanthrope !NPN/W33CeE)
> flavoured
Why does this sound like a bad idea?
Dosage?
@71,537 (Triptych !!DP4/G/5A6)
@71,764 (Triptych !!DP4/G/5A6)
Now the old horror stories come back.
Nice. :D
Mister Misanthrope !NPN/W33CeE replied with this 15 years ago, 8 hours later, 4 days after the original post[^] [v] #74,133
@previous (Nega !34Kas0OdzM)
The flavor overpowers the fish flavor 100%. Trust me, it's better that way. No dosage, just take a swig a few times a day.
The flavor overpowers the fish flavor 100%. Trust me, it's better that way. No dosage, just take a swig a few times a day.