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Anonymous C joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 1 hour later[^][v]#400,330
No. Transwomen were still raised under the patriarchy with male privilege. In some countries, when women have to urinate in front of males, its actually considered to be a human rights violation, because of the shame, and the risk of attack. Please look it up.
Meta !PARAdoxiHw (OP) replied with this 13 years ago, 7 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#400,331
@previous (C)
I wasn't meaning transwomen in particular, but the idea of women who want to separate themselves from all men -- cis and otherwise.
I also tried Googling "women having to urinate in front of men" and "countries where women have to urinate in front of men" and several variations thereof, but could find nothing relevant :/ Also tried "women urinating in front of men human rights violation" with no (relevant) results.
(Edited 3 minutes later.)
Anonymous C replied with this 13 years ago, 19 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#400,334
Transwomen are men. I can understand that they would want to separate themselves from men, because men are raised to take everything, to be violent, and to sexualize everything. Why do you think that womens colleges exist btw? Oh,I forgot to mention, there is a 45 years old transwoman (straight men) who is trying to get into a young womens college, and the women don't want that to happen. I'll find you links to the bathroom thing, because there are several charities trying to provide women with safe places to pee. Which is sad that its even an issue.
We have not fixed the problems in society that make men a threat (the overwhelming majority of stranger crime is done by men) and we shouldn't expect women to put themselves in alarm, and danger, because a straight male has gender dysphoria.
One last thing. Any time that someone says that womanhood is about makeup and dresses, its always a male. Every time.
Meta !PARAdoxiHw (OP) replied with this 13 years ago, 29 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#400,341
> Transwomen are men. I can understand that they would want to separate themselves from men, because men are raised to take everything, to be violent, and to sexualize everything.
This is getting cartoonish now. All men think this way? Even Andrea Dworkin's husband? > Why do you think that womens colleges exist btw?
The same reason black colleges do; historic discrimination against them at mainstream colleges. Women now have higher college enrollment and higher college graduation rates at mainstream colleges, so it would seem that academic discrimination has diminished considerably. > Oh,I forgot to mention, there is a 45 years old transwoman (straight men) who is trying to get into a young womens college, and the women don't want that to happen.
If the college is private then they have to right to exclude whoever. > I'll find you links to the bathroom thing, because there are several charities trying to provide women with safe places to pee. Which is sad that its even an issue.
I thought most public places had women's restrooms now? > We have not fixed the problems in society that make men a threat (the overwhelming majority of stranger crime is done by men) and we shouldn't expect women to put themselves in alarm, and danger, because a straight male has gender dysphoria.
And what is feminism doing to solve this? > One last thing. Any time that someone says that womanhood is about makeup and dresses, its always a male. Every time.
What is it really about, then?
Anonymous C replied with this 13 years ago, 8 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#400,343
@previous (Meta !PARAdoxiHw)
A question, how can you tell a violent male from any other male?
Women have been discriminated in from universities in the past, correct? Why have we ever had sex segregated dorms?
In many countries their are no public restrooms
Feminists is working to break down gender roles, and trying to help our violent culture.
Do you really think that womanhood is about makeup? Really? I've addressed this several times. If you were to take a female, wipe off the makeup, would she still be a woman? You should really ask women in your life about this.
Meta !PARAdoxiHw (OP) replied with this 13 years ago, 7 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#400,345
@previous (C) > A question, how can you tell a violent male from any other male?
Because they have a history of acting violent. > Women have been discriminated in from universities in the past, correct?
This is true. I do not think though, based on admissions, graduation rates, and grades that it is the case today to any significant degree. > Why have we ever had sex segregated dorms?
Outdated puritan ideas about how men and women should be kept separate (this is my conjecture: I'm no expert on the history of dormitories). > In many countries their are no public restrooms
Well, of course not every society is going to be at the same level as the western world. Outside of the Western world, women do usually have it pretty bad (like in the Muslim world). > Feminists is working to break down gender roles, and trying to help our violent culture.
But how? It's done a lot to break down gender roles for women, but it doesn't seem to have done much to break down men's gender roles. > Do you really think that womanhood is about makeup? Really? I've addressed this several times. If you were to take a female, wipe off the makeup, would she still be a woman? You should really ask women in your life about this.
I didn't say that. I'm simply saying that as a cis man I don't know what being a woman is about.
What is being a man about?
(Edited 1 minute later.)
Anonymous C replied with this 13 years ago, 15 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#400,357
@previous (Meta !PARAdoxiHw)
So you cannot tell a violent male unless you have seen him be violent correct? What if he makes threats online? Should that be a good indicator?
So women who want to dorm alone, are just doing it for puritan ideals, and never safety reason?
Is it the job of feminism to break down gender roles for men? Feminists definitely say that men should be able to be stay at home dads.
How would I know what being a man is about? But if someone were to take you, and slather you with rouge, would you suddenly be a woman?
!KThEOwLwbU joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 51 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#400,391
I prefer my girlfriend without makeup. She likes to wear it though because it makes her feel prettier so I don't tell her. She still looks pretty with makeup on :3
Anonymous C replied with this 13 years ago, 4 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#400,397
@previous (!KThEOwLwbU)
Good for you! She's very pretty, with shiny hair. But without it, she's still a woman, right?
Meta !PARAdoxiHw (OP) replied with this 13 years ago, 4 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#400,398
@400,357 (C) > So you cannot tell a violent male unless you have seen him be violent correct?
I'm saying that you should judge each person individually. If you know someone has a history of violence, then yes, by all means be afraid. But it would be a logical fallacy to be afraid of all men. > What if he makes threats online? Should that be a good indicator?
Depends on the threats, but not always a good indicator. It's easy to play internet tough guy. Pic related. > So women who want to dorm alone, are just doing it for puritan ideals, and never safety reason?
Women do it for both, I'm sure. > Is it the job of feminism to break down gender roles for men? Feminists definitely say that men should be able to be stay at home dads.
Because the patriarchy is too broken to fix itself. > How would I know what being a man is about? But if someone were to take you, and slather you with rouge, would you suddenly be a woman?
What do you, personally, see being a man as?
!KThEOwLwbU replied with this 13 years ago, 3 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#400,399
Oh yes, she'd still be a woman even if she shaved her hair or had a face tattoo or anything really. I'm not really sure what it actually is that provides her "womanhood" (which I wish I could because I like to know things but I agree with you that my being a man probably excludes me from being able to) but I can see the results of it and I like them a lot so hey.
Anonymous C replied with this 13 years ago, 1 minute later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#400,400
@400,398 (Meta !PARAdoxiHw)
I see men as males with shared experiences as men, with male bodies, and how society treats them as men. How people relate to them, how media treats them, how their boyhoods are shaped by puberty, and erections, and sex drive, and also what society expects from them as men.
Wait if the patriarchy was created by men, and used to hurt men and women, how do you expect only women to fix it?
(Edited 32 seconds later.)
Anonymous C double-posted this 13 years ago, 48 seconds later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#400,402
@400,399 (!KThEOwLwbU)
You should ask her about this sometime.
Meta !PARAdoxiHw (OP) replied with this 13 years ago, 4 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#400,404
@400,400 (C)
If men created something as dysfunctional and broken as the patriarchy, do you seriously expect us to be able to fix it? That would be like asking Mitt Romney to solve income inequality in America.
Anonymous C replied with this 13 years ago, 6 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^][v]#400,411
@previous (Meta !PARAdoxiHw)
Men have to help with this, right?
Anonymous E joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 26 seconds later, 4 hours after the original post[^][v]#400,412
@400,399 (!KThEOwLwbU) > I'm not really sure what it actually is that provides her "womanhood"
At the most fundamental level, her two X chromosomes. Also the genitals and brain structure. But then, that depends on how you're defining "womanhood".
Meta !PARAdoxiHw (OP) replied with this 13 years ago, 10 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^][v]#400,419
@400,411 (C)
Well, yeah. What should I do to get started?
!KThEOwLwbU replied with this 13 years ago, 15 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^][v]#400,432
She says that it's a maternal instinct, her physical womanly features, and certain aspects of her maturity that places her in a woman's perspective rather than a girls. I replied that I would have thought of those as products of womanhood rather than the causes of womanhood and asked her if I'm in the right mode of thinking and she said that was a good point and she'll think on it some more.
Anonymous C replied with this 13 years ago, 3 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^][v]#400,437
@400,419 (Meta !PARAdoxiHw)
How do you get started? talk to your male friends on this, and call out hate against women when you see it. Even online.
Anonymous C double-posted this 13 years ago, 23 seconds later, 4 hours after the original post[^][v]#400,438
@400,432 (!KThEOwLwbU)
Like her reproductive system?
Meta !PARAdoxiHw (OP) replied with this 13 years ago, 2 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^][v]#400,442
@400,437 (C)
But what if my male friends don't rape or commit violence, should I still talk with them about it? And okay to the online part!
!KThEOwLwbU replied with this 13 years ago, 21 seconds later, 4 hours after the original post[^][v]#400,443
> I guess I view womanhood as being somewhat naturistic, something that comes from deep within our core. For generations, woman has cared for her children because it is necessary for our survival of the species. As time has progressed, womanly features are just expressions of our ability to take care of children. Men are attracted to features that make a woman "womanly" because it's just in their nature.
Anonymous C replied with this 13 years ago, 8 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^][v]#400,451
@400,442 (Meta !PARAdoxiHw)
You should still talk to them about it, because they may know others who do those things, or who are misogynists. Also, you should never shame other men for having perceived weaknesses, or acting outside of their gender norms.
Anonymous C double-posted this 13 years ago, 32 seconds later, 4 hours after the original post[^][v]#400,453
@400,443 (!KThEOwLwbU)
You should also ask her if a man becomes a woman, when you cut off his penis.
!KThEOwLwbU replied with this 13 years ago, 51 seconds later, 4 hours after the original post[^][v]#400,454