Topic: When was the last time the American armed forces actually "fought for our freedom"?
Meta started this discussion 13 years ago #32,501
I've looked at all the wars in living memory and this is what I've come up with:
WWI: fighting for Europe's freedom.
WWII: ditto; plus the South Pacific's freedom
Korean War: fighting for South Korea's freedom
Vietnam war: fighting for Vietnam's freedom
Gulf War I: fighting for Kuwait's freedom
Gulf War I: fighting for Iraq's freedom
War in Afghanistan: "Revenge" for 9/11 but really a 12+ year war fighting for Afghanistan's freedom
I hate to be all unpatriotic, but I really don't see much fighting for our freedom.
Also why are the armed forces in general and veterans in particular fetishized so much? It's a job like any other, with its own set of risks and rewards, not some sacred divine calling. It's a dangerous job, but so is coal mining and you never see the media lavishing praise on coal miners because they put their lives on the line every day to keep the lights on.
WWI: fighting for Europe's freedom.
WWII: ditto; plus the South Pacific's freedom
Korean War: fighting for South Korea's freedom
Vietnam war: fighting for Vietnam's freedom
Gulf War I: fighting for Kuwait's freedom
Gulf War I: fighting for Iraq's freedom
War in Afghanistan: "Revenge" for 9/11 but really a 12+ year war fighting for Afghanistan's freedom
I hate to be all unpatriotic, but I really don't see much fighting for our freedom.
Also why are the armed forces in general and veterans in particular fetishized so much? It's a job like any other, with its own set of risks and rewards, not some sacred divine calling. It's a dangerous job, but so is coal mining and you never see the media lavishing praise on coal miners because they put their lives on the line every day to keep the lights on.
Triptych !IupsXZPnnU joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 3 minutes later[^] [v] #453,805
I don't mind Remembrance Day. Sure, a lot of them were doing it for themselves, but that's fine, it did end up being for Canada's benefit. It's really also just a WWI and WWII thing, here. They're getting fucked over pretty badly by the government, so the donations for poppies help.
(Edited 23 seconds later.)
Meta (OP) replied with this 13 years ago, 12 minutes later, 16 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #453,807
@previous (Triptych !IupsXZPnnU)
Here in USAmerica, its a holiday for all veterans but how did WWI/II end up being for Canada's benefit?
Here in USAmerica, its a holiday for all veterans but how did WWI/II end up being for Canada's benefit?
Anonymous C joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 1 minute later, 18 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #453,808
yooo our armed forces deserve respect despite the reasons for which they are sent to war
war is not a coal mine meta
war is not a coal mine meta
Triptych !IupsXZPnnU replied with this 13 years ago, 2 hours later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #453,821
@453,807 (Meta)
They were very important in the development of Canada as its own country independent of Britain. WWI was the beginning of industry in Canada. WWII was also the cause of the end of the Depression.
They were very important in the development of Canada as its own country independent of Britain. WWI was the beginning of industry in Canada. WWII was also the cause of the end of the Depression.
(Edited 40 seconds later.)
Anonymous D joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 9 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #453,822
cool thing about this thread is nobody answered the question
so ill do it
op: never, america has never been in any real danger that there needed to be a war for "freedom" since the revolutionary war
so ill do it
op: never, america has never been in any real danger that there needed to be a war for "freedom" since the revolutionary war
Syntax joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 26 seconds later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #453,823
@453,807 (Meta)I am still not exactly sure how Canada got out from under total control of Britain. Canucks still suck up to the Queen or King, but I suspect they keep Brit hands of Canucks money.
Now back to the topic:
Without going to war Kennedy stood up to Ruskies and kept missile's out of Cuba. Cost of Cuban Cigars went sky high, which is more better then missiles going sky high.
(Edited 20 seconds later.)
Triptych !IupsXZPnnU replied with this 13 years ago, 5 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #453,824
@previous (Syntax)
Canada gained autonomy in 1931 with the Statute of Westminster, along with every other colony.
Further, JFK was a twat who nearly started a war over something the US instigated.
Canada gained autonomy in 1931 with the Statute of Westminster, along with every other colony.
Further, JFK was a twat who nearly started a war over something the US instigated.
Anonymous D replied with this 13 years ago, 3 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #453,826
@453,823 (Syntax)
> I am still not exactly sure how Canada got out from under total control of Britain. Canucks still suck up to the Queen or King, but I suspect they keep Brit hands of Canucks money.
>
> Now back to the topic:
>
> Without going to war Kennedy stood up to Ruskies and kept missile's out of Cuba. Cost of Cuban Cigars went sky high, which is more better then missiles going sky high.
lol that isn't what happened at all, there wasn't even a "war"- the cold war was only "war" in name only, it was just an arms race, the only reason kennedy put a trade embargo on cuba (which was something he didn't want to do) was because of the whole red scare thing happening, cuba was communist so instead of outright attacking them whats something else we could do? embargo, we've done it to a ton of other countries.
Someone told me that if we didn't get involved in ww2 germany would have won and beat russia which is just simply not the case, not taking into consideration the size of russia and the complete mania under stalin, germany wouldn't have had a chance either way. Hitler conquered like, a quarter of europe at that time, or half? memory is fuzzy, but the point is that there simply wouldn't have been a chance. Hitler had too much on his plate to be able to take them on. I guess we freed the jews though? still though thats not america or americans having freedom threatened in any way.
> I am still not exactly sure how Canada got out from under total control of Britain. Canucks still suck up to the Queen or King, but I suspect they keep Brit hands of Canucks money.
>
> Now back to the topic:
>
> Without going to war Kennedy stood up to Ruskies and kept missile's out of Cuba. Cost of Cuban Cigars went sky high, which is more better then missiles going sky high.
lol that isn't what happened at all, there wasn't even a "war"- the cold war was only "war" in name only, it was just an arms race, the only reason kennedy put a trade embargo on cuba (which was something he didn't want to do) was because of the whole red scare thing happening, cuba was communist so instead of outright attacking them whats something else we could do? embargo, we've done it to a ton of other countries.
Someone told me that if we didn't get involved in ww2 germany would have won and beat russia which is just simply not the case, not taking into consideration the size of russia and the complete mania under stalin, germany wouldn't have had a chance either way. Hitler conquered like, a quarter of europe at that time, or half? memory is fuzzy, but the point is that there simply wouldn't have been a chance. Hitler had too much on his plate to be able to take them on. I guess we freed the jews though? still though thats not america or americans having freedom threatened in any way.
420トリ joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 2 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #453,827
Blaze it faggit
Triptych !IupsXZPnnU replied with this 13 years ago, 1 minute later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #453,828
@453,826 (D)
There is absolutely no way that Germany could have defeated Russia. WWII would have ended with an Allied victory, just after a longer period of time and with many more Allied deaths. The US was never threatened by Germany, only really by Japan (and that's more complicated than a random unprovoked Pearl Harbour, too).
There is absolutely no way that Germany could have defeated Russia. WWII would have ended with an Allied victory, just after a longer period of time and with many more Allied deaths. The US was never threatened by Germany, only really by Japan (and that's more complicated than a random unprovoked Pearl Harbour, too).
420トリ replied with this 13 years ago, 1 minute later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #453,829
Blaze teh falg
Oh say deos taht stat pangked banned yet wav
Oh say deos taht stat pangked banned yet wav
Syntax replied with this 13 years ago, 16 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #453,833
@453,824 (Triptych !IupsXZPnnU)
> Statute of Westminster
LOL
All that did was leave in place the ruling Brits in say India with Brit army troops to back them. And of course Ireland where independence remains a mixed bag depending on which part n where one lives on that island. One could mention the mass of African nations where Brits continued to make a mess of it - OK sure the French and Belgians continued to fuck places they had no place being in the 1st place.
And Germany could have backed out of Russia and had more then they needed to own the rest of Europe but alas Germany was to occupied with killing Jews and Homos n Gypsies and so Ego driven they ended up wasting resources.
Good they lost cause German food is just so damned heavy and best for a very cold enviro.
> Statute of Westminster
LOL
All that did was leave in place the ruling Brits in say India with Brit army troops to back them. And of course Ireland where independence remains a mixed bag depending on which part n where one lives on that island. One could mention the mass of African nations where Brits continued to make a mess of it - OK sure the French and Belgians continued to fuck places they had no place being in the 1st place.
And Germany could have backed out of Russia and had more then they needed to own the rest of Europe but alas Germany was to occupied with killing Jews and Homos n Gypsies and so Ego driven they ended up wasting resources.
Good they lost cause German food is just so damned heavy and best for a very cold enviro.
Triptych !IupsXZPnnU replied with this 13 years ago, 1 minute later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #453,834
@previous (Syntax)
That has nothing to do with Canada.
That also has nothing to do with the fact that Germany would have lost the second world war in either case.
That has nothing to do with Canada.
That also has nothing to do with the fact that Germany would have lost the second world war in either case.
Meta (OP) replied with this 13 years ago, 2 hours later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #453,842
@453,821 (Triptych !IupsXZPnnU)
But how? All the war production stuff ended up blown up or in a scrap heap. Also, if WW2 did end the depression, was it worth it in terms of bloodshed?
@453,822 (D)
Yeah, 1812 was really the last war to protect America's freedom that I can find.
@453,826 (D)
I've always thought it was insane that Cuba's still embargoed, but we happily trade with (at least nominally) communist China and Vietnam.
@453,808 (C)
They definitely deserve respect, but not deification. Again, it's a just a job with risks and benefits that people apply for voluntarily (at least since the draft was ended -- the draft was slavery, plain and simple).
But how? All the war production stuff ended up blown up or in a scrap heap. Also, if WW2 did end the depression, was it worth it in terms of bloodshed?
@453,822 (D)
Yeah, 1812 was really the last war to protect America's freedom that I can find.
@453,826 (D)
I've always thought it was insane that Cuba's still embargoed, but we happily trade with (at least nominally) communist China and Vietnam.
@453,808 (C)
They definitely deserve respect, but not deification. Again, it's a just a job with risks and benefits that people apply for voluntarily (at least since the draft was ended -- the draft was slavery, plain and simple).
Ks !KansasxqvM joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 44 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #453,843
WWII might count, it seems like the Germans and Japanese would have eventually attacked again. Regardless if my last statement is true or not though, the soldier worship today is disgusting. If someone does something heroic, soldier or not they've earned some respect. The blanket recognition and praise of our armed forces is unwarranted and undeserved. On one hand I don't wanna be a Darryl Downer about the whole thing, but fuck, the biggest threat to our freedoms come from our own government. The more I learn about history and politics the more cynical and angry I become. People in general are so fucking ignorant, it's infuriating. But I was ignorant about a lot of shit too and there's still a bunch of shit I'm dumb about.
tl;dr fuck veterans day
tl;dr fuck veterans day
(Edited 29 seconds later.)
Anonymous C replied with this 13 years ago, 59 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #453,849
Triptych !IupsXZPnnU replied with this 13 years ago, 18 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #453,850
@453,842 (Meta)
Not really; it was the beginning of industry in Canada in general. After the war, the production turned to peacetime goods, which worked out pretty well.
It wasn't worth the bloodshed at all, but it was good for Canada and very important for its development as a country. That's all I'm saying.
Not really; it was the beginning of industry in Canada in general. After the war, the production turned to peacetime goods, which worked out pretty well.
It wasn't worth the bloodshed at all, but it was good for Canada and very important for its development as a country. That's all I'm saying.
squeegee !first/o5zA joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 5 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #453,852
@453,843 (Ks !KansasxqvM)
the more i think about it the more i am in favor of lying con-men running the government. i'm okay with corruption and bribery, trickery and bluster. because when it comes down to it, a con-man isn't really a fanatic, though he may say he is. and at the end of the day a con-man get's the job done and goes home. fatter and richer, yes, but he doesn't try to scuttle the whole process over his minority ideology.
watch out for honest fanatics.
the more i think about it the more i am in favor of lying con-men running the government. i'm okay with corruption and bribery, trickery and bluster. because when it comes down to it, a con-man isn't really a fanatic, though he may say he is. and at the end of the day a con-man get's the job done and goes home. fatter and richer, yes, but he doesn't try to scuttle the whole process over his minority ideology.
watch out for honest fanatics.
(Edited 1 minute later.)
Ks !KansasxqvM replied with this 13 years ago, 15 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #453,856
420トリ replied with this 13 years ago, 1 hour later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #453,865
Oh sun dose taht srat panties banner yet wade
Meta (OP) replied with this 13 years ago, 14 hours later, 23 hours after the original post[^] [v] #453,919
@453,843 (Ks !KansasxqvM)
The slavish worship of the armed forces reminds me of Fascism. I find it deeply unsettling. I thought it would have calmed down after the Bush presidency (remember how Obama was supposed to be anti-war lol?) but it just gets worse.
The slavish worship of the armed forces reminds me of Fascism. I find it deeply unsettling. I thought it would have calmed down after the Bush presidency (remember how Obama was supposed to be anti-war lol?) but it just gets worse.
(Edited 2 minutes later.)
Anonymous I joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 18 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #453,976
> I've looked at all the wars in living memory and this is what I've come up with:
> WWI: fighting for Europe's freedom.
> WWII: ditto; plus the South Pacific's freedom
FDR was in war with Japan and Germany in all but name since he can't declare war (the USA was attacking Japan and Germany but only skirmishes and freezing bank accounts). Germany went around conquering Europe and sending people with opposing cultures to the camps, and they got away with it. If FDR went to war then, he would be protecting Europe.
But he didn't then.
Germany then decided to change their mission and protect all of Europe from the USSR which wanted to take over Europe. They took over countries they didn't want (people weren't Germanic) and fought Russia for 5 years. As a result, Japan betrayed them, didn't attack Russia, and got the USA in the war. Italy who liked Germany for conquering, turned against it for trying to save Europe from Russia.
If the USA declared war before Germany fought Russia, it would be saving Europe from Germany. But nope, they didn't save Europe because Russia got half of it. Germany killed 6 million civilians in labor/death camps, the USSR killed 100 million civilians in labor/death camps.
> Korean War: fighting for South Korea's freedom
> Vietnam war: fighting for Vietnam's freedom
> Gulf War I: fighting for Kuwait's freedom
> Gulf War I: fighting for Iraq's freedom
> War in Afghanistan: "Revenge" for 9/11 but really a 12+ year war fighting for Afghanistan's freedom
Before this list was the civil war. It was fought to oppress state that wanted to break free. It actually wasn't to free the slaves, that was giving the war a moral reason. A lot of opposition to slavery was opposing the importing of millions of Africans.
> WWI: fighting for Europe's freedom.
> WWII: ditto; plus the South Pacific's freedom
FDR was in war with Japan and Germany in all but name since he can't declare war (the USA was attacking Japan and Germany but only skirmishes and freezing bank accounts). Germany went around conquering Europe and sending people with opposing cultures to the camps, and they got away with it. If FDR went to war then, he would be protecting Europe.
But he didn't then.
Germany then decided to change their mission and protect all of Europe from the USSR which wanted to take over Europe. They took over countries they didn't want (people weren't Germanic) and fought Russia for 5 years. As a result, Japan betrayed them, didn't attack Russia, and got the USA in the war. Italy who liked Germany for conquering, turned against it for trying to save Europe from Russia.
If the USA declared war before Germany fought Russia, it would be saving Europe from Germany. But nope, they didn't save Europe because Russia got half of it. Germany killed 6 million civilians in labor/death camps, the USSR killed 100 million civilians in labor/death camps.
> Korean War: fighting for South Korea's freedom
> Vietnam war: fighting for Vietnam's freedom
> Gulf War I: fighting for Kuwait's freedom
> Gulf War I: fighting for Iraq's freedom
> War in Afghanistan: "Revenge" for 9/11 but really a 12+ year war fighting for Afghanistan's freedom
Before this list was the civil war. It was fought to oppress state that wanted to break free. It actually wasn't to free the slaves, that was giving the war a moral reason. A lot of opposition to slavery was opposing the importing of millions of Africans.
(Edited 1 minute later.)
420トリ replied with this 13 years ago, 3 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #454,000
Fancy babies and teh hoem of teh barve
Anonymous J joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 14 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #454,001
@OP
> I've looked at all the wars in living memory and this is what I've come up with:
> WWI: fighting for Europe's freedom.
> WWII: ditto; plus the South Pacific's freedom
> Korean War: fighting for South Korea's freedom
> Vietnam war: fighting for Vietnam's freedom
> Gulf War I: fighting for Kuwait's freedom
> Gulf War I: fighting for Iraq's freedom
> War in Afghanistan: "Revenge" for 9/11 but really a 12+ year war fighting for Afghanistan's freedom
>
> I hate to be all unpatriotic, but I really don't see much fighting for our freedom.
>
> Also why are the armed forces in general and veterans in particular fetishized so much? It's a job like any other, with its own set of risks and rewards, not some sacred divine calling. It's a dangerous job, but so is coal mining and you never see the media lavishing praise on coal miners because they put their lives on the line every day to keep the lights on.
This. Thank you.
> I've looked at all the wars in living memory and this is what I've come up with:
> WWI: fighting for Europe's freedom.
> WWII: ditto; plus the South Pacific's freedom
> Korean War: fighting for South Korea's freedom
> Vietnam war: fighting for Vietnam's freedom
> Gulf War I: fighting for Kuwait's freedom
> Gulf War I: fighting for Iraq's freedom
> War in Afghanistan: "Revenge" for 9/11 but really a 12+ year war fighting for Afghanistan's freedom
>
> I hate to be all unpatriotic, but I really don't see much fighting for our freedom.
>
> Also why are the armed forces in general and veterans in particular fetishized so much? It's a job like any other, with its own set of risks and rewards, not some sacred divine calling. It's a dangerous job, but so is coal mining and you never see the media lavishing praise on coal miners because they put their lives on the line every day to keep the lights on.
This. Thank you.