Topic: Oh crap. Christians should never purchase or decorate a Christmas tree.
buspup !!x+kkCmnF4 started this discussion 14 years ago #23,789
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah+10%3A1-5&version=NIV
“Do not learn the ways of the nations
or be terrified by signs in the heavens,
though the nations are terrified by them.
3 For the practices of the peoples are worthless;
they cut a tree out of the forest,
and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel.
4 They adorn it with silver and gold;
they fasten it with hammer and nails
so it will not totter.
5 Like a scarecrow in a cucumber field,
their idols cannot speak;
they must be carried
because they cannot walk.
Do not fear them;
they can do no harm
nor can they do any good.â€
“Do not learn the ways of the nations
or be terrified by signs in the heavens,
though the nations are terrified by them.
3 For the practices of the peoples are worthless;
they cut a tree out of the forest,
and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel.
4 They adorn it with silver and gold;
they fasten it with hammer and nails
so it will not totter.
5 Like a scarecrow in a cucumber field,
their idols cannot speak;
they must be carried
because they cannot walk.
Do not fear them;
they can do no harm
nor can they do any good.â€
Anonymous A (OP) double-posted this 14 years ago, 13 minutes later[^] [v] #370,834
http://www.christmastreehistory.net/pagan
Dating back centuries before Christ, cultures brought evergreen trees, plants, and leaves into their homes upon the arrival of the winter solstice, which occurs in the northern hemisphere between December 21st and 22nd. Although the specific practices were different in each country and culture, the symbolization was generally the same: to celebrate the return of life at the beginning of winter's decline.
Egyptians particularly valued evergreens as a symbol of life's victory over death. They brought green date palm leaves into their homes around the time of the winter solstice.
Romans had a public festival called Saturnalia, which lasted one week beginning on December 17th, and included a variety of celebrations around the winter solstice. Curiously, the Roman winter solstice was marked on December 25th on the Julian calendar. These celebrations are thought to have merged with pagan practices of hanging mistletoe and the burning of the Yule log.
In Britain, the Yule log was originally seen as a magical amulet, and eventually made it into the hand's of Father Christmas. In Italy the Yule log is still burned for the "Festa di Ceppo". In Catalonia, the log is wrapped in a blanket until Christmas Eve, when it's unwrapped and burned for the custom of "fer cagar el tio". And in Serbia, families bring the Yule log (known as a "badnjak") into their homes on Christmas Eve to be burned along with prayers to God to bring happiness, luck, and riches.
Druid priests in Great Britain also used evergreen plants and mistletoe in pagan ceremonies, and the mistletoe plant was the symbol of the birth of a god. Celtic Druids and Norseman of Scandinavia also used mistletoe in a mysterious ceremony just after the winter solstice.
In the mid 1500's, Germans began using evergreen trees as a symbol of hope for the coming of spring. This practice is likely to have gradually evolved from pagan rituals of past, and merged with the celebration of Christmas leading to the tree's Christian beginnings.
Dating back centuries before Christ, cultures brought evergreen trees, plants, and leaves into their homes upon the arrival of the winter solstice, which occurs in the northern hemisphere between December 21st and 22nd. Although the specific practices were different in each country and culture, the symbolization was generally the same: to celebrate the return of life at the beginning of winter's decline.
Egyptians particularly valued evergreens as a symbol of life's victory over death. They brought green date palm leaves into their homes around the time of the winter solstice.
Romans had a public festival called Saturnalia, which lasted one week beginning on December 17th, and included a variety of celebrations around the winter solstice. Curiously, the Roman winter solstice was marked on December 25th on the Julian calendar. These celebrations are thought to have merged with pagan practices of hanging mistletoe and the burning of the Yule log.
In Britain, the Yule log was originally seen as a magical amulet, and eventually made it into the hand's of Father Christmas. In Italy the Yule log is still burned for the "Festa di Ceppo". In Catalonia, the log is wrapped in a blanket until Christmas Eve, when it's unwrapped and burned for the custom of "fer cagar el tio". And in Serbia, families bring the Yule log (known as a "badnjak") into their homes on Christmas Eve to be burned along with prayers to God to bring happiness, luck, and riches.
Druid priests in Great Britain also used evergreen plants and mistletoe in pagan ceremonies, and the mistletoe plant was the symbol of the birth of a god. Celtic Druids and Norseman of Scandinavia also used mistletoe in a mysterious ceremony just after the winter solstice.
In the mid 1500's, Germans began using evergreen trees as a symbol of hope for the coming of spring. This practice is likely to have gradually evolved from pagan rituals of past, and merged with the celebration of Christmas leading to the tree's Christian beginnings.
TTEH !JXsxEkDBLs joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 5 minutes later, 19 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #370,839
This verse is brought up a lot, especially around Christmas. I think it is considered to be more concerned with idol worship than the specific act of decorating a tree.
buspup !!x+kkCmnF4 (OP) replied with this 14 years ago, 2 minutes later, 22 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #370,840
@previous (TTEH !JXsxEkDBLs)
Sounds like a warning against acting like pagans to me. What did pagans do? Bring trees into the home.
Sounds like a warning against acting like pagans to me. What did pagans do? Bring trees into the home.
buspup !!x+kkCmnF4 (OP) double-posted this 14 years ago, 36 seconds later, 23 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #370,841
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_tree
Possible predecessors
While it is clear that the modern Christmas tree originates in Renaissance and early modern Germany, there are a number of speculative theories as to its ultimate origin. Its 16th-century origins are sometimes associated with Martin Luther.[4][5]
It is frequently traced to the symbolism of evergreen trees in pre-Christian winter rites, especially with the story of the Donar Oak and Saint Boniface.[6]
According to the Encyclopædia Britannica, "The use of evergreen trees, wreaths, and garlands to symbolize eternal life was a custom of the ancient Egyptians, Chinese, and Hebrews. Tree worship was common among the pagan Europeans and survived their conversion to Christianity in the Scandinavian customs of decorating the house and barn with evergreens at the New Year to scare away the devil and of setting up a tree for the birds during Christmastime."[7]
Alternatively, it is identified with the "tree of paradise" of medieval mystery plays that were given on 24 December, the commemoration and name day of Adam and Eve in various countries. In such plays, a tree decorated with apples (to represent the forbidden fruit) and wafers (to represent the Eucharist and redemption) was used as a setting for the play. Like the Christmas crib, the Paradise tree was later placed in homes. The apples were replaced by round objects such as shiny red balls.[3]
Possible predecessors
While it is clear that the modern Christmas tree originates in Renaissance and early modern Germany, there are a number of speculative theories as to its ultimate origin. Its 16th-century origins are sometimes associated with Martin Luther.[4][5]
It is frequently traced to the symbolism of evergreen trees in pre-Christian winter rites, especially with the story of the Donar Oak and Saint Boniface.[6]
According to the Encyclopædia Britannica, "The use of evergreen trees, wreaths, and garlands to symbolize eternal life was a custom of the ancient Egyptians, Chinese, and Hebrews. Tree worship was common among the pagan Europeans and survived their conversion to Christianity in the Scandinavian customs of decorating the house and barn with evergreens at the New Year to scare away the devil and of setting up a tree for the birds during Christmastime."[7]
Alternatively, it is identified with the "tree of paradise" of medieval mystery plays that were given on 24 December, the commemoration and name day of Adam and Eve in various countries. In such plays, a tree decorated with apples (to represent the forbidden fruit) and wafers (to represent the Eucharist and redemption) was used as a setting for the play. Like the Christmas crib, the Paradise tree was later placed in homes. The apples were replaced by round objects such as shiny red balls.[3]
Anonymous C joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 13 minutes later, 36 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #370,843
@370,840 (buspup !!x+kkCmnF4)
Damn. I'm in a tough position here. On the one hand, I want to argue against your questionable logic in that post, but on the other Christians suck and you're making fun of them.
Damn. I'm in a tough position here. On the one hand, I want to argue against your questionable logic in that post, but on the other Christians suck and you're making fun of them.
buspup !!x+kkCmnF4 (OP) replied with this 14 years ago, 5 minutes later, 41 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #370,847
buspup !!x+kkCmnF4 (OP) double-posted this 14 years ago, 7 minutes later, 49 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #370,848
http://www.seiyaku.com/customs/crosses/wreath.html
The wreath is a ring made of flowers, leaves, fruits, cones, twigs, etc. It is an old Pagan symbol and to associate it with a cross may at first appear strange. Yet we must remember - the cross too, was used by Pagans long before the arrival of Christianity.
Germanic tribes used wreaths in the winter and decorated them with small candles. This was to encourage the onset of spring - the circular wreath representing the turning seasons and the candles representing the warmth of the sun. (See also Midsommarstang Cross)
Wreaths were worn like a crown, perhaps in honour of the Sun god, by the Romans to celebrate various festivals. In particular, they were worn by officers in military parades. This custom continues to this day, in the form of a wreath or part-wreath decorations on most caps and helmets of military officers around the world.
Evergreen leaves symbolize life, even in the severest winters, and the circle symbolizes immortality. The ancient Greeks used a wreath made of laurel of olive leaves as a winner's crown in the Pythian Games. This has been carried forward into various designs used by today's Olympic Games (although clearly absent from the ridiculous London Olympics logo for 2012.)
Because of its association with the everlasting life of the soul, wreaths are common decorations for funerals, graves and monuments, both civil and military. See also the Funeral Cross and Burial Cross. (We feel the London Olympics logo deserves a burial wreath.)
For funerals at sea, a wreath is tossed into the water like a lifebelt, symbolising the hope that although the body has gone, the soul might be saved.
The wreath is a ring made of flowers, leaves, fruits, cones, twigs, etc. It is an old Pagan symbol and to associate it with a cross may at first appear strange. Yet we must remember - the cross too, was used by Pagans long before the arrival of Christianity.
Germanic tribes used wreaths in the winter and decorated them with small candles. This was to encourage the onset of spring - the circular wreath representing the turning seasons and the candles representing the warmth of the sun. (See also Midsommarstang Cross)
Wreaths were worn like a crown, perhaps in honour of the Sun god, by the Romans to celebrate various festivals. In particular, they were worn by officers in military parades. This custom continues to this day, in the form of a wreath or part-wreath decorations on most caps and helmets of military officers around the world.
Evergreen leaves symbolize life, even in the severest winters, and the circle symbolizes immortality. The ancient Greeks used a wreath made of laurel of olive leaves as a winner's crown in the Pythian Games. This has been carried forward into various designs used by today's Olympic Games (although clearly absent from the ridiculous London Olympics logo for 2012.)
Because of its association with the everlasting life of the soul, wreaths are common decorations for funerals, graves and monuments, both civil and military. See also the Funeral Cross and Burial Cross. (We feel the London Olympics logo deserves a burial wreath.)
For funerals at sea, a wreath is tossed into the water like a lifebelt, symbolising the hope that although the body has gone, the soul might be saved.
(Edited 49 seconds later.)
buspup !!x+kkCmnF4 (OP) triple-posted this 14 years ago, 5 minutes later, 54 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #370,850
http://www.essortment.com/christmas-pagan-origins-42543.html
No one knows what day Jesus Christ was born on. From the biblical description, most historians believe that his birth probably occurred in September, approximately six months after Passover. One thing they agree on is that it is very unlikely that Jesus was born in December, since the bible records shepherds tending their sheep in the fields on that night. This is quite unlikely to have happened during a cold Judean winter. So why do we celebrate Christ's birthday as Christmas, on December the 25th?
The answer lies in the pagan origins of Christmas. In ancient Babylon, the feast of the Son of Isis (Goddess of Nature) was celebrated on December 25. Raucous partying, gluttonous eating and drinking, and gift-giving were traditions of this feast.
In Rome, the Winter Solstice was celebrated many years before the birth of Christ. The Romans called their winter holiday Saturnalia, honoring Saturn, the God of Agriculture. In January, they observed the Kalends of January, which represented the triumph of life over death. This whole season was called Dies Natalis Invicti Solis, the Birthday of the Unconquered Sun. The festival season was marked by much merrymaking. It is in ancient Rome that the tradition of the Mummers was born. The Mummers were groups of costumed singers and dancers who traveled from house to house entertaining their neighbors. From this, the Christmas tradition of caroling was born.
In northern Europe, many other traditions that we now consider part of Christian worship were begun long before the participants had ever heard of Christ. The pagans of northern Europe celebrated the their own winter solstice, known as Yule. Yule was symbolic of the pagan Sun God, Mithras, being born, and was observed on the shortest day of the year. As the Sun God grew and matured, the days became longer and warmer. It was customary to light a candle to encourage Mithras, and the sun, to reappear next year.
Huge Yule logs were burned in honor of the sun. The word Yule itself means "wheel," the wheel being a pagan symbol for the sun. Mistletoe was considered a sacred plant, and the custom of kissing under the mistletoe began as a fertility ritual. Hollyberries were thought to be a food of the gods.
The tree is the one symbol that unites almost all the northern European winter solstices. Live evergreen trees were often brought into homes during the harsh winters as a reminder to inhabitants that soon their crops would grow again. Evergreen boughs were sometimes carried as totems of good luck and were often present at weddings, representing fertility. The Druids used the tree as a religious symbol, holding their sacred ceremonies while surrounding and worshipping huge trees.
In 350, Pope Julius I declared that Christ's birth would be celebrated on December 25. There is little doubt that he was trying to make it as painless as possible for pagan Romans (who remained a majority at that time) to convert to Christianity. The new religion went down a bit easier, knowing that their feasts would not be taken away from them.
Christmas (Christ-Mass) as we know it today, most historians agree, began in Germany, though Catholics and Lutherans still disagree about which church celebrated it first. The earliest record of an evergreen being decorated in a Christian celebration was in 1521 in the Alsace region of Germany. A prominent Lutheran minister of the day cried blasphemy: "Better that they should look to the true tree of life, Christ."
No one knows what day Jesus Christ was born on. From the biblical description, most historians believe that his birth probably occurred in September, approximately six months after Passover. One thing they agree on is that it is very unlikely that Jesus was born in December, since the bible records shepherds tending their sheep in the fields on that night. This is quite unlikely to have happened during a cold Judean winter. So why do we celebrate Christ's birthday as Christmas, on December the 25th?
The answer lies in the pagan origins of Christmas. In ancient Babylon, the feast of the Son of Isis (Goddess of Nature) was celebrated on December 25. Raucous partying, gluttonous eating and drinking, and gift-giving were traditions of this feast.
In Rome, the Winter Solstice was celebrated many years before the birth of Christ. The Romans called their winter holiday Saturnalia, honoring Saturn, the God of Agriculture. In January, they observed the Kalends of January, which represented the triumph of life over death. This whole season was called Dies Natalis Invicti Solis, the Birthday of the Unconquered Sun. The festival season was marked by much merrymaking. It is in ancient Rome that the tradition of the Mummers was born. The Mummers were groups of costumed singers and dancers who traveled from house to house entertaining their neighbors. From this, the Christmas tradition of caroling was born.
In northern Europe, many other traditions that we now consider part of Christian worship were begun long before the participants had ever heard of Christ. The pagans of northern Europe celebrated the their own winter solstice, known as Yule. Yule was symbolic of the pagan Sun God, Mithras, being born, and was observed on the shortest day of the year. As the Sun God grew and matured, the days became longer and warmer. It was customary to light a candle to encourage Mithras, and the sun, to reappear next year.
Huge Yule logs were burned in honor of the sun. The word Yule itself means "wheel," the wheel being a pagan symbol for the sun. Mistletoe was considered a sacred plant, and the custom of kissing under the mistletoe began as a fertility ritual. Hollyberries were thought to be a food of the gods.
The tree is the one symbol that unites almost all the northern European winter solstices. Live evergreen trees were often brought into homes during the harsh winters as a reminder to inhabitants that soon their crops would grow again. Evergreen boughs were sometimes carried as totems of good luck and were often present at weddings, representing fertility. The Druids used the tree as a religious symbol, holding their sacred ceremonies while surrounding and worshipping huge trees.
In 350, Pope Julius I declared that Christ's birth would be celebrated on December 25. There is little doubt that he was trying to make it as painless as possible for pagan Romans (who remained a majority at that time) to convert to Christianity. The new religion went down a bit easier, knowing that their feasts would not be taken away from them.
Christmas (Christ-Mass) as we know it today, most historians agree, began in Germany, though Catholics and Lutherans still disagree about which church celebrated it first. The earliest record of an evergreen being decorated in a Christian celebration was in 1521 in the Alsace region of Germany. A prominent Lutheran minister of the day cried blasphemy: "Better that they should look to the true tree of life, Christ."
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) !0VegJ9Jl.Q joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 1 hour later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,862
Praise Odin for I am a pagan.
buspup !!x+kkCmnF4 (OP) replied with this 14 years ago, 6 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,864
buspup !!x+kkCmnF4 (OP) double-posted this 14 years ago, 15 seconds later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,865
Anonymous C replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,866
squeegee !first/o5zA joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 30 seconds later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,867
oh, so cool, all the fun stuff about christmas is really just pagan, so i can still be a part of christmas as an atheist. it's just a celebration of the winter solstice~!
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) !0VegJ9Jl.Q replied with this 14 years ago, 7 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,871
buspup !!x+kkCmnF4 (OP) replied with this 14 years ago, 14 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,876
Anonymous F joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 6 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,879
@370,843 (C)
> Damn. I'm in a tough position here. On the one hand, I want to argue against your questionable logic in that post, but on the other Christians suck and you're making fun of them.
this
> Damn. I'm in a tough position here. On the one hand, I want to argue against your questionable logic in that post, but on the other Christians suck and you're making fun of them.
this
buspup !!x+kkCmnF4 (OP) replied with this 14 years ago, 4 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,880
Anonymous G joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 1 hour later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,904
@370,862 (( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) !0VegJ9Jl.Q)
You are literally the worst. All of your ancestors, centuries and centuries ago, saw the degeneracy of the pagan religions and abandoned them for the true Faith. You are an embarrassment to them.
You are literally the worst. All of your ancestors, centuries and centuries ago, saw the degeneracy of the pagan religions and abandoned them for the true Faith. You are an embarrassment to them.
Anonymous G double-posted this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,905
> Christians suckAnonymous H joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 13 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,913
Spoiler alert!
"saw the degeneracy of the pagan religions" really means "were threatened with torture or death by Christians seeking to force them to abandon their religious beliefs"
"saw the degeneracy of the pagan religions" really means "were threatened with torture or death by Christians seeking to force them to abandon their religious beliefs"
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 14 years ago, 6 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,915
Syntax in Redux Mode joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 7 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,917
http://www.hulu.com/watch/1373 (pardon shitty commercial)
''On Christmas Eve the Gentiles gather
'Round the Christmas tree
They stay at home and party with
Their Goyishe family
They disappear one day each year
And pass the egg nog 'round
But it's all right, 'cause that's the night
The Jews control the town.''
''Well it happens every year on Christmas Eve
All the happy Christian people take their leave
Yeah, the streets are deserted, and that's big news
It's Christmastime for the Jews.''
''Yeah, the holiday party starts 'bout 6 PM
Ain't nobody recreating Bethlehem
Yeah, the Three Wise Men, that's a big ol' snooze
Christmastime for the Jews."
They can finally see King Kong without waiting in line
They can eat in Chinatown and drink their sweet-ass wine
They can crank Barbara Streisand on the streets they cruise
Christmastime for the Jews.''
''They can gang up on the Quakers,
Play for the Lakers,
They can do what they wanna,
Even blow off Madonna
Get a chance to drive a tractor,
Win on Fear Factor,
See Fiddler on the Roof with actual Jewish actors ...''
''Now they really get the party going after dark
Circumcising grateful squirrels in the city park
Picking fights in the bar knowing they can't lose
Christmastime for the Jews.''
''Now it's nearly 10:30, yes it's time for bed
"Daily Show" reruns dancing in their head."
Maybe next year they'll learn to hold their booze.''
''Christmastime for the Jews
Christmastime for the Jews (Don't ya see now ...)
Christmastime for the Jews.''
''On Christmas Eve the Gentiles gather
'Round the Christmas tree
They stay at home and party with
Their Goyishe family
They disappear one day each year
And pass the egg nog 'round
But it's all right, 'cause that's the night
The Jews control the town.''
''Well it happens every year on Christmas Eve
All the happy Christian people take their leave
Yeah, the streets are deserted, and that's big news
It's Christmastime for the Jews.''
''Yeah, the holiday party starts 'bout 6 PM
Ain't nobody recreating Bethlehem
Yeah, the Three Wise Men, that's a big ol' snooze
Christmastime for the Jews."
They can finally see King Kong without waiting in line
They can eat in Chinatown and drink their sweet-ass wine
They can crank Barbara Streisand on the streets they cruise
Christmastime for the Jews.''
''They can gang up on the Quakers,
Play for the Lakers,
They can do what they wanna,
Even blow off Madonna
Get a chance to drive a tractor,
Win on Fear Factor,
See Fiddler on the Roof with actual Jewish actors ...''
''Now they really get the party going after dark
Circumcising grateful squirrels in the city park
Picking fights in the bar knowing they can't lose
Christmastime for the Jews.''
''Now it's nearly 10:30, yes it's time for bed
"Daily Show" reruns dancing in their head."
Maybe next year they'll learn to hold their booze.''
''Christmastime for the Jews
Christmastime for the Jews (Don't ya see now ...)
Christmastime for the Jews.''
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 14 years ago, 2 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,924
@370,905 (G)
This isnt even an anti Christian thread. Celebrating Christmas actually used to be banned for many denominations, because it was considered pagan.
This isnt even an anti Christian thread. Celebrating Christmas actually used to be banned for many denominations, because it was considered pagan.
Anonymous G replied with this 14 years ago, 5 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,927
@previous (A)
> Celebrating Christmas actually used to be banned for many denominations, because it was considered pagan.
source?
> Celebrating Christmas actually used to be banned for many denominations, because it was considered pagan.
source?
Anonymous G double-posted this 14 years ago, 2 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,928
@370,913 (H)
The first Germanic peoples to convert were those who would go on to conquer the Roman Empire and rule Christendom. So, no, lol.
The first Germanic peoples to convert were those who would go on to conquer the Roman Empire and rule Christendom. So, no, lol.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 14 years ago, 15 seconds later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,929
@370,927 (G)
A few
To start The Puritans
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_in_Puritan_New_England
Christmas celebrations in Puritan New England (1620–1850?) were culturally and legally suppressed and thus, virtually non-existent. The Puritan community found no Scriptural justification for celebrating Christmas, and associated such celebrations with paganism and idolatry. The earliest years of the Plymouth colony were troubled with non-Puritans attempting to make merry, and Governor William Bradford was forced to reprimand offenders. English laws suppressing the holiday were enacted in the Interregnum, but repealed late in the 17th century. However, the Puritan view of Christmas and its celebration had gained cultural ascendancy in New England, and Christmas celebrations continued to be discouraged despite being legal. When Christmas became a Federal holiday in 1870, the Puritan view was relaxed and late nineteenth century Americans fashioned the day into the Christmas of commercialism, liberal spirituality, and nostalgia that most Americans recognize today.
A few
To start The Puritans
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_in_Puritan_New_England
Christmas celebrations in Puritan New England (1620–1850?) were culturally and legally suppressed and thus, virtually non-existent. The Puritan community found no Scriptural justification for celebrating Christmas, and associated such celebrations with paganism and idolatry. The earliest years of the Plymouth colony were troubled with non-Puritans attempting to make merry, and Governor William Bradford was forced to reprimand offenders. English laws suppressing the holiday were enacted in the Interregnum, but repealed late in the 17th century. However, the Puritan view of Christmas and its celebration had gained cultural ascendancy in New England, and Christmas celebrations continued to be discouraged despite being legal. When Christmas became a Federal holiday in 1870, the Puritan view was relaxed and late nineteenth century Americans fashioned the day into the Christmas of commercialism, liberal spirituality, and nostalgia that most Americans recognize today.
(Edited 24 seconds later.)
Anonymous G replied with this 14 years ago, 5 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,932
Anonymous G double-posted this 14 years ago, 29 seconds later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,933
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 14 years ago, 45 seconds later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,934
@370,929 (A)
Jehovah's Witnesses don't celebrate Christsmas because of its pagan roots.
http://www.towerwatch.com/Witnesses/Beliefs/their_beliefs.htm
Jehovah's Witnesses don't celebrate Christsmas because of its pagan roots.
http://www.towerwatch.com/Witnesses/Beliefs/their_beliefs.htm
Anonymous A (OP) double-posted this 14 years ago, 9 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,944
@previous (A)
Quakers
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/subdivisions/quakers_1.shtml
Quakers
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/subdivisions/quakers_1.shtml
Anonymous A (OP) triple-posted this 14 years ago, 5 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,949
@previous (A)
Puritans in England did this first, before they went to America.
Puritan era
The first documented Christmas controversy was Christian-led, and began during the English Interregnum, when England was ruled by a Puritan Parliament.[51] Puritans sought to remove elements they viewed as "pagan" (because they were not biblical in origin) from Christianity (see Pre-Christianity below). In 1647, the Puritan-led English Parliament banned the celebration of Christmas, replacing it with a day of fasting and considering it "a popish festival with no biblical justification", and a time of wasteful and immoral behavior.[52] Protests followed as pro-Christmas rioting broke out in several cities and for weeks Canterbury was controlled by the rioters, who decorated doorways with holly and shouted royalist slogans.[53] The book, The Vindication of Christmas (London, 1652), argued against the Puritans, and makes note of Old English Christmas traditions, dinner, roast apples on the fire, card playing, dances with "plow-boys" and "maidservants", and carol singing.[54] The Restoration of King Charles II in 1660 ended the ban, but many clergymen still disapproved of Christmas celebration. In Scotland, the Presbyterian Church of Scotland also discouraged observance of Christmas. James VI commanded its celebration in 1618, however attendance at church was scant.[55]
In Colonial America, the Puritans of New England disapproved of Christmas, and celebration was outlawed in Boston from 1659 to 1681.[56] The ban by the Pilgrims was revoked by English governor Edmund Andros, however it was not until the mid-19th century that celebrating Christmas became fashionable in the Boston region.[57] By the Declaration of Independence in 1776, it was not widely celebrated in the US.[56
Puritans in England did this first, before they went to America.
Puritan era
The first documented Christmas controversy was Christian-led, and began during the English Interregnum, when England was ruled by a Puritan Parliament.[51] Puritans sought to remove elements they viewed as "pagan" (because they were not biblical in origin) from Christianity (see Pre-Christianity below). In 1647, the Puritan-led English Parliament banned the celebration of Christmas, replacing it with a day of fasting and considering it "a popish festival with no biblical justification", and a time of wasteful and immoral behavior.[52] Protests followed as pro-Christmas rioting broke out in several cities and for weeks Canterbury was controlled by the rioters, who decorated doorways with holly and shouted royalist slogans.[53] The book, The Vindication of Christmas (London, 1652), argued against the Puritans, and makes note of Old English Christmas traditions, dinner, roast apples on the fire, card playing, dances with "plow-boys" and "maidservants", and carol singing.[54] The Restoration of King Charles II in 1660 ended the ban, but many clergymen still disapproved of Christmas celebration. In Scotland, the Presbyterian Church of Scotland also discouraged observance of Christmas. James VI commanded its celebration in 1618, however attendance at church was scant.[55]
In Colonial America, the Puritans of New England disapproved of Christmas, and celebration was outlawed in Boston from 1659 to 1681.[56] The ban by the Pilgrims was revoked by English governor Edmund Andros, however it was not until the mid-19th century that celebrating Christmas became fashionable in the Boston region.[57] By the Declaration of Independence in 1776, it was not widely celebrated in the US.[56
Anonymous A (OP) quadruple-posted this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,950
@370,932 (G)
You've said before that Catholics have the most accurate biblical views, but that you would also never leave your church. Enjoy living a lie.
You've said before that Catholics have the most accurate biblical views, but that you would also never leave your church. Enjoy living a lie.
Anonymous G replied with this 14 years ago, 4 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,954
Anonymous G double-posted this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,957
@370,950 (A)
I'm not living a lie. I go to Mass whenever I can. I'm baptized. The Church I'm at really only concerns itself with the essentials of doctrine, which I fit.
I'm not living a lie. I go to Mass whenever I can. I'm baptized. The Church I'm at really only concerns itself with the essentials of doctrine, which I fit.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 14 years ago, 14 seconds later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,958
Anonymous A (OP) double-posted this 14 years ago, 37 seconds later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,959
Anonymous H replied with this 14 years ago, 6 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,964
@370,928 (G)
> Pretending a subset of Goths and Franks in antiquity is representative of all Germanic peoples
> Pretending a subset of Goths and Franks in antiquity is representative of all Germanic peoples
Anonymous G replied with this 14 years ago, 12 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,966
Anonymous G double-posted this 14 years ago, 2 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,967
Anonymous G triple-posted this 14 years ago, 27 seconds later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,968
Anonymous J joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 5 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,971
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 14 years ago, 29 seconds later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,972
Anonymous A (OP) double-posted this 14 years ago, 36 seconds later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,973
Anonymous A (OP) triple-posted this 14 years ago, 2 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,974
@370,971 (J)
They celebrate one day, and its called The Memorial of Christs Death, because they believe it to have been instituted by Jesus himself. They consider birthdays, and Easter, and many other holidays to have pagan origins.
They celebrate one day, and its called The Memorial of Christs Death, because they believe it to have been instituted by Jesus himself. They consider birthdays, and Easter, and many other holidays to have pagan origins.
Anonymous A (OP) quadruple-posted this 14 years ago, 4 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,976
@previous (A)
From their site
Jesus never commanded Christians to celebrate his birth. Rather, he told his disciples to memorialize, or remember, his death. (Luke 22:19, 20) Christmas and its customs come from ancient false religions. The same is true of Easter customs, such as the use of eggs and rabbits. The early Christians did not celebrate Christmas or Easter, nor do true Christians today.
The only two birthday celebrations spoken of in the Bible were held by persons who did not worship Jehovah. (Genesis 40:20-22; Mark 6:21, 22, 24-27) The early Christians did not celebrate birthdays. The custom of celebrating birthdays comes from ancient false religions. True Christians give gifts and have good times together at other times during the year.
From their site
Jesus never commanded Christians to celebrate his birth. Rather, he told his disciples to memorialize, or remember, his death. (Luke 22:19, 20) Christmas and its customs come from ancient false religions. The same is true of Easter customs, such as the use of eggs and rabbits. The early Christians did not celebrate Christmas or Easter, nor do true Christians today.
The only two birthday celebrations spoken of in the Bible were held by persons who did not worship Jehovah. (Genesis 40:20-22; Mark 6:21, 22, 24-27) The early Christians did not celebrate birthdays. The custom of celebrating birthdays comes from ancient false religions. True Christians give gifts and have good times together at other times during the year.
Anonymous A (OP) quintuple-posted this 14 years ago, 5 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,977
Which is more Christian, Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses?
(Edited 15 seconds later.)
Anonymous G replied with this 14 years ago, 53 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,980
Anonymous G double-posted this 14 years ago, 9 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,982
@370,973 (A)
Never! I don't know how it works. I'm still learning. I don't know when the confessionals are open.
Never! I don't know how it works. I'm still learning. I don't know when the confessionals are open.
Anonymous G triple-posted this 14 years ago, 8 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,985
@370,976 (A)
omg lol Easter (Pascha) is THE Christian holiday, celebrated from the start. Christmas is a little later but still ancient.
@370,977 (A)
JW. They rehash mainly a lot of old heresies, whereas Mormons seem to have made up some new ones.
omg lol Easter (Pascha) is THE Christian holiday, celebrated from the start. Christmas is a little later but still ancient.
@370,977 (A)
JW. They rehash mainly a lot of old heresies, whereas Mormons seem to have made up some new ones.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 14 years ago, 23 minutes later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,989
@previous (G)
In America, they celebrate Easter with Pagan practices like coloring eggs, and telling stories about egg laying rabbits.
Can you please explain this further? Tell us of the heresies in both, so that we may compare.
In America, they celebrate Easter with Pagan practices like coloring eggs, and telling stories about egg laying rabbits.
Can you please explain this further? Tell us of the heresies in both, so that we may compare.
(Edited 1 minute later.)
Anonymous G replied with this 14 years ago, 16 minutes later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,990
@previous (A)
Eggs are forbidden during Lent, so there is a huge surplus. So what do people do? Decorate them.
Eggs are forbidden during Lent, so there is a huge surplus. So what do people do? Decorate them.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 14 years ago, 3 minutes later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,992
@previous (G)
That's why they hard boil them, not why they decorate them. They decorate them because they are celebrating life and rebirth. Just like they did before Jesus existed.
That's why they hard boil them, not why they decorate them. They decorate them because they are celebrating life and rebirth. Just like they did before Jesus existed.
Anonymous G replied with this 14 years ago, 11 minutes later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #370,994
@previous (A)
> They decorate them because they are celebrating life and rebirth.
Regardless of origins, that is not the reason they decorate them. They decorate them because it is the Passover feast, when we celebrate the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
> They decorate them because they are celebrating life and rebirth.
Regardless of origins, that is not the reason they decorate them. They decorate them because it is the Passover feast, when we celebrate the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 14 years ago, 36 minutes later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #371,000
@previous (G)
They took a pagan fertility custom, and slapped a Jesus sticker on it. That doesn't change anything. Jehovah's Witnesses believe that you shouldnt mimic pagans.
They took a pagan fertility custom, and slapped a Jesus sticker on it. That doesn't change anything. Jehovah's Witnesses believe that you shouldnt mimic pagans.
Anonymous I replied with this 14 years ago, 5 minutes later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #371,001
@370,994 (G)
I as an Ex Jew pass over Passover. It is a HORRID Disgusting event and I am 100% Serious about this. A Foul mean spirited celebration where male Egos take over and ignore the women and children as Males dance with each other while the Children actually Starve and everyone gets very drunk drinking mandatory amounts of sick sweet wine.
I as an Ex Jew pass over Passover. It is a HORRID Disgusting event and I am 100% Serious about this. A Foul mean spirited celebration where male Egos take over and ignore the women and children as Males dance with each other while the Children actually Starve and everyone gets very drunk drinking mandatory amounts of sick sweet wine.
Anonymous F replied with this 14 years ago, 9 minutes later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #371,002
Anonymous H replied with this 14 years ago, 45 minutes later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #371,021
Anonymous G replied with this 14 years ago, 4 hours later, 14 hours after the original post[^] [v] #371,055
Anonymous G double-posted this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 14 hours after the original post[^] [v] #371,056
Anonymous H replied with this 14 years ago, 2 hours later, 16 hours after the original post[^] [v] #371,061
@previous (G)
In case the humor missed its mark, I'm referring to your own personal twist on "No true Scotsman" where you claim that some Christian sect isn't "really" Christian because they don't follow the teachings of Jesus, or they act a certain way, or they follow heresies. In the end, your statements basically boil down to: "I don't consider these 'true' Christians because I believe something different."
Speaking of heresies, I doubt that whatever tribe of Christianized Germans you were trying to allude to here (@370,928 (G)) would qualify as true Christians by some of these conditions. Which group were you referring to anyway?
In case the humor missed its mark, I'm referring to your own personal twist on "No true Scotsman" where you claim that some Christian sect isn't "really" Christian because they don't follow the teachings of Jesus, or they act a certain way, or they follow heresies. In the end, your statements basically boil down to: "I don't consider these 'true' Christians because I believe something different."
Speaking of heresies, I doubt that whatever tribe of Christianized Germans you were trying to allude to here (@370,928 (G)) would qualify as true Christians by some of these conditions. Which group were you referring to anyway?
Anonymous G replied with this 14 years ago, 28 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #371,064
@previous (H)
> In case the humor missed its mark, I'm referring to your own personal twist on "No true Scotsman"
That wasn't humor lol. But no, it's not that I didn't understand the reference, it's that I dispute it's a fallacy.
> where you claim that some Christian sect isn't "really" Christian because they don't follow the teachings of Jesus,
That is the definition of a Christian, so it's hardly a fallacy to claim that.
> In the end, your statements basically boil down to: "I don't consider these 'true' Christians because I believe something different."
It's like saying you don't have to be born in Scotland to be a "true Scotsman". Utter nonsense, and a misunderstanding of the fallacy.
> Speaking of heresies, I doubt that whatever tribe of Christianized Germans you were trying to allude to here would qualify as true Christians by some of these conditions. Which group were you referring to anyway?
Franks and Anglo-Saxons. Other German tribes voluntarily converted to Arian Christianity, but later became Nicene.
> In case the humor missed its mark, I'm referring to your own personal twist on "No true Scotsman"
That wasn't humor lol. But no, it's not that I didn't understand the reference, it's that I dispute it's a fallacy.
> where you claim that some Christian sect isn't "really" Christian because they don't follow the teachings of Jesus,
That is the definition of a Christian, so it's hardly a fallacy to claim that.
> In the end, your statements basically boil down to: "I don't consider these 'true' Christians because I believe something different."
It's like saying you don't have to be born in Scotland to be a "true Scotsman". Utter nonsense, and a misunderstanding of the fallacy.
> Speaking of heresies, I doubt that whatever tribe of Christianized Germans you were trying to allude to here would qualify as true Christians by some of these conditions. Which group were you referring to anyway?
Franks and Anglo-Saxons. Other German tribes voluntarily converted to Arian Christianity, but later became Nicene.
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) !0VegJ9Jl.Q replied with this 14 years ago, 36 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #371,066
There is nothing more degenerate than a religion that promises you that you will be rewarded no matter what, so long as you accept the belief that someone died two-thousand years ago.
Anonymous H replied with this 14 years ago, 8 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #371,069
@371,064 (G)
> > where you claim that some Christian sect isn't "really" Christian because they don't follow the teachings of Jesus,
> That is the definition of a Christian, so it's hardly a fallacy to claim that.
LOL That's some cute cherry-picking there.
The problem is not that some group doesn't follow the teachings of Jesus. The problem is that you claim they aren't Christians because they don't follow the teachings of Jesus as you interpret them.
> > where you claim that some Christian sect isn't "really" Christian because they don't follow the teachings of Jesus,
> That is the definition of a Christian, so it's hardly a fallacy to claim that.
LOL That's some cute cherry-picking there.
The problem is not that some group doesn't follow the teachings of Jesus. The problem is that you claim they aren't Christians because they don't follow the teachings of Jesus as you interpret them.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 14 years ago, 2 hours later, 20 hours after the original post[^] [v] #371,081
Anonymous A (OP) double-posted this 14 years ago, 18 seconds later, 20 hours after the original post[^] [v] #371,082
Anonymous G replied with this 14 years ago, 2 hours later, 22 hours after the original post[^] [v] #371,121
@371,066 (( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) !0VegJ9Jl.Q)
> There is nothing more degenerate than a religion that promises you that you will be rewarded no matter what, so long as you accept the belief that someone died two-thousand years ago.
Sounds like Lutheranism (but not like Catholicism)!
> There is nothing more degenerate than a religion that promises you that you will be rewarded no matter what, so long as you accept the belief that someone died two-thousand years ago.
Sounds like Lutheranism (but not like Catholicism)!
Anonymous G double-posted this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 22 hours after the original post[^] [v] #371,122
Anonymous G triple-posted this 14 years ago, 49 seconds later, 22 hours after the original post[^] [v] #371,123
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) !0VegJ9Jl.Q replied with this 14 years ago, 11 minutes later, 22 hours after the original post[^] [v] #371,126
buspup !!x+kkCmnF4 (OP) replied with this 14 years ago, 59 seconds later, 22 hours after the original post[^] [v] #371,128
@371,123 (G)
You are? You claim to be a Catholic (which you arent) but don't practice their beliefs because its too hard to do so. You've also claimed that Mormons are somehow more Christian than Jehovah's Witnesses, and refused to explain this belief. Do you know that Mormons believe in many gods?
You are? You claim to be a Catholic (which you arent) but don't practice their beliefs because its too hard to do so. You've also claimed that Mormons are somehow more Christian than Jehovah's Witnesses, and refused to explain this belief. Do you know that Mormons believe in many gods?
Anonymous G replied with this 14 years ago, 8 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #371,295
@371,126 (( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) !0VegJ9Jl.Q)
Butthurt paganism: you can deliberately distort the teachings of the Church!
Butthurt paganism: you can deliberately distort the teachings of the Church!
Anonymous G double-posted this 14 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #371,296
@371,128 (buspup !!x+kkCmnF4)
> You are? You claim to be a Catholic (which you arent)
Not a "True Catholic"? lol
> but don't practice their beliefs because its too hard to do so.
You practices practices, you believe beliefs. I believe the doctrines of the Church, but I don't practice all of the Sacraments.
> You've also claimed that Mormons are somehow more Christian than Jehovah's Witnesses, and refused to explain this belief. Do you know that Mormons believe in many gods?
You might want to reread this thread lol I said the opposite.
> You are? You claim to be a Catholic (which you arent)
Not a "True Catholic"? lol
> but don't practice their beliefs because its too hard to do so.
You practices practices, you believe beliefs. I believe the doctrines of the Church, but I don't practice all of the Sacraments.
> You've also claimed that Mormons are somehow more Christian than Jehovah's Witnesses, and refused to explain this belief. Do you know that Mormons believe in many gods?
You might want to reread this thread lol I said the opposite.
buspup !!x+kkCmnF4 (OP) replied with this 14 years ago, 4 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #371,299
@previous (G)
Before, you claimed that Romney was a Christian. I Guess thats because Romney was running. Also you arent a Catholic. I'm going to call a priest tomorrow, and explain this situation. Lets see what he says, about what makes a Catholic.
Before, you claimed that Romney was a Christian. I Guess thats because Romney was running. Also you arent a Catholic. I'm going to call a priest tomorrow, and explain this situation. Lets see what he says, about what makes a Catholic.
(Edited 2 minutes later.)
Anonymous G replied with this 14 years ago, 6 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #371,318
@previous (buspup !!x+kkCmnF4)
> Depends on how you are classifying it. Mormons aren't really Christian.
It's like saying anyone who submits is a Muslim, because that's what the word literally means. While that is true, they aren't really Muslims.
I don't claim to be a Catholic. I claim to believe in the truth of Catholic teachings and the validity of their sacraments and legitimacy of their authority.
> Depends on how you are classifying it. Mormons aren't really Christian.
It's like saying anyone who submits is a Muslim, because that's what the word literally means. While that is true, they aren't really Muslims.
I don't claim to be a Catholic. I claim to believe in the truth of Catholic teachings and the validity of their sacraments and legitimacy of their authority.
(Edited 32 seconds later.)
buspup !!x+kkCmnF4 (OP) replied with this 14 years ago, 5 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #371,324
Anonymous G replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #371,325
buspup !!x+kkCmnF4 (OP) replied with this 14 years ago, 7 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #371,329
@previous (G)
When I said that you would marry a fundie, you called yourself Catholic. keep track of your lies.
When I said that you would marry a fundie, you called yourself Catholic. keep track of your lies.
Anonymous G replied with this 14 years ago, 9 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #371,335
@previous (buspup !!x+kkCmnF4)
Yes, I hold Catholic beliefs. Someone who held different beliefs to me would not be a good fit.
Yes, I hold Catholic beliefs. Someone who held different beliefs to me would not be a good fit.