Icarus !!fxtF/31b/ replied with this 13 years ago, 46 seconds later, 2 minutes after the original post[^][v]#399,970
Plotting implies intent
Loser !Of.eOO4wF6 joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 7 seconds later, 2 minutes after the original post[^][v]#399,971
Laws are useless in the inner sanctums of my mind.
Meta !PARAdoxiHw joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 9 minutes later, 12 minutes after the original post[^][v]#399,974
No. Making a credible threat should be illegal, but just drawing up a plan should be perfectly legal.
Anonymous E joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 1 minute later, 13 minutes after the original post[^][v]#399,975
@previous (Meta !PARAdoxiHw)
I'm glad you feel that way, Meta...
Anonymous F joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 1 minute later, 15 minutes after the original post[^][v]#399,977
Yes. Thats why botched kidnappings, and assassinations are illegal. If they know someone is going to pull a school shooting, should they just let it happen?
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 13 years ago, 5 seconds later, 15 minutes after the original post[^][v]#399,978
@399,975 (E)
Drawing up plans to kill people is a perfectly acceptable way to pass the time, much like needlecraft or origami.
Anonymous F replied with this 13 years ago, 1 minute later, 16 minutes after the original post[^][v]#399,979
@399,974 (Meta !PARAdoxiHw)
Does this count as a credible threat?
The student behind a foiled attack plot at a Florida university was working off a checklist that included plans to get drunk, pull a fire alarm and then "give them hell," authorities said Tuesday.
James Oliver Seevakumaran was crossing items off his list ahead of his planned attack his classmates with guns and homemade explosives, University of Central Florida Police Chief Richard Beary said at a news conference.
The list found along with his dead body early Monday included drinking at a bar near campus and pulling the fire alarm - which investigators believe was meant to flush out victims. Beary says the final item was "give them hell."
Instead, Seevakumaran shot and killed himself as police officers arrived in response to the fire alarm and a 911 call from a roommate. Beary says authorities confirmed he went to the bar and drank.
At the time of the attack, packages were waiting for Seevakumaran at a campus mailroom containing two 22-round magazines and a sling for his rifle and a firearms training DVD.
(Edited 16 seconds later.)
squeegee !first/o5zA joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 51 seconds later, 17 minutes after the original post[^][v]#399,981
i think that it was probably the acquisition of firearms and explosives that bumped it up to plot from plan
Anonymous F replied with this 13 years ago, 1 minute later, 19 minutes after the original post[^][v]#399,982
On Tuesday, police tape and squad cars were gone outside the dormitory where police say the Seevakumaran had armed himself early Monday with two guns, hundreds of rounds of ammunition, a backpack filled with explosives.
Seevakumaran's plans were thrown off by campus police officers' quick response to the fire alarm and a 911 call from his roommate, who hid after Seevakumaran pointed a gun at him, UCF Police Chief Richard Beary said.
Roommate Arabo Babakhani, 24, said he ran into his room and slammed the door on his roommate after seeing the gun and hid behind furniture before calling 911.
doctor law md !jdTkvovFCQ joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 6 minutes later, 26 minutes after the original post[^][v]#399,984
Yes, it depends on what defines a plan though. If it's like a 12 year old saying on twitter that they are going to kill their teacher that probably shouldn't be taken seriously (all though there are probably exceptions) but if there are written and relatively elaborate plans found then that person should be persecuted i say
doctor law md !jdTkvovFCQ double-posted this 13 years ago, 1 minute later, 28 minutes after the original post[^][v]#399,988
Anonymous E replied with this 13 years ago, 17 seconds later, 28 minutes after the original post[^][v]#399,989
@399,978 (A)
It is. And again, I am glad that Meta feels this way. I wouldn't want him to object and contact any authorities over some idle passtime he didn't like.
Anonymous E double-posted this 13 years ago, 46 seconds later, 29 minutes after the original post[^][v]#399,991
@399,988 (doctor law md !jdTkvovFCQ)
but the school shootings the school shootigns people the school shootings
Meta !PARAdoxiHw replied with this 13 years ago, 59 seconds later, 30 minutes after the original post[^][v]#399,992
@399,975 (E) @399,983 (F)
Should it be legal for someone to map out in their head, in detail, how to shoot up a college? Why or why not?
(Edited 21 seconds later.)
Meta !PARAdoxiHw double-posted this 13 years ago, 4 minutes later, 34 minutes after the original post[^][v]#399,993
@399,979 (F)
What does "give them hell" mean? He never specifically said he was going to kill, did he?
doctor law md !jdTkvovFCQ replied with this 13 years ago, 2 minutes later, 36 minutes after the original post[^][v]#399,994
@399,992 (Meta !PARAdoxiHw)
i think it depends a lot on the mental condition of the person but in general, probably not
Meta !PARAdoxiHw replied with this 13 years ago, 3 minutes later, 39 minutes after the original post[^][v]#399,995
@previous (doctor law md !jdTkvovFCQ)
Well then we've moved into the realm of thoughtcrime. Welcome to Minority Report/1984.
Syntax joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 13 seconds later, 40 minutes after the original post[^][v]#399,996
Convicted for planning
IF ITS DINNER TYME READ THIS LATER OR add Fava beans to meal.
'Cannibal cop' Gilberto Valle found guilty of plot to kidnap, rape, kill and eat his wife and other women
The New York City police officer known as the “Cannibal Cop†has been found guilty of plotting to kidnap, rape, kill and eat dozens of women, including his wife.
Gilberto Valle, 28, was part of a disturbingly large online community which exchanges and encourages cannibalism fantasies. Judge Paul Gardephe described the graphic evidence seen in a grisly trial as "[degrading to] the human spirit".
The federal jury also found Valle guilty on a lesser charge of improperly accessing a law enforcement database, after he used NYPD resources to gather information about a series of potential victims. Valle had searched the internet for advice on rendering people unconscious with chloroform, and tying them with ropes. Yet his defence attorney, Julia Gatto, argued that none of the conspirators had ever actually met, let alone committed any of the crimes they outlined.
The jury's decision rested on whether Valle planned to carry out the crimes he discussed online, or whether they were merely sick fantasies. Prosecutors claimed he behaved in a way that suggested he had crossed the line from fantasy to reality. Ms Gatto, who plans to appeal, said after the verdict: "This is a dangerous prosecution when we start opening up our minds and prosecuting what's inside our brains and not in the real world."
The prosecution's star witness was Valle's estranged wife, Kathleen Mangan, 27, who revealed how she'd discovered detailed plans on his laptop to torture and kill women, including herself and some of her friends.
"I was going to be tied up by my feet and my throat slit, and they would have fun watching the blood gush out of me," she told the court. She reported her husband to the FBI before fleeing to her parents' home in Nevada with the couple's young daughter.
Valle was a regular visitor to DarkFetishNet.com, a website with 38,000 members, who share and discuss vast amounts of shocking and sexually violent material, most of which is staged. Its creator, Russian web entrepreneur Sergay Merenkov, compared the site to Facebook in a videotaped deposition.
Valle's mother, Elizabeth, said she was "in shock" following the verdict. Her son will be sentenced on 19 June. He faces up to life in prison.
Anonymous E replied with this 13 years ago, 18 seconds later, 42 minutes after the original post[^][v]#399,999
@399,992 (Meta !PARAdoxiHw)
look man i am implying that im making a plan to kill you
be afraid
Meta !PARAdoxiHw replied with this 13 years ago, 1 minute later, 44 minutes after the original post[^][v]#400,001
@399,998 (doctor law md !jdTkvovFCQ)
But I asked if it should be legal to map out in your head how to kill people. "Probably not", as an answer, would seem to indicate disagreement with the premise. @previous (E)
D:
doctor law md !jdTkvovFCQ replied with this 13 years ago, 29 seconds later, 44 minutes after the original post[^][v]#400,002
@399,995 (Meta !PARAdoxiHw)
also how can you possibly make a detailed plan of a shooting without some actual research of the building?
Meta !PARAdoxiHw replied with this 13 years ago, 1 minute later, 46 minutes after the original post[^][v]#400,005
@previous (doctor law md !jdTkvovFCQ)
Research would not be necessary if you were already familiar with a building, like your school or your workplace.
Anonymous F replied with this 13 years ago, 36 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#400,035
@399,992 (Meta !PARAdoxiHw)
This didnt happen in his head. He made plans, and bought weapons, and explosives.
Anonymous F double-posted this 13 years ago, 47 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#400,037
@399,996 (Syntax)
He used his cop data base to look up the addresses of victims, and made plans with another man to kidnap people for money.
Anonymous F triple-posted this 13 years ago, 28 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#400,039
@399,988 (doctor law md !jdTkvovFCQ)
What does this mean?
Anonymous F quadruple-posted this 13 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#400,040
This guy killed himself before he could accomplish anything. If he had been successful after people found his plans,and stash of weapons, most of you would have blamed law enforcement for not stopping it.
Meta !PARAdoxiHw replied with this 13 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#400,050
@400,035 (F)
My point was, what's the difference between making a murder plan in your head, and putting it onto paper? Let's say a crazy man wants to kill X. He thinks about it obsessively 16 hours a day, he dreams about it, he's mapped out the perfect way to kill X on their way home from work, etc. Now, let's say that person puts down their thoughts on paper or Facebook. Why does it become a crime then, and not when they were thinking about it?
Anonymous F replied with this 13 years ago, 4 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#400,059
@previous (Meta !PARAdoxiHw)
The difference came from him buying weapons, and explosives, and then beginning to follow his plan. He wrote that he would get drunk, and then pull the fire alarm before shooting. He did both before the police showed up. So he had started to put his plan into action.
Anonymous F double-posted this 13 years ago, 23 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#400,060
@400,050 (Meta !PARAdoxiHw)
Also, one cannot read minds.
doctor law md !jdTkvovFCQ replied with this 13 years ago, 18 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#400,095
@400,001 (Meta !PARAdoxiHw)
Oh sorry I read it as illegal lol
Anonymous J joined in and replied with this 13 years ago, 18 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#400,134
I foresee mountainman will make quality contributions to this thread.
Anonymous D replied with this 13 years ago, 1 hour later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#400,194
@400,059 (F)
Well I guess we should be thankful he shot himself. But seriously, getting drunk before killing? That can't be good for aim.
Anonymous F replied with this 13 years ago, 9 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^][v]#400,208
@previous (D)
lol It is good that the cops spooked him.
doctor law md !jdTkvovFCQ replied with this 13 years ago, 19 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^][v]#400,230