Topic: Nyquil What is it good for?
Anonymous A started this discussion 14 years ago #23,241
| Poll option | Votes | Percentage | Graph |
|---|---|---|---|
| Colds | - | 0% | |
| Flue | - | 0% | |
| Sexual Lubricant | 11 | 79% | |
| Sleep | 3 | 21% |
Meta !PARAdoxiHw joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 2 hours later[^] [v] #363,762
If I drink a lot it makes me kinda tired and I have weird dreams.
Anonymous C joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 11 seconds later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,763
Autism.
Also you spelled flu wrong.
Also you spelled flu wrong.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 14 years ago, 3 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,765
Anonymous C replied with this 14 years ago, 4 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,768
@previous (A)
Really? I've always seen it shortened as flu. In medical adverts and such, not just by people in general. Never seen anyone spell it as flue.
Really? I've always seen it shortened as flu. In medical adverts and such, not just by people in general. Never seen anyone spell it as flue.
Mark Twain (OP) replied with this 14 years ago, 2 hours later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,797
@previous (C)Me neither. That said I now give myself away.
"I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing. I have a correspondent whose letters are always a refreshment to me, there is such a breezy unfettered originality about his orthography. He always spells Kow with a large K. Now that is just as good as to spell it with a small one. It is better. It gives the imagination a broader field, a wider scope. It suggests to the mind a grand, vague, impressive new kind of a cow."
And in my rush to get some money making work
(Edited 40 seconds later.)
Anonymous C replied with this 14 years ago, 22 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,800
@previous (Mark Twain)
Well done. I suspected it was you, but I wasn't sure. You're generally at your least detectable when you make very short posts.
Well done. I suspected it was you, but I wasn't sure. You're generally at your least detectable when you make very short posts.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 14 years ago, 27 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,803
@previous (C)
10/10
I do no how to stay Stealth.
If pressed I can even do Killer Lettuce or dw text speek.
10/10
I do no how to stay Stealth.
If pressed I can even do Killer Lettuce or dw text speek.
Anonymous C replied with this 14 years ago, 5 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,805
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 14 years ago, 21 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,809
@previous (C)Oh I have yes indeed I have.
And they reply to me just as if I were them.
Working hard real hard to impress Direct TV again again - New manager each time they hand me a trouble ticket. I worked so hard today to talk them into letting me try again to fix something. Of course they said sure go ahead - Hit a button for approval to bill them and Silence silence - waited and sure enough 30 mins later they ask me if I have made progress - Hit the button asking for money - They said we paid you yesterday for nada you solved nothing lol.
Now I got the money and I put in my best guess fix - Not a do harm issue for me - FOR THEM a huge cause harm issue and Billion+ riding on the outcome. Now WE both wait to see if Satellite Telemetry shows what I want it to show. A Whole bunch of users of that Bird lost some TV today for a very short time. Rare for that to happen but shit happens.
Anonymous D joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 8 hours later, 14 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,873
Anonymous C replied with this 14 years ago, 5 minutes later, 15 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,879
Green joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 56 minutes later, 15 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,891
It's some good shit. Slurp up the bottle.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 14 years ago, 12 minutes later, 16 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,893
Green replied with this 14 years ago, 10 minutes later, 16 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,896
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 14 years ago, 21 minutes later, 16 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,897
Anonymous C replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 16 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,898
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 14 years ago, 13 minutes later, 16 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,901
@previous (C)
Yes you bet I did.
and I do. But in Stealth form and I am even surprised that a mod has yet to PM me about how I do it when I do it and even get a pile of replies for One of them (other poster)
Its not rocket science to role model another poster. In fact its so simple and I will not share how simple. Just hold on and wait a few days and look for one of them sans trip code or and yes yes even with trip code. Oooooooops
One will be major pissed at me if if if they find out it was me doing them
Yes you bet I did.
and I do. But in Stealth form and I am even surprised that a mod has yet to PM me about how I do it when I do it and even get a pile of replies for One of them (other poster)
Its not rocket science to role model another poster. In fact its so simple and I will not share how simple. Just hold on and wait a few days and look for one of them sans trip code or and yes yes even with trip code. Oooooooops
One will be major pissed at me if if if they find out it was me doing them
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 14 years ago, 35 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,911
Green replied with this 14 years ago, 5 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,914
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 14 years ago, 3 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,918
Green replied with this 14 years ago, 10 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,922
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 14 years ago, 3 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,923
Green replied with this 14 years ago, 4 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,926
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 14 years ago, 2 minutes later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,928
Green replied with this 14 years ago, 37 minutes later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,936
Ashe joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 1 hour later, 20 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,942
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 14 years ago, 2 minutes later, 20 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,944
Green replied with this 14 years ago, 5 minutes later, 20 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,947
Ashe replied with this 14 years ago, 2 minutes later, 20 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,948
@363,944 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
The Thalmor were already dicking the Empire. The Nords shall never again lose Skyrim! Skyrim for the Nords!
The Thalmor were already dicking the Empire. The Nords shall never again lose Skyrim! Skyrim for the Nords!
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 14 years ago, 6 minutes later, 20 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,949
@previous (Ashe)
But the Empire is the only thing stopping the Thalmor from utterly dicking Skyrim, as they are the only power in Tamriel than can legitimately challenge the Thalmor. The net result of Ulfric's plan would be an isolated Skyrim at the mercy of the Thalmor and an Empire that would more than likely be too weakened to stand up to them.
But the Empire is the only thing stopping the Thalmor from utterly dicking Skyrim, as they are the only power in Tamriel than can legitimately challenge the Thalmor. The net result of Ulfric's plan would be an isolated Skyrim at the mercy of the Thalmor and an Empire that would more than likely be too weakened to stand up to them.
Green replied with this 14 years ago, 14 minutes later, 20 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,950
Ashe replied with this 14 years ago, 1 hour later, 22 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,953
@363,949 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
> they are the only power in Tamriel than can legitimately challenge the Thalmor.
They already failed at doing that once and they were at the stage where they couldn't even stop one guy (me) from fucking their shit up in Skyrim. An independent Skyrim will also be well-received at Hammerfell (who are resentful of the Empire), which has an army which has already proved capable of defeating Thalmor and driving them out.
Edit - Also, in their report in the mission where you infiltrate the Thalmor embassy, the Thalmor themselves say that an Independent Skyrim would be extremely dangerous and likely to cause considerable damage to their cause.
Also, Mighty Talos will guide the Nords to victory.
> they are the only power in Tamriel than can legitimately challenge the Thalmor.
They already failed at doing that once and they were at the stage where they couldn't even stop one guy (me) from fucking their shit up in Skyrim. An independent Skyrim will also be well-received at Hammerfell (who are resentful of the Empire), which has an army which has already proved capable of defeating Thalmor and driving them out.
Edit - Also, in their report in the mission where you infiltrate the Thalmor embassy, the Thalmor themselves say that an Independent Skyrim would be extremely dangerous and likely to cause considerable damage to their cause.
Also, Mighty Talos will guide the Nords to victory.
(Edited 6 minutes later.)
Anonymous G joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 38 minutes later, 22 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,955
Ashe replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 22 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,956
Anonymous G replied with this 14 years ago, 26 minutes later, 23 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,957
Green replied with this 14 years ago, 14 minutes later, 23 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,960
Ashe replied with this 14 years ago, 6 minutes later, 23 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,961
@363,957 (G)
Britain is offshore from France. Therefore Britain belongs to France. Ask the Falklanders what nationality they are.
And that doesn't change the fact that Argentina invaded.
Britain is offshore from France. Therefore Britain belongs to France. Ask the Falklanders what nationality they are.
And that doesn't change the fact that Argentina invaded.
(Edited 2 minutes later.)
Anonymous G replied with this 14 years ago, 8 minutes later, 23 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,962
Anonymous G double-posted this 14 years ago, 5 minutes later, 23 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,963
@363,961 (Ashe)
> Britain is offshore from France. Therefore Britain belongs to France.
True. French to busy drinking wine, to bother with Redcoats.
> Britain is offshore from France. Therefore Britain belongs to France.
True. French to busy drinking wine, to bother with Redcoats.
Ashe replied with this 14 years ago, 4 minutes later, 23 hours after the original post[^] [v] #363,966
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 14 years ago, 23 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #363,971
@363,953 (Ashe)
> They already failed at doing that once
Actually, the Thalmor also failed. If the Thalmor felt they could win, they would have continued the war. Also note how the Thalmor failed to stop Hammerfell driving them out immediately after the Great War. They were significantly weakened by their war with the Empire.
> they couldn't even stop one guy (me) from fucking their shit up in Skyrim
And if you'd joined the Stormcloaks, it would have been the other way around. You character can also go around massacring bandit camps and slaying dragons alone. This is more of a game mechanic point that a story one.
> An independent Skyrim will also be well-received at Hammerfell (who are resentful of the Empire), which has an army which has already proved capable of defeating Thalmor and driving them out.
You make a good point here, but the Thalmor will have recovered since then. Hammerfell was fighting a Dominion weakened by the Great War. Unless the Empire co-operated, unlikely since Hammerfell and Skyrim would have both rebelled, they'd be mostly fighting on their own because of geographical locations.
> Edit - Also, in their report in the mission where you infiltrate the Thalmor embassy, the Thalmor themselves say that an Independent Skyrim would be extremely dangerous and likely to cause considerable damage to their cause.
That report is mote concerned with an Imperial victory than a Stormcloak one. You have to look at the bigger picture, the Thalmor want provinces to withdraw their support from the Empire, and the Empire to be weakened. An Empire busy spending men and resources on fighting the Stormcloaks is an ideal situation, but an independant Skyrim would still be better than an Imperial Skyrim. As long as Skyrim isn't under Imperial control, the Thalmor are benefiting from it.
> Also, Mighty Talos will guide the Nords to victory.
And he'll guide the Empire to victory too, once they're strong enough to tear up the White-Gold concordant and bring back Talos worship. The Imperials probably don't want Talos worship outlawed forever, it's a temporary measure so they can rebuild.
> They already failed at doing that once
Actually, the Thalmor also failed. If the Thalmor felt they could win, they would have continued the war. Also note how the Thalmor failed to stop Hammerfell driving them out immediately after the Great War. They were significantly weakened by their war with the Empire.
> they couldn't even stop one guy (me) from fucking their shit up in Skyrim
And if you'd joined the Stormcloaks, it would have been the other way around. You character can also go around massacring bandit camps and slaying dragons alone. This is more of a game mechanic point that a story one.
> An independent Skyrim will also be well-received at Hammerfell (who are resentful of the Empire), which has an army which has already proved capable of defeating Thalmor and driving them out.
You make a good point here, but the Thalmor will have recovered since then. Hammerfell was fighting a Dominion weakened by the Great War. Unless the Empire co-operated, unlikely since Hammerfell and Skyrim would have both rebelled, they'd be mostly fighting on their own because of geographical locations.
> Edit - Also, in their report in the mission where you infiltrate the Thalmor embassy, the Thalmor themselves say that an Independent Skyrim would be extremely dangerous and likely to cause considerable damage to their cause.
That report is mote concerned with an Imperial victory than a Stormcloak one. You have to look at the bigger picture, the Thalmor want provinces to withdraw their support from the Empire, and the Empire to be weakened. An Empire busy spending men and resources on fighting the Stormcloaks is an ideal situation, but an independant Skyrim would still be better than an Imperial Skyrim. As long as Skyrim isn't under Imperial control, the Thalmor are benefiting from it.
> Also, Mighty Talos will guide the Nords to victory.
And he'll guide the Empire to victory too, once they're strong enough to tear up the White-Gold concordant and bring back Talos worship. The Imperials probably don't want Talos worship outlawed forever, it's a temporary measure so they can rebuild.
(Edited 3 minutes later.)
Green replied with this 14 years ago, 5 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #363,972
Anonymous G replied with this 14 years ago, 8 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #363,975
@363,966 (Ashe)
> Britain is offshore from France. Therefore Britain belongs to France.
True. French to busy drinking wine, to bother with Pommy.
> Britain is offshore from France. Therefore Britain belongs to France.
True. French to busy drinking wine, to bother with Pommy.
Anonymous G double-posted this 14 years ago, 47 seconds later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #363,976
Green replied with this 14 years ago, 15 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #363,982
Ashe replied with this 14 years ago, 24 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #363,990
@363,971 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
> As long as Skyrim isn't under Imperial control, the Thalmor are benefiting from it.
Untrue. The Empire tolerates the Thalmor wandering around and disappearing people from their territory, this would not happen in Stormcloak Skyrim. The Empire is essentially a puppet state for the Aldmeri Dominion, and a Stormcloak-led government is no elves puppet. The Thalmor are not particularly thinking things through beyond the immediate ("The Empire being stronger is bad for us"), probably because they barely consider men to be sentient beings. When Ulfric takes Solitude, he makes a speech saying how the Empire is no longer the enemy; the Thalmor is. They begin preparing Skyrim, at that point, for *total war* with the Aldmeri Dominion in the inevitable upcoming invasion attempt. This is something the Empire is not doing and cannot do, because the Empire is broken at the most fundamental level. The emperor gave up. If he had any principle he would have rather fought to the very last man and died with a sword in his hands than submit to the high elves (who are pretty much objectively evil, and if they aren't they're doing a good job at pretending). The removal of Talos as a divine is a symbol of the death of the Empire's national pride. You can't win a war without national pride.
Actually when I was waiting for you to reply I was reading a thread with this same argument on Escapist forums, there was a really cool post there you might also enjoy, hang on I'll c+p it:
> This post is really long, so sorry about that, but this debate was just to fun and interesting to read to not make me want to contribute in some way. So here are some of my opinions and the arguments I use to support them, I hope it's readable and contributes something to this wonderful discussion.
> First to begin I'd like to use two good quotes I've heard again and again from various sources and in varied context. Those who keep silent consent and all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. The empire and those who support it are all complicit in every wrong perpetrated by the Thalmor against all the people they supposedly rule, thus their reign is unjust; furthermore, an evil act no matter if it is necessary is still evil. Taking away religious freedom can not be construed as anything else, even allowing the freedom to worship whatever you choose to be removed is evil and those who use or allow evil to support their rule are naturally tyrants and a tyrant's rule is never just. So those who even indirectly support the continuation of such evil tyranny are as responsible for the suffering of the oppressed as the oppressors are themselves. It is the obligation of every citizen to overthrow his government if it should turn against its' citizens.
> Secondly the white-gold concord was signed thirty years prior to the events in the game. So basically I as a Nord in the game am beholden to foreign hostile powers through no action of my own, because of a war someone, somewhere else lost, probably before I was even born.
> Third my homeland has been overrun by refugees of different species, who threaten our very way of life by challenging our traditions and bringing their own. No matter that such sentiments are inherently bigoted and discriminatory, it is a legitimate concern of a citizen of any state to worry for the health and welfare of said state and the sudden influx of so many immigrants could do nothing, but strain an already tense and uneasy populous, especially considering how traditionalist Nordic culture is. The Stormcloak movement screams fervent nationalism and cultural pride to me and as in most fantasy settings those two things are intrinsically tied to race and species. So in my view it's not so much that the Nords hate outsiders as it is that they want to preserve their way of life, which make no mistake is under very real threat from forces both internal and external, both hostile and benign.
> Fourth Ulfric Stormcloak is the leader of the rebellion, but the rebellion is not Ulfric Stormcloak. Regardless of his intentions or motivations, which in my opinion are never anywhere near fully fleshed out, he is the figurehead to which the Nords have chosen to rally. Whether or not he is an evil douche bag extraordinaire is of virtually no importance whatsoever, leaders rise and fall, but a just cause is always worth fighting for.
> Finally the Nords in Skyrim bear a strong resemblance to Klingons and other such fantasy warrior peoples and their ethos seems to revolve around strength, honor and tradition. Has the empire shown any of these attributes lately? It didn't have the strength to fight off the Thalmor, nor did it have the honor to respect the beliefs and practices of the people it rules and their respect for tradition seems only to extend as far as their desire for ease and expedience(they stole the Jagged Crown simply so Ulfric couldn't have it.) The empire as it is now acts more like a dying regime, fighting to hold on to its' power, waging a fruitless war to hold on to the last vestiges of past glories when it might very well be better served by diplomacy and negotiation. I think it is very telling that the empire attempted to seed parts of Hammerfell to the dominion to appease the invaders, entirely to save its' own skin and is now fighting a bitter war against half the population of another because its' people desire to control their own destiny, seems like history repeating itself and a prime example of why you shouldn't try to force someone else to pay the price for your failures. Does an empire united stand a better chance against the dominion? Maybe, but if its leaders aren't true to the people they govern you're only going to face further rebellion down the line. It seems to me like the empire has confused what is right with what is convenient. In the face of en existential threat like the Thalmor whose presumed goal is the complete and utter annihilation of mankind, you could seemingly justify anything, but I like to think that you have to question the leadership of a government whose code of morals never seems to impede its' progress.
> In addendum to my previous post I'd like to add that those who argue that the Stormcloak's rebellion weakens the empire and as such is unjust or morally and ethically unsupportable; are in my opinion arguing from a false premise. Arguing that, because the empire is the largest military power and any weakening of it constitutes an evil act because it reduces its' efficacy against the Thalmor, is the same as saying that might makes right and the ends justify the means, both positions which are morally and ethically, very difficult to support. Just because the empire has the best chance of defeating the Thalmor in no way gives them carte blanche to do whatever they please to protect their own power; that is the essence of tyranny. The only real argument I can see, is in regards as to to whether or not the Stormcloaks have a legitimate reason to rebel at all; which I believe they do and for my opinions as to why please see my lengthy post above.
Anyway I'm going to bed. Have a derpy hoof as a peace treaty, since Bethesda will probably troll us all and come up with some third option that nobody was expecting in TES VI. Like the wood elves staged a coup d'état or something and everything is owned by Argonians.
> As long as Skyrim isn't under Imperial control, the Thalmor are benefiting from it.
Untrue. The Empire tolerates the Thalmor wandering around and disappearing people from their territory, this would not happen in Stormcloak Skyrim. The Empire is essentially a puppet state for the Aldmeri Dominion, and a Stormcloak-led government is no elves puppet. The Thalmor are not particularly thinking things through beyond the immediate ("The Empire being stronger is bad for us"), probably because they barely consider men to be sentient beings. When Ulfric takes Solitude, he makes a speech saying how the Empire is no longer the enemy; the Thalmor is. They begin preparing Skyrim, at that point, for *total war* with the Aldmeri Dominion in the inevitable upcoming invasion attempt. This is something the Empire is not doing and cannot do, because the Empire is broken at the most fundamental level. The emperor gave up. If he had any principle he would have rather fought to the very last man and died with a sword in his hands than submit to the high elves (who are pretty much objectively evil, and if they aren't they're doing a good job at pretending). The removal of Talos as a divine is a symbol of the death of the Empire's national pride. You can't win a war without national pride.
Actually when I was waiting for you to reply I was reading a thread with this same argument on Escapist forums, there was a really cool post there you might also enjoy, hang on I'll c+p it:
> This post is really long, so sorry about that, but this debate was just to fun and interesting to read to not make me want to contribute in some way. So here are some of my opinions and the arguments I use to support them, I hope it's readable and contributes something to this wonderful discussion.
> First to begin I'd like to use two good quotes I've heard again and again from various sources and in varied context. Those who keep silent consent and all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. The empire and those who support it are all complicit in every wrong perpetrated by the Thalmor against all the people they supposedly rule, thus their reign is unjust; furthermore, an evil act no matter if it is necessary is still evil. Taking away religious freedom can not be construed as anything else, even allowing the freedom to worship whatever you choose to be removed is evil and those who use or allow evil to support their rule are naturally tyrants and a tyrant's rule is never just. So those who even indirectly support the continuation of such evil tyranny are as responsible for the suffering of the oppressed as the oppressors are themselves. It is the obligation of every citizen to overthrow his government if it should turn against its' citizens.
> Secondly the white-gold concord was signed thirty years prior to the events in the game. So basically I as a Nord in the game am beholden to foreign hostile powers through no action of my own, because of a war someone, somewhere else lost, probably before I was even born.
> Third my homeland has been overrun by refugees of different species, who threaten our very way of life by challenging our traditions and bringing their own. No matter that such sentiments are inherently bigoted and discriminatory, it is a legitimate concern of a citizen of any state to worry for the health and welfare of said state and the sudden influx of so many immigrants could do nothing, but strain an already tense and uneasy populous, especially considering how traditionalist Nordic culture is. The Stormcloak movement screams fervent nationalism and cultural pride to me and as in most fantasy settings those two things are intrinsically tied to race and species. So in my view it's not so much that the Nords hate outsiders as it is that they want to preserve their way of life, which make no mistake is under very real threat from forces both internal and external, both hostile and benign.
> Fourth Ulfric Stormcloak is the leader of the rebellion, but the rebellion is not Ulfric Stormcloak. Regardless of his intentions or motivations, which in my opinion are never anywhere near fully fleshed out, he is the figurehead to which the Nords have chosen to rally. Whether or not he is an evil douche bag extraordinaire is of virtually no importance whatsoever, leaders rise and fall, but a just cause is always worth fighting for.
> Finally the Nords in Skyrim bear a strong resemblance to Klingons and other such fantasy warrior peoples and their ethos seems to revolve around strength, honor and tradition. Has the empire shown any of these attributes lately? It didn't have the strength to fight off the Thalmor, nor did it have the honor to respect the beliefs and practices of the people it rules and their respect for tradition seems only to extend as far as their desire for ease and expedience(they stole the Jagged Crown simply so Ulfric couldn't have it.) The empire as it is now acts more like a dying regime, fighting to hold on to its' power, waging a fruitless war to hold on to the last vestiges of past glories when it might very well be better served by diplomacy and negotiation. I think it is very telling that the empire attempted to seed parts of Hammerfell to the dominion to appease the invaders, entirely to save its' own skin and is now fighting a bitter war against half the population of another because its' people desire to control their own destiny, seems like history repeating itself and a prime example of why you shouldn't try to force someone else to pay the price for your failures. Does an empire united stand a better chance against the dominion? Maybe, but if its leaders aren't true to the people they govern you're only going to face further rebellion down the line. It seems to me like the empire has confused what is right with what is convenient. In the face of en existential threat like the Thalmor whose presumed goal is the complete and utter annihilation of mankind, you could seemingly justify anything, but I like to think that you have to question the leadership of a government whose code of morals never seems to impede its' progress.
> In addendum to my previous post I'd like to add that those who argue that the Stormcloak's rebellion weakens the empire and as such is unjust or morally and ethically unsupportable; are in my opinion arguing from a false premise. Arguing that, because the empire is the largest military power and any weakening of it constitutes an evil act because it reduces its' efficacy against the Thalmor, is the same as saying that might makes right and the ends justify the means, both positions which are morally and ethically, very difficult to support. Just because the empire has the best chance of defeating the Thalmor in no way gives them carte blanche to do whatever they please to protect their own power; that is the essence of tyranny. The only real argument I can see, is in regards as to to whether or not the Stormcloaks have a legitimate reason to rebel at all; which I believe they do and for my opinions as to why please see my lengthy post above.
Anyway I'm going to bed. Have a derpy hoof as a peace treaty, since Bethesda will probably troll us all and come up with some third option that nobody was expecting in TES VI. Like the wood elves staged a coup d'état or something and everything is owned by Argonians.
Ashe double-posted this 14 years ago, 21 seconds later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #363,991
Anonymous H joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 4 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #364,042
what the fuck is going on in this thread i dont even
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 14 years ago, 1 hour later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #364,082
@363,990 (Ashe)
> Untrue. The Empire tolerates the Thalmor wandering around and disappearing people from their territory, this would not happen in Stormcloak Skyrim.
It's awful, but it's the concession the Empire had to make to survive. It was sign the concordant or risk self-destruction by carrying on the war, which they were in no shape to risk anyway.
> a Stormcloak-led government is no elves puppet.
Maybe not, but they would be alone against them. The Dominion has three provinces. The Empire would then only have two and be too weakened from losing the war in Skyrim to lend aid anyway. Hammerfell is too far away to lend immediate aid. A Stormcloak-led Skyrim would not be able to stand up to the Dominion. But they stay out now because they don't want an outright fight with the Empire. Better to chip away at their resources.
> The Thalmor are not particularly thinking things through beyond the immediate ("The Empire being stronger is bad for us")
Do they need to? If Skyrim leaves the Dominion actually has the most territory in all of Tamriel. A Tamriel that is not united is easy prey for the Thalmor.
> When Ulfric takes Solitude, he makes a speech saying how the Empire is no longer the enemy; the Thalmor is. They begin preparing Skyrim, at that point, for *total war* with the Aldmeri Dominion in the inevitable upcoming invasion attempt.
Credit where credit is due, he's good for saying that. But again, Skyrim cannot easily hold off the might of power which is roughly three times its size. It's at a considerable disadvantage on its own.
> The emperor gave up. If he had any principle he would have rather fought to the very last man and died with a sword in his hands than submit to the high elves
What would that have achieved? If he had carried on and lost, the Dominion would have been virtually unopposed. He's playing the long game here.
> The removal of Talos as a divine is a symbol of the death of the Empire's national pride. You can't win a war without national pride.
On the contrary, most Empire-affiliated NPCs in the game have lots of national pride. Also note that Rikke, a Legion Legate, still believes in Talos in secret. The Talos worship is just hiding until its safe to come out.
> First to begin I'd like to use two good quotes I've heard again and again from various sources and in varied context. Those who keep silent consent and all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. The empire and those who support it are all complicit in every wrong perpetrated by the Thalmor against all the people they supposedly rule, thus their reign is unjust; furthermore.
The Empire are not evil. Talk to any Legionaire and they hate the Thalmor. He's only looking at things in black and white.
> an evil act no matter if it is necessary is still evil
This idea comes up a few times, and I view it as logically flawed. He's arguing for an action which would feel good in the short-term but not the long-term. Turning on the Empire now results in the Dominion still being just a powerful and a weakened Empire. Ideaology is not a good reason to allow yourself to get destroyed by the Dominion a year or so down the line.
> It is the obligation of every citizen to overthrow his government if it should turn against its' citizens.
This just sounds like political rhetoric for its own sake. He does this a few other times throughout, so I won't highlight it again. My main problem is that he seems to somewhat lose sight of what's actually happening in favour of idealogical sentiments. Everything will be fine once the Empire is strong enough to fight the Thalmor again and hopefully win. It sucks but it's either wait until they're strong enough or risk falling apart in a war they're not ready for.
> So basically I as a Nord in the game am beholden to foreign hostile powers through no action of my own, because of a war someone, somewhere else lost, probably before I was even born.
He's taking a biased viewpoint here, not an objective one. Again, short-term gratification is not the answer.
> Third my homeland has been overrun by refugees of different species, who threaten our very way of life by challenging our traditions and bringing their own. No matter that such sentiments are inherently bigoted and discriminatory, it is a legitimate concern of a citizen of any state to worry for the health and welfare of said state and the sudden influx of so many immigrants could do nothing, but strain an already tense and uneasy populous, especially considering how traditionalist Nordic culture is. The Stormcloak movement screams fervent nationalism and cultural pride to me and as in most fantasy settings those two things are intrinsically tied to race and species. So in my view it's not so much that the Nords hate outsiders as it is that they want to preserve their way of life, which make no mistake is under very real threat from forces both internal and external, both hostile and benign.
Actually, the Stormcloak's underlying nationalism and racism is another great reason why they suck. Also, one major factor is that the influx of immigrants he's talking about are the Dark Elves. Their presence in Skyrim is understandable, given that their homeland was all but destroyed. It's mentioned that Morrowind is rebuilding, so the majority immigrants would leave again sooner or later. The Nords who are racist are being somewhat short-sighted and unempathetic, here.
> Fourth Ulfric Stormcloak is the leader of the rebellion, but the rebellion is not Ulfric Stormcloak. Regardless of his intentions or motivations, which in my opinion are never anywhere near fully fleshed out, he is the figurehead to which the Nords have chosen to rally. Whether or not he is an evil douche bag extraordinaire is of virtually no importance whatsoever, leaders rise and fall, but a just cause is always worth fighting for.
Actually, Ulfric is very relevant. Every other NPC who supports him rattles off some fantasy about not resting until he's High King. The Stormcloaks entire goal is to get Ulfric onto the high throne. If the Stormcloak won he would be ruling over Skyrim. So his character is in fact of immense importance. The writer basically acknowledges that Ulfric has major flaws, so I won't bother addressing those.
> inally the Nords in Skyrim bear a strong resemblance to Klingons and other such fantasy warrior peoples and their ethos seems to revolve around strength, honor and tradition. Has the empire shown any of these attributes lately? It didn't have the strength to fight off the Thalmor, nor did it have the honor to respect the beliefs and practices of the people it rules and their respect for tradition seems only to extend as far as their desire for ease and expedience
He doesn't seem to realise that the Empire risked destruction by carrying on the fight. The Empire dying of exhaustion in a war against the Thalmor would have fucked Tamriel right over. Inflexible, blind sentiments like tradition and honour have no place in a war of survivial.
> (they stole the Jagged Crown simply so Ulfric couldn't have it.)
Of course they did. They don't want him to get more support and win. He makes this sound like some petty, spiteful gesture. It was done to stop Herr Stormcloak getting any more credibility.
> The empire as it is now acts more like a dying regime, fighting to hold on to its' power, waging a fruitless war to hold on to the last vestiges of past glories when
And yet the Thalmor don't just simply charge in an destroy them, they're still trying to weaken the Empire indirectly. This shows that the Thalmor still fear the Empire.
> it might very well be better served by diplomacy and negotiation.
This actually seems like a good point, but negotiation with Ulfric is impossible. He's fueled by nationalism and refuses to see the bigger picture.
> I think it is very telling that the empire attempted to seed parts of Hammerfell to the dominion to appease the invaders, entirely to save its' own skin and is now fighting a bitter war against half the population of another because its' people desire to control their own destiny, seems like history repeating itself and a prime example of why you shouldn't try to force someone else to pay the price for your failures.
Another seemingly good point. But it's unlikely that the Empire would have signed the Concordant unless they absolutely had to. Hammerfell is at least still free of the Dominion, though, so might be useful in a future war against them.
> Does an empire united stand a better chance against the dominion? Maybe, but if its leaders aren't true to the people they govern you're only going to face further rebellion down the line.
Why? The Thalmor are the root problem. If they're eliminated then most of Skyrim's grievences are solved. Long-term benefits, bro.
> In addendum to my previous post I'd like to add that those who argue that the Stormcloak's rebellion weakens the empire and as such is unjust or morally and ethically unsupportable; are in my opinion arguing from a false premise. Arguing that, because the empire is the largest military power and any weakening of it constitutes an evil act because it reduces its' efficacy against the Thalmor, is the same as saying that might makes right and the ends justify the means, both positions which are morally and ethically, very difficult to support. Just because the empire has the best chance of defeating the Thalmor in no way gives them carte blanche to do whatever they please to protect their own power; that is the essence of tyranny. The only real argument I can see, is in regards as to to whether or not the Stormcloaks have a legitimate reason to rebel at all; which I believe they do and for my opinions as to why please see my lengthy post above.
I've said much the same before, but I'll sum it up here: fight the Thalmor anyway for "honour", get crushed. Thalmor are left virtualy unopposed and Tamriel is fucked. Suffer through their bullshit and recover enough to beat them. Thalmor are gone and everyone can have their normal lives back.
> Anyway I'm going to bed.
Why so early? It was like 7 something when you made this post!
> Bethesda will probably troll us all and come up with some third option that nobody was expecting in TES VI.
of course. And to be honest I'd like that, it'd be interesting.
> Like the wood elves staged a coup d'état or something and everything is owned by Argonians.
Nah. The wood elves are too busy being the Thalmor's battered, abused wife and the Argonians are too bust getting high on Hist sap to do anything.
Also, I did enjoy that post. Thanks.
@363,991 (Ashe)
It looks like a rabbit with one ear. :o
> Untrue. The Empire tolerates the Thalmor wandering around and disappearing people from their territory, this would not happen in Stormcloak Skyrim.
It's awful, but it's the concession the Empire had to make to survive. It was sign the concordant or risk self-destruction by carrying on the war, which they were in no shape to risk anyway.
> a Stormcloak-led government is no elves puppet.
Maybe not, but they would be alone against them. The Dominion has three provinces. The Empire would then only have two and be too weakened from losing the war in Skyrim to lend aid anyway. Hammerfell is too far away to lend immediate aid. A Stormcloak-led Skyrim would not be able to stand up to the Dominion. But they stay out now because they don't want an outright fight with the Empire. Better to chip away at their resources.
> The Thalmor are not particularly thinking things through beyond the immediate ("The Empire being stronger is bad for us")
Do they need to? If Skyrim leaves the Dominion actually has the most territory in all of Tamriel. A Tamriel that is not united is easy prey for the Thalmor.
> When Ulfric takes Solitude, he makes a speech saying how the Empire is no longer the enemy; the Thalmor is. They begin preparing Skyrim, at that point, for *total war* with the Aldmeri Dominion in the inevitable upcoming invasion attempt.
Credit where credit is due, he's good for saying that. But again, Skyrim cannot easily hold off the might of power which is roughly three times its size. It's at a considerable disadvantage on its own.
> The emperor gave up. If he had any principle he would have rather fought to the very last man and died with a sword in his hands than submit to the high elves
What would that have achieved? If he had carried on and lost, the Dominion would have been virtually unopposed. He's playing the long game here.
> The removal of Talos as a divine is a symbol of the death of the Empire's national pride. You can't win a war without national pride.
On the contrary, most Empire-affiliated NPCs in the game have lots of national pride. Also note that Rikke, a Legion Legate, still believes in Talos in secret. The Talos worship is just hiding until its safe to come out.
> First to begin I'd like to use two good quotes I've heard again and again from various sources and in varied context. Those who keep silent consent and all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. The empire and those who support it are all complicit in every wrong perpetrated by the Thalmor against all the people they supposedly rule, thus their reign is unjust; furthermore.
The Empire are not evil. Talk to any Legionaire and they hate the Thalmor. He's only looking at things in black and white.
> an evil act no matter if it is necessary is still evil
This idea comes up a few times, and I view it as logically flawed. He's arguing for an action which would feel good in the short-term but not the long-term. Turning on the Empire now results in the Dominion still being just a powerful and a weakened Empire. Ideaology is not a good reason to allow yourself to get destroyed by the Dominion a year or so down the line.
> It is the obligation of every citizen to overthrow his government if it should turn against its' citizens.
This just sounds like political rhetoric for its own sake. He does this a few other times throughout, so I won't highlight it again. My main problem is that he seems to somewhat lose sight of what's actually happening in favour of idealogical sentiments. Everything will be fine once the Empire is strong enough to fight the Thalmor again and hopefully win. It sucks but it's either wait until they're strong enough or risk falling apart in a war they're not ready for.
> So basically I as a Nord in the game am beholden to foreign hostile powers through no action of my own, because of a war someone, somewhere else lost, probably before I was even born.
He's taking a biased viewpoint here, not an objective one. Again, short-term gratification is not the answer.
> Third my homeland has been overrun by refugees of different species, who threaten our very way of life by challenging our traditions and bringing their own. No matter that such sentiments are inherently bigoted and discriminatory, it is a legitimate concern of a citizen of any state to worry for the health and welfare of said state and the sudden influx of so many immigrants could do nothing, but strain an already tense and uneasy populous, especially considering how traditionalist Nordic culture is. The Stormcloak movement screams fervent nationalism and cultural pride to me and as in most fantasy settings those two things are intrinsically tied to race and species. So in my view it's not so much that the Nords hate outsiders as it is that they want to preserve their way of life, which make no mistake is under very real threat from forces both internal and external, both hostile and benign.
Actually, the Stormcloak's underlying nationalism and racism is another great reason why they suck. Also, one major factor is that the influx of immigrants he's talking about are the Dark Elves. Their presence in Skyrim is understandable, given that their homeland was all but destroyed. It's mentioned that Morrowind is rebuilding, so the majority immigrants would leave again sooner or later. The Nords who are racist are being somewhat short-sighted and unempathetic, here.
> Fourth Ulfric Stormcloak is the leader of the rebellion, but the rebellion is not Ulfric Stormcloak. Regardless of his intentions or motivations, which in my opinion are never anywhere near fully fleshed out, he is the figurehead to which the Nords have chosen to rally. Whether or not he is an evil douche bag extraordinaire is of virtually no importance whatsoever, leaders rise and fall, but a just cause is always worth fighting for.
Actually, Ulfric is very relevant. Every other NPC who supports him rattles off some fantasy about not resting until he's High King. The Stormcloaks entire goal is to get Ulfric onto the high throne. If the Stormcloak won he would be ruling over Skyrim. So his character is in fact of immense importance. The writer basically acknowledges that Ulfric has major flaws, so I won't bother addressing those.
> inally the Nords in Skyrim bear a strong resemblance to Klingons and other such fantasy warrior peoples and their ethos seems to revolve around strength, honor and tradition. Has the empire shown any of these attributes lately? It didn't have the strength to fight off the Thalmor, nor did it have the honor to respect the beliefs and practices of the people it rules and their respect for tradition seems only to extend as far as their desire for ease and expedience
He doesn't seem to realise that the Empire risked destruction by carrying on the fight. The Empire dying of exhaustion in a war against the Thalmor would have fucked Tamriel right over. Inflexible, blind sentiments like tradition and honour have no place in a war of survivial.
> (they stole the Jagged Crown simply so Ulfric couldn't have it.)
Of course they did. They don't want him to get more support and win. He makes this sound like some petty, spiteful gesture. It was done to stop Herr Stormcloak getting any more credibility.
> The empire as it is now acts more like a dying regime, fighting to hold on to its' power, waging a fruitless war to hold on to the last vestiges of past glories when
And yet the Thalmor don't just simply charge in an destroy them, they're still trying to weaken the Empire indirectly. This shows that the Thalmor still fear the Empire.
> it might very well be better served by diplomacy and negotiation.
This actually seems like a good point, but negotiation with Ulfric is impossible. He's fueled by nationalism and refuses to see the bigger picture.
> I think it is very telling that the empire attempted to seed parts of Hammerfell to the dominion to appease the invaders, entirely to save its' own skin and is now fighting a bitter war against half the population of another because its' people desire to control their own destiny, seems like history repeating itself and a prime example of why you shouldn't try to force someone else to pay the price for your failures.
Another seemingly good point. But it's unlikely that the Empire would have signed the Concordant unless they absolutely had to. Hammerfell is at least still free of the Dominion, though, so might be useful in a future war against them.
> Does an empire united stand a better chance against the dominion? Maybe, but if its leaders aren't true to the people they govern you're only going to face further rebellion down the line.
Why? The Thalmor are the root problem. If they're eliminated then most of Skyrim's grievences are solved. Long-term benefits, bro.
> In addendum to my previous post I'd like to add that those who argue that the Stormcloak's rebellion weakens the empire and as such is unjust or morally and ethically unsupportable; are in my opinion arguing from a false premise. Arguing that, because the empire is the largest military power and any weakening of it constitutes an evil act because it reduces its' efficacy against the Thalmor, is the same as saying that might makes right and the ends justify the means, both positions which are morally and ethically, very difficult to support. Just because the empire has the best chance of defeating the Thalmor in no way gives them carte blanche to do whatever they please to protect their own power; that is the essence of tyranny. The only real argument I can see, is in regards as to to whether or not the Stormcloaks have a legitimate reason to rebel at all; which I believe they do and for my opinions as to why please see my lengthy post above.
I've said much the same before, but I'll sum it up here: fight the Thalmor anyway for "honour", get crushed. Thalmor are left virtualy unopposed and Tamriel is fucked. Suffer through their bullshit and recover enough to beat them. Thalmor are gone and everyone can have their normal lives back.
> Anyway I'm going to bed.
Why so early? It was like 7 something when you made this post!
> Bethesda will probably troll us all and come up with some third option that nobody was expecting in TES VI.
of course. And to be honest I'd like that, it'd be interesting.
> Like the wood elves staged a coup d'état or something and everything is owned by Argonians.
Nah. The wood elves are too busy being the Thalmor's battered, abused wife and the Argonians are too bust getting high on Hist sap to do anything.
Also, I did enjoy that post. Thanks.
@363,991 (Ashe)
It looks like a rabbit with one ear. :o
(Edited 6 minutes later.)
Anonymous H replied with this 14 years ago, 10 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #364,085
Ashe replied with this 14 years ago, 6 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #364,265
@364,082 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
> The Empire are not evil.
Bro all I got to say is I've never seen a Stormcloak torture dungeon. But I've seen an Empirical torture dungeon, right after I escaped their attempt to execute me without trial.
> The Empire are not evil.
Bro all I got to say is I've never seen a Stormcloak torture dungeon. But I've seen an Empirical torture dungeon, right after I escaped their attempt to execute me without trial.
Ashe double-posted this 14 years ago, 9 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #364,267
Oh also
> Credit where credit is due, he's good for saying that. But again, Skyrim cannot easily hold off the might of power which is roughly three times its size. It's at a considerable disadvantage on its own.
It could be easily done now they hold all the cities. There is no easy way for the Thalmor to invade and keep a steady supply chain going in Skyrim; all the land entrances use narrow mountain passes which are simple to defend and ambush in and the only realistic footstep for an invasion is Solitude, which would not be easily taken (and is being prepared for it as soon as it is Stormcloak). You have to remember that it would not be the same as the Great War; the Empire met them on the battlefield in traditional medieval combat. But the Stormcloaks already have experience with gorilla warfare.
Also check this out, I like this: http://www.gameskyrim.com/cannot-see-how-anyone-would-not-join-the-stormcloaks-t232525.html
> Credit where credit is due, he's good for saying that. But again, Skyrim cannot easily hold off the might of power which is roughly three times its size. It's at a considerable disadvantage on its own.
It could be easily done now they hold all the cities. There is no easy way for the Thalmor to invade and keep a steady supply chain going in Skyrim; all the land entrances use narrow mountain passes which are simple to defend and ambush in and the only realistic footstep for an invasion is Solitude, which would not be easily taken (and is being prepared for it as soon as it is Stormcloak). You have to remember that it would not be the same as the Great War; the Empire met them on the battlefield in traditional medieval combat. But the Stormcloaks already have experience with gorilla warfare.
Also check this out, I like this: http://www.gameskyrim.com/cannot-see-how-anyone-would-not-join-the-stormcloaks-t232525.html
(Edited 2 minutes later.)
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 14 years ago, 4 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #364,269
@364,265 (Ashe)
Torturing prisoners probably isn't as big a deal in Tamriel. Also, in Season Unending, both sides can be accused of committing a massacre. So they can both do bad things.
Also, on a somewhat related note, one of the Stormcloak Officers, forget which one, gives a whole speech about how they're going to kick all of the Elves out of Skyrim. He doesn't seem to be referring to the Thalmor specifically, just elves in general. Which was hella awkward because my character was an Elf.
Torturing prisoners probably isn't as big a deal in Tamriel. Also, in Season Unending, both sides can be accused of committing a massacre. So they can both do bad things.
Also, on a somewhat related note, one of the Stormcloak Officers, forget which one, gives a whole speech about how they're going to kick all of the Elves out of Skyrim. He doesn't seem to be referring to the Thalmor specifically, just elves in general. Which was hella awkward because my character was an Elf.
(Edited 49 seconds later.)
Ashe replied with this 14 years ago, 7 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #364,273
@previous (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
I didn't do that mission because I already liberated Skyrim.
Are you referring to Galmor Stone-Fist?
> Ulfric: Why do you fight for me?
> Galmor: I'll die before I allow elves to dictate the lives of men. Are we not one on this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A_5kBJduIg
I didn't do that mission because I already liberated Skyrim.
Are you referring to Galmor Stone-Fist?
> Ulfric: Why do you fight for me?
> Galmor: I'll die before I allow elves to dictate the lives of men. Are we not one on this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A_5kBJduIg
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 14 years ago, 5 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #364,279
@previous (Ashe)
It's a pretty fun mission. The dialogue alone makes it worth doing.
No, an officer in one of their camps. Or cities, depending on how the war goes. Galmar just seems to be talking about the Thalmor here, and lets you join if you're an Elf, so he's not quite as bad in that regard.
Also, why'd you go to bed so early, bud?
It's a pretty fun mission. The dialogue alone makes it worth doing.
No, an officer in one of their camps. Or cities, depending on how the war goes. Galmar just seems to be talking about the Thalmor here, and lets you join if you're an Elf, so he's not quite as bad in that regard.
Also, why'd you go to bed so early, bud?
(Edited 19 seconds later.)
doctor dreamworks md !jdTkvovFCQ joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 13 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #364,288
Anonymous J joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 18 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #364,294
@previous (doctor dreamworks md !jdTkvovFCQ)
do they teach you to put finger into dyke when it leaky?
do they teach you to put finger into dyke when it leaky?