The problem with the trans issue is that most are pre op, and never have the surgery. So in effect they say that because they dress as women, people with penises are a danger to them. Though they have penises, because they wear dresses, means that they arent a danger to bio women. That really makes no sense.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 13 years ago, 8 seconds later, 17 minutes after the original post[^][v]#401,478
@401,473 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
Why not just call it a family restroom?
My local mall has a family restroom and it is actually pretty nice.
Although it's constructed weird where the sinks are out in the open and the toilets are in their own individual rooms.
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 13 years ago, 20 seconds later, 17 minutes after the original post[^][v]#401,479
@401,475 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
I cant remember the last time I heard of a female putting a hidden cam in a restroom.
squeegee joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 3 seconds later, 18 minutes after the original post[^][v]#401,480
@401,476 (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
Why? Why not have just unisex bathrooms? Works for port-o-potties.
squeegee double-posted this 13 years ago, 43 seconds later, 18 minutes after the original post[^][v]#401,482
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 13 years ago, 27 seconds later, 19 minutes after the original post[^][v]#401,483
@401,480 (squeegee)
Port o potties are all single rooms with no real sinks. If they could do that with no communal area, than it might work.
(Edited 10 seconds later.)
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 13 years ago, 1 minute later, 20 minutes after the original post[^][v]#401,484
If there were a unisex restroom, does this mean that cisgendered people will be allowed to use it if they so choose?
(Edited 10 seconds later.)
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 13 years ago, 45 seconds later, 21 minutes after the original post[^][v]#401,486
@previous (A)
Probably. They would also likely make that restroom the handicapped facility.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 13 years ago, 5 minutes later, 27 minutes after the original post[^][v]#401,490
@previous (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
So it'll be an all purpose use restroom?
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 13 years ago, 2 minutes later, 29 minutes after the original post[^][v]#401,492
@previous (A)
Probably, because family bathrooms tend to have more space for safety bars (for the handicapped) and changing tables for babies.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 13 years ago, 3 minutes later, 33 minutes after the original post[^][v]#401,494
@previous (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
Would there be a chance that people start using the family restrooms more than they would the gender biased restrooms?
I guess the old restrooms would still be used by women (or men) who have been victimized.
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 13 years ago, 3 minutes later, 36 minutes after the original post[^][v]#401,498
@previous (A)
There arent any gender biased bathrooms. Bathrooms are segregated by sex, and not gender. It would really depend on who started using the family restrooms first. If they were full of men, than women wouldnt use them.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 13 years ago, 1 minute later, 38 minutes after the original post[^][v]#401,499
@previous (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
Isn't that what those restrooms are called? I've heard them referred to as "gender biased restrooms".
And what about teenage girls who have a few male friends, like Ducky for instance?
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 13 years ago, 7 minutes later, 45 minutes after the original post[^][v]#401,503
@previous (A)
Trans activists might call them that but it isnt true. I'll explain why. A woman who doesnt follow typical gender roles (like wearing dresses and makeup) would still use the womens restrooms because its about sex, and not gender. As for what ducky would do, idk. But the majority of women would stay in the womens restrooms. Same with locker rooms. If the womens locker rooms filled up with nude males who claimed to be female on the inside, bio women would no longer use the facilities.
(Edited 7 minutes later.)
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 13 years ago, 4 minutes later, 49 minutes after the original post[^][v]#401,508
@previous (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
And for those few bio women who would. Does this mean they'd be singled out?
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 13 years ago, 2 minutes later, 52 minutes after the original post[^][v]#401,511
@previous (A)
Singled out in what way? No one would be stopping them from doing anything. How would it hurt them to use a unisex bathroom, or to shower with strange men, if that is their preference?
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 13 years ago, 58 seconds later, 53 minutes after the original post[^][v]#401,513
@401,477 (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
Their brains are structured in such a way that they feel that they are actually the opposite gender. They cannot help the way they feel.
Also, they're not all obnoxious idiots that think men might will rape them for dressing as women. Some just want to be able to live as the gender they feel that they are.
@401,478 (A)
What is a family restroom, exactly? I don't think we have those around here.
(Edited 18 seconds later.)
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 13 years ago, 3 minutes later, 56 minutes after the original post[^][v]#401,514
@previous (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
Women cannot help the way they feel either. Also, the biggest reason that trans activist push for this, is for their own safety. Look it up. You can live as your preferred gender, and still acknowledge the reality of biology. In fact,it would be refreshing to hear someone say that men can enjoy feminine trappings,and still be male.
(Edited 2 minutes later.)
kook !!32zdfdzi+ double-posted this 13 years ago, 1 minute later, 58 minutes after the original post[^][v]#401,516
@401,513 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
I actually think that we need to look at society, and figure out why males will hurt another male for dressing as a woman.
(Edited 2 minutes later.)
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 13 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#401,519
@401,513 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
My local family restroom is an open space which has sinks and mirrors in it where the toilets are in their own individual rooms.
I think there is also a room for women to breast feed their young.
(Edited 1 minute later.)
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 13 years ago, 18 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#401,526
@401,516 (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
Only violent, immoral men do that. They're the problem specifically, not all men. And the solution is educating them and showing them that trans people are just people like them, but slightly different. It's the same as getting people to accept other races or gays.
@401,514 (kook !!32zdfdzi+) > Women cannot help the way they feel either.
Uh, I didn't say that couldn't. Don't see what that has to do with GID.
> You can live as your preferred gender, and still acknowledge the reality of biology.
I think that they're all too aware of this. Again, they can't help that they feel they want to be the other gender. Yes, trying to get into bathrooms of the opposite gender is probably wrong, but we must keep in mind that they feel that way because of something they can't help.
> In fact,it would be refreshing to hear someone say that men can enjoy feminine trappings,and still be male.
Of course they can. Nobody said that they couldn't.
@previous (A)
That actually sounds like an ideal solution.
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 13 years ago, 4 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#401,530
@previous (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
But when we try and educate males regarding these specific problems, there's often times a vicious back lash. They hurt trans women not because they dont see them as inhuman, but because they see them as women, or acting as women.
Many trans people do not see the reality of biology, and consider it to be a non issue, as shown by all of the current problems we are having.
Society says that males shouldn't enjoy feminist trappings, we need to fix this as well.
kook !!32zdfdzi+ double-posted this 13 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#401,532
@401,526 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
A lot of this is caused by misogyny, and thats ironic because a surprising amount of transwomen are mra's that use misogynistic language against females when angered.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 13 years ago, 13 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#401,537
@401,530 (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
It's not even just men, actually. Women can be bigots too.
> there's often times a vicious back lash.
That doesn't mean you stop trying. There was vicious backlash when women campaigned for equal rights. Same with the blacks and the gays. Keep educating, keep encouraging tolerance and it'll have an effect.
> Many trans people do not see the reality of biology, and consider it to be a non issue, as shown by all of the current problems we are having.
Yes, this is a bad view. Gender identity is within the brain, but one shouldn't think that this defines gender all on it's own. Sadly, some of them have such a strong desire to be the other gender that they lose sight of this.
> Society says that males shouldn't enjoy feminist trappings, we need to fix this as well.
It does? What about, for example, male grooming products? Would the society of fifty years ago seen this as "manly"? I think we have seen improvement in this area. Granted it'll never be completely equal, but things've improved.
@previous (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
Again, the loud, obnoxious few are not representative of the whole. Most of the trans people I've seen, in educational films and such, have been reasonable people who knew what they were and just wanted to live as the opposite gender.
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 13 years ago, 3 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#401,540
@previous (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
I didnt say it was, but there we go. When ever we try and talk about these problems, the fingers point at someone else.
Male grooming products aside, its still an issue. Thats why men hurt other men for appearing to be women
People always say that its a loud small number, but in fact its many and oftentimes the public representatives of the trans women community.
(Edited 2 minutes later.)
kook !!32zdfdzi+ double-posted this 13 years ago, 3 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#401,541
@401,537 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
When the public representatives of the trans women community use the term fish, say that the word female is outdated, call women holes, make rape and death threats against cs women, than how can it be claimed that these people don't count?
beckyderp !CATLDyPIBQ joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 5 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#401,542
@401,537 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
What? You think it's a sign of progress that men feel they have to waste money on grooming products in order to feel normal, too? That's not exactly what feminists mean by equality.
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 13 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#401,543
@previous (beckyderp !CATLDyPIBQ)
lol I agree. I wish to break down the gender wall, but transwomen seem to want to vault over it, onto the other side. I believe that gender is a construct, and that sex matters.
beckyderp !CATLDyPIBQ replied with this 13 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#401,544
@previous (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
"hey, look at all these men with eating disorders! equal rights for all!"
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 13 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#401,545
@previous (beckyderp !CATLDyPIBQ)
lol The problem I have with this is that gender trappings are not biologically based, and pretending this to be true is very sexist. There is no part of the female brain that is wired for skirts and makeup.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 13 years ago, 4 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#401,546
@401,540 (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
You didn't say what was what? Sorry, I said a lot of stuff there so I'm not sure what you're referring to. It wasn't my intent to point fingers at something unrelated, either.
> Male grooming products aside, its still an issue. Thats why men hurt other men for appearing to be women
Right, so we educate them. It won't be easy, and it probably won't really work on close-minded fundie-types, but it'll help to some degree, at least.
> People always say that its a loud small number, but in fact its many and oftentimes the public representatives of the trans women community.
Honestly, I don't think that either of us could produce solid evidence like statistics to support our views. For sake of argument, shall we simply agree that lots reasonable trans people and lots obnoxious trans people exist? I'm not disputing that the ones you're referencing are deluded, by the way.
beckyderp !CATLDyPIBQ replied with this 13 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#401,547
@401,545 (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
It seems to me kind of fetish-like.
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 13 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#401,549
@401,546 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
How should we educate males? Do you ever talk to your male friends about their harmful attitudes against women?
What should be done about the deluded trans people who are trying to erase biology?
kook !!32zdfdzi+ double-posted this 13 years ago, 3 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#401,550
@401,547 (beckyderp !CATLDyPIBQ)
A lot of it is. Many transwomen are late in life transitioners, retain their penises, admit being aroused by dressing as women, and are attracted to females! Also, these same males don't ever want to date other transwomen, but only bio women, even though according to them, genitals don't matter. They call themselves lesbians, but then why when there are so few cis women lesbians, and so many transwomen lesbians? is it because they are straight males who like being feminine?
beckyderp !CATLDyPIBQ replied with this 13 years ago, 1 minute later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#401,551
@previous (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
Okay, I'm not really following this, but I appreciate the sentiment!
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 13 years ago, 13 seconds later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#401,552
@401,547 (beckyderp !CATLDyPIBQ)
Many also try to claim that they idea of using their penises for sex is triggering, and also tell cis women that saying words like uterus, and vulva trigger them as well. But when female rape victims say that penises trigger them, the transwomen claim that genitals cant be triggering. wtf?
kook !!32zdfdzi+ double-posted this 13 years ago, 3 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#401,554
@401,551 (beckyderp !CATLDyPIBQ)
I'll break it down
1. Many transwomen do not transition until late in life
2. Most keep their penises
3. Most admit to being aroused by dressing as a woman, or passing
4. Most are attracted to cis women.
5. Most will not date anyone with a penis, or other transwomen, but claim that genitals dont matter
6. There are a high number of transwomen who call themselves lesbians, possibly higher than the number of cis lesbians. Is that because transwomen are actually straight men who like feminine things?
beckyderp !CATLDyPIBQ replied with this 13 years ago, 1 minute later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#401,556
@previous (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
Oh. Do you think this applies to all transwomen?
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 13 years ago, 1 minute later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#401,558
@previous (beckyderp !CATLDyPIBQ)
No, but it applies for many. You also dont see transwomen who are attracted to other men, trying to push men into pretending that their penises are vaginas. Or coming up with terms like cotton ceiling.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 13 years ago, 1 minute later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#401,559
@401,554 (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
What is your opinion on transwomen and communities that actually give out advice on how to be a productive member of society?
> 3. Most admit to being aroused by dressing as a woman, or passing
I thought this was a transvestite and not a transgender person?
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 13 years ago, 35 seconds later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#401,560
@401,542 (beckyderp !CATLDyPIBQ)
Buspuppie said that society forbade men from enjoying feminine things, so I pointed to something that's popular today that might've been considered "feminine" in the past to illustrate that progress had been made.
@401,541 (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
I never said that they don't count. I'm saying that there's lots of trans people who aren't like that.
@401,543 (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
Gender is not entirely environmental construct. Just look at the trans people we've been discussing. Where is their desire to be women coming from? An abnormality in the brain. When this part of the brain is normal, a person identifies as their biological gender.
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 13 years ago, 1 minute later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#401,562
@401,559 (A)
That's what it used to be. But its the norm for many people that call themselves trans now. I'm okay with anyone seeking to be productive members of society. People can dress as they wish.
kook !!32zdfdzi+ double-posted this 13 years ago, 2 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#401,564
@401,560 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
I never said that society forbids it, just that society discourages it, and ts often peer enforced.
This desire could come from appreciating feminine trappings. Many trans people cite playing with dolls, and makeup as kids as evidence that they were born to be women. lol
I hated playing with dolls, and dresses. Was I born to be a male?
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 13 years ago, 1 minute later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#401,565
@401,549 (kook !!32zdfdzi+) > How should we educate males?
Just have the media an,d to some small degree, schools tell them that trans people shouldn't be discriminated against. Same as with any other anti-discrimination campaign. Also, promote reasonable activists.
> What should be done about the deluded trans people who are trying to erase biology?
Engage them in debate and keep presenting them with facts. They'll either have to acknowledge the facts or they'll come across as nutters
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 13 years ago, 1 minute later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#401,566
@previous (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
Do you debate with people irl? How do we change the media? Do you believe that hate against trans women is directly tied to hate against females? I do.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 13 years ago, 1 minute later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#401,567
Which restroom do intersexed people use?
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 13 years ago, 2 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#401,568
@previous (A)
Probably whichever the gender that they were raised, but most used private restrooms. Real intersexed people are few and far between, and hate being used by trans people to make a point. Look this up. In fact, many trans people pretend to be intersexed, and it infuriates people with this real condition. Please look into this.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 13 years ago, 9 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#401,573
@401,564 (kook !!32zdfdzi+) > This desire could come from appreciating feminine trappings. Many trans people cite playing with dolls, and makeup as kids as evidence that they were born to be women. lol
It might be better evidence than you give it credit for. I saw a video in college where a scientist analysed he movies and found that gay (and maybe children with GID too, don't recall) often prefered toys of the opposite gender. I think I may have just found it on my college intranet, but I can't play it from home, for some reason. I'll try to play it at college next time I'm there and post it.
> I hated playing with dolls, and dresses. Was I born to be a male?
I mean no offense in asking this, but you're gay or bi, right? It could be that your preference for toys was influenced by your biology. Gay/bi children often prefer the toys of the other gender. Again, not trying to cause offense with this, just mentioning some compelling research I saw.
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 13 years ago, 4 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#401,576
@previous (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
You wont offend me, I like talking about these things. But not liking those things didnt make me feel like a man, why is that? Also, many straights dont like those things either. I dont believe that a male can feel like a woman, because they dont know what women feel. Most of the time, they also dont act like women.
Do you ever talk to males friends about these issues?
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 13 years ago, 6 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#401,577
@401,566 (kook !!32zdfdzi+) > Do you debate with people irl?
No. Not really.
> How do we change the media?
Don't have to completely change what's there, just put out positive media. Documentaries, PSAs, research, positive portrayals of trans people. Stuff like that.
> Do you believe that hate against trans women is directly tied to hate against females? I do.
There's probably a link, in that the sans soft of people do it, so there's definitely a common root.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx double-posted this 13 years ago, 5 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#401,578
@401,576 (kook !!32zdfdzi+) > But not liking those things didnt make me feel like a man, why is that?
I think that the research suggests that while gay/bi brains are different, they don't have any issues with their gender identity. Basically, they might act slightly differently to how their gender is "supposed" to act, but still identify as their biological gender.
> Also, many straights dont like those things either.
True. I don't mean to sound like I'm saying that it's all determined by biology, the envriroment can have an influence too. Biology is not a catch-all.
> I dont believe that a male can feel like a woman, because they dont know what women feel.
You'd be surprised. Many people with GID report feeling that they "weren't the right gender" from an early age.
> Do you ever talk to males friends about these issues?
No.
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 13 years ago, 5 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#401,580
@401,577 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
How can we educate people about misogyny if men wont talk about it with each other?
kook !!32zdfdzi+ double-posted this 13 years ago, 4 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#401,581
@401,578 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
I do not believe in such a thing as biological gender. That implies that women, and men are born to follow fake gender norms. Most gender norms are social constructs.
kook !!32zdfdzi+ triple-posted this 13 years ago, 1 minute later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#401,582
@401,578 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
Also, many gay people (especially lesbians) have issues with gender identity. They feel like they are females, that have had the gender of woman forced onto them.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 13 years ago, 53 seconds later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#401,583
@401,580 (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
Some men might. I doubt it's something that comes up in everyday conversation, to be fair.
Just my experiences aren't exactly enough to make an assumption about all men, anyway, lol.
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 13 years ago, 2 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#401,584
@previous (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
Make an assumption? What? If you think that people need to be educated, than why dont you help with this? Should it be all on women to educate men?
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 13 years ago, 23 seconds later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#401,585
@401,581 (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
It's only an influence. Society is just as important in shaping a person's behaviour. In fact, I believe that it's important that we try to break down gender norms within society. But I can't ingore that their are also biological factors in play.
> Also, many gay people (especially lesbians) have issues with gender identity. They feel like they are females, that have had the gender of woman forced onto them.
Then they should be able to identify however they want.
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 13 years ago, 2 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#401,586
You've said that we should try and educate men on misogyny, even if the reaction is negative, and violent. Why dont you do this?
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 13 years ago, 34 seconds later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#401,587
@401,584 (kook !!32zdfdzi+) > than why dont you help with this?
Because I'm not all that social IRL. :P
I'm just saying that I'm only one guy. You can't extrapolate all that much from me.
> Should it be all on women to educate men?
No. I didn't say that at all.
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 13 years ago, 2 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#401,588
@previous (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
Every person is just one guy! Do you even try and educate other males online?
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 13 years ago, 8 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#401,590
@previous (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
You asked me if I debate this with guys IRL. When I said no, you then said that this was an issue for men in general in @401,580 (kook !!32zdfdzi+) , as if my answer was valid for all men.
> Do you even try and educate other males online?
Not particularly. Don't really go to many other forums.
I'm not even sure what point you're making here. Because I support something but am not actively and activist for it, my support isn't valid? You're against Catholics going to Africa and spreading their stupidity, is your support any less valid because you haven't gone to Africa to advocate reason? Personal mannerisms don't invalidate views.
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 13 years ago, 3 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#401,592
@previous (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
Do you call out misogyny when you see it on these boards? What if everyone else were to feel the same way as you? Because you've said that a violent reaction shouldnt stop people from trying, when you do not try at all. Not attacking you, but this is very common.
Anonymous G joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 3 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#401,594
@OP
This sounds great. It's a shame Britain is so fucking liberal. I would've like to have seen this implemented here.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 13 years ago, 7 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#401,595
@401,592 (kook !!32zdfdzi+) > Do you call out misogyny when you see it on these boards?
Usually, yeah.
> Because you've said that a violent reaction shouldnt stop people from trying
Obviously if there's a risk of violence, then it's best not to debate these people face to face. I was talking more about things like media campaigns and such, anyway. Trying to nudge society as a while instead of individuals.
> when you do not try at all.
Having these views doesn't mean I'm obligated to go out and loudly champion them. Lots of people are, though, so it's okay.
> but this is very common.
Some people just aren't into that stuff, and that's fine. But look on the bright side, lots of misogynists must be the same way.
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 13 years ago, 9 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#401,604
@previous (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
There is no bright side. From what I've seen, men dont want to listen about these things when its women who are trying to talk to them about it.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 13 years ago, 22 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^][v]#401,616
@previous (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
From what you've seen. Your personal experiences aren't enough to make such a large generalisation.
I'd say that most of the men I've met were easygoing, reasonable people who wouldn't have minded discussing such issues, but I wouldn't say that all men are like that.
kook !!32zdfdzi+ replied with this 13 years ago, 1 minute later, 4 hours after the original post[^][v]#401,617
@previous (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
How do you know the manner in which they would react if you never tried?
I do actually try.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 13 years ago, 17 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^][v]#401,622
@previous (kook !!32zdfdzi+)
The point I was making was that you can't generalise based on personal experience. I've made that judgement of men I've met, but I wouldn't generalise that to an entire gender.