Topic: I have a love/hate relationship with Ayn Rand
Anonymous A started this discussion 14 years ago#21,163
I especially love her objections to statism. I feel she was well ahead of her time in recognizing the logical outcome of the state's monopoly on the legitimate use of force is ultimately Nazi/Stalinist bullshit.
But then I realize she is so completely ignorant to the power of subjective thought. And I laugh at her for being a dumb whore.
Anonymous B joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 14 minutes later[^][v]#338,521
"Contradictions do not exist. Whenever you think you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong."
-Ayn Rand
"If you are starting to have contractions & you are a male, you're ready for a sex modification"
-Yours truly
Postmortem !!Qe8ScDbX+ joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 33 minutes later, 47 minutes after the original post[^][v]#338,533
It's better to get behind concepts, and ideas, than it is to get behind people. Hardly anyone will have only ideas you agree with. I like Ayn Rand's concept of selfish morality, and the need for individual rights.
Anonymous D joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 29 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#338,543
she was just mad
Anonymous B replied with this 14 years ago, 10 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#338,547
I do like how Rand is such a polarizing figure. Usually people either adore her, and think she's a genius, or they think she was a crazy sociopath.
Anonymous D replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#338,554
@previous (Postmortem !!Qe8ScDbX+)
Such is the nature of any so radical a philosophy.
squeegee joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 46 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#338,560
She was a terrible author. Ham handed, plodding, one-dimensional characters and plots that only serve her preachy, biased, and closeminded opinions.
I can write a book where i'm right about everything too, but it'd end up being a useless, boring and unimportant tome.
Anonymous B replied with this 14 years ago, 21 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#338,564
@previous (squeegee)
Hey there is much about her I disagree with. Bottom line however is she sold millions and millions of books with two major screen plays-movies. She was into boy toys and was ultra anti homo. I hated her stance on American Indians because she approved of the land grab. However I really really really enjoyed her books.
Anonymous F joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 19 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#338,566
Her philosophy was as bad as her writing.
Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 36 seconds later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#338,567
@338,564 (B)
She's definitely popular, but in terms of how much she actually advanced the political debate, she was pretty weak. She combined the worst elements of a primitive Lockean conception of property combined with an extreme conservative fiscal policy that would make Milton Friedman blush (though if I recall correctly he was fond of her work).
I read Atlas Shrugged and enjoyed the story but definitely did not agree with her politics. Looking back on it, though, her characters were incredibly one dimensional. The successful capitalists were without exception portrayed positively whereas the state (particularly Wesley Mouch) were portrayed as cowards, sycophants and leeches.
Also the fact that we are supposed to sympathize with the main characters at the end of the book is really perverse because they make a horrendous decision and we are supposed to think that it was the right thing to do.
Other than that I have no opinion.
Anonymous F replied with this 14 years ago, 4 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#338,568
@previous (Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU) > I read Atlas Shrugged and enjoyed the story > I read Atlas Shrugged > enjoyed > Atlas Shrugged > enjoyed
You sicken me.
Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#338,570
@previous (F)
I was an angsty 16 year old pseudointellectual. I am much more mature, as I am now an angsty 21 year old pseudointellectual.
Anonymous B replied with this 14 years ago, 12 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#338,572
@338,567 (Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU)
Cannot disagree with your analysis. I found the reads captivating. Remember this was in the era pre block busting movies with special effects. The real difference in my opinion was-is, after I finished a read, I kept thinking about the stories and characters. So its not the same as going to a fantastic thriller of a movie. Like a great amusement park ride. You get on you get off and you really do not think about it after you get off that movie or ride.
Rand, her views to the Far out extreme To the very Limit. Tools she used as an author to grab me and hold me. Perhaps cheep tools, yet that is what an author is expected to do to hold ones interest. I would bet no critic ever said her novels were boring.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 14 years ago, 3 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#338,573
@338,564 (B)
While she made it clear that she didn't like homosexuality, she did say that her philosophy dictated that they should be allowed to do their thing without state interference. One of the few things I agree with her on.
Anonymous B replied with this 14 years ago, 18 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#338,578
@previous (Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx)
You made me hit wiki to verify, so yes you're correct.
Anonymous H joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 46 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^][v]#338,584
I don't remember properly - She is the one who said that capitalists ought to be able to do whatever they like in a fully free market with no state meddling whatsoever, right?
Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU replied with this 14 years ago, 5 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^][v]#338,585
@previous (H)
I can't remember if she was completely opposed in principle to government intervention in the marketplace, or if she thought that more often than not, government intervention was a bad thing. She was very far in the libertarian/anarchist camp though.
squeegee replied with this 14 years ago, 13 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^][v]#338,586
@previous (Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU)
She felt that a better class of people (of course she included herself in that group) knew better than anyone else what everyone ought do, and that the lesser classes of people should thank their lucky stars the rich let then have ANY job.
Anonymous B replied with this 14 years ago, 6 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^][v]#338,589
I put the question "Ayn rand government intervention in the marketplace" into Google and first hit came up with some stuff.
"Her books provided wide-ranging parables of "parasites," "looters" and "moochers" using the levers of government to steal the fruits of her heroes' labor. In the real world, however, Rand herself received Social Security payments and Medicare benefits under the name of Ann O'Connor (her husband was Frank O'Connor)."
"Rand also believed that the scientific consensus on the dangers of tobacco was a hoax. By 1974, the two-pack-a-day smoker, then 69, required surgery for lung cancer. And it was at that moment of vulnerability that she succumbed to the lure of collectivism."
(Edited 50 seconds later.)
Anonymous H replied with this 14 years ago, 9 hours later, 14 hours after the original post[^][v]#338,680
Anarcho-Capitalists are the worst. A capitalist marketplace without government intervention quickly results in cronyism, corporatism and anti-competitive practices.
Even now, the fact that the main goal in life is the pursuit of material objects rather than the improved lot of every man is destroying the environment, starving billions and makes almost everyone miserable. It would only be worse without the intervention of the government. I would rather see statism than anarcho-capitalism.
Anonymous I joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 26 minutes later, 14 hours after the original post[^][v]#338,681
Had some decent ideas, but was a terrible writer. Her stories are great if you're a conservative with insomnia.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 14 years ago, 1 day later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#338,876
@338,589 (B)
See, that's the thing about her. I feel she was unbalanced. The left half of her brain worked so well it's as if the right half had been lobotomized.