Topic: FAO: Minichan gender trolls
Anonymous A started this discussion 12 years ago #36,032
The Oregon public now covers treatments for gender dysphoria. How mad are you?
http://www.basicrights.org/resources/faq-on-oregon-health-plan-coverage-for-gender-dysphoria/
http://www.basicrights.org/resources/faq-on-oregon-health-plan-coverage-for-gender-dysphoria/
Dr. !RT0ond5yGU joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 3 minutes later[^] [v] #493,148
I am furious! This shows a clear disregard for Euclidean grammar physics and gender neurological topological chemical surveys that result in disproving the hoax of the fluid gender movement, as perpetrated by corrupt liberal Jewish feminist shapeshiftimg professors.
kook !!32zdfdzi+ joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 24 seconds later, 3 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #493,149
Did you see the requirements? Ouch
Anonymous D joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 2 minutes later, 5 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #493,151
Oh no, $150,000/year out of the $10 Billion healthcare budget!
Trans-people will bankrupt the great state of Oregon!
Trans-people will bankrupt the great state of Oregon!
Dr. !RT0ond5yGU replied with this 12 years ago, 2 minutes later, 7 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #493,152
All of the research says that I am right. Transexuals are a myth.
Anonymous D replied with this 12 years ago, 3 minutes later, 11 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #493,153
@493,149 (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
Seems like pretty much the same requirements as under any other insurance provider that covers GD.
Seems like pretty much the same requirements as under any other insurance provider that covers GD.
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 12 years ago, 5 seconds later, 11 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #493,154
Do you ever namefag?
kook !!32zdfdzi+ double-posted this 12 years ago, 1 minute later, 13 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #493,155
@493,153 (D)
Oh I dont doubt that. I just dont think that many transsexuals will be able to pass these "tests".
Oh I dont doubt that. I just dont think that many transsexuals will be able to pass these "tests".
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 12 years ago, 11 minutes later, 24 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #493,157
Dr. !aL1sLG5aP6 joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 22 seconds later, 25 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #493,158
Who cares. Outside of Amerifaggia the trannies are thankfully well persecuted.
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 12 years ago, 10 minutes later, 36 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #493,159
Anonymous F joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 11 minutes later, 47 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #493,160
xxBEAUTIFUL_TRAGEDYxx joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 6 minutes later, 53 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #493,162
OP supports transphobia by associating with criminal transmisogynist "beckyderp".
http://lardcave.net/text/the_racist_tree.html
http://lardcave.net/text/the_racist_tree.html
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 12 years ago, 11 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #493,164
@493,159 (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
I do all my shitposting anonymously and only namefag infrequently, now
@493,160 (F)
Sup becky
I do all my shitposting anonymously and only namefag infrequently, now
@493,160 (F)
Sup becky
(Edited 3 minutes later.)
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 12 years ago, 16 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #493,168
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 12 years ago, 12 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #493,171
@previous (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
Sexually male and visually masculine; also: raised by my mother, a feminist ally, and strongly opposed to patriarchy.
Sexually male and visually masculine; also: raised by my mother, a feminist ally, and strongly opposed to patriarchy.
Anonymous A (OP) double-posted this 12 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #493,174
@493,168 (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
I vaguely fit within "genderqueer" but know that my white male privileges mean I should shut up and listen more than speak.
I vaguely fit within "genderqueer" but know that my white male privileges mean I should shut up and listen more than speak.
Anonymous H joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 24 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,177
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 12 years ago, 39 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,181
decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 3 hours later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,217
Anonymous J joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 8 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,218
@previous (decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB)
Are you going to end up in tears again because it's natural for mammals to identify males and females?
Are you going to end up in tears again because it's natural for mammals to identify males and females?
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 12 years ago, 9 hours later, 16 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,230
decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB replied with this 12 years ago, 14 minutes later, 16 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,235
@493,218 (J)
Most mammals lack the mental capacity to have gender, though. Using such terminology makes some sense when they, for the most part, aren't capable of giving a fuck.
Most mammals lack the mental capacity to have gender, though. Using such terminology makes some sense when they, for the most part, aren't capable of giving a fuck.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 12 years ago, 14 minutes later, 16 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,238
Anonymous K joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 51 seconds later, 16 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,239
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 12 years ago, 4 minutes later, 16 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,240
@493,238 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
His entitlement is so thick that it rolls off of him in waves. It makes me physically nauseous, and so I want nothing to be explained by him.
His entitlement is so thick that it rolls off of him in waves. It makes me physically nauseous, and so I want nothing to be explained by him.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 12 years ago, 4 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,241
decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB replied with this 12 years ago, 4 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,243
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 12 years ago, 33 seconds later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,244
@493,241 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
I dont want a google search result, I want to hear about the experiences of an actual gender queer.
I dont want a google search result, I want to hear about the experiences of an actual gender queer.
kook !!32zdfdzi+ double-posted this 12 years ago, 1 minute later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,245
@493,243 (decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB)
lol You told me that I need to gender myself to preserve your precious feefeeies. Go away,little boy.
lol You told me that I need to gender myself to preserve your precious feefeeies. Go away,little boy.
decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB replied with this 12 years ago, 5 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,246
@previous (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
So you're agender? If I've been misgendering you, that's actually kinda really fucked up of me and I apologise. x_x
So you're agender? If I've been misgendering you, that's actually kinda really fucked up of me and I apologise. x_x
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 12 years ago, 7 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,247
@previous (decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB)
This is not a sincere apology. I already explained this to you, and you didnt give two fucks.
This is not a sincere apology. I already explained this to you, and you didnt give two fucks.
decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB replied with this 12 years ago, 4 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,248
@previous (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
As far as I remember, your explanation was done entirely within the terms of an attempt to universalise '70s WCW "rad"fem gender abolitionist narratives, as opposed to explaining your gender without trampling on the hundred or so million people in the world who identify against their assignment, or the tens of millions of people whose gender falls outside of the standards imposed by white colonialism.
Tl;dr: stop talking about entitlement until your identity doesn't rely upon erasing and invalidating those of everyone on the planet who isn't fucking cisgender. Just. Stop.
As far as I remember, your explanation was done entirely within the terms of an attempt to universalise '70s WCW "rad"fem gender abolitionist narratives, as opposed to explaining your gender without trampling on the hundred or so million people in the world who identify against their assignment, or the tens of millions of people whose gender falls outside of the standards imposed by white colonialism.
Tl;dr: stop talking about entitlement until your identity doesn't rely upon erasing and invalidating those of everyone on the planet who isn't fucking cisgender. Just. Stop.
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 12 years ago, 4 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,249
@previous (decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB)
Fuck you. My identity doesnt exist to erase or validate you or any other male. Get over yourself.
I will never embrace gender because I dont believe in it, and male feelings wont change that.
Fuck you. My identity doesnt exist to erase or validate you or any other male. Get over yourself.
I will never embrace gender because I dont believe in it, and male feelings wont change that.
(Edited 1 minute later.)
Anonymous K replied with this 12 years ago, 4 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,250
fucking lunatics
decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB replied with this 12 years ago, 2 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,251
@493,249 (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
> laughs about Tumblr
> complains about SJWs
> unironically uses "male" and "female" as nouns for humans
> literally believes that the average person can see everyone else's parts, and make decisions off of that, instead of their presentation or identified gender
Yep. Your ideological priorities are pretty clear, here. Go on! Go on and keep it up with not caring about trans or nonbinary people of all assignments! Go ahead and keep using your position as a presumably white (please correct me if I'm wrong about that!) person in a powerful country who passes perfectly as being a cis woman to steamroll over the genders of people across the fucking planet because of your colonialist gender abolitionist attitude! Keep it up! 11/10! The world's gonna love your racism, transphobia, classism, and imperialism. =3
> laughs about Tumblr
> complains about SJWs
> unironically uses "male" and "female" as nouns for humans
> literally believes that the average person can see everyone else's parts, and make decisions off of that, instead of their presentation or identified gender
Yep. Your ideological priorities are pretty clear, here. Go on! Go on and keep it up with not caring about trans or nonbinary people of all assignments! Go ahead and keep using your position as a presumably white (please correct me if I'm wrong about that!) person in a powerful country who passes perfectly as being a cis woman to steamroll over the genders of people across the fucking planet because of your colonialist gender abolitionist attitude! Keep it up! 11/10! The world's gonna love your racism, transphobia, classism, and imperialism. =3
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 12 years ago, 54 seconds later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,252
@previous (decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB)
Stop implying that I'm cis, because that is gendering me. I care about all females, gender irrelevant.
Stop implying that I'm cis, because that is gendering me. I care about all females, gender irrelevant.
(Edited 1 minute later.)
kook !!32zdfdzi+ double-posted this 12 years ago, 3 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,253
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 12 years ago, 1 minute later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,254
@493,251 (decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB)
Could I ask, in what way is kook being colonialist? Doesn't that word refer to wanting to forcibly colonise and rule over foreign countries?
Could I ask, in what way is kook being colonialist? Doesn't that word refer to wanting to forcibly colonise and rule over foreign countries?
decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB replied with this 12 years ago, 20 seconds later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,255
@493,252 (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
If you cared about "all females", you wouldn't be effectively gendering all trans men and FAAB NB people as women with the term "female". That's their call, not yours.
If you cared about "all females", you wouldn't be effectively gendering all trans men and FAAB NB people as women with the term "female". That's their call, not yours.
decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB double-posted this 12 years ago, 1 minute later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,256
@493,254 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
By trying to push extremist gender abolitionism as a worldwide thing, against the wishes of people in cultures where gender has actually never caused problems. If the gender abolitionist stuff was limited to Western culture, it'd just be transphobic as fuck, but most of these people want to apply it to the whole world, other cultures be damned.
By trying to push extremist gender abolitionism as a worldwide thing, against the wishes of people in cultures where gender has actually never caused problems. If the gender abolitionist stuff was limited to Western culture, it'd just be transphobic as fuck, but most of these people want to apply it to the whole world, other cultures be damned.
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 12 years ago, 14 seconds later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,257
kook !!32zdfdzi+ double-posted this 12 years ago, 1 minute later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,258
@493,256 (decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB)
you're actively trying to push a gender onto me, because your male privilege tells you that its okay.
you're actively trying to push a gender onto me, because your male privilege tells you that its okay.
decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB replied with this 12 years ago, 20 seconds later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,259
@493,257 (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
You're imposing the concept of femaleness upon them, falsely believing it to be some kind of objective "fact" when it's actually still just subjectivity -- I've explained what's wrong with the whole concept of "sex" before, and you've ignored it every time, choosing instead to hold onto your convenient tool with which you can run roughshod over the identities of people whose existence annoys you.
You're imposing the concept of femaleness upon them, falsely believing it to be some kind of objective "fact" when it's actually still just subjectivity -- I've explained what's wrong with the whole concept of "sex" before, and you've ignored it every time, choosing instead to hold onto your convenient tool with which you can run roughshod over the identities of people whose existence annoys you.
decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB double-posted this 12 years ago, 1 minute later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,260
@493,258 (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
And you're actively trying to push a "sex" (which, I hate to say it, is gendered to an astronomical degree) onto people who want nothing to do with your creepy essentialism, as a direct result of your cis(-passing?) privilege. 11/10 on the hypocrisy.
And you're actively trying to push a "sex" (which, I hate to say it, is gendered to an astronomical degree) onto people who want nothing to do with your creepy essentialism, as a direct result of your cis(-passing?) privilege. 11/10 on the hypocrisy.
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 12 years ago, 11 seconds later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,261
kook !!32zdfdzi+ double-posted this 12 years ago, 1 minute later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,262
@493,260 (decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB)
You're fucking insane. I dont need to push a sex onto anyone. You're born with a sex and without a gender. Stop trying to gender me.
You're fucking insane. I dont need to push a sex onto anyone. You're born with a sex and without a gender. Stop trying to gender me.
decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB replied with this 12 years ago, 12 seconds later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,263
@493,261 (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
What do you consider to be sex? I will ask this again and again until you can give a concrete definition that doesn't involve some kind of incredulous "How don't you know?" which relies upon the assumption that the target will buy into cissexist narratives of how human identity is "supposed to" work.
What do you consider to be sex? I will ask this again and again until you can give a concrete definition that doesn't involve some kind of incredulous "How don't you know?" which relies upon the assumption that the target will buy into cissexist narratives of how human identity is "supposed to" work.
decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB double-posted this 12 years ago, 2 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,264
@493,262 (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
Sex is constructed in much the same way gender and race are, though. None of these things are "objective fact". :\
Sex is constructed in much the same way gender and race are, though. None of these things are "objective fact". :\
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 12 years ago, 1 minute later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,265
@493,263 (decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB)
I was born with a vagina, ovaries,uterus. I will no longer respond to you if you call me a woman, or cis.
I was born with a vagina, ovaries,uterus. I will no longer respond to you if you call me a woman, or cis.
kook !!32zdfdzi+ double-posted this 12 years ago, 21 seconds later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,266
decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB replied with this 12 years ago, 50 seconds later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,267
@493,265 (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
I guess your definition is also extremely heavily linked to the "born with" part?
I guess your definition is also extremely heavily linked to the "born with" part?
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 12 years ago, 2 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,271
decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB replied with this 12 years ago, 3 seconds later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,272
@493,266 (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
The term "fact" isn't relevant to discourse about identites, though. It's a matter of social constructs (which, contrary to popular belief, do "exist"!), and identity (which, contrary to what a lot of people say, is valid -- no matter how ridiculous an identity might sound to an average person!).
The term "fact" isn't relevant to discourse about identites, though. It's a matter of social constructs (which, contrary to popular belief, do "exist"!), and identity (which, contrary to what a lot of people say, is valid -- no matter how ridiculous an identity might sound to an average person!).
decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB double-posted this 12 years ago, 2 minutes later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,275
@493,271 (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
Not really, though. You only care about the moment of birth, which is hardly a 100% perfect representation of the reality of someone's life after birth.
You only care about a convenient frame of reference that you can use to exclude people from your club.
Not really, though. You only care about the moment of birth, which is hardly a 100% perfect representation of the reality of someone's life after birth.
You only care about a convenient frame of reference that you can use to exclude people from your club.
dw !jdTkvovFCQ joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 1 minute later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,276
Anonymous K replied with this 12 years ago, 57 seconds later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,277
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 12 years ago, 3 minutes later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,280
decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB replied with this 12 years ago, 12 seconds later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,281
@493,276 (dw !jdTkvovFCQ)
Imagine taking some newborns, of all races, and somehow raising them in a setting entirely, perfectly separated from existing human culture. (Don't actually do this IRL. That would be... yeah. Kinda far outside scientific ethics.) For good measure, take a disproportionate number of intersex ones. They aren't guaranteed to develop the same concepts of identity as us: you can't be sure that they'll have "man" and "woman"; "penis" and "vagina"; "white", "Black", "East Asian", "North American indigenous", etcetera. Those categories are socially constructed; not essential, inherent to the people themselves. And yes! People identify very strongly with these categories, and that's entirely valid! It's just that they aren't inextricably linked to the person; as in, the organism, divorced from their society.
Imagine taking some newborns, of all races, and somehow raising them in a setting entirely, perfectly separated from existing human culture. (Don't actually do this IRL. That would be... yeah. Kinda far outside scientific ethics.) For good measure, take a disproportionate number of intersex ones. They aren't guaranteed to develop the same concepts of identity as us: you can't be sure that they'll have "man" and "woman"; "penis" and "vagina"; "white", "Black", "East Asian", "North American indigenous", etcetera. Those categories are socially constructed; not essential, inherent to the people themselves. And yes! People identify very strongly with these categories, and that's entirely valid! It's just that they aren't inextricably linked to the person; as in, the organism, divorced from their society.
(Edited 44 seconds later.)
beckyderp !8ElfFaoFao replied with this 12 years ago, 11 seconds later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,282
decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB replied with this 12 years ago, 3 minutes later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,284
@previous (beckyderp !8ElfFaoFao)
Not really. The former number is pretty much anyone who's trans or non-binary in any way, and the latter is genders such as hijra, kathoey, two-spirit, and others not found in, and often forced into more "convenient" categories by Western culture.
Not really. The former number is pretty much anyone who's trans or non-binary in any way, and the latter is genders such as hijra, kathoey, two-spirit, and others not found in, and often forced into more "convenient" categories by Western culture.
beckyderp !8ElfFaoFao replied with this 12 years ago, 4 minutes later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,286
@previous (decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB)
Can you provide a source? I can't imagine people without the Internet regularly wake up in the morning and decide they're two-spirit.
Can you provide a source? I can't imagine people without the Internet regularly wake up in the morning and decide they're two-spirit.
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 12 years ago, 2 minutes later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,291
@493,281 (decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB)
Im canine spirited, should I expect people to treat me as such?
Im canine spirited, should I expect people to treat me as such?
decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB replied with this 12 years ago, 52 seconds later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,293
@493,286 (beckyderp !8ElfFaoFao)
...
...
...
...uh, that's actually kinda racist, even if only because of ignorance. There've been two-spirit people in indigenous cultures in Canada and the US for millennia!
...
...
...
...uh, that's actually kinda racist, even if only because of ignorance. There've been two-spirit people in indigenous cultures in Canada and the US for millennia!
decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB double-posted this 12 years ago, 46 seconds later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,294
@493,291 (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
If you weren't joking about that and you were actually dogkin, I wouldn't contest that or anything!
If you weren't joking about that and you were actually dogkin, I wouldn't contest that or anything!
beckyderp !8ElfFaoFao replied with this 12 years ago, 22 seconds later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,295
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 12 years ago, 10 seconds later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,296
kook !!32zdfdzi+ double-posted this 12 years ago, 29 seconds later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,297
Anonymous K replied with this 12 years ago, 1 minute later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,298
@493,281 (decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB)
Yeah, the words are not essential. Any mammal has the capacity to distinguish between male and female, and indeed the males and females have differents "identities" within the group. With race, it's the same thing, except social animals rather identify themselves on basis of genetic tribes and clan/kinship rather than physical attributes and cultures.
Do you think animals all live in genderqueer, non-binary, post-race societies?
Oh wait, you said "the organism, divorced from their society". Sorry, but what else did you expect, an appendix on the liver that controls identity? You don't know a scrap of biology, I think you should refrain talking outside of your "area of expertise"
Yeah, the words are not essential. Any mammal has the capacity to distinguish between male and female, and indeed the males and females have differents "identities" within the group. With race, it's the same thing, except social animals rather identify themselves on basis of genetic tribes and clan/kinship rather than physical attributes and cultures.
Do you think animals all live in genderqueer, non-binary, post-race societies?
Oh wait, you said "the organism, divorced from their society". Sorry, but what else did you expect, an appendix on the liver that controls identity? You don't know a scrap of biology, I think you should refrain talking outside of your "area of expertise"
decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB replied with this 12 years ago, 1 minute later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,299
@493,295 (beckyderp !8ElfFaoFao)
The WP articles for all three provide extensive lists of sources. (Now, to be completely clear, I can only confirm about ten million for the general category of "genders that don't exist in Western culture"), but take a look at them!
@493,296 (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
White-on-white metaphysical "debates" have no place being used to "doubt" the identities of the indigenous people who our ancestors attempted genocide upon and who we still contribute to the socioeconomic oppression of. You're titanically racist and colonialist if you think that you, as a white American, can just waltz into discussion of indigenous genders and tell them that they're wrong. (Full disclosure, I'm white as well. I'm just suggesting you take a good hard look at your position before you make remarks like that in this context.)
The WP articles for all three provide extensive lists of sources. (Now, to be completely clear, I can only confirm about ten million for the general category of "genders that don't exist in Western culture"), but take a look at them!
@493,296 (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
White-on-white metaphysical "debates" have no place being used to "doubt" the identities of the indigenous people who our ancestors attempted genocide upon and who we still contribute to the socioeconomic oppression of. You're titanically racist and colonialist if you think that you, as a white American, can just waltz into discussion of indigenous genders and tell them that they're wrong. (Full disclosure, I'm white as well. I'm just suggesting you take a good hard look at your position before you make remarks like that in this context.)
(Edited 2 minutes later.)
decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB double-posted this 12 years ago, 1 minute later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,300
@493,298 (K)
You're ~completely~ missing the point. What I'm saying is that, given the opportunity to form a new society from a basis of fucking nothing, you wouldn't be guaranteed to get the same social constructs. It's a thought experiment.
You're ~completely~ missing the point. What I'm saying is that, given the opportunity to form a new society from a basis of fucking nothing, you wouldn't be guaranteed to get the same social constructs. It's a thought experiment.
decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB triple-posted this 12 years ago, 17 seconds later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,301
beckyderp !8ElfFaoFao replied with this 12 years ago, 4 seconds later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,302
decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB replied with this 12 years ago, 1 minute later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,303
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 12 years ago, 6 seconds later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,304
@493,299 (decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB)
I think that she's just saying that as a skeptic.
I agree with her. There's never been any compelling evidence for the existence of spirits of any kind. That's not to say that I advocate killing or abusing people with those beliefs, but I do not see their belief in spirits as correct.
I think that she's just saying that as a skeptic.
I agree with her. There's never been any compelling evidence for the existence of spirits of any kind. That's not to say that I advocate killing or abusing people with those beliefs, but I do not see their belief in spirits as correct.
decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB replied with this 12 years ago, 1 minute later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,305
@previous (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
Eh, I'm not going to impose my own metaphysics upon people who I'm involved in the continued colonisation of. I'm already doing enough damage just by being here; as such, I need to take measures to minimise the damage that I do inflict.
Eh, I'm not going to impose my own metaphysics upon people who I'm involved in the continued colonisation of. I'm already doing enough damage just by being here; as such, I need to take measures to minimise the damage that I do inflict.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 12 years ago, 4 minutes later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,306
@previous (decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB)
I don't think that physics can be "imposed" on anyone. It's not subjective, there's factual and objective evidence behind it. And, as it stands, this evidence does not support supernatural beliefs.
As I said, I don't advocate doing anything aggressive to those who do believe these things, but I do say that their beliefs can be rightly called irrational, and I would say this for any such belief regardless of the race of those who believed it. My issue is with the belief itself, ultimately.
I don't think that physics can be "imposed" on anyone. It's not subjective, there's factual and objective evidence behind it. And, as it stands, this evidence does not support supernatural beliefs.
As I said, I don't advocate doing anything aggressive to those who do believe these things, but I do say that their beliefs can be rightly called irrational, and I would say this for any such belief regardless of the race of those who believed it. My issue is with the belief itself, ultimately.
dw !jdTkvovFCQ replied with this 12 years ago, 56 seconds later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,307
@493,281 (decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB)
> Imagine taking some newborns, of all races, and somehow raising them in a setting entirely, perfectly separated from existing human culture. (Don't actually do this IRL. That would be... yeah. Kinda far outside scientific ethics.) For good measure, take a disproportionate number of intersex ones. They aren't guaranteed to develop the same concepts of identity as us: you can't be sure that they'll have "man" and "woman"; "penis" and "vagina"; "white", "Black", "East Asian", "North American indigenous", etcetera. Those categories are socially constructed; not essential, inherent to the people themselves. And yes! People identify very strongly with these categories, and that's entirely valid! It's just that they aren't inextricably linked to the person; as in, the organism, divorced from their society.
It doesn't matter whether or not they have a word for them, they will still have one of two types of genitals (yes i am aware there are exceptions to that rule) which is inherent to human species. I don't understand what part you believe to be a social construct.
> Imagine taking some newborns, of all races, and somehow raising them in a setting entirely, perfectly separated from existing human culture. (Don't actually do this IRL. That would be... yeah. Kinda far outside scientific ethics.) For good measure, take a disproportionate number of intersex ones. They aren't guaranteed to develop the same concepts of identity as us: you can't be sure that they'll have "man" and "woman"; "penis" and "vagina"; "white", "Black", "East Asian", "North American indigenous", etcetera. Those categories are socially constructed; not essential, inherent to the people themselves. And yes! People identify very strongly with these categories, and that's entirely valid! It's just that they aren't inextricably linked to the person; as in, the organism, divorced from their society.
It doesn't matter whether or not they have a word for them, they will still have one of two types of genitals (yes i am aware there are exceptions to that rule) which is inherent to human species. I don't understand what part you believe to be a social construct.
decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB replied with this 12 years ago, 3 minutes later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,308
@493,306 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
Well, at this point, the outright nonexistence of the supernatural is still more of an inference from a lack of explanation for as opposed to conclusive evidence against. So, like, it's totally reasonable to ignore the supernatural in attempts at explaining reality and so on so forth, but when someone's gender, something they identify strongly with, is pinned to a concept often considered antiquated, I don't think there's really much of an excuse to go "lol your're worng" about who they are when you could just.... think about it in a manner that lines up more with your own beliefs while still entirely respecting their identity? Basically, I'm just saying that Epic Science Rationality doesn't warrant "hey bruh, your identity is wrong" or variations on such.
Well, at this point, the outright nonexistence of the supernatural is still more of an inference from a lack of explanation for as opposed to conclusive evidence against. So, like, it's totally reasonable to ignore the supernatural in attempts at explaining reality and so on so forth, but when someone's gender, something they identify strongly with, is pinned to a concept often considered antiquated, I don't think there's really much of an excuse to go "lol your're worng" about who they are when you could just.... think about it in a manner that lines up more with your own beliefs while still entirely respecting their identity? Basically, I'm just saying that Epic Science Rationality doesn't warrant "hey bruh, your identity is wrong" or variations on such.
decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB double-posted this 12 years ago, 3 minutes later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,309
@493,307 (dw !jdTkvovFCQ)
The significance of them, and their nature as being taken as some binary that's more "correct" than statistically less common variations. Penises exist, vaginas exist, things in between the two exist, but... like, we shouldn't really be giving many fucks about them, besides the question of reproduction and medical stuff.
We shouldn't care what bits other people have. We should care about the identity that they show to the world; a much more important aspect of who they are than tiny bits of meat. And this is the fundamental point upon which both MRAs and TERFs become horribly, fatally, disgustingly wrong. They care more about genitals than human beings.
The significance of them, and their nature as being taken as some binary that's more "correct" than statistically less common variations. Penises exist, vaginas exist, things in between the two exist, but... like, we shouldn't really be giving many fucks about them, besides the question of reproduction and medical stuff.
We shouldn't care what bits other people have. We should care about the identity that they show to the world; a much more important aspect of who they are than tiny bits of meat. And this is the fundamental point upon which both MRAs and TERFs become horribly, fatally, disgustingly wrong. They care more about genitals than human beings.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 12 years ago, 2 minutes later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,310
@493,308 (decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB)
They can identify however they want, and I'm fine with that. But I'm not going to agree with their belief in a supernatural element to it.
They can identify however they want, and I'm fine with that. But I'm not going to agree with their belief in a supernatural element to it.
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 12 years ago, 3 minutes later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,311
kook !!32zdfdzi+ double-posted this 12 years ago, 1 minute later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,312
@493,310 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
By saying such things, you're being a white, transphobic, tyrant.
By saying such things, you're being a white, transphobic, tyrant.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 12 years ago, 2 minutes later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,313
@493,310 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
Oh wait, I think I've misunderstood. This belief is that they have two spirits in their bodies, yes? So the whole thing is really just a supernatural belief?
Then yes, I do view it as incorrect as it's based upon an irrational belief. But note that I would say this for any such belief, tied to identity or not, and wouldn't attempt to forcibly make somebody give up such a belief. However, I do believe that skeptics have the right to express their skepticism in such beliefs.
Oh wait, I think I've misunderstood. This belief is that they have two spirits in their bodies, yes? So the whole thing is really just a supernatural belief?
Then yes, I do view it as incorrect as it's based upon an irrational belief. But note that I would say this for any such belief, tied to identity or not, and wouldn't attempt to forcibly make somebody give up such a belief. However, I do believe that skeptics have the right to express their skepticism in such beliefs.
Metæ joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 3 minutes later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,314
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 12 years ago, 1 minute later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,315
Decibel, didnt I ask you if you were white like a week ago, and you said no?
dw !jdTkvovFCQ replied with this 12 years ago, 3 minutes later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,316
@493,309 (decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB)
> The significance of them, and their nature as being taken as some binary that's more "correct" than statistically less common variations. Penises exist, vaginas exist, things in between the two exist, but... like, we shouldn't really be giving many fucks about them, besides the question of reproduction and medical stuff.
>
> We shouldn't care what bits other people have. We should care about the identity that they show to the world; a much more important aspect of who they are than tiny bits of meat. And this is the fundamental point upon which both MRAs and TERFs become horribly, fatally, disgustingly wrong. They care more about genitals than human beings.
But now you are saying the term sex is irrelevant, which I agree with in many scenarios, but before you said that male/female is a social construct, but it's a biological physical reality.
> The significance of them, and their nature as being taken as some binary that's more "correct" than statistically less common variations. Penises exist, vaginas exist, things in between the two exist, but... like, we shouldn't really be giving many fucks about them, besides the question of reproduction and medical stuff.
>
> We shouldn't care what bits other people have. We should care about the identity that they show to the world; a much more important aspect of who they are than tiny bits of meat. And this is the fundamental point upon which both MRAs and TERFs become horribly, fatally, disgustingly wrong. They care more about genitals than human beings.
But now you are saying the term sex is irrelevant, which I agree with in many scenarios, but before you said that male/female is a social construct, but it's a biological physical reality.
Metæ replied with this 12 years ago, 5 minutes later, 19 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,317
@493,256 (decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB)
I find it amazing that you'll rail against gender, and even biological sex as meaningless social constructs but see race as some absolutely real, powerful determinant of every facet of everyones life.
I find it amazing that you'll rail against gender, and even biological sex as meaningless social constructs but see race as some absolutely real, powerful determinant of every facet of everyones life.
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 12 years ago, 1 minute later, 19 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,318
Anonymous N joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 25 minutes later, 19 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,319
Anonymous D replied with this 12 years ago, 1 hour later, 20 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,328
lol when did this become a discussion on the existence of the supernatural? DbmW mentioned a gender called 'two-spirit'; it exists, it has nothing to do with the supernatural.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 12 years ago, 5 minutes later, 20 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,329
@previous (D)
Are spirits not supernatural? And it was only one tangent, didn't take over the thread.
Are spirits not supernatural? And it was only one tangent, didn't take over the thread.
Metæ replied with this 12 years ago, 1 minute later, 20 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,330
@previous (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
Two-spirit could have used "spirit" in the figurative, not literal sense.
Two-spirit could have used "spirit" in the figurative, not literal sense.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 12 years ago, 1 minute later, 20 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,331
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 12 years ago, 16 minutes later, 21 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,332
Metæ replied with this 12 years ago, 4 minutes later, 21 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,333
@493,331 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
Like, in the sense of mind or psyche. Though the Native Americans probably meant it in the supernatural sense.
Like, in the sense of mind or psyche. Though the Native Americans probably meant it in the supernatural sense.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 12 years ago, 1 hour later, 22 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,335
@493,244 (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
I feel awkward around men that talk about their "buddies" and those who get into sports. It doesn't click for me and I don't buy into the tropes of what it means to be a real man. I might write up more later when I'm not on my phone.
I feel awkward around men that talk about their "buddies" and those who get into sports. It doesn't click for me and I don't buy into the tropes of what it means to be a real man. I might write up more later when I'm not on my phone.
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 12 years ago, 10 minutes later, 22 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,337
kook !!32zdfdzi+ double-posted this 12 years ago, 15 minutes later, 23 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,340
So Decibel, seeing as you are a white cis male, would you like to converse with someone who beats you in the Oppression Olympics? She's a female Native American, who is also a lesbian. She grew up on a reservation, where her fourteen year old mother almost starved her to death multiple times. She was then adopted out at the age of five, (after lingering in the system for three years)to a white family who mentally, physically,and sexually abused her.
Anonymous H replied with this 12 years ago, 3 minutes later, 23 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,341
@previous (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
decibelmilliwatts is obviously socially retarded and doesn't go outside or talk to people face to face. If he did he might find out that the world doesn't give a damn what he thinks, and the first tranny he meets will probably punch him in the face and steal his wallet
decibelmilliwatts is obviously socially retarded and doesn't go outside or talk to people face to face. If he did he might find out that the world doesn't give a damn what he thinks, and the first tranny he meets will probably punch him in the face and steal his wallet
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 12 years ago, 10 minutes later, 23 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,343
Anonymous H replied with this 12 years ago, 7 minutes later, 23 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,345
@previous (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
It doesn't matter how the tranny labels themselves, it won't be in agreement with what decibelmilliwatts has read on the internet, so he will have to explain how wrong this person is. And how offensive it is to him personally for someone to have a opinion about themselves.
It doesn't matter how the tranny labels themselves, it won't be in agreement with what decibelmilliwatts has read on the internet, so he will have to explain how wrong this person is. And how offensive it is to him personally for someone to have a opinion about themselves.
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 12 years ago, 2 minutes later, 23 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,347
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 12 years ago, 6 minutes later, 23 hours after the original post[^] [v] #493,350
@493,333 (Metæ)
So... You mean like the idea of a tulpa, basically? Well, the use of spirit would seem to still imply a supernatural angle, but whatever.
So... You mean like the idea of a tulpa, basically? Well, the use of spirit would seem to still imply a supernatural angle, but whatever.
(Edited 14 seconds later.)
beckyderp !8ElfFaoFao replied with this 12 years ago, 6 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #493,380
Anonymous H replied with this 12 years ago, 2 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #493,384
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 12 years ago, 3 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #493,390
@493,380 (beckyderp !8ElfFaoFao)
Nah. I think that they're self-created hallucinations, and have a psychological basis.
Granted, they're very difficult to conclusively measure or prove, but I find it feasible that, with enough extended sessions of concentrating and belief, one could come to genuinely believe in and perceive a so-called "second consciousness" within their mind.
Nah. I think that they're self-created hallucinations, and have a psychological basis.
Granted, they're very difficult to conclusively measure or prove, but I find it feasible that, with enough extended sessions of concentrating and belief, one could come to genuinely believe in and perceive a so-called "second consciousness" within their mind.
Anonymous K replied with this 12 years ago, 3 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #493,415
Metæ replied with this 12 years ago, 2 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #493,460
@493,350 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
Yeah, something like the Green/Bellæ duality. Except the Native Americans didn't have Tesco™ Value cider.
Yeah, something like the Green/Bellæ duality. Except the Native Americans didn't have Tesco™ Value cider.
Anonymous O joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 1 hour later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #493,466
Metæ replied with this 12 years ago, 2 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #493,480
@previous (O)
Because the first colonists at Jamestown weren't set alight with a Tesco Value™ air freshener flamethrower and twatted with a buttered Aspire NHS walk in dentist sign.
Because the first colonists at Jamestown weren't set alight with a Tesco Value™ air freshener flamethrower and twatted with a buttered Aspire NHS walk in dentist sign.
HaikerensGuide !dBGi/iH4eY joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 3 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #493,481
Methinks these Trannies might be a bit coocoo...Anonymous H replied with this 12 years ago, 2 days later, 4 days after the original post[^] [v] #493,829
@493,480 (Metæ)
> Because the first colonists at Jamestown weren't set alight with a Tesco Value™ air freshener flamethrower and twatted with a buttered Aspire NHS walk in dentist sign.
I miss Green. He was a fun guy always up to mischief.
> Because the first colonists at Jamestown weren't set alight with a Tesco Value™ air freshener flamethrower and twatted with a buttered Aspire NHS walk in dentist sign.
I miss Green. He was a fun guy always up to mischief.
Anonymous Q joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 12 hours later, 4 days after the original post[^] [v] #493,968
@OP
> The Oregon public now covers treatments for gender dysphoria. How mad are you?
>
> http://www.basicrights.org/resources/faq-on-oregon-health-plan-coverage-for-gender-dysphoria/
not mad at all, everyone agrees people suffering from gender dysphoria requires treatment, the only thing is that everyone else just refers to it as a mental health problem while trannies just yell and scream about it
> The Oregon public now covers treatments for gender dysphoria. How mad are you?
>
> http://www.basicrights.org/resources/faq-on-oregon-health-plan-coverage-for-gender-dysphoria/
not mad at all, everyone agrees people suffering from gender dysphoria requires treatment, the only thing is that everyone else just refers to it as a mental health problem while trannies just yell and scream about it