Topic: is college dumb?
Postmortem !!Qe8ScDbX+ started this discussion 12 years ago #35,419
So, I've been doing a little research, and have found that there are plenty of careers that don't require a college degree, but make very decent wages. A car salesman can make 200k a year at top levels this requires no degree, a personal trainer can make 100k a year, certification that takes about 6 months to get, but again, no degree. Working on a ship you can make 150k years as a tugboat captain this requires working up the ladder, but no degree.
And these are just what one is making on their main job alone, take something like personal training, if I did that I could build up a clientele and probably make 60k a year optimistically which is already better than a lot of college degree requiring careers, but then what if I open my own gym? What if I start a magazine or a youtube channel or website devoted to fitness? Do you see where the money starts coming in?
To get to the higher levels of pay, it takes hard work and years of experience, but you're getting paid the entire time youre working up the ladder, instead of collecting debt. Even if im making 30k a year starting off in some job, I can live below my means and just save money rather than losing thousands every year at a university. Making starting my own businesses, and other financial ventures much more reachable than if I was bogged down with debt.
The funny thing is, even with a degree you have to work up a ladder afterwards, you really arent guaranteed work, and youre assuradly bogged down with debt. And even from just a pure educational perspective, pretty much anything you can learn at a university you can learn for free on your own.
So, why go to college? Am I missing something?
And these are just what one is making on their main job alone, take something like personal training, if I did that I could build up a clientele and probably make 60k a year optimistically which is already better than a lot of college degree requiring careers, but then what if I open my own gym? What if I start a magazine or a youtube channel or website devoted to fitness? Do you see where the money starts coming in?
To get to the higher levels of pay, it takes hard work and years of experience, but you're getting paid the entire time youre working up the ladder, instead of collecting debt. Even if im making 30k a year starting off in some job, I can live below my means and just save money rather than losing thousands every year at a university. Making starting my own businesses, and other financial ventures much more reachable than if I was bogged down with debt.
The funny thing is, even with a degree you have to work up a ladder afterwards, you really arent guaranteed work, and youre assuradly bogged down with debt. And even from just a pure educational perspective, pretty much anything you can learn at a university you can learn for free on your own.
So, why go to college? Am I missing something?
Anonymous B joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 16 minutes later[^] [v] #487,205
> tugboat captain
girlslaughing.jpg
girlslaughing.jpg
Metæ joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 1 minute later, 17 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #487,206
Make "up to $X a year!" is meaningless. It's no good to look at the outliers, you have to look at the median, ie what is realistic. Car salesmen do not make 200k a year. Maybe the guy at the Beverly Hills Rolls Royce dealer does, but I promise you the guys at the dealerships off I45 don't.
Syntax joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 2 minutes later, 19 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #487,207
> Making starting my own businesses, and other financial ventures much more reachable than if I was bogged down with debt.
I read your well thought out post 2X - You surprised me this tyme. Yes there are blue collar's like plumbers - electricians who make good money with 0 college. Deckwswabbing ship workers who climb up the latter to Captain - Doubt to many opportunities available and you wood already be working some form of job to go out to sea if you were driven as many are towards that kind of work.
You left a Chef off your list. Chefs can make a lot of money and even eventually open a restaurant. So lets use a Chef as an example as one might say with a personal trainer - One who owns his own restaurant - Personal trainer who one day owns his own gym.
This is where College can make a huge difference
1: Most who attempt to start any business FAIL You can look up the odds on net easily and see for self its very very risky
2: For the Chef to own a restaurant takes far more then cooking. Business management - accounting - knowledge of Insurance matters - Inventory management - Property management - Accounting - customer service - MARKETING MARKETING MARKETING - & LETS stick in the Personal trainer who wants to own a gym - After all how many Old Personal trainers do you see still working?
I am not saying you have to do all the years in college - People take nite courses in Accounting or business management. Any of the necessary skills can be learned with a lot of reading. It generally works better in a class room environment but I have friends who own their own restaurant and they did the night courses or say Wolfgang Puck got all of that as an apprentice working for years to learn all the factors necessary to not just make a great meal but market himself so he could get the cold hard cash invested to open his first place and grow from there.
All you are missing is - Do you want to be pure blue collar and find something that pays real well - Poster on TC shows his craftsmanship as a carpenter but he is an artist with his work and makes a lot of money. He networks so all the marketing is done for him by someone else - Key is he has talent and college is not really necessary.
The Lighting designer who posts on a couple of Chans never needed college and is very busy with work and is very happy with it - 3 of them on Chans - One in UK and two USA -
ANYWAY well done with open thoughts - Yes one has to climb the ladder with college or without- unless as with Plumber - Once you learn to unclog the toilet you can use same method for the next 40 decades
I read your well thought out post 2X - You surprised me this tyme. Yes there are blue collar's like plumbers - electricians who make good money with 0 college. Deckwswabbing ship workers who climb up the latter to Captain - Doubt to many opportunities available and you wood already be working some form of job to go out to sea if you were driven as many are towards that kind of work.
You left a Chef off your list. Chefs can make a lot of money and even eventually open a restaurant. So lets use a Chef as an example as one might say with a personal trainer - One who owns his own restaurant - Personal trainer who one day owns his own gym.
This is where College can make a huge difference
1: Most who attempt to start any business FAIL You can look up the odds on net easily and see for self its very very risky
2: For the Chef to own a restaurant takes far more then cooking. Business management - accounting - knowledge of Insurance matters - Inventory management - Property management - Accounting - customer service - MARKETING MARKETING MARKETING - & LETS stick in the Personal trainer who wants to own a gym - After all how many Old Personal trainers do you see still working?
I am not saying you have to do all the years in college - People take nite courses in Accounting or business management. Any of the necessary skills can be learned with a lot of reading. It generally works better in a class room environment but I have friends who own their own restaurant and they did the night courses or say Wolfgang Puck got all of that as an apprentice working for years to learn all the factors necessary to not just make a great meal but market himself so he could get the cold hard cash invested to open his first place and grow from there.
All you are missing is - Do you want to be pure blue collar and find something that pays real well - Poster on TC shows his craftsmanship as a carpenter but he is an artist with his work and makes a lot of money. He networks so all the marketing is done for him by someone else - Key is he has talent and college is not really necessary.
The Lighting designer who posts on a couple of Chans never needed college and is very busy with work and is very happy with it - 3 of them on Chans - One in UK and two USA -
ANYWAY well done with open thoughts - Yes one has to climb the ladder with college or without- unless as with Plumber - Once you learn to unclog the toilet you can use same method for the next 40 decades
Ks !KansasxqvM joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 2 minutes later, 22 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #487,210
@OP
Having a degree often opens a lot of doors that would otherwise be closed. You're right, people can and do make good money without a degree. Although getting your foot in the door in many cases is near impossible without connections. Good jobs that don't require a degree are highly sought after by many people. I think you've got some misconceptions about being a personal trainer. First I'd like to point out that you don't even train yourself, this is obviously something you're not passionate about - you just like the idea. Secondly most personal trainer do not make a decent living, they scrape by. After 10 years of passionate work they might make a decent living, but most fail long before that. You can go right now and talk to gym owners, they will all tell you the same thing. Open a gym if you enjoy it as a hobby. Many small gyms lose money or barely break even. There are exceptions of course, but you can't count on that.
Honestly I think the best decision of a person in your situation is to go sign up for military service. You'll learn a lot about yourself and the world, you'll make a living, and they'll help you pay for college if you decide to go.
Having a degree often opens a lot of doors that would otherwise be closed. You're right, people can and do make good money without a degree. Although getting your foot in the door in many cases is near impossible without connections. Good jobs that don't require a degree are highly sought after by many people. I think you've got some misconceptions about being a personal trainer. First I'd like to point out that you don't even train yourself, this is obviously something you're not passionate about - you just like the idea. Secondly most personal trainer do not make a decent living, they scrape by. After 10 years of passionate work they might make a decent living, but most fail long before that. You can go right now and talk to gym owners, they will all tell you the same thing. Open a gym if you enjoy it as a hobby. Many small gyms lose money or barely break even. There are exceptions of course, but you can't count on that.
Honestly I think the best decision of a person in your situation is to go sign up for military service. You'll learn a lot about yourself and the world, you'll make a living, and they'll help you pay for college if you decide to go.
(Edited 1 minute later.)
Syntax replied with this 12 years ago, 1 minute later, 24 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #487,211
@previous (Ks !KansasxqvM)
ALL well said
> Honestly I think the best decision of a person in your situation is to go sign up for military service. You'll learn a lot about yourself and the world, you'll make a living, and they'll help you pay for college if you decide to go.
Best thing he can do and it will keep him from hurting another girls hand for a while.
ALL well said
> Honestly I think the best decision of a person in your situation is to go sign up for military service. You'll learn a lot about yourself and the world, you'll make a living, and they'll help you pay for college if you decide to go.
Best thing he can do and it will keep him from hurting another girls hand for a while.
Anonymous F joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 45 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #487,214
Like Ks said, going to college opens up a lot of doors. If you don't want to take out debt, then be a part time student w/ a job and pay for it as you go. Honestly, if you look at the statistics, you'll see that college grads make tons more over the course of their life than people without degrees.
I went to a hoity toity private school and I owe like... 30k because of it. But I'm about to get my PhD in a year or so here and I expect to be able to pay it back over the next 5-10ish years.
Last thing I wanna say is that you should really get a USEFUL degree. I know guys who got their BS in computer science and landed jobs straight outta college making like 60 or 70k. And that's starting salary. By the time you've been working for 10 or 15 years in the business, you can be making like 100k. (or so I've heard. I'm not in CS.)
I went to a hoity toity private school and I owe like... 30k because of it. But I'm about to get my PhD in a year or so here and I expect to be able to pay it back over the next 5-10ish years.
Last thing I wanna say is that you should really get a USEFUL degree. I know guys who got their BS in computer science and landed jobs straight outta college making like 60 or 70k. And that's starting salary. By the time you've been working for 10 or 15 years in the business, you can be making like 100k. (or so I've heard. I'm not in CS.)
Anonymous G joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 10 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #487,216
Get into any part of the petrol industry doing more than monkey work and you'll bank ok. Inspection work is probably the easiest, since you're a lazy entitled twat, it might work for you. Although you would be in the elements a lot.
dw skg joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #487,218
Anonymous I joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 1 hour later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #487,232
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 1 minute later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #487,233
No, I think that college is a pretty smart guy. Eh provides higher learning and doesn't afraid of anything.
Syntax replied with this 12 years ago, 9 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #487,235
@487,214 (F)
> Last thing I wanna say is that you should really get a USEFUL degree
Congrats on only one year to go for PhD
A good place cause I do not do this often on MC - There is now a banned person lets just call him Matthew - He spent 15 years in Uni for his Masters degree - Languages (French) he grew up as kiddlet speaking a brand of French called Cajun - So a little education is necessary to convert to true French.
With the MS one could teach French in High School - However he had no interest in teaching at all. His Goal from getgo was to get his PhD. Then become professor of French in Uni and sit back and let TA's do all the work. He was not found acceptable for that PhD program and reasons are such that no USA school wood accept him into their PhD program.
Nor wood any USA school of any kind hire him to teach French after he failed to get in2 PhD program -
One had best have a back up plan because sometimes failure is the only option (for a few out of Uni)
> went to a hoity toity private school
LOL
Me a pubic school UCLA not privates
> Last thing I wanna say is that you should really get a USEFUL degree
Congrats on only one year to go for PhD
A good place cause I do not do this often on MC - There is now a banned person lets just call him Matthew - He spent 15 years in Uni for his Masters degree - Languages (French) he grew up as kiddlet speaking a brand of French called Cajun - So a little education is necessary to convert to true French.
With the MS one could teach French in High School - However he had no interest in teaching at all. His Goal from getgo was to get his PhD. Then become professor of French in Uni and sit back and let TA's do all the work. He was not found acceptable for that PhD program and reasons are such that no USA school wood accept him into their PhD program.
Nor wood any USA school of any kind hire him to teach French after he failed to get in2 PhD program -
One had best have a back up plan because sometimes failure is the only option (for a few out of Uni)
> went to a hoity toity private school
LOL
Me a pubic school UCLA not privates
(Edited 1 minute later.)
Anonymous K joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 10 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #487,237
Syntax replied with this 12 years ago, 16 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #487,241
@previous (K)My standard reply.
Hobby is Anthropology (really) Used to be about American Indians that occupied California - lots of research on LA and Ventura and Santa Barbra and Islands -
Currently Anthropology hobby is the study of those who get useless University degrees and in the process commit acts of Pedophilia and gets caught ...Which PhD committees look upon not so favorably.
It sucks that I avoided study of Indians of San Diego county and now I live here. It too Confucius re the religious differences.
Anonymous L joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 1 hour later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #487,253
are you planning on getting a job? yes
are you planning on making that job "perpetual student" as you continue to rake up loan debt while you "get (it) together"? go to college
are you planning on making that job "perpetual student" as you continue to rake up loan debt while you "get (it) together"? go to college
Anonymous M joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 1 hour later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #487,266
Yes
stella joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 22 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #487,268
i want to go to college
squeegee joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 10 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #487,270
is college dumb? well, yes and no.
college is a great idea if your ambition is a career which requires that specific degree which is the key to employment.
it is dumb if you plan a career which doesn't require a set of knowledge aquired from classwork.
it is also dumb if you have zero plan, zero ambition, and no goals.
so yes, it is smart to go to college if you want to be a doctor, lawyer, dentist, accountant, corporate executive, a teacher, or any career that requires college as a prerequisite.
no, it is dumb if you want to be an aviation mechanic, a tug boat captain, a marine, or a million other jobs that don't require a college education.
it is also dumb if you waste your time there "finding yourself" and flunking out or wasting a bunch of money switching majors as you struggle to choose what to do with your life.
college is a great idea if your ambition is a career which requires that specific degree which is the key to employment.
it is dumb if you plan a career which doesn't require a set of knowledge aquired from classwork.
it is also dumb if you have zero plan, zero ambition, and no goals.
so yes, it is smart to go to college if you want to be a doctor, lawyer, dentist, accountant, corporate executive, a teacher, or any career that requires college as a prerequisite.
no, it is dumb if you want to be an aviation mechanic, a tug boat captain, a marine, or a million other jobs that don't require a college education.
it is also dumb if you waste your time there "finding yourself" and flunking out or wasting a bunch of money switching majors as you struggle to choose what to do with your life.
Syntax replied with this 12 years ago, 49 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #487,273
@previous (squeegee)
To your list I think its dumb to go to college and major in anything you do not have a passion in. Its even possible to get a degree without passion and many do. Then they get a job such as Engineering and discover they hate it. Been surrounded with so many that do. I have attorney friends that hate the branch of law they got stuck with and cannot find a way out. Job openings where say a law firm needs to groom talent in real estate for instance and hired lawyer ends up type cast rest of life and hates it. Engineers get type cast as SOP
Tug boat captain is still a funny bit OP put in LoL
To your list I think its dumb to go to college and major in anything you do not have a passion in. Its even possible to get a degree without passion and many do. Then they get a job such as Engineering and discover they hate it. Been surrounded with so many that do. I have attorney friends that hate the branch of law they got stuck with and cannot find a way out. Job openings where say a law firm needs to groom talent in real estate for instance and hired lawyer ends up type cast rest of life and hates it. Engineers get type cast as SOP
Tug boat captain is still a funny bit OP put in LoL
dw skg replied with this 12 years ago, 1 hour later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #487,291
Useful yes
Dumb yes
Dumb yes
Metæ replied with this 12 years ago, 8 hours later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #487,333
@487,270 (squeegee)
I have a half sister who did that, ended up with a political science degree after like 8 years of changing majors...
I have a half sister who did that, ended up with a political science degree after like 8 years of changing majors...
squeegee replied with this 12 years ago, 7 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #487,334
@previous (Metæ)
i was in a frat, like half the dudes were there because they felt entitled to a degree (because their whole education led up to college) but dropped and failed out of so many classes they didn't care about that they flunked out of UT. some more than once and were told to just quit.
so being directionless in college is really bad. it's a great way to destroy an opportunity that, maybe, if they had waited until they knew what they wanted, they could have started later (as maybe a responsible 25 year old and not an 18 year old with a bad attitude) they would now not be selling cars to people with educations.
i was in a frat, like half the dudes were there because they felt entitled to a degree (because their whole education led up to college) but dropped and failed out of so many classes they didn't care about that they flunked out of UT. some more than once and were told to just quit.
so being directionless in college is really bad. it's a great way to destroy an opportunity that, maybe, if they had waited until they knew what they wanted, they could have started later (as maybe a responsible 25 year old and not an 18 year old with a bad attitude) they would now not be selling cars to people with educations.
squeegee double-posted this 12 years ago, 8 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #487,335
so the best example was my friend "poindexter." poindexter really wanted to bea doctor, so he was premed. however, all of the 1001 level premed classes all started at 7 or 8 am. that's your first weedout, whether or not you care enough to get out of bed. something like 80% drop the weedout class merely because they aren't responsible with an alarm clock and have too.
poindexter never finished his 1001 level weedouts, and ultimately failed out of school all together.
and dude really thought he could be a doctor... at 18... and without any knowledge of what school would actually require of him. if he had waited until he had all his partying and fucking up done then maybe he would be a doctor today and not just a blood transfusion equipment operator.
poindexter never finished his 1001 level weedouts, and ultimately failed out of school all together.
and dude really thought he could be a doctor... at 18... and without any knowledge of what school would actually require of him. if he had waited until he had all his partying and fucking up done then maybe he would be a doctor today and not just a blood transfusion equipment operator.
Metæ replied with this 12 years ago, 1 hour later, 19 hours after the original post[^] [v] #487,338
@487,334 (squeegee)
I agree. I think kids should have a year or two to decompress, fuck around, drink, party and work shitty jobs before entering college. This idea of rushing kids off to college the second they're done with highschool is retarded.
I agree. I think kids should have a year or two to decompress, fuck around, drink, party and work shitty jobs before entering college. This idea of rushing kids off to college the second they're done with highschool is retarded.
Syntax replied with this 12 years ago, 2 hours later, 22 hours after the original post[^] [v] #487,346
@487,335 (squeegee)
> all started at 7 or 8 am. that's your first weedout
Perhaps that ends up good for those who end up needing a doctor one day. Later if a student does make it all the way to intern/resident they end up working impossibly hours. I always figured it had something to do with tymes when a crisis in a city or country places demands on Doctors to work 24-40 hours without sleep. Anyway that has always been the way I look at that weedout which happens later during MD training.
Rare at Harvard as they pre weedout by forcing almost impossible Pre-med classes just to qualify.
> all started at 7 or 8 am. that's your first weedout
Perhaps that ends up good for those who end up needing a doctor one day. Later if a student does make it all the way to intern/resident they end up working impossibly hours. I always figured it had something to do with tymes when a crisis in a city or country places demands on Doctors to work 24-40 hours without sleep. Anyway that has always been the way I look at that weedout which happens later during MD training.
Rare at Harvard as they pre weedout by forcing almost impossible Pre-med classes just to qualify.