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No shit. It's not like we're in debt to the tune of $17,000,000,000,000 or anything. Again, this should serve as a reminder that Team Blue is just as bellicose as Team Red.
> Speaking to reporters, Kerry inveighed against what he sees as a tendency within the United States to retreat from the world even as he defended the Obama administration’s diplomatic efforts from Syria to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. “There’s a new isolationism,” Kerry said during a nearly one-hour discussion with a small group of reporters.
Could it be the American people are tired of expending blood and treasure trying to solve everyone's problems? That we're war-weary after 13 years of a global war on terror? That we can't afford to charge another war on the credit card?
> The US has always been a poor Nation. Any country that does not invest in all it's people is socially crippled and hardly fit to advise others.
Even though I hate to agree with the peadophile this is correct. While the states has the richest people in the world it also has some of the poorest like China, Russia and Brazil but then that's common to large countries.
squeegee joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 31 minutes later, 12 hours after the original post[^][v]#468,125
actually our national debt has nothing to dowith anything. divide our gdp by our national debt and compare that to a single family home where you'll see debt to be way higher than yearly earning.
if the government was a family, it would be like a family who earns 300k a year and had debt of less than 100k. that is super fucking fantastic and a fantasy for most families.
normally debt skyrockets past earning. thats why people are scared of the "national debt". they are confused and think the fed is run like a household, it is not. it is way, way, way more secure than just about any middle class family and is better off than even most wealthy families.
our debt is a fraction of our earning and is no where near level that could even bankrupt a poor family with similar levels of debt.
this is all a red herring conservatives use to scare people who are bad with money into thinking government is as bad as they are.
please, educate yourself before posting, op.
(Edited 1 minute later.)
squeegee double-posted this 12 years ago, 6 minutes later, 12 hours after the original post[^][v]#468,131
so the reason america is more like a poor country is becuase of the growing divide between top earners and bottom. just like inpoor countries where all the money ends upin the hands of a few and the majority go hungry, in america we are shrinking the middle class and concentrating the wealth into a few elite hands and the middle class is getting poorer and poorer.
this can be seen by the increasing pay of executives yet stagnant growth of middle class wages that haven't risen in 40 years.
the rich get richer, and poor are getting poorer.
again, op, get out there and get an education.
(Edited 1 minute later.)
Anonymous G replied with this 12 years ago, 15 minutes later, 12 hours after the original post[^][v]#468,139
@previous (squeegee)
You should really get educated as to how our money comes into existence if you're going to attempt to school others.
No national debt means no US Federal Reserve Notes. That's a fact. So to say our national debt has noting to do with anything is factually incorrect.
squeegee replied with this 12 years ago, 6 minutes later, 12 hours after the original post[^][v]#468,141
@previous (G)
oh wow. argure against the first line of what i said, basically just the hyperbole, and don't even bother touching the body of what i said.
good work there. way to be evasive.
ShitArse !saAqdaazn2 replied with this 12 years ago, 2 minutes later, 12 hours after the original post[^][v]#468,142
I'm not obligated to waste my breath debating an uneducated moron. You made a patently false claim while simultaniously attempting to claim intellectual superiority.
Sorry if my pointing that out causes you butthurt, but you don't know jack shit about money or economics.
Anyway, the information is out there if you want to learn.
(Edited 37 seconds later.)
squeegee replied with this 12 years ago, 46 seconds later, 13 hours after the original post[^][v]#468,155
Anonymous G replied with this 12 years ago, 19 minutes later, 13 hours after the original post[^][v]#468,171
@previous (floorboard)
Oh great, now the morons are claiming their ignorance is accuracy.
I said no national debt means no US Federal Reserve Notes. And the video explains why that is as simply as possible. And squeegee claimed "our national debt has nothing to do with ANYTHING while bitching about inequality. Our national debt is the very source of inequality.
(Edited 38 seconds later.)
Anonymous G double-posted this 12 years ago, 11 minutes later, 13 hours after the original post[^][v]#468,177
"ask him or her why we have managed to avoid retiring debt since 1837-is 173 years long enough to establish a “sustainable” pattern?"
I will answer that challenge: Because the monetary system we are using requires us to go perpetually deeper into debt to cover principle and interest payments on government IOUs. The only thing being 'sustained' by this system is the mortgaging of our future productivity.
squeegee replied with this 12 years ago, 17 minutes later, 14 hours after the original post[^][v]#468,179
@468,171 (G)
didn't i also call that the only line of hyperbole and asked you to bother responding to my actual argument instead of acting likei only said the one outrageous thing?
if you can't, then don't, but stop pretending i didn't say more
squeegee double-posted this 12 years ago, 1 minute later, 14 hours after the original post[^][v]#468,180
@468,177 (G)
so let's change what has worked for over 200 years and try something totally new
becuase you misunderstand debt to income ratios?
um, no.
Metæ (OP) replied with this 12 years ago, 7 minutes later, 14 hours after the original post[^][v]#468,181
@468,131 (squeegee)
By "poor nation", Kerry didn't mean that we were living in mud huts or starving, but that we aren't chomping at the bit to send over the military to change every regime anymore. For instance you don't see, say, Sweden trying to change regimes all the time.
Also, saying government debt is 1/3rd of government income (ie taxes) is pretty rich. And no, it's not Obama's fault, both parties are equally irresponsible.
Anonymous G replied with this 12 years ago, 7 minutes later, 14 hours after the original post[^][v]#468,183
@468,180 (squeegee)
Again you expose yourself as ignorant. Federal Reserve Notes have only been in existence since 1913, and only since 1971 have they been removed from gold backing. You can't claim 200 years of success when you switch up the system every 40-50 years.
The mafia racket's been keeping Sicily 'safe' for hundreds of years. Should they also continue with that injustice forever?
You still know nothing about money. I know your feeble mind believes you are actually making clever and valid points, but you really should follow your own advice and get an education.
Metæ (OP) replied with this 12 years ago, 4 minutes later, 14 hours after the original post[^][v]#468,185
@468,180 (squeegee)
While its true the US dollar has been around for over 200 years, its a bit disingenuous to argue that the current high debt fiat money system has.
squeegee replied with this 12 years ago, 34 minutes later, 14 hours after the original post[^][v]#468,190
Anonymous G replied with this 12 years ago, 43 minutes later, 15 hours after the original post[^][v]#468,197
@previous (squeegee)
What's the matter? Google's too complicated for ya. If you expect me to personally indoctrinate you into fiscal reality, I'll expect to be paid at least as well as your favorite libtard university professor.
Get an education, fool. Not being able to take your follow your own prescriptions for others only ever exposes you as a fraud and a complete jackass. Is your frontal lobe literally broken?
squeegee replied with this 12 years ago, 13 minutes later, 15 hours after the original post[^][v]#468,204
@previous (G)
why should you get paid when you don't even know how to cite sources? professors are paid to be thourough, not tossed money for spewing mind vomit.
make a claim with support from experts, and not just gut instinct and bigotry, and i'll stop saying you make everything up.
but since you're unable to do this, everything you express lacks any and all credibility.
just cite one source for your shitass posts that isn't zietgiest the movie or some dude on youtube. thanks.
Metæ (OP) replied with this 12 years ago, 13 minutes later, 16 hours after the original post[^][v]#468,212
@468,125 (squeegee) > our debt is a fraction of our earning and is no where near level that could even bankrupt a poor family with similar levels of debt. > > this is all a red herring conservatives use to scare people who are bad with money into thinking government is as bad as they are. > > please, educate yourself before posting, op.
I did, and I went to the Department of the Treasury website and read the Fiscal Year 2013 summary and found this. Fed government liabilities over 6x assets. (http://www.fms.treas.gov/frsummary/FR-Summary-2013.pdf page iv)
Metæ (OP) double-posted this 12 years ago, 2 minutes later, 16 hours after the original post[^][v]#468,214
And this, government taxes and revenues equal $2.8 trillion for FY2013
squeegee replied with this 12 years ago, 2 minutes later, 16 hours after the original post[^][v]#468,216
@468,212 (Metæ)
look, buddy. stop using my source material against me, this is exactly why people don't cite sources. if you continue to pick apart my source and show a greater understanding of the material than me then i will have to concede my point and change my opinion.
and that is not how you go about winning an argument on the internet! you win an argument by evading answers and attacking credibility! so just stop it before i have to agree to revisit my views on the matter entirely!
(Edited 2 minutes later.)
Metæ (OP) replied with this 12 years ago, 4 minutes later, 16 hours after the original post[^][v]#468,222
But spending equals $3.7 trillion. How is this comparable to a family earning $300k with a $100k mortgage, again? (again, this graph and the previous one both taken from the Treasury FY2013 summary) > if the government was a family, it would be like a family who earns 300k a year and had debt of less than 100k. that is super fucking fantastic and a fantasy for most families.
The government "earns" $2.8 trillion and has a debt of $17.4 trillion. (http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/debt/current). This would be about equivalent to a family earning $300k and having debt of $1.5 million.
squeegee replied with this 12 years ago, 4 minutes later, 16 hours after the original post[^][v]#468,224
@previous (Metæ)
fucking stop using my source like that, that's not what i intended it for! just listen to what i claim and accept it a priori! this is not how this was supposed to go down!
why!? why did i cite a source, oh woe is me, why oh why, i'll never cite another source again.
(Edited 16 seconds later.)
HaikerensGuide !dBGi/iH4eY replied with this 12 years ago, 6 minutes later, 16 hours after the original post[^][v]#468,230
> Being frugal is for poor people!
The Motto of America, everyone.
Anonymous G replied with this 12 years ago, 11 minutes later, 16 hours after the original post[^][v]#468,231
@468,204 (squeegee)
Facts don't become mind vomit simply because you don't like them.
As for professors, they're actually paid to create dumb, obstinate little shits like you. Morons who think they have the right to bitch and moan constantly about the income inequality in America, but are unwilling to examine the debt-based monetary system as the most significant cause of this corruption and inequality. And that's only because doing so might mean you've been duped by your favorite political ideology.
You poorfags will never make any money because you imagine there's nothing you don't already know. And that's only because you were conned into borrowing money for a dumbed-down college 'education' where everyone gets an 'A' simply for regurgitating the professor's ramblings on multiple choice tests and writing the occasional paper for them to masturbate over.
(Edited 1 minute later.)
squeegee replied with this 12 years ago, 14 minutes later, 16 hours after the original post[^][v]#468,237
@previous (G) > but are unwilling to examine the debt-based monetary system as the most significant cause of this corruption and inequality.
can i get a fucking citation please?
i guess no....
also i worked and paid my way through schooland never borrowed becuase i learned a trade that earned me 40k out of high school.
i make way more now, ask my accountant.
anyway, make more baseless claims without any substantiating evidence. go on.
(Edited 38 seconds later.)
Metæ (OP) replied with this 12 years ago, 2 minutes later, 16 hours after the original post[^][v]#468,241
@468,183 (G) @468,190 (squeegee)
Since Anon G didn't cite their claims and I'm in a debating mood, I'll cite it for them: > Again you expose yourself as ignorant. Federal Reserve Notes have only been in existence since 1913
Federal Reserve Act of 1913 section 16 http://www.federalreserve.gov/aboutthefed/section16.htm > and only since 1971 have they been removed from gold backing. You can't claim 200 years of success when you switch up the system every 40-50 years. http://www.imf.org/external/about/histend.htm > The system dissolved between 1968 and 1973. In August 1971, U.S. President Richard Nixon announced the "temporary" suspension of the dollar's convertibility into gold.
squeegee replied with this 12 years ago, 2 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^][v]#468,246
Metæ (OP) replied with this 12 years ago, 5 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^][v]#468,256
@468,216 (squeegee)
I try to use reason and logic when feasible. > why!? why did i cite a source, oh woe is me, why oh why, i'll never cite another source again.
But you haven't cited a single source. You called it a red herring, implicitly told me I was uneducated, and then made an absurd, baseless analogy about a family earning $300k with debt of $100k, without citing a single source for your arguments, credible or otherwise.
Anonymous G replied with this 12 years ago, 6 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^][v]#468,262
@468,246 (squeegee)
Precisely the reason you wont get a citations from me. I know full well people like you are more interested in protecting their fragile egos than in actually learning anything.
Metæ (OP) replied with this 12 years ago, 3 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^][v]#468,267
@468,246 (squeegee)
You can't cry [citation needed] and then dismiss the citations out of hand when they're provided.
Anonymous G replied with this 12 years ago, 5 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^][v]#468,272
@previous (Metæ)
He only cried citation to spin being exposed as ignorant of the subject at hand. Classic deflection, and to be expected from mindless drones.
squeegee replied with this 12 years ago, 9 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^][v]#468,280
@468,262 (G)
hey, don't blame your lack of evidence on my lazyness. that's passing the buck. just because some people choose to ignore your opinions doesn't mean there's no value in backing up your arguments.
you being uncredible has nothing to do with what i read. it has to do with what you write, shitface.
@468,267 (Metæ)
oh? please cite the law preventing me so
@468,256 (Metæ)
i told you to stop using evidence to unsubstantiate my claims, damnit!
@previous (G)
it's also pretty funny to see you cry about me using your own tactics to disrupt discussion with my baseless and invented "gut feelings."
Anonymous G replied with this 12 years ago, 8 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^][v]#468,284
@previous (squeegee)
Dude, nothing you say registers as intelligent with me. I'm not using any tactics because I'm not engaging you. I told you to get educated.
That's your job, not mine.
Metæ (OP) replied with this 12 years ago, 25 minutes later, 18 hours after the original post[^][v]#468,293
@468,280 (squeegee)
There's no law, it's just poor form outside of the playground. > i told you to stop using evidence to unsubstantiate my claims, damnit!
I have made a mockery of your fallacious arguments. Thanks.
(Edited 1 minute later.)
squeegee replied with this 12 years ago, 25 minutes later, 18 hours after the original post[^][v]#468,317
@468,284 (G)
citation? jesus fucking christ you're dense as lead
Anonymous G replied with this 12 years ago, 1 minute later, 18 hours after the original post[^][v]#468,320
@previous (squeegee) > woof, woof I'm a dog hear me bark.
Like you said, get an education.
squeegee replied with this 12 years ago, 2 minutes later, 18 hours after the original post[^][v]#468,323
@previous (G)
if all you got left is parroting back insults i said hours ago then you're not very clever. if you're not going to cite your sources at least say something original.
maybe try to make fun of me for that hooker thing again, that was really getting to me.