Notice: You have been identified as a bot, so no internal UID will be assigned to you. If you are a real person messing with your useragent, you should change it back to something normal.
Anonymous E joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 14 hours later, 16 hours after the original post[^][v]#360,490
Waaaaaa. Smart people are refusing to accept straight materialism and the futility of life.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 35 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^][v]#360,495
I'm questioning how "sceptical" he was before. He's a neuroscientist, and yet he so easily dismisses the notion that it was a hallucination, which would have made sense given the state he was in.
Anonymous E replied with this 14 years ago, 30 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^][v]#360,502
@previous (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
You do realize he has scans of his own brain activity during the coma. Empirical data trumps speculation, does it not?
Anonymous G joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 2 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^][v]#360,503
@previous (E)
He'd need to release them for study by other scientists.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 14 years ago, 17 minutes later, 18 hours after the original post[^][v]#360,504
@360,502 (E)
How do brain scans prove anything? All they'd show is irregular brain activity, which is more indicative of a hallucination than proof of heaven.
Anonymous H joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 24 minutes later, 18 hours after the original post[^][v]#360,516
They say dreams (even really lpng feeling dreams) only last a few seconds. He likely dreampt it all up as he awoke, abd then upon reflecting on it his brain filled in "missing" information that made it feel like one experience.
Just like regular dreaming, near death dreaming happens really, really quickly.
Grēen replied with this 14 years ago, 3 hours later, 21 hours after the original post[^][v]#360,583
Fuck jēws
Anonymous E replied with this 14 years ago, 28 seconds later, 21 hours after the original post[^][v]#360,584
ITT: butthurt atheists who think simply being an atheist makes them smarter than a neurosurgeon. lolol.
Anonymous I joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 11 minutes later, 21 hours after the original post[^][v]#360,587
@previous (E) > makes them smarter than a neurosurgeon
Perhaps they are in some ways. The guy sounds pretty gullible.
Anonymous J joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 1 hour later, 23 hours after the original post[^][v]#360,608
@previous (I)
Common sense right? It'd be such a great concept but for the fact most people are wrong most of the time.
Ash !bbKEtchUp. joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 16 minutes later, 23 hours after the original post[^][v]#360,609
I think he is wrong but I enjoy his bow tie so I will give him benefit of the doubt if he actually comes up with proof
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 14 years ago, 4 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#360,734
@360,584 (E)
Please explain how brain scans prove the existence of an afterlife. Thanks.
Anonymous E replied with this 14 years ago, 6 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#360,769
@previous (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
They wouldn't, but they can prove the areas of the brain necessary for hallucination were inactive.
Anonymous I replied with this 14 years ago, 58 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#360,777
@previous (E) > they can prove the areas of the brain necessary for hallucination were inactive.
Actually, no. According to the reports, he received a CT scan (the scan he is pictured sitting in front of in the article) which uses layers of 2D x-ray images to create a 3D x-ray image of the head. Unlike fMRI or PET scans, which measure approximations of neural activity by tracking glucose uptake or blood flow, a CT scan gives information similar to an x-ray. The information about density in a CT scan can help detect tumors, lesions, blood clots, or trauma to the skull that may affect brain function, but it doesn't provide enough information to make any solid determination about brain activity.
Even supposing that tests were conducted that measured brain activity, there would only be enough information to say that activity was at a certain level during the scan. Doctors didn't have him wedged in a scanner for weeks during his entire coma. Detailed brain scans are generally expensive to run and require exposure to x-rays, radioactivity, or other dangers. Safer measures to monitor neural activity (like EEG or MEG) that you could run for an extended period of time only sense electrical charge or magnetic fields at the very outer surface of the brain, and there is not enough information from those scans to say with certainty that he is incapable of something like a hallucination.
Our knowledge of how neural activity correlates with conscious experience is still very incomplete. Even if you had a complete model of all brain activity from the moment he first lost consciousness all the way up to his recovery, you would still have a hard time arguing (much less "proving") that some conscious experience was impossible. I'm afraid there really is no concrete proof of anything about his experience here.
(Edited 7 minutes later.)
Anonymous E replied with this 14 years ago, 14 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#360,778
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 14 years ago, 12 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#360,788
@previous (E)
So you've given up on trying to prove that he saw heaven?
Anonymous E replied with this 14 years ago, 10 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#360,791
@previous (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
It's not my job to prove anything. The burden of proof is on the person making the positive claim. You hypothesize it was in fact a hallucination. I say prove it.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 14 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#360,794
@previous (E)
Actually, he's the one who's claiming to have seen heaven, so the burden of proof is on him. And he really doesn't have any strong proof.
Anonymous L joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 3 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#360,797
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 14 years ago, 10 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#360,803
@previous (L)
Jesus christ, Syntax. I said that a brain scan does not prove that heaven exists. These links have nothing to do with that.
(Edited 11 seconds later.)
Anonymous E replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#360,804
@360,794 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
But that's fucking wrong. He's relaying a entirely private experience and expressing his personal belief his consciousness was in "heaven."
You are saying since he has no proof he is either lying or it was in fact a hallucination. Those are assumptions, and as such constitute positive claims.
If you really wanted to sound smart you'd have accused this guy of jumping to conclusions rather than engage in jumping to conclusions yourself.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 14 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#360,806
@previous (E)
So you have given up trying to prove that he saw heaven, then?
Anonymous L replied with this 14 years ago, 23 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#360,811
@360,803 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx) > All they'd show is irregular brain activity,
I am not in disagree with you about proof of that wacko thinking he was in heaven hope you see the intentional pun there.
I was clue less how far brain scans have come until a recent Nova science now. They are learning a great deal about regular brain activity.
Today a victory of sorts for me and a fail and its only the start of my day after coming in from 30 min before break of dawn Surfing my Ocean a Blue. Brand new web cam installed yesterday for a friend who lives just seconds from where I live. Need to figure out some sloppy PERL I messed up several years ago so Del Mar cams and Cardiff don't keep screwing up with location.
Fail was removing all my cookies today just to avoid 99cents in cost to see New York Times - Salt and Sand in eyes and I hit remove all cookies instead of just nytimes cookie. First time ever I have fucked up like that. I cannot make that kind of mistrake when I send a command to a Satellite - Takes 5 minimum separate - each different codes, to make a single change.
Check out my new cam set up for the Surf shop. My house can be viewed in one of the shots.
Anonymous E replied with this 14 years ago, 9 seconds later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#360,812
@360,806 (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
There's nothing to give up. I'm not obligated to prove anything. I've made no positive claims aside from stating there were butthurt atheists ITT, and you've pretty much proven that already.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 14 years ago, 9 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#360,814
@previous (E)
I gotta be honest, this argument has been a disappointment. I was looking forward to a fun debate about wether heaven exists and if he really saw it. But all you're doing is rambling about semantics. :(
Anonymous E replied with this 14 years ago, 29 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#360,817
@previous (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
That's because you were looking for an arguement where there wasn't one. I wish I could give a fuck about your feelings, but I just don't.
Anonymous L replied with this 14 years ago, 12 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#360,821
Heaven Hell impossible to prove with a couple of exceptions.
Lots n Lots of Hell on Earth examples. Heaven? Ya betcha...Every time healthy well adjusted People have a world class Orgasm.
Many a downhill ski experience has been Heaven enough for me. When I say that I mean that. Mountain climbing moments where death was just milliseconds away YET I said to myself hey I am ready to go because I have already been in Heaven many a time. No BS on this.
Those bible made up Heavens Hells are good stories. Great works of fiction or in Anon E n Killer Lettuce case great works of Fraction.
doctor dreamworks md !jdTkvovFCQ joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 3 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#360,899