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HaikerensGuide !dBGi/iH4eY joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 24 minutes later[^][v]#464,188
Food shortages will always lead to riots.
Metæ joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 1 hour later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#464,198
> Zeneida Caballero complains about waiting in endless queues for a sack of low-quality rice. "It fills me with rage to have to spend the one free day I have wasting my time for a bag of rice," she says. "I end up paying more at the re-sellers. In the end, all these price controls proved useless
Reminder: price controls do not work, never have worked, and never will work. Not even in Ancient Rome
Socialism will always end with consumer good shortages, empty shelves, and standing in line all day to buy a loaf of bread.
(Edited 1 minute later.)
Anonymous D joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 2 hours later, 4 hours after the original post[^][v]#464,206
Anonymous E joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 1 hour later, 6 hours after the original post[^][v]#464,209
lol government. You'd think with the current explosion of atheistic thought, the masses would come to realize government derives all its power from the same fairy tale nonsense as religion.
But I guess economic liberty isn't as important as sucking cock without fear of eternal damnation.
Anonymous E double-posted this 12 years ago, 8 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^][v]#464,210
@464,188 (HaikerensGuide !dBGi/iH4eY)
And then... cannibalism.
squeegee !first/o5zA (OP) replied with this 12 years ago, 6 hours later, 13 hours after the original post[^][v]#464,224
@464,209 (E)
except that government derives it's power from the will of the people, not from the ignorance of the masses.
Anonymous F joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 29 minutes later, 13 hours after the original post[^][v]#464,236
@464,198 (Metæ) > Socialism will always end with consumer good shortages, empty shelves, and standing in line all day to buy a loaf of bread.
Yep, it is the inevitable end, and you will starve to death waiting in a grocery line full of people on food stamps.
Anonymous E replied with this 12 years ago, 1 minute later, 13 hours after the original post[^][v]#464,237
@464,224 (squeegee !first/o5zA)
Government derives its power from guns and handouts. All that 'will of the people' crap is nothing more than a clever rouse to indoctrinate you into submission and compliance. Who taught that shit to you anyways? Oh, that's right, it was the state.
If I were to say I know God to be real because my pastor told me so you'd laugh. Well, when you believe government 'of the people' exists because paid agents of the government told you that's how it is, it is every bit as dumb. Did you ever once go looking for proof of these assertions regarding authority?
If you turned over even a few rocks, you'd find the masses are indeed ignorant to the true nature of government.
squeegee !first/o5zA (OP) replied with this 12 years ago, 59 minutes later, 14 hours after the original post[^][v]#464,248
@previous (E)
actually i say the government exist by the will of the people because the people tend to violently revolt and overthrow oppressive governments who ignore teh rights of the citizens, such as in 1776, and during the french revolution and even in russia and china and the middle east with all the arab spring stuff and now with venezuela and all the people rioting in the streets.
you're an idiot if you think real power resides in a select few and not the countless unwashed masses.
every government that thought they had complete control has lost it. And every government that tries to operate without the consent of the governed will fail.
Unless you can show me an example of a government that operates without the consent of it's people and hasn't been violently overthrown or isn't about too collapse under the weight of social pressures.
show me one. ever. in history.
(Edited 3 minutes later.)
Anonymous E replied with this 12 years ago, 16 minutes later, 14 hours after the original post[^][v]#464,254
@previous (squeegee !first/o5zA)
You mean the brainwashed masses.
Anyways, I've made my point. You were unable to prove that even one government in the world today flows from the will of the people, so instead you challenge me to disprove your faith. That is precisely the same as a believer demanding proof of God's non-existence from an atheist. And I'll remind you, the burden of proof lies with those making the positive claim.
squeegee !first/o5zA (OP) replied with this 12 years ago, 13 minutes later, 15 hours after the original post[^][v]#464,260
@previous (E)
uh, no you don't get to claim i failed to show proof for my claims, the fact that the berlin wall fell due to the people uprising, and every other example from history where the will of the people was to overthrow their oppressive government, proves my argument: all power flows from those being governed.
you mental midget. If the best you got is indignation then you've got nothing, chump.
go lose an argument somewhere else, fool.
(Edited 6 minutes later.)
squeegee !first/o5zA (OP) double-posted this 12 years ago, 21 minutes later, 15 hours after the original post[^][v]#464,261
I apologize for calling you a mental midget, a chump and a fool. I should not have done that, there was no reason for me to resort to personal insults. I have already won the argument, so attacking your credibility was uncalled for and unnecessary.
please excuse me.
(Edited 29 seconds later.)
Metæ replied with this 12 years ago, 8 minutes later, 15 hours after the original post[^][v]#464,262
@464,248 (squeegee !first/o5zA)
Perhaps initially but it will inevitably grow bloated and sclerotic and beholden to special interests. The will of the people isn't Team Red vs Team Blue elections with Goldman Sachs backing both sides. It's freedom to live without interference. The US constitution was a noble effort and held up surprisingly long.
Anonymous E replied with this 12 years ago, 38 seconds later, 15 hours after the original post[^][v]#464,263
@464,260 (squeegee !first/o5zA)
lol. You're the one who's being indignant. I don't subscribe to your establishment-informed faith in the political system so I can burn in hell, right? Classy.
And your proof sucks. There were powerful interests who stood to gain from the fall of Eastern European communism. Your so called uprising was in fact engineered and permitted to pave the way for a largely non-democratic European Union which is now busy stealing German wealth.
Denial is the first stage of grief. I do hope you'll come out of the deception one day.
squeegee !first/o5zA (OP) replied with this 12 years ago, 8 minutes later, 15 hours after the original post[^][v]#464,264
@464,262 (Metæ)
no, the consent of the governed is a "tacit acceptance through inaction." The will of the people is expressed as the laws and rules of the land that govern by a body created to enforce the will of the people. As soon as that breaks down, enough, then people no longer remain silent, and they no longer consent through inaction. They violently rebel, overthrow the body that isn't expressing their will, and they replace it with substitute after substitute following the same cycle again and again and again and again until their will is represented.
YES, governments can be oppressive and violent and corrupt in the short term. But that is not a viable long term strategy, as history keeps showing us again and again and again. And yes it could happen here in America, but right now there is A LOT of tacit acceptance and A LOT of inaction because things are not really all that bad here and no one thinks we need to go Arab Spring over anything. But we WILL just as soon as we have problems acquiring food because of government incompetence or corruption.
Anonymous G joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 1 minute later, 15 hours after the original post[^][v]#464,265
huh.
read that as "vuvuzelas is having violent protests apparently"
squeegee !first/o5zA (OP) replied with this 12 years ago, 4 minutes later, 15 hours after the original post[^][v]#464,266
@464,263 (E)
way to latch on the the one example like it's the only one i offered or the only one that matters.
How about right now in venezuela people overthrowing the president becuase of food shortages.
How about right now in syria where the people are overthrowing their corrupt president.
How about when the Soviet Union fell?
How about when Mao rebelled against china in a citizens revolution?
How about when Lenin ushered communism into russia in the first place.
Or the French revolution, or the American.
These are only a few examples of governments not withstanding the will of the people.
We'll see how China goes, and North Korea, and the rest of the middle east. but i bet people eventually get sick of it and start killing their governments.
it's happened over and over and over again throughout history. I'm wagering that's not changing.
Metæ replied with this 12 years ago, 2 minutes later, 15 hours after the original post[^][v]#464,267
@464,254 (E)
The cult of the state is our new established church. The Democratic and Republican parties are like Catholicism vs. Lutheranism: they argue a lot about minor doctrinal points and are supposed rivals, but to a non-religous observer, they're pretty much the same.
Metæ double-posted this 12 years ago, 5 minutes later, 16 hours after the original post[^][v]#464,268
@464,264 (squeegee !first/o5zA)
I think we're in the bread and circuses phase of empire decline right now. Regimes always seem invincible right before they crumble. The Soviet Union in 1981 was a superpower. The Soviet Union in 1991 was a memory.
squeegee !first/o5zA (OP) replied with this 12 years ago, 6 minutes later, 16 hours after the original post[^][v]#464,269
@previous (Metæ)
yes, exactly. Governments are powerless in the face of true social change. There is nothing more powerful than the will of the collective governed.
not even the soviet union that was so bad ass and murderous and scary.
...and not even america with her massive military spending and seeming immunity to everything.
Governments are not more powerful than the whole of their people. not for long, anyway.
Anonymous E replied with this 12 years ago, 27 minutes later, 16 hours after the original post[^][v]#464,270
@464,264 (squeegee !first/o5zA) > until they can be convinced their will is represented.
I wonder how well the 'tacit acceptance through inaction' defense works as a rape defense. I'm sure even the most inept prosecutor would think to argue the inaction was induced by fear.
Look, I get it, you're a believer. Everyone's entitled to their own faith. But you can't convince me 'tacit acceptance through inaction' makes government 'of the people' real in any way. In my rational view rule of law is a myth. Sometimes the people with the guns respect the law and sometimes they do not. Might makes right.
You're saying things have to get shitty before people are inclined to revolt. Now if that's indeed true, then your so called 'will of the people' is managed as simply as turning the food supply on and off, is it not?
You can't convince me inaction means government 'of the people' is in any way a reality. In my rational view, rule of law is a myth and might makes right, and it's been that way since Babylon.
(Edited 4 minutes later.)
squeegee !first/o5zA (OP) replied with this 12 years ago, 41 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^][v]#464,276
@previous (E) > might makes right
the meek shall inherit the earth.
Stopping the food supply would be one intolerable thing that a government could do that would be against the will of the people that would result in revolt, yes. But so would mass executions, or overly high taxation, or rampant poverty, or a whole lot of other bad shit. That kind of shit only goes on for so long before the people usurp their power.
in other words, might changes hands when enough is enough. Watch what happens in north korea.
i'll be proven right again, just wait.
decibelmilliwatts !!8lSAEPzaj joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 3 hours later, 21 hours after the original post[^][v]#464,318
It's a US State Department-backed fascist coup, pretty much.
Metæ replied with this 12 years ago, 37 minutes later, 21 hours after the original post[^][v]#464,321
@previous (decibelmilliwatts !!8lSAEPzaj)
Price controls don't work (and never have). Maduro is scapegoating the CIA because it's easier than admitting socialism has failed (again).
decibelmilliwatts !!8lSAEPzaj replied with this 12 years ago, 4 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#464,333
Murdering all your fucking labourers via insufficient wages and exorbitant prices. :v
Anonymous I joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 9 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#464,367
@464,269 (squeegee !first/o5zA)
The Soviet Union went down because they wouldn't give up on Afghanistan. The very same reason the U.S. is crumbling today.
It's got nothing to do with social change or the will of the governed, as both these things are easily manipulated by the magic of ritual and institutional idolatry. It's simply the insanity of repeating mistakes of the past while imagining this time will be different.
Anonymous J joined in and replied with this 12 years ago, 9 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#464,402
Well, the Fed has indeed been dumping foreign currency holdings in an attempt to export inflation and stimulate international demand for US treasury paper. So it's not entirely wrong to say the US is behind this.