decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 19 hours later, 5 days after the original post[^][v]#476,239
@476,058 (Metæ)
Do you mind not equating "headmates" with actually useful terminology? The whole headmates thing is almost always appropriation of DID as a coping mechanism or shtick by people who don't even have DID.
Metæ replied with this 12 years ago, 21 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^][v]#476,241
@previous (decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB)
Reading this literally triggered a division by zero error in my mind. I was not expecting that response.
You are correct, though. I would also argue "cishet" is a useless term and is wholly inappropriate to use as a slur.
Triggering is a real thing, but is becoming overused on Tumblr and is starting to become debased.
(Edited 2 minutes later.)
decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB replied with this 12 years ago, 9 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^][v]#476,242
@previous (Metæ)
Nah, I can't roll with the Tumblr attitude of absolute permissivity. They've gone as far as accepting abusers as a group as marginalised in some circles, and a lot of the identities which are exclusive to Tumblr were literally introduced by Goons. Tumblr has given rise to a sometimes unique line of SJ discourse which is entirely devoid of any analysis or ideology - just a weird offshoot of liberalism that appropriates SJ dialectics and terminology to invent justifications for highjacking oppressed identities.
Cishet isn't a slur or a useless term, though - its context is almost opposite to that of what sociologists would agree to constitute slurs, and it's a much more useful term to denote someone who isn't within any queer identities under Western cultural standards than just "not queer". Defining things by what they aren't should generally be avoided.
Yeah, that's a bit of an odd Tumblr-only phenomenon. Like, it seems like the consensus that triggering is altogether a different phenomenon from mere upset, but ~some Tumblrites ignore this at times, so~
(PS: not trying to discredit good SJAs on Tumblr here, though; I figure those still make up the majority of the SJ discourse there, even despite the amount of endemic fuckery.)
Metæ replied with this 12 years ago, 59 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^][v]#476,262
@previous (decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB) > Nah, I can't roll with the Tumblr attitude of absolute permissivity. They've gone as far as accepting abusers as a group as marginalised in some circles, and a lot of the identities which are exclusive to Tumblr were literally introduced by Goons.
Who(m) are the "Goons"? > Tumblr has given rise to a sometimes unique line of SJ discourse which is entirely devoid of any analysis or ideology - just a weird offshoot of liberalism that appropriates SJ dialectics and terminology to invent justifications for highjacking oppressed identities.
The whole mess will end up devouring itself as everyone competes to see who can become the most oppressed special snowflake with a dozen different mental illnesses they self diagnosed on WebMD. The Tumblr/Suey Park style of social justice will tarnish the actual social justice movement. > Cishet isn't a slur or a useless term, though - its context is almost opposite to that of what sociologists would agree to constitute slurs, and it's a much more useful term to denote someone who isn't within any queer identities under Western cultural standards than just "not queer". Defining things by what they aren't should generally be avoided.
This is the sleight of hand: "opposite to that of what sociologists would agree". It's not a slur (just like trans/gay isn't), but it's wrong to use it as one.
For example: http://www.tumblr.com/search/cishet If you read most of these, and replace cishet with trans or gay, Tumblr becomes a cesspool of trans- and homophobia. > Yeah, that's a bit of an odd Tumblr-only phenomenon. Like, it seems like the consensus that triggering is altogether a different phenomenon from mere upset, but ~some Tumblrites ignore this at times, so~
Just like "autism" used to denote a specific disorder, now it means "hurr u play minecraft ur so autistic". > (PS: not trying to discredit good SJAs on Tumblr here, though; I figure those still make up the majority of the SJ discourse there, even despite the amount of endemic fuckery.)
They are out there, but they get lost in the mountain of refuse.
decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB replied with this 12 years ago, 1 hour later, 6 days after the original post[^][v]#476,274
@previous (Metæ) > Who(m) are the "Goons"?
Goons! SA users! Specifically, lots of SA veterans who were also involved in LJDrama and ED. Lots of them are ex-friends of a friend of mine, actually. > The whole mess will end up devouring itself as everyone competes to see who can become the most oppressed special snowflake with a dozen different mental illnesses they self diagnosed on WebMD. The Tumblr/Suey Park style of social justice will tarnish the actual social justice movement.
Wow, wow. Hashtag activism is astronomically more respectable than some of the Tumblr stuff. The likes of Park are actually pretty fucking good at making points and spurring discourse. Better than I am. :v > This is the sleight of hand: "opposite to that of what sociologists would agree". It's not a slur (just like trans/gay isn't), but it's wrong to use it as one. > For example: http://www.tumblr.com/search/cishet If you read most of these, and replace cishet with trans or gay, Tumblr becomes a cesspool of trans- and homophobia.
No, I mean, "cishet" is entirely lacking of the same kind of historical context and social power as, say, "fag". It's wholly irrelevant to try to compare the two. > Just like "autism" used to denote a specific disorder, now it means "hurr u play minecraft ur so autistic". YEP
Though that's more due to 4chan Heh Heh Im So Edgey "faux" ableism than the dynamics at play with Tumblr misleadingly repurposing the term "triggering". But the effect is similar, yeah! > They are out there, but they get lost in the mountain of refuse.
I call confirmation bias on that.
(Edited 19 seconds later.)
Metæ replied with this 12 years ago, 28 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^][v]#476,276
@previous (decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB) > Goons! SA users! Specifically, lots of SA veterans who were also involved in LJDrama and ED. Lots of them are ex-friends of a friend of mine, actually. > >The whole mess will end up devouring itself as everyone competes to see who can become the most oppressed special snowflake with a dozen different mental illnesses they self diagnosed on WebMD. The Tumblr/Suey Park style of social justice will tarnish the actual social justice movement. > Wow, wow. Hashtag activism is astronomically more respectable than some of the Tumblr stuff. The likes of Park are actually pretty fucking good at making points and spurring discourse. Better than I am. :v
I saw Suey Park as appropriating the struggle of actually oppressed people. Suey Park is not oppressed. Her father was an executive, she was raised at home by her stay at home mom, she is pursuing a master's degree, and her sister is in medical school. Asians in the US actually make more money than white people as a group, and are better educated than whites as a group. Suey Park may be a "WoC" but she is not facing any systemic oppression. As a group, Asian-Americans (especially East Asians) are not oppressed in America today. > No, I mean, "cishet" is entirely lacking of the same kind of historical context and social power as, say, "fag". It's wholly irrelevant to try to compare the two.
I know: it's fine to say "cishets are scum" because reasons. > Though that's more due to 4chan Heh Heh Im So Edgey "faux" ableism than the dynamics at play with Tumblr misleadingly repurposing the term "triggering". But the effect is similar, yeah! > >They are out there, but they get lost in the mountain of refuse. > I call confirmation bias on that.
You're probably right. My views on everything are pretty biased.
decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB replied with this 12 years ago, 7 hours later, 6 days after the original post[^][v]#476,296
@previous (Metæ) > I saw Suey Park as appropriating the struggle of actually oppressed people. Suey Park is not oppressed. Her father was an executive, she was raised at home by her stay at home mom, she is pursuing a master's degree, and her sister is in medical school. Asians in the US actually make more money than white people as a group, and are better educated than whites as a group. Suey Park may be a "WoC" but she is not facing any systemic oppression. As a group, Asian-Americans (especially East Asians) are not oppressed in America today.
Dude. You could try, you know, actually listening to Asian-Americans about the racism that they deal with before making calls like this. (Just so I don't make assumptions here - you're white, right?) > I know: it's fine to say "cishets are scum" because reasons.
Anger at a group which generally takes often extreme measures to fuck you over is entirely reasonable, and sometimes turns out to be actually really useful for getting activism organised. So yeah. I'm not gonna give people shit for getting mad at a group whose constituents are almost all involved in either enabling or viciously continuing their oppression.
Metæ replied with this 12 years ago, 1 hour later, 6 days after the original post[^][v]#476,310
@previous (decibelmilliwatts !!beW+FQoWB) > Dude. You could try, you know, actually listening to Asian-Americans about the racism that they deal with before making calls like this. (Just so I don't make assumptions here - you're white, right?)
Okay, how are East Asians oppressed in America today? They seem to achieve the same (or better) than whites in income and education. They did face widespread systemic oppression in the past (as did the Irish) but I don't see it today, at all, for East Asians. The main racial stereotype is that they work too hard, study too hard and are good at math. Again: as a group they make more money and are much better educated than white people. Depending on which studies you consult, they even have higher IQs. If that's oppression, where do I sign up?
Suey Park is not the same league as Rosa Parks. When she gets arrested and legally and physically persecuted for trying to exercise her right to equal treatment, let me know. This is main shortfall of the white/colored paradigm: It encourages binary thinking: a group is either completely oppressed or is the complete oppressor. There are definitely regional, and historical shades of grey when it comes to race and oppression. A black woman in Alabama faces entirely different circumstances compared to an Asian woman in Colorado but because they're both "WoC" they are both equally oppressed in sociology. But not in real life.
> Anger at a group which generally takes often extreme measures to fuck you over is entirely reasonable, and sometimes turns out to be actually really useful for getting activism organised. So yeah. I'm not gonna give people shit for getting mad at a group whose constituents are almost all involved in either enabling or viciously continuing their oppression.
Please tell me what extreme measures I've taken to fuck over trans* and gay people? I haven't, and I have the right to be offended for being insulted on the basis of my race, orientation, and gender just as I would not intentionally insult someone else on the basis of theirs. By all means, attack the specific people and groups that enable oppression and fucking over. Lumping all cishets into a monolithic bloc is the same as making a racist "joke" and then when a black person gets (rightfully) offended "Well I'm sorry but most black people..."
(Edited 3 minutes later.)
Garak replied with this 12 years ago, 7 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^][v]#476,313
How do people feel comfortable making generalizations about tumblr like that? Like, it's a blog site. You don't hear people saying shit like 'all those like minded people on blogspot blah twitter users blah blah' but tumblr is just an easy target or something? To take the opinions of a handful of users and apply them to an entire blogging platform? What?
Garak double-posted this 12 years ago, 1 minute later, 6 days after the original post[^][v]#476,314
And then talk like you're an authority on... A stereotype? Of... Bloggers? On tumblr? There is minimal networking in tumblr. There aren't groups. There aren't even reliable discussions. How do u do it.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 12 years ago, 8 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^][v]#476,317
@476,313 (Garak) @previous (Garak)
You fit the stereotype quite well.