Topic: Guns don't kill people.
Anonymous A started this discussion 13 years ago #30,564
They just make it exponentially easier for people to kill people. Thanks.
Anonymous B joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 5 minutes later[^] [v] #438,717
fatfuck
Meta !PARAdoxiHw joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 2 minutes later, 7 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #438,718
But what's the solution? There's so many guns now that it's unfeasible to confiscate them all. And even if you could, it's possible for anyone with a double digit IQ and some steel pipe to make a gun (and now with 3D printers, you can just print one). And I don't think gun control laws are the answer because criminals, by definition, ignore the law. I'd wager that most firearm homicides in America take place in areas with strict gun control like Chicago.
Pandora's box can't be closed. Best idea would be to arm every sane adult. Yes, criminals would be armed too, but they'd probably think twice knowing their victims could shoot back.
Pandora's box can't be closed. Best idea would be to arm every sane adult. Yes, criminals would be armed too, but they'd probably think twice knowing their victims could shoot back.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 13 years ago, 2 minutes later, 10 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #438,720
@previous (Meta !PARAdoxiHw)
In China, neither citizens nor police carry guns, and it is much less violent than Murika. What is wrong what that as a solution?
In China, neither citizens nor police carry guns, and it is much less violent than Murika. What is wrong what that as a solution?
Meta !PARAdoxiHw replied with this 13 years ago, 9 minutes later, 20 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #438,722
@previous (A)
You've also got to take culture and history into account. Guns were never really an integral part of China (nor Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong, etc). The citizens never had to be disarmed because they weren't really armed in the first place. And China's not shy about bringing out weapons when the populace gets uppity. Remember tank man in the square of heavenly peace?
The thing with guns is, I believe, not so much the total killing power, but the differential in killing power. If neither of us have a gun, we're more or less equal. If we're both carrying pistols, again we're equal. But if I have a gun and you don't, then it can get bad.
You've also got to take culture and history into account. Guns were never really an integral part of China (nor Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong, etc). The citizens never had to be disarmed because they weren't really armed in the first place. And China's not shy about bringing out weapons when the populace gets uppity. Remember tank man in the square of heavenly peace?
The thing with guns is, I believe, not so much the total killing power, but the differential in killing power. If neither of us have a gun, we're more or less equal. If we're both carrying pistols, again we're equal. But if I have a gun and you don't, then it can get bad.
Anonymous D joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 48 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #438,732
@438,718 (Meta !PARAdoxiHw)
You're not serious, right? Too many guns is the problem, and your solution is more guns?
You're not serious, right? Too many guns is the problem, and your solution is more guns?
kook !!32zdfdzi+ joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #438,734
beckyderp !8ElfFaoFao joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 6 hours later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #438,812
@438,718 (Meta !PARAdoxiHw)@438,722 (Meta !PARAdoxiHw)
This is so retarded it makes my fucking head hurt.
(Edited 5 minutes later.)
beckyderp !8ElfFaoFao double-posted this 13 years ago, 56 seconds later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #438,813
beckyderp !8ElfFaoFao triple-posted this 13 years ago, 48 seconds later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #438,814
I've thought about it, and decided that the solution is MORE GUNS.beckyderp !8ElfFaoFao quadruple-posted this 13 years ago, 3 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #438,815
NO PROBLEM HERE! (As long as it's just black people dying, or something.)AnonoMoose joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 1 minute later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #438,816
guns and firearms in general are mainly how people kill themselves soo that is sorta wrong
Anonymous H joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 1 minute later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #438,817
Americans are pretty much idiots.AnonoMoose replied with this 13 years ago, 1 minute later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #438,819
@438,815 (beckyderp !8ElfFaoFao)
> NO PROBLEM HERE! (As long as it's just black people dying, or something.)
are you being rasist?
> NO PROBLEM HERE! (As long as it's just black people dying, or something.)
are you being rasist?
beckyderp !8ElfFaoFao replied with this 13 years ago, 1 minute later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #438,821
@previous (AnonoMoose)
No. I genuinely don't think NRA types care as long as it's just black people dying.
No. I genuinely don't think NRA types care as long as it's just black people dying.
AnonoMoose replied with this 13 years ago, 2 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #438,824
oh k then, soz about that
(Edited 1 minute later.)
Anonymous I joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 49 minutes later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #438,836
The gunless are like helpless unwanted fetuses in the womb just waiting to have their brains spilled out.
squeegee joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 14 minutes later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #438,840
Anonymous K joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 2 hours later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #438,893
Meta !PARAdoxiHw replied with this 13 years ago, 5 hours later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #439,029
@438,813 (beckyderp !8ElfFaoFao)
Mexico is an interesting outlier and why is Canada so much more violent than Germany? But you're right my arguments are retarded and I think with @438,815 (beckyderp !8ElfFaoFao) you're trying to imply some kind of racism thing so I'm probably a racist then, too.
Fuck it you guys are right I'm wrong my arguments are shit I don't care anymore.
Mexico is an interesting outlier and why is Canada so much more violent than Germany? But you're right my arguments are retarded and I think with @438,815 (beckyderp !8ElfFaoFao) you're trying to imply some kind of racism thing so I'm probably a racist then, too.
Fuck it you guys are right I'm wrong my arguments are shit I don't care anymore.
(Edited 21 seconds later.)
beckyderp !8ElfFaoFao replied with this 13 years ago, 38 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #439,040
Anonymous K replied with this 13 years ago, 4 minutes later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #439,041
Meta !PARAdoxiHw replied with this 13 years ago, 2 minutes later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #439,042
Anonymous L joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 14 minutes later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #439,043
People kill people.
Meta !PARAdoxiHw replied with this 13 years ago, 1 minute later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #439,044
@439,041 (K)
I have been binge eating and drinking as much as possible the past few months. I hope I die soon. I will prove my thesis by dying of heart failure, not guns. They will need four strong men and a forklift to dispose of the carcass.
I have been binge eating and drinking as much as possible the past few months. I hope I die soon. I will prove my thesis by dying of heart failure, not guns. They will need four strong men and a forklift to dispose of the carcass.
(Edited 16 seconds later.)
Anonymous M joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 11 minutes later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #439,051
Yes, let's take away the guns of ordinary, law-abiding citizens. That will definitely stop all violent crimes.(Edited 29 seconds later.)
beckyderp !8ElfFaoFao replied with this 13 years ago, 5 minutes later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #439,054
beckyderp !8ElfFaoFao double-posted this 13 years ago, 2 minutes later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #439,055
@439,029 (Meta !PARAdoxiHw)
I'm not trying to beat you up. I just don't get your argument at all. No need to take it personally.
I'm not trying to beat you up. I just don't get your argument at all. No need to take it personally.
Annoying Old Woman joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 9 minutes later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #439,056
@438,718 (Meta !PARAdoxiHw)
For what it's worth, I completely agree with you. There's no practical way to stop the madness at this point, as unfortunate as that may be. Pandora's box indeed.
For what it's worth, I completely agree with you. There's no practical way to stop the madness at this point, as unfortunate as that may be. Pandora's box indeed.
Meta !PARAdoxiHw replied with this 13 years ago, 1 hour later, 20 hours after the original post[^] [v] #439,086
@439,055 (beckyderp !8ElfFaoFao)
It's much more anon k than you but in reality it's not either of you at all, but the culmination of much unhappiness. It's been a tough day I'm sorry guys.
<3 you
It's much more anon k than you but in reality it's not either of you at all, but the culmination of much unhappiness. It's been a tough day I'm sorry guys.
<3 you
green !BEERiVqJJw joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 2 minutes later, 20 hours after the original post[^] [v] #439,088
Guns don't kill people, bullets do.
Anonymous I replied with this 13 years ago, 1 hour later, 22 hours after the original post[^] [v] #439,116
@439,054 (beckyderp !8ElfFaoFao)
Someone never heard of mutually assured destruction; the strategic initiative to render nuclear weapons useless. If it can work for nukes it can certainly work for guns.
Someone never heard of mutually assured destruction; the strategic initiative to render nuclear weapons useless. If it can work for nukes it can certainly work for guns.
Anonymous N replied with this 13 years ago, 14 minutes later, 22 hours after the original post[^] [v] #439,117
Anonymous B replied with this 13 years ago, 1 hour later, 23 hours after the original post[^] [v] #439,135
@439,116 (I)
Yes the Cold War was a very productive and rational expenditure of industrial capacity and taxation. That model should be extended everywhere.
Yes the Cold War was a very productive and rational expenditure of industrial capacity and taxation. That model should be extended everywhere.
Anti joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 1 hour later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #439,154
Gun Control: History, Philosophy and Ethics (Worthwhile). @438,813 (beckyderp !8ElfFaoFao)
Your graph doesn't account for the actual size of the population for these countries. Of course the US for example is going to rank high because it has a larger population and allows for legal gun ownership.
Let's take a look at a List of countries by intentional homicide rate.
Why isn't the in the US 2nd place here? Is it because violence and homicide happens with or without guns and guns themselves don't cause crime but rather can be used maliciously in the wrong hands like any other tool?
This list of countries by population might help you to understand a little better.
@438,815 (beckyderp !8ElfFaoFao)
Why is black on black violence so prevalent? Even if you magickally removed all the guns it still would exist. Guns aren't the cause of the violence.
The graph is laughable.
@438,814 (beckyderp !8ElfFaoFao)
I think more guns in the hands of law abiding citizens is a great idea. In areas with the concentration of legal gun ownership is high, violent crime is lower. Why do you think that is?
I included a graph of my own since you seem to like them. It shows a not so surprising decreasing trend of homicides in FL from when the right-to-carry (right to conceal carry firearms and other weapons) law was passed. Shouldn't homicide rates be on the rise if your conclusions were accurate?
The fact of the matter is that violence would still exist with or without guns.
As would homicide.
Guns are just a tool.
@438,816 (AnonoMoose)
lolno
@438,734 (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
Accidental shootings and negligent discharges happen but are preventable without removing guns from the equation.
@438,821 (beckyderp !8ElfFaoFao)
lol
is dis nigga srs?
@439,051 (M)
It seems to work well. Why just look at how stricter gun control has stopped Chicago's gun crime (lol). Why is it that when you have a concentration of legal gun ownership in an area the crime rate drops? Is it maybe that criminals don't want to be shot?
@438,718 (Meta !PARAdoxiHw)
Gun confisication would be very v. messy in the states.
As for 3D printed guns, while they've come a long way, they still fail pretty quickly and it may be some time before we have it perfected. Still it's pretty exciting stuff.
Actually manufacturing a firearm more advanced than a zipgun really requires a machine shop and a little know how. Even if you had the bulk of the parts from a gun kit, a lot of people don't have the means nor expertise to build/re-build/repair a receiver.
@439,056 (Annoying Old Woman)
You're not going to be able to remove the guns but there are regulations that can be put in placed to help curtail gun violence. I am very pro-gun but I wouldn't balk tax hikes on ammunition, more stringent background checks, compulsory firearms safety training, more funding for buyback programs, etc. Still you have to look at the cause of the violence in the first place. The guns may be used to carry out acts of violence but they are not the cause of the violence itself.
Anonymous I replied with this 13 years ago, 20 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #439,157
@439,135 (B)
You realize the economy was about 10x better during the cold war than it is now. Don't you?
You realize the economy was about 10x better during the cold war than it is now. Don't you?
Anonymous Q joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 3 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #439,158
@previous (I)
I'm not sure what that has to do with all those fucking graphs, but I agree. The pretend economy was way better back in the day.
I'm not sure what that has to do with all those fucking graphs, but I agree. The pretend economy was way better back in the day.
Anonymous R joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 1 hour later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #439,167
beckyderp !8ElfFaoFao replied with this 13 years ago, 28 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #439,184
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 13 years ago, 2 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #439,196
@439,086 (Meta !PARAdoxiHw)
Matæ: I may not always agree with what you say, but that's okay because you're a cool guy and I like you.
<3
Matæ: I may not always agree with what you say, but that's okay because you're a cool guy and I like you.
<3
Anonymous B replied with this 13 years ago, 2 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #439,204
Anti joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 6 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #439,214
@439,167 (R)
Welp, that settles it.
@439,184 (beckyderp !8ElfFaoFao)
> I can't defend my posistion w/ reason and evidence but I can use google images search
Lolok.
Welp, that settles it.
@439,184 (beckyderp !8ElfFaoFao)
> I can't defend my posistion w/ reason and evidence but I can use google images search
Lolok.
Meta !PARAdoxiHw replied with this 13 years ago, 2 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #439,249
@439,154 (Anti)
Yeah, the 3D printed guns are a one shot and throw it away deal. And with no rifling and no barrel to speak of, it would be useful only within a few feet. I've seen quite a few decent homemade firearms on YouTube, even a submachine gun made from standard hardware store stuff (except the barrel, which seems to be the difficult bit). Also saw a video where a moron made .410 shotgun with copper plumbing pipe. I was amazed when it didn't blow up.
The book "Zips, pipes, and pens: arsenal of improvised weapons" is fascinating reading. I'm just astounded by the ingenuity and creativity that people violate the law with.
I'm skeptical of the notion that an armed populace will overthrow or prevent the development of a tyrannical state. Maybe back in the 18th century when the smoothbore musket was state of the art, but not today. A militia, even with M16s/AK-47s doesn't stand a chance against a SWAT team with armored fighting vehicles, helicopters, riot gear, body armor superior manpower, etc.
Yeah, the 3D printed guns are a one shot and throw it away deal. And with no rifling and no barrel to speak of, it would be useful only within a few feet. I've seen quite a few decent homemade firearms on YouTube, even a submachine gun made from standard hardware store stuff (except the barrel, which seems to be the difficult bit). Also saw a video where a moron made .410 shotgun with copper plumbing pipe. I was amazed when it didn't blow up.
The book "Zips, pipes, and pens: arsenal of improvised weapons" is fascinating reading. I'm just astounded by the ingenuity and creativity that people violate the law with.
I'm skeptical of the notion that an armed populace will overthrow or prevent the development of a tyrannical state. Maybe back in the 18th century when the smoothbore musket was state of the art, but not today. A militia, even with M16s/AK-47s doesn't stand a chance against a SWAT team with armored fighting vehicles, helicopters, riot gear, body armor superior manpower, etc.
Anti replied with this 13 years ago, 6 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #439,423
There have been a couple impressive 3D printed guns that have lasted for a little over a 100 shots/cycles. Still it's very new and a lot of the people interested in it don't have the expertise or resources to make something worthwhile.
I'll check out the book.
Not all LEO are as proficient as you might think but the biggest advantage they would have over militas isn't their resources but the training they received up to that point. Most of them are still underfunded or ill-equipped to deal with the kind of force a cohesive milita could offer. More and more resources for paramilitary training is finding it's way into the private sector.
You figure a swat team in a large city might take 40 men, an apc, and spend a decent chunk just to round up a few armed drug dealers that may resist. This sort of arrest or exercise would be almost useless during an armed revolt. Especially when a radical militant cell anticipates violence or takes the offensive. Revolutionaries also wouldn't abide by the same rules of engagement that LEO are accustomed to.
As for "domestic terrorists" or "militias" vs modern LEO... well, there are solutions beyond guerrilla tactics to deal with those handicaps (vehicles can be up-armored, weapons modified to FA, basic body armour isn't all that cost prohibitive, there are private aircrafts that can be utilized and of course some dissidents would already be in LE or the military and could divert resources easily enough). I think it's great that people have a hobby and all but I don't foresee a revolution anytime soon. People are too complacent and in the states anyone that engages in paramilitary training is branded a "domestic terrorist", it doesn't matter if they're in law enforcement, the military, etc, their involvement with a milita that does paramilitary training makes them a threat.
I'll check out the book.
Not all LEO are as proficient as you might think but the biggest advantage they would have over militas isn't their resources but the training they received up to that point. Most of them are still underfunded or ill-equipped to deal with the kind of force a cohesive milita could offer. More and more resources for paramilitary training is finding it's way into the private sector.
You figure a swat team in a large city might take 40 men, an apc, and spend a decent chunk just to round up a few armed drug dealers that may resist. This sort of arrest or exercise would be almost useless during an armed revolt. Especially when a radical militant cell anticipates violence or takes the offensive. Revolutionaries also wouldn't abide by the same rules of engagement that LEO are accustomed to.
As for "domestic terrorists" or "militias" vs modern LEO... well, there are solutions beyond guerrilla tactics to deal with those handicaps (vehicles can be up-armored, weapons modified to FA, basic body armour isn't all that cost prohibitive, there are private aircrafts that can be utilized and of course some dissidents would already be in LE or the military and could divert resources easily enough). I think it's great that people have a hobby and all but I don't foresee a revolution anytime soon. People are too complacent and in the states anyone that engages in paramilitary training is branded a "domestic terrorist", it doesn't matter if they're in law enforcement, the military, etc, their involvement with a milita that does paramilitary training makes them a threat.
(Edited 21 seconds later.)
Meta !PARAdoxiHw replied with this 13 years ago, 22 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #439,426
@previous (Anti)
The 3D printed AR 15 receivers seem okay (and from a legal standpoint the receiver is the firearm). It's just not feasible though to make a good gun out the plastic 3D printers use. If small, cheap CNC machine tools become available, it would be possible to "print" a gun from steel, which would be game over for gun control.
There won't be a revolution as long as the populace has a Big Mac in one hand and a TV remote in the other.
The 3D printed AR 15 receivers seem okay (and from a legal standpoint the receiver is the firearm). It's just not feasible though to make a good gun out the plastic 3D printers use. If small, cheap CNC machine tools become available, it would be possible to "print" a gun from steel, which would be game over for gun control.
There won't be a revolution as long as the populace has a Big Mac in one hand and a TV remote in the other.
Anonymous B replied with this 13 years ago, 25 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #439,431
@previous (Meta !PARAdoxiHw)
The patent for laser sintering 3D printing expires February 2014. That process can work with metals :)
The patent for laser sintering 3D printing expires February 2014. That process can work with metals :)
Anonymous R replied with this 13 years ago, 4 hours later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #439,480
Anonymous I replied with this 13 years ago, 3 hours later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #439,500
@439,426 (Meta !PARAdoxiHw)
> There won't be a revolution as long as the populace has a Big Mac in one hand and a TV remote in the other.
Exactly this. Gun control is irrelevant, when we have mind control. Most of the gun violence is inspired by pop culture anyways, which is of course an NWO design. Manufacturing the need for gun control and disarming of the populace will allow them to roll the country much more easily in a decade or so.
> There won't be a revolution as long as the populace has a Big Mac in one hand and a TV remote in the other.
Exactly this. Gun control is irrelevant, when we have mind control. Most of the gun violence is inspired by pop culture anyways, which is of course an NWO design. Manufacturing the need for gun control and disarming of the populace will allow them to roll the country much more easily in a decade or so.
Anti replied with this 13 years ago, 15 hours later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #439,704
@439,480 (R)
That graphs are easily produced fodder to manipulate people w/? Sure.
That graphs are easily produced fodder to manipulate people w/? Sure.
(Edited 1 minute later.)