Minichan

Sorry, man. Sounds like a toxic environment. Hope your job search turns up something.

saw your facebook status about this. :P

@OP

> My employer pays me pretty well. Not as well as they should, but better than any other offer I can find in this economy. There are people in the same building who make a lot more than me to do less work, but I don't let that get to me. I just focus on my slice of the pie. It's particularly frustrating when I have to train someone who makes at least twice what I make. I could just sit back and say "Nope, not my job to train people above me" but I'm a team player and not a dick like that. I really bust my ass to set myself apart and move up, but nothing goes anywhere. It's all seniority and cronyism.
>
> They cut everyone's hours down to 25, pulling their livelihood right out from underneath them. When times are slow you have to cut, but things aren't slow. So they crack the whip that much more trying to squeeze as much work out of every last person. At the end of the day, everyone is tired, hungry, and miserable from working their asses off. Which would be fine, of course stuff is not getting done. You cut 500 hours out of an already miserly schedule and get a typical busy Sunday and shit's going down. Yesterday I left 2 pages of notes of stuff that needed to get done, 2 guys called out and nothing got done. I'm there by myself to run the department. I'm busting my ass, popping amphetamines and 5-hour energies to keep going trying to fix all the problems in the department while also helping customers and all that shit. So I'm killing myself for less pay. But they still bitch that nothing is getting done. Then they nag me for other stuff. Help at refunds, help with furniture, help as mattresses, help at the jewelry counter for half an hour. Then some prick manager who doesn't even know what I do has me pack groceries on the front end, while nothing is getting done in my department. That's fine too, not my problem. Then some other boss wants to know why it's such a mess.
>
> I will be the damn work horse. I will do everything that needs to get done and then some, and I need no supervision. I know what needs to get done. I'll work 50 hours a week and won't complain about being underpaid or the long hours or anything. I'll take the abuse and the yelling about what's not done because if I've got time to fix shit, I'll fix shit. But they want to cut my livelihood out from underneath me, tell me I need to work twice as hard to make up for their pay cuts, get drilled about stuff not getting done, want to have a nervous breakdown, and then I'm told our work doesn't cut it because nothing is getting done. Perfect formula for fucking snapping. I'll do the fucking work you need me to do, if you'll just give me the time to do it and pay me for my work. Nope, they'd rather bitch.
>
> I've seen their sales numbers, and they make enough PROFIT (not revenue, PROFIT, and only on items I'm selling) even in a slow month, to pay for my entire annual income. I'm their main sales guy. They tell me all the time I'm the best, which feels good, but they won't put their money where their mouth is. I really don't even care that I'm being exploited. Just exploit me 40 hours a week so I can make decent money, they'll probably make more money just because I'm there more and all the problems around the department are solved. They shoot themselves in the foot and then turn the gun on me.
>
> Everything is a mess and they'll try to blame me. Something isn't done, they accuse me of being lazy, when really I'm just too busy and burnt out to get to their little side projects. They essentially forced me into a week vacation to cut down on hours even further. If I go back and it's right back to bitching about how the store couldn't run itself while I was gone and now I need to fix everything but have to do it all in 5 hours, I'm going to fucking snap. I basically do the work of 3 supervisors for half the pay and get no recognition, pay or otherwise. Screamed in my car the whole way home.
>
> Looked for other jobs but in this market I'm lucky to find anyone who wants to pay me 2/3 what I'm making now and I still can't even land those jobs. So I'm stuck sucking it up and hoping I don't snap on somebody.

Damn just damn.

As long as you keep on looking at outside opportunities just do as you are doing. Do the best you can and if you can select the one manager in that place who will take a moment to listen to you.

Several times I was given the word that I could complain about the person I reported to, because other managers were aware my supervisor was problem. My mistake was NOT reporting. I did this several times over the years. Watched those assholes get promoted to do even more harm.

Anyway you are working hard which is all you can do to survive. You have direct contact with customers - Keep your ears and eyes open for someone who is a manager elsewhere and could put in a good word for you or even hire you. I had a neighbor who pumped gas for a living and was was a super people person. A customer decided to make him an offer so he ended up making a lot more money and enjoyed his work.

@392,562 (Falco !a7Q.SWNEJw)
> dox, harassment

@392,586 (Syntax)
Networking is certainly important. All the jobs on the internet and through staffing agencies are they're either because they're really shitty jobs, really hard positions to fill, or they're being way too picky or offer way too little compensation and then wonder why they can't get anyone to bite.

Most of the jobs online are that last one. There are employers out there who want someone with a degree plus several years experience but then want to pay $13/hour tops. That's great for entry-level college grad, but then you don't get to ask for several years experience. They think they can use the soft job market to low-ball people to death.

So anyway, you're right and I have been networking and putting bugs in people's ears to find work somewhere else. In the mean time I just try to stay positive. Rants like this make me sound like I think I'm a martyr and are unappealing to potential employers but I had to vent.

Get over it.

It's your fault @OP I wont sweet talk this and tell you "chin up, it'll get better" cause if you continue like this, guess what? I'll continue being like this.

"The current economy" are just excuses to not take action. As you said, the company is making your annual salary in a month. And how are they doing it? Exploiting you.

Set up a huge fuck up that'll drive customers away and tell em what will happen if thisngs dont change.

It's not black mailing, it's just the game they are playing and you gotta beat them in it. Now stop being a spineless slave and fight back, cause from what I read in your post, your life is going bananas cause of your horrible work conditions. Change it.

@previous (TheSheep !kJ.A4PF7.k)
> if i fuck up the company and cost them a lot of money then they'll want to keep me
are you retarded?

@392,632 (TheSheep !kJ.A4PF7.k)
Yeah, doing that will get you fired at worst, and shows a complete lack of maturity at best.

Regarding the comments about the current economy, I wasn't saying that the bad economy is the reason they pay me less. I was saying that if the economy were better I would be able to find a better job (or even an equal or slightly lower paying job with a less hostile environment) and simply quit. Politely and quietly quitting is the most mature way of letting an employer know that you've had enough, especially after they won't listen to you, or listen to you but refuse to change. The shitty job market makes this option hard to come by, however. Employers know this and use it to there advantage. In better job markets, they know they have to treat people better or risk losing their best talent.

The best thing to do right now is suck it up so when the job market improves I at least have a solid employment history and good references. You don't want to piss off an employer and lose good references. I still have every right to be angry. You're right about exploitation.

@392,635 (H)
No but you sure are.

You set up a huge fuck up that'll cost them money, with the company having no control over it. Only you can stop it.

It's called "having leverage". I've not only done it once, but several times. What, in your opinion, makes your boss eligible to bully you around and make you work like a slave, threatening you with "it's the economy, work harder or I'll fire you and fin someone who'll work harder" but on the other side, it's bad to grey mail him (black mailing sounds bad). I'd understand if the company had miserable profit, but according to @OP they are doing good even in those times. So why not get your fair share of the profit?

You're a spineless squid, enjoy your slavery.

@392,639 (A)
> The best thing to do right now is suck it up so when the job market improves

It'll only get worse if you suck it up. But oh well... what do I know... I'm just an immature prick who doesn't let others treat him like shit.
Yeah, I'm weird as hell and a complete nutjob. You on the other hand, are doing everything right. Keep up the good work.

@previous (TheSheep !kJ.A4PF7.k)
There are ways to stand up for yourself and improve your situation without blackmail. I agree with your views on exploitation and that people will walk all over you if you let them. Sabotaging a business in an attempt to get your way is the equivalent of throwing a tantrum.

Worst case scenario I leave quietly and take a lower paying job and as a result we both suffer. If I feel that I can't take it anymore and the mistreatment outweighs the benefits, I don't have to work there. There is such a thing as quiet dignity.

@392,640 (TheSheep !kJ.A4PF7.k)
Ah yes, the "hurt my employer to get more money" stratagem. A classic. If you don't see the genius in this, then you are clearly an idiot!

@previous (E)
Well it works on you knucklehead. "Ooooh let's hurt my employees so I keep even more profit to myself... I'll blame the economy..."

@392,650 (E)
At best you get what you want temporarily but hurt yourself in the long run and create an even more toxic work environment by raising tension in your employment relationship. At worst you get arrested or sued for blackmail and/or intentionally causing harm to your company.

I believe in civil disobedience. If I were to take TheSheep's advice, I would simply stop working as much as possible and do the minimum amount necessary. Essentially hold out on them until they are willing to give some concessions. I wouldn't do anything to cause direct harm. There are several reasons why I don't do this already. It would would hurt the employment relationship, it could be used against me as a reason to not promote me or give me more hours, and it can hurt future employment potential as it can pretty much destroy my references. Anyone who calls them will have to hear the story.

Even if I don't agree with TheSheep, he's given me quite a lot to think about. The discourse has helped put things into perspective, even if he is being silly by calling anyone who disagrees with him a retarded slave.

@392,651 (TheSheep !kJ.A4PF7.k)
No, I was being serious.

Hey, I was going to ask my boss for a raise later this week. Would setting fire to his office help?

@previous (A)
There's probably milder ways to do what he's essentially saying. Maybe complain a lot? Is there some sort of third party you could go to anonymously?

(Edited 1 minute later.)

@392,651 (TheSheep !kJ.A4PF7.k)
Every company does this. I don't hate them for it. People are rarely ever paid what they are really worth. If they were it would be impossible for companies to make money. I know that if I were a business owner I would do everything I could to maximize profits. I'd probably try to be a little more compassionate and share profits, as well as pay living wages and stay competitive, but hey, maybe that's why I'm not a business owner. It's a cut-throat world.

If you reread my original post, I'm not mad at the fact that I'm being exploited. I'm willing to gloss over that. I'm mad because they talk about both sides of their mouths. My sister works for a staffing agency and called them for references, essentially posing as a potential employer. They didn't know it was my sister and that she was going to tell me everything they said. They have nothing but good things to say about me. They compliment me on my knowledge and customer service. They come to me when they need help with anything. They depend on me as a senior employee, but then as soon as I'd like to be rewarded for my extra efforts, suddenly the tune changes and nothing is good enough.

I'm not even asking for more money. A simple pat on the back would be nice. Recognition for more efforts is more important to me than compensation. If they can't give me more hours to get more work done, fine. All I'm asking is that I'm not criticized, nagged, and yelled at for things not getting done. If they're going to exploit me, fine, but don't pretend like I'm not being exploited and that I owe you even more for nothing in return. And they can't say that they're not exploiting me and that they actually believe I owe them something when they talk about both sides of their mouths. Do you see what I'm saying?

(Edited 29 seconds later.)

@392,652 (A)
I got called a retard first, I just continued playing the game. But I did call you a spineless slave cause you're acting like one.

First thing, if you follow my advice and you do get arrested/sued for blackmailing you're doing it wrong. Make it so that if you're getting sued you'll pull your boss down with you. Believe me, everyone has dead bodies in their backyard, chances are your boss didn't even do the effort to dig holes and burry them. Shouldn't be hard to find them.

Also, I'd rather have my sanity for the next job interview (which you're slowly loosing) than another "good reference". Oh and, for example, if they call the warehouse I worked at, the last thing they will hear will be "Yeah, TheSheep is on crazy guy, he threatened to publicise how we repack food whose 'best before' date expired..."
I list all my ex employers as references, and never had bad experience with them, even tho some of the shit I did was pretty radical.

But sure, continue like this for a few months and then start a new thread to show us how things changed... for the better :)

@392,650 (E)
My dad knew a guy who decided to make a video of himself putting needles into the soda bottles at his work (a bottling place). He thought for sure they'd give him millions of dollars to keep quiet after he gave them the video.

@392,654 (A)
Try to get your hands on some financial reports and you'll notice that the smallest number under the "expenses" column will be human resources.

Seeing that might tip you over to finally fight for what's yours and finally get normal work, or continue working like a mad man but being adequately paid. You don't have to believe my stories and listen to my advices, but seeing such numbers, I hope you get hurt enough to rebel a bit.

@392,656 (B)
Well that's just dumb. I filmed how my employee was running flour through a sieve to filter out the worms that plagued it.
I requested both, better working conditions for all of us, overtime paid 30% more and I requested that batch of contaminated flour to be destroyed.

What could he do? Call the cops and say I'll expose how he's poisoning the nation with worms infested flour? Oh boy sure I was the bad guy in this story.

(Edited 52 seconds later.)

@392,653 (E)
Almost everyone in the building, managers included, would probably agree with me or at least sympathize with me. The problem is it's mainly coming down from corporate asking for the impossible. Corporate comes in and complains that our building is not up to par, but then they tell management that they need to cut 500 hours. This puts a huge amount of pressure on management and they start grilling everybody, despite the fact that the people they're grilling just had their hours cut. Disgruntled employees are now even more disgruntled with impatient managers. Stressed managers get disgruntled with employees who work less hard instead of more hard to show them what's what. Corporate essentially turns everyone in the buildings against each other. Managers are still more to blame because they make more to begin with, don't have to deal with the pay cuts, and could at least learn to control their tempers and sympathize with employees to prevent morale from sliding. If you're not mature enough to do this, you probably shouldn't be in management.

I try to be the good guy who works harder while everyone else is pissed off and I don't want to be that guy who complains. That doesn't mean I'm silent about any of this. I have talked to several supervisors and managers about these things, and when I do, I try my best to not come off as complaining. I try to stay positive, not come off as upset or angry, and be as reasonable as possible. I want my concerns to be well thought out and taken seriously rather than just another angry complaint from a disgruntled employee. They say you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. The problem is that no matter how nice and reasonable I try to be, they will completely side-step anything you try to tell them. If corporate is hammering them, it's pretty much their job to at least pretend they don't sympathize even when they do. It can be very frustrating to try to see things from their point of view, take all of their criticisms constructively, and still not get the slightest bit of concession from them in return.

The conversation goes something like "I understand where you're coming from and appreciate your perspective. I will try to improve by taking your advice. However, [insert my perspective here]. Do you see where I am coming from? If not can you help me understand why I am wrong to see things this way? Can we reach some sort of compromise that is mutually beneficial for both of us?" This process should repeat itself until both parties understand where misunderstandings are arising and how we can improve. To me, this is the definition of constructive criticism. This is how two parties can come to an agreement without arguing. The conversations I have with them are completely one-sided. I listen, I explain what I understand and give concessions about how I should improve, I explain what I disagree with or don't understand and why, and I give them a chance to retort. They just repeat the same thing they said at first, and accuse me of being argumentative. They don't even try to pretend to see things from my point of view. There are a couple higher-up managers who are smart enough to understand how this works, but most of the people I deal with only know how to argue and don't know how to negotiate.

@392,655 (TheSheep !kJ.A4PF7.k)
You're right, you were called a retard first. As I said in previous posts, I appreciate your perspective. Although you can catch more flies with honey, I am running out of honey. If they're unreasonable and I'm chasing a ghost, I should change up my tactics and force them to change up theirs. There is a time to be more aggressive and less compromising. I said in previous posts that I might take your advice, but take a route less radical and more along the lines of civil disobedience. You also make an excellent point that a reference is only worth so much. One of the reasons I am even searching for other jobs is to build up more professional references, even if it means taking a pay cut in the short-term. Their reference is useless if they are unreasonable. I still don't agree that trying to maintain a healthy relationship with your employer makes you spineless. You're absolutely right that you have to draw a line in the sand at some point though.

work is tough sometimes boo hoo hoo.....cry moar..