Minichan

what's UKIP?

@previous (hamfist !2E1ogQqRO.)
UK political party, wants the UK to leave the European Union.

Maybe should've specified that this was mostly for Britfriends, but thought that some of the more politcally aware Amerifriends just might've heard of them.

@414,288 (hamfist !2E1ogQqRO.)
Also,

Nigel Farage is grate.

Is Cornwall putting disabled children out of their misery yet?

small minded racist borderline mental little englanders

also their logo is Terrible and so are their colours

@414,444 (!KThEOwLwbU)
Yes! My thoughts exactly. They're also global warming deniers, and homophobes. One of their fucking MPs even said that homosexuality was caused by a "lack of fitness". Fucking infuriating! They're basically Republicans.

But I'm glad that, here at least, nobody has fallen for them. Perhaps the EU and our role in it is a legit issue that warrants consideration, but the sheer amount of stupidity they come with does not make it worth it in any measure. Christ.

@414,406 (D)
Nope. We still have those minibuses for them!

I would vote for UKIP as I support quite a lot of their policies, but remember:

A vote for UKIP is a vote for Labour.

I agree with what Cameron said back in 2006: a bunch of fruitcakes, loonies, and closet racists.

They're a protest vote, and in the same fashion as the Lib Dems there's no way they'll do as good as they did in the local elections when the general elections roll around.

@414,445 (!KThEOwLwbU)
also this

i herd u liek ukip

@414,485 (TTEH !JXsxEkDBLs)
> wanting to limit immigration = racist
Leftist logic.

@previous (F)
Except for the actual instances of bigotry within their party.

Limiting immigration is a legitimate issue, but you can't let bigots handle it. Needs to be done as objectively as possible.

@414,495 (F)
Pic related: later gave a Nazi salute and uploaded it to Facebook.

It is not racist to want to limit immigration but it is racist to... be racist. Thanks.

@414,497 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
I think the Tories will adopt serious immigration control as a policy in response to UKIP, in addition to EU issues.

@414,497 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
Just because there are a few cases of "bigotry" does not mean that every member of the party is racist.

I'd rather Nigel handle the immigration issue than Ed-fucking-Milliband.

@414,499 (TTEH !JXsxEkDBLs)
> "I am in absolutely no doubt at all that that photograph of Alex Wood was nothing to do with a Nazi gesture," he said.
> "He was literally reaching across the pub to pull the camera away from a girlfriend who was photographing him and I have witness statements that support that.
Also:
> Another picture obtained by the Daily Mirror showed Mr Wood with a knife between his teeth in front of a Union flag, but he claims this was a pirate-themed Hollywood stunt.
http://news.sky.com/story/1085563/ukip-nazi-salute-was-grab-for-camera

@414,501 (TTEH !JXsxEkDBLs)
http://www.conservatives.com/News/News_stories/2013/02/Net_immigration_cut_by_a_third.aspx

@414,501 (TTEH !JXsxEkDBLs)
This would be the ideal outcome, yeah. Hopefully it's not just talk and they'll follow through. Otherwise UKIP is just going to get more ammunition.

@414,504 (F)
But it's a very good indicator of their mindset. They clearly haven't taken a hard line against it, so it's fairly obvious that they're okay with it.

@previous (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
> They clearly haven't taken a hard line against it
http://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/news/regional/ukip-suspends-anti-muslim-member-1-5640074
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/10026936/Ukip-candidate-suspended-over-Nazi-salute.html
http://www.darlingtonandstocktontimes.co.uk/news/10393359.Ukip_canvasser_suspended_over_racist_comments_and_images/?ref=nt

Like I said, their are obviously some racists in the party, but does that mean that they're all racists? Of course not.

When that Lib Dem guy was found out to be a nonce did anyone come out and label the whole party closet peados?

@414,506 (F)
> A former friend of Mr Wood’s at Yeovil college, who did not wish to be named, said: “Alex was very outspoken and radical – his opinions were very right-wing.

> "I remember him using the Nazi salute.”

@414,511 (F)
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/10026936/Ukip-candidate-suspended-over-Nazi-salute.html
Obviously UKIP didn't believe his "reaching for a camera" claim.

(Edited 16 seconds later.)

@414,511 (F)
The BNP similarly state as a party they oppose racism, and have racist and non-racist members alike, yet nobody has any qualms calling them a racist party due to the comments of their MPs and supporters. The majority of UKIP members I have met are card-carrying I'm-not-racist-but Daily Mail readers. UKIP attracts a lot of the middle-ground voters between the Tories and the BNP, though admittedly this will probably change as they gain more support.

(Edited 2 minutes later.)

@previous (TTEH !JXsxEkDBLs)
I think it's something of an inherent problem with anti-immigration parties. The goal itself isn't bad, and could be beneficial if handled correctly, but they inevitably attract bigots and go to shit as a result. Best bet is to get a "safe" mainstream parties to handle it.

@414,511 (F)
Not the issue. My point is that they exhibit a level of tolerance towards bigotry, and that's very telling about what they're like as a party.

@414,512 (TTEH !JXsxEkDBLs)
> “Alex was very outspoken and radical – his opinions were very right-wing.
Nothing wrong with having right-wing views.
> > "I remember him using the Nazi salute.”
This could've been taken out of context. He could have simply been joking.

@414,514 (TTEH !JXsxEkDBLs)
> Despite the party leader believing his excuse, Mr Wood is still suspended as police investigate his claim that offensive comments were made after his account was "hijacked".

> Mr Farage, on a visit to Ramsey in Cambridgeshire ahead of Thursday's elections, said he was considering reinstating him.

@414,518 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
> My point is that they exhibit a level of tolerance towards bigotry
I haven't seen any evidence that would lead me to believe this was true.

@414,463 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)

> But I'm glad that, here at least, nobody has fallen for them

u wot m8, they got loads of seats in council elections

@414,523 (F)

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/02/ukip-party-bigots-lets-look-evidence

Most important of all, we are asked to believe – and this is essential in making Ukip palatable to The Annoyed – that Ukip is not a party of bigots. That, it may walk like a duck and quack like a duck and be affiliated to other ducks all over Europe, but it is, in fact, a platypus. “I'd rather have a party of eccentrics than bland, ghastly people”, says Nigel Farage. Let us examine those eccentrics.
Links with European far-right parties

Ukip is part of the group Europe of Freedom and Democracy (EFD). The group includes representatives of the Danish People’s Party, the True Finns Party, the Dutch SGP and the infamous Italian Lega Nord – all of them far-right. Nigel Farage is co-President of the group along with Lega Nord’s Francesco Speroni, who described multiple murderer Anders Breivik as someone whose “ideas are in defence of western civilisation."

Mario Borghezio, another member of the group, declared in a radio interview that Breivik had some "excellent" ideas. Farage’s reaction was to write a strongly-worded letter to Borghezio, asking him to withdraw his comments or Ukip would pull out of the EFD. Borghezio not only did not apologise, but responded with an extraordinary speech in which he raged: "Long live the Whites of Europe, long live our identity, our ethnicity, our race… our blue sky, like the eyes of our women. Blue, in a people who want to stay white."

Nigel Farage did not withdraw from the EFD. He continues to co-preside over it, along with the leader of the Lega Nord. MEP Nikki Sinclaire, however, was expelled from Ukip for refusing to take part in the EFD because of their “extreme views”.
Links with domestic far-right parties

“Ukip has no links to the BNP,” explained Farage in 2007. The first line of any description of Ukip calls it “a libertarian, non-racist party”. What party, other than one skating close to the lines of taste and decency, needs to describe itself as “non-racist”? Farage boasted on The Andrew Marr Show (20 January 2013) that “Ukip is the only UK party to explicitly ban BNP members from joining”. What party, other than a party whose policies are attractive to such organisations, would need to do that?

Christopher Monckton, their Scotland Leader and Head of Policy Unit invited the now-defunct British Freedom Party – an amalgamation of mostly breakaway BNP members led by a former Ukip candidate until January 2013 – to join Ukip: “I would very much like them to come back and join us and we stand together.” Ukip’s excuse for this lapse? Monckton had been away on a tour of the US and was not up to speed with current policy. More recently, however, Farage refused to vote to oppose moves for the European Union to fund the BNP.

The founder of the party, Alan Sked, says it has become "extraordinarily right-wing" and is now devoted to "creating a fuss, via Islam and immigrants”.
Xenophobia

“Our traditional values have been undermined. Children are taught to be ashamed of our past. Multiculturalism has split our society. Political correctness is stifling free speech”, states the Ukip manifesto. Their “Pocket Guide to Immigration” promises to “end support for multiculturalism and promote one, common British culture”. After attracting some negative publicity, it has disappeared from here, but an archived version can be seen here (pdf).

One of their prospective MP candidates recently wrote: "A removal of multi-culturalism and assimilation of these people needs to be done to save them from the abyss of exclusion and welfare. Above all, one should not shy away of contemplating forced repatriation, or threatening it to further assimilation, as a result of their lack of economic contribution to the UK." In fact their position on “forced repatriation” and “assimilation” is indistinguishable from the BNP’s. Except, perhaps, that Ukip’s 2005 manifesto advocates that all incoming immigrants should be “subject to health checks” for “communicable diseases”.

More recently, during BBC’s Question Time, Farage caused upset with some gross generalisations he made about Bulgarian people. He sent his trusted lieutenant and deputy chairman of the party Paul Nuttall to Bulgaria to defuse the situation. Nuttall explained that he had nothing to apologise for, since he never bashed Bulgarians, but was just noting facts. He stressed that “Brits fear all immigrants, regardless of where they would come from.”
Islamophobia

“On the question of Islamification,” said Farage during a well-received speech, “we have to do a bit more to teach our children of the values of our Judeo-Christian society.” He proceeded to note that at least 20 police forces are turning a blind eye to the operation of Sharia Law and expressed admiration for countries which say: “You’re welcome to come here and to have your children here… but if you’re coming here to take us over, you’re not welcome.”

A recent manifesto commitment to "tackle extremist Islam by banning the burqa or veiled niqab in public buildings and certain private buildings" was further explained by Farage: "I can't go into a bank with a motorcycle helmet on. I can't wear a balaclava going round the District and Circle line.”

Finally, Ukip peer Lord Pearson put it unequivocally. "The Muslims are breeding ten times faster than us," he said. "I don't know at what point they reach such a number we are no longer able to resist the rest of their demands."
Misogyny

Ukip’s only female MEP (after the expulsion of Nikki Sinclaire) Marta Andreasen, recently threatened to leave the party, labelling Farage as an “anti-women Stalinist dictator” whose view is that “women should be in the kitchen or in the bedroom”.

This came as no surprise. His grasp of sexual politics has always been tenuous at best. As he explained in a Telegraph interview: “Lap dancing? Don’t have the time these days, but I used to go to them. Like it or not, they are a fact of life. You are talking about normal behaviour there. Everyone does it.” Then, asked about extra-marital affairs, he conceded: “Well, we’re all human. There is a big difference between that sort of thing and being really bad.”

When Godfrey Bloom MEP, infamous for making a speech in the European Parliament – one of his better ones – while heavily intoxicated, said that “no employer with a brain in the right place would employ a young, single, free woman”, Farage’s reaction was “Dear old Godders! Godfrey's comment [as above] has been proved so right.”
Views on the less able

In 2007, Jack Biggs alleged that he had been banned from running as a candidate because of his disability and presented significant evidence in support. Later, high-ranking member Alexandra Swann sided with a Ukip councillor who said it was dangerous to allow those who do not work to vote. Political Scrapbook reported her as saying that “allowing people to vote on how other people’s money is spent — if they don’t contribute — is dangerous”. This, presumably, would include those unable to contribute because of disability.

Finally, the apotheosis (and demise of Godwin’s law, forever hence) came when a UKIP candidate aired his repugnant views about compulsory abortion of all disabled babies.
Homophobia

Ousted MEP Nikki Sinclaire, who came out as a lesbian, won a sexual discrimination case against UKIP after refusing to sit with its homophobic allies in the European parliament.

On a private members’ forum, senior UKIP member and former parliamentary candidate Dr Julia Gasper claimed some homosexuals prefer sex with animals. The Mirror reported her as saying: “As for the links between homosexuality and paedophilia, there is so much evidence that even a full-length book could hardly do justice to the subject.” (Ironically, UKIP General Secretary Jonathan Arnott had banned a discussion on the site on gay issues, because he feared that someone “is going to screenshoot comments and send them to a newspaper”.) She was sacked.

More recently a UKIP Croydon North candidate tweeted: "A caring loving home is a heterosexual or single family. I don't believe (a gay couple) is healthy for a child." He did so, after retweeting an article written by a National Front supporter who claimed there was "no such thing as homophobia". He was sacked.

However, Olly Neville, the former UKIP Youth Chairman, was also sacked for supporting same-sex marriage. Sack them all, as long as we don’t have to talk about it, seems to be the policy.

***

These are the facts and they speak for themselves. This is a barrel in which you would be lucky to find one good apple, misplaced amongst the rotten ones. Like former UKIP activist Kim Gandy, who worked in care, but joked on Facebook that elderly people should be euthanised when they become a burden (she told the NS the comments were written after a bad day, and have been taken out of context), or Maggie Chapman, who cracks jokes about Muslims having sex with camels and “paki” families going home and spreads Christmas cheer with her “eggnog for nig-nogs”. Farage can distance himself from all of them; sack all of them; disinherit all of them. The inescapable truth is that it is his policies which attract them and will keep doing so; they remain his “eccentrics”.

Paul Nuttall once wrote: “We in Ukip know: if you champion British interest and culture then you are labelled a nationalist with all the connotations that goes [sic] with it.” I would remind Nuttall of the distinction drawn by Charles De Gaulle: “Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.” I look at the policies, the rhetoric and the candidates, and I see nothing about love of one’s own people. I see only hate for others.

Instead, if you find yourself nodding in agreement with a couple of items on Ukip’s long list of empty promises, remember all the other things you will also be signing up for. They represent a particularly insidious brand of extremist; Bigotry Light, if you will – all the hatred of normal bigotry, but none of the calories.

@414,548 (!KThEOwLwbU)
> here at least
> here
Though this was before the advent of Anonymous F

Also, I'm sure those council seats will be massively useful in helping them to leave the EU.

@414,523 (F)
There's the homophobia, which is actually a party policy.

@previous (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)

their success as councilmen is indicative of their potential at general election time, they will probably become a fourth party and cause another hung parliament

@previous (!KThEOwLwbU)
So they grabbed a few positions in local government. The general election is a very different game.

It's too early to tell if they'll be a major force in the general election, IMO. Things could change from now to then. But I fucking hope hope they're not. I'd like to think that we're a stable enough country to not start turning towards the bigots.

@previous (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)

> I'd like to think that we're a stable enough country to not start turning towards the bigots.

no i think we're doomed

@previous (!KThEOwLwbU)
I'm liking the optimism, buddy.

@previous (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
ALL IS LOST

@414,549 (!KThEOwLwbU)
There's not really anything wrong with most of those things you listed.

Except this:
> However, Olly Neville, the former UKIP Youth Chairman, was also sacked for supporting same-sex marriage. Sack them all, as long as we don’t have to talk about it, seems to be the policy.
This seems a bit discriminatory, but may have been taken out of context.


> Farage can distance himself from all of them; sack all of them; disinherit all of them. The inescapable truth is that it is his policies which attract them and will keep doing so; they remain his “eccentrics”.
Of course a party which wants to limit immigration will attract racists, but it is simply not true that all UKIP voters/members (or all right-wingers, for that matter) are racist homophobes and that is what you seem to be implying.

@previous (J)
> This seems a bit discriminatory, but may have been taken out of context.
What other context could there be? They're officially against same-sex marriage, this is a fact. He said that's why he had to leave. There's nothing ambiguous about it.

> Of course a party which wants to limit immigration will attract racists, but it is simply not true that all UKIP voters/members (or all right-wingers, for that matter) are racist homophobes and that is what you seem to be implying.
No, not all of them are racists, but a lot of them are, and it's tolerated by the party. One of the mainstream parties wouldn't tolerate it, but UKIP is strengthened by allowing such people.

And your disregarding of every other point raised is, well, wrong. You missed out these:
> its homophobic allies in the European parliament.
> Jack Biggs alleged that he had been banned from running as a candidate because of his disability and presented significant evidence in support.
> high-ranking member Alexandra Swann sided with a Ukip councillor who said it was dangerous to allow those who do not work to vote. Political Scrapbook reported her as saying that “allowing people to vote on how other people’s money is spent — if they don’t contribute — is dangerous”. This, presumably, would include those unable to contribute because of disability.
> When Godfrey Bloom MEP, infamous for making a speech in the European Parliament – one of his better ones – while heavily intoxicated, said that “no employer with a brain in the right place would employ a young, single, free woman”, Farage’s reaction was “Dear old Godders! Godfrey's comment [as above] has been proved so right.”
> Ukip’s only female MEP (after the expulsion of Nikki Sinclaire) Marta Andreasen, recently threatened to leave the party, labelling Farage as an “anti-women Stalinist dictator” whose view is that “women should be in the kitchen or in the bedroom”.
> Ukip is part of the group Europe of Freedom and Democracy (EFD). The group includes representatives of the Danish People’s Party, the True Finns Party, the Dutch SGP and the infamous Italian Lega Nord – all of them far-right. Nigel Farage is co-President of the group along with Lega Nord’s Francesco Speroni, who described multiple murderer Anders Breivik as someone whose “ideas are in defence of western civilisation."

How is there "nothing wrong" with all that? There's also all of the Daily Mail level sensationalism against Muslims, exemplified by the "Brits fear all immigrants" statement, which is just something they've said to prop up their views.

There's also the cases where a member has said something absolutely outrageous, but got fired. Even though the party had the brains to fire these people, they were still all drawn to UKIP in the first place.

(Edited 38 seconds later.)

This thread.

@previous (C)
Quality contribution, bud.

@previous (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
I posted a bloody picture already.

@previous (C)
You could have contributed so much more...

@414,591 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
> > This seems a bit discriminatory, but may have been taken out of context.
> What other context could there be? They're officially against same-sex marriage, this is a fact. He said that's why he had to leave. There's nothing ambiguous about it.
Not supporting same-sex marriage does not make you a homophobe.

> And your disregarding of every other point raised is, well, wrong. You missed out these:
I'm sorry, they were so ridiculous I didn't think they were serious points.

> > its homophobic allies in the European parliament.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
> > Jack Biggs alleged that he had been banned from running as a candidate because of his disability and presented significant evidence in support.
Key word: alleged.
> > high-ranking member Alexandra Swann sided with a Ukip councillor who said it was dangerous to allow those who do not work to vote. Political Scrapbook reported her as saying that “allowing people to vote on how other people’s money is spent — if they don’t contribute — is dangerous”. This, presumably, would include those unable to contribute because of disability.
The main reason we are in such deep shit economically is because of people who do not work being allowed to vote. They will vote for Labour because Labour gives them free handouts. Labour will fuck up the economy and the welfare bill will sky-rocket. The Conservatives will rightly try to cut the welfare bill but Labour will spout shit like "same old tories", "eton posh boys", "wouldnt know price of milk", etc. and the benefit-claiming plebs will vote for Labour again like the fucking sheeps they are.
> > When Godfrey Bloom MEP, infamous for making a speech in the European Parliament – one of his better ones – while heavily intoxicated, said that “no employer with a brain in the right place would employ a young, single, free woman”, Farage’s reaction was “Dear old Godders! Godfrey's comment [as above] has been proved so right.”
So what?
> > Ukip’s only female MEP (after the expulsion of Nikki Sinclaire) Marta Andreasen, recently threatened to leave the party, labelling Farage as an “anti-women Stalinist dictator” whose view is that “women should be in the kitchen or in the bedroom”.
Slander.
> > Ukip is part of the group Europe of Freedom and Democracy (EFD). The group includes representatives of the Danish People’s Party, the True Finns Party, the Dutch SGP and the infamous Italian Lega Nord – all of them far-right. Nigel Farage is co-President of the group along with Lega Nord’s Francesco Speroni, who described multiple murderer Anders Breivik as someone whose “ideas are in defence of western civilisation."
You can agree with someones political beliefs without agreeing with their actions.
> > How is there "nothing wrong" with all that? There's also all of the Daily Mail level sensationalism against Muslims, exemplified by the "Brits fear all immigrants" statement, which is just something they've said to prop up their views.
Maybe Brits do fear immigrants. Maybe they fear that they take will take their jobs. Maybe they fear their taxes are being wasted on these immigrants' benefits. Maybe they fear white British people will soon be a minority.
> > There's also the cases where a member has said something absolutely outrageous, but got fired. Even though the party had the brains to fire these people, they were still all drawn to UKIP in the first place.
It's tolerated by the party, even though the party had the brains to fire these people?

B-b-but UKIP are racist, i swear

@previous (K)
> Not supporting same-sex marriage does not make you a homophobe.
> okay, you gays aren't allowed these rights that straight people have

> I'm sorry, they were so ridiculous I didn't think they were serious points.
Excellent stratagy there, pretend that the opposing points are too ridiculous to answer.

> The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
So it's okay to mindlessly ally with anybody as long as your goals roughly align? You don't see any potential problems there? Maybe in associating with groups that are disliked for being racist?

> Key word: alleged.
More key words: "presented significant evidence in support".

> The main reason we are in such deep shit economically is because of people who do not work being allowed to vote. They will vote for Labour because Labour gives them free handouts. Labour will fuck up the economy and the welfare bill will sky-rocket. The Conservatives will rightly try to cut the welfare bill but Labour will spout shit like "same old tories", "eton posh boys", "wouldnt know price of milk", etc. and the benefit-claiming plebs will vote for Labour again like the fucking sheeps they are.
Sure, Labour can be dumb. But the main point there was the implications for those with disabilities. Maybe she just meant lazy people, but she really should have been clearer.#

> So what?
You're really not seeing the blatant discrimination against women? The "single" and "young" parts were bad enough, since that describes so many people, but the "free" part was downright chilling. And then the leader of the goddamn party comes and endorses all of that crap! How is that not evidence of them supporting discrimination?

> Slander.
Nice counter-point, you gave real evidence of UKIP not holding those views and discredited a highly reliable source.

> You can agree with someones political beliefs without agreeing with their actions.
You really don't see a problem with just arbitrarily associating with vaguely similar groups, do you? Okay, how do you think that people will view UKIP associating with these groups? What does it say about UKIP that they freely associate with these groups despite their distasteful statements? It says that they tolerate such views, for one.

> Maybe Brits do fear immigrants. Maybe they fear that they take will take their jobs. Maybe they fear their taxes are being wasted on these immigrants' benefits. Maybe they fear white British people will soon be a minority.
Blind panic is not a good response. Yes it's an issue, one which should be addressed, but just yelling "AAAAAGH! BROWN PEOPLE! GET THEM AWAY" is not a reasoned response.

> It's tolerated by the party, even though the party had the brains to fire these people?
It shows that the party attracts lots of these people, which says something about them.

@previous (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
> > Not supporting same-sex marriage does not make you a homophobe.
> okay, you gays aren't allowed these rights that straight people have
Marriage is a bond between a man, a woman and God. Thanks.
> > I'm sorry, they were so ridiculous I didn't think they were serious points.
> Excellent stratagy there, pretend that the opposing points are too ridiculous to answer.
I know, right?
> > The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
> So it's okay to mindlessly ally with anybody as long as your goals roughly align?
Yes. I am pretty sure that is the definition of an ally.
> > Key word: alleged.
> More key words: "presented significant evidence in support".
Innocent until proven guilty.
> > The main reason we are in such deep shit economically is because of people who do not work being allowed to vote. They will vote for Labour because Labour gives them free handouts. Labour will fuck up the economy and the welfare bill will sky-rocket. The Conservatives will rightly try to cut the welfare bill but Labour will spout shit like "same old tories", "eton posh boys", "wouldnt know price of milk", etc. and the benefit-claiming plebs will vote for Labour again like the fucking sheeps they are.
> Sure, Labour can be dumb. But the main point there was the implications for those with disabilities. Maybe she just meant lazy people, but she really should have been clearer.
Key word: presumably.
> > So what?
> You're really not seeing the blatant discrimination against women? The "single" and "young" parts were bad enough, since that describes so many people, but the "free" part was downright chilling. And then the leader of the goddamn party comes and endorses all of that crap! How is that not evidence of them supporting discrimination?
He was drunk. People say all kinds of shit when they are drunk.
> > Slander.
> Nice counter-point, you gave real evidence of UKIP not holding those views and discredited a highly reliable source.
There wasn't a point to counter.
> > You can agree with someones political beliefs without agreeing with their actions.
> You really don't see a problem with just arbitrarily associating with vaguely similar groups, do you? Okay, how do you think that people will view UKIP associating with these groups? What does it say about UKIP that they freely associate with these groups despite their distasteful statements? It says that they tolerate such views, for one.
I think some leftist views are distasteful, that doesn't mean I think people shouldn't be able to express their political views. stop_liking_what_i_dont_like.png, etc.
> > Maybe Brits do fear immigrants. Maybe they fear that they take will take their jobs. Maybe they fear their taxes are being wasted on these immigrants' benefits. Maybe they fear white British people will soon be a minority.
> Blind panic is not a good response. Yes it's an issue, one which should be addressed, but just yelling "AAAAAGH! BROWN PEOPLE! GET THEM AWAY" is not a reasoned response.
Nobody mentioned brown people. Immigration involves people of all colour.
> > It's tolerated by the party, even though the party had the brains to fire these people?
> It shows that the party attracts lots of these people, which says something about them.
It says that racist people will tend to support parties which want to impose limits on immigration, yes. Thank you, Captain Obvious.

@414,643 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)

you're talking to mountainpedo btw

@previous (!KThEOwLwbU)
I'm aware of this.

Have to say, he's not doing as well as he used to. He's resorted to vague blanket statements very quickly. He just... hasn't been the same since the Texas thread.

@414,754 (L)
Before you say anything, I'll reply later. Writing essay now.

@414,760 (!KThEOwLwbU)
> you're talking to mountainpedo btw
wat

@414,760 (!KThEOwLwbU)
*mountainpaedo

@414,763 (L)

if you're not then you are arguing just like him

congratulations

@414,754 (L)

> > > Not supporting same-sex marriage does not make you a homophobe.
> > okay, you gays aren't allowed these rights that straight people have
> Marriage is a bond between a man, a woman and God. Thanks.
Don't bring in imaginary characters, let's just focus on the facts. Thanks.

> > > The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
> > So it's okay to mindlessly ally with anybody as long as your goals roughly align?
> Yes. I am pretty sure that is the definition of an ally.
But not all allies come with such bad reputations... There is such a thing as picking your allies, and UKIP clearly have no qualms about picking overtly racist parties as allies.

> > > Key word: alleged.
> > More key words: "presented significant evidence in support".
> Innocent until proven guilty.
So you're just going to ignore the "significant evidence" part, aren't you?

> > > The main reason we are in such deep shit economically is because of people who do not work being allowed to vote. They will vote for Labour because Labour gives them free handouts. Labour will fuck up the economy and the welfare bill will sky-rocket. The Conservatives will rightly try to cut the welfare bill but Labour will spout shit like "same old tories", "eton posh boys", "wouldnt know price of milk", etc. and the benefit-claiming plebs will vote for Labour again like the fucking sheeps they are.
> > Sure, Labour can be dumb. But the main point there was the implications for those with disabilities. Maybe she just meant lazy people, but she really should have been clearer.
> Key word: presumably.
It shouldn't have been left to presumption at all.

> > > So what?
> > You're really not seeing the blatant discrimination against women? The "single" and "young" parts were bad enough, since that describes so many people, but the "free" part was downright chilling. And then the leader of the goddamn party comes and endorses all of that crap! How is that not evidence of them supporting discrimination?
> He was drunk. People say all kinds of shit when they are drunk.
Right, because when people are drunk they're unaccountable for all of their actions. And I don't think that one of alcohol's side-effects is to put seixst views into a person.

> > > Slander.
> > Nice counter-point, you gave real evidence of UKIP not holding those views and discredited a highly reliable source.
> There wasn't a point to counter.
Now you're just being lazy. A highly reliable source, a female MEP, spoke out against them. You can't just brush that away with "hurr slander".

> > > You can agree with someones political beliefs without agreeing with their actions.
> > You really don't see a problem with just arbitrarily associating with vaguely similar groups, do you? Okay, how do you think that people will view UKIP associating with these groups? What does it say about UKIP that they freely associate with these groups despite their distasteful statements? It says that they tolerate such views, for one.
> I think some leftist views are distasteful, that doesn't mean I think people shouldn't be able to express their political views. stop_liking_what_i_dont_like.png, etc.
Not related to what I said. UKIP has no problem allying with known racists, depsite their own claims of not being racist. This is a contradiction.


> > > Maybe Brits do fear immigrants. Maybe they fear that they take will take their jobs. Maybe they fear their taxes are being wasted on these immigrants' benefits. Maybe they fear white British people will soon be a minority.
> > Blind panic is not a good response. Yes it's an issue, one which should be addressed, but just yelling "AAAAAGH! BROWN PEOPLE! GET THEM AWAY" is not a reasoned response.
> Nobody mentioned brown people. Immigration involves people of all colour.
"AAAAAGH! FOREIGNERS!", then.

> > > It's tolerated by the party, even though the party had the brains to fire these people?
> > It shows that the party attracts lots of these people, which says something about them.
> It says that racist people will tend to support parties which want to impose limits on immigration, yes. Thank you, Captain Obvious.
Okay, so you admit that UKIP attracts racists, and is thus likely full of people holding racist views. Glad we finally agreed on this.