Minichan

Topic: Americans: Do you want universal health care?

Anonymous A started this discussion 14 years ago #20,775

We have a pretty decent health care system in Europe, yes it means more tax, but in exchange you get unlimited medical treatment no matter your circumstances. If you voted no, please explain why.
Poll option Votes Percentage Graph
Yes 16 94%
No 1 6%

Anonymous B joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 2 minutes later[^] [v] #334,487

Don't need it would not use it but others are not as fortunate. So voted yes

Anonymous C joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 39 seconds later, 3 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #334,488

inb4 walter

squeegee joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 37 seconds later, 3 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #334,490

Sure, as long as i'm not paying much for it and i get a large amount of services in return for free. Otherwise i'll just keep using bandaids and neosporin.

Anonymous B replied with this 14 years ago, 3 minutes later, 7 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #334,493

@previous (squeegee)
Reminds me. Neosporin. Was off to Australia for my 2nd stint working. Needed to add the stuff to first aid kit. Hit pharmacy and you are not allowed to use Antibiotics as a off the shelf item. Had to go to doctor and splain y needed. Got prescription for equivalent. Awful stuff really awful stuff. Australia has a Gov rule against Antibiotics in general.

Anonymous C replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 9 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #334,494

@previous (B)
10 mile prescription

Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 29 minutes later, 39 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #334,500

Yeah. I don't view government spending as inherently wasteful, and I think that my ability to get adequate medical care at a reasonable price is not something that should be left up to the market.

HaikerensGuide !0VegJ9Jl.Q joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 7 minutes later, 46 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #334,502

Yes. Why let the sick wander the streets spreading their sickness instead of having their sickness treated in a relatively safe environment? It's cheaper to treat everyone in the long run, so long as it is done correctly.

Anonymous C replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 47 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #334,504

@previous (HaikerensGuide !0VegJ9Jl.Q)
but niggers

HaikerensGuide !0VegJ9Jl.Q replied with this 14 years ago, 55 seconds later, 48 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #334,505

@previous (C)
Niggers that are sick should be in the hospital, rather than stay on the streets spreading disease in the crowded inner-city.

Anonymous G joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 49 seconds later, 49 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #334,506

@334,500 (Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU)
False dichotomy. Of course the state is inherently wasteful.

Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU replied with this 14 years ago, 4 minutes later, 54 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #334,508

@previous (G)
Well in a very narrow (and imo tautological) sense, I guess it is. What I should have said is that the state is no more inefficient than any private company which has heretofore tried to provide health care insurance to Americans.

As for the false dichotomy, the division between the Public sector and Private sector is pretty uncontroversial, at least in mainstream economic thought. Maybe some fringe economic schools reject that distinction but I think it is a correct one.

Anonymous C replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 55 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #334,510

@334,506 (G)
ad hominem

Anonymous G replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 57 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #334,511

@334,508 (Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU)
Your entire argument is based on statism. Listen to yourself! The state steals your liberties and freedom, therefore it does not care to look after your health.

squeegee replied with this 14 years ago, 12 seconds later, 57 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #334,512

@334,506 (G)
Nah, the free market is broken. We're left with a giant, confusing and out of control bubble machine that even the Gurus of finance can't seem to follow.

The only cure is socialism. God damned fat cats can't be trusted to keep from breaking the economy over and over and over.

What we need are regulations like we had in place before republicans decided to fix something that wasn't broken.

Anyway, redistribute that wealth, Obama. Rich people can't be trusted with money.

Anonymous C replied with this 14 years ago, 37 seconds later, 58 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #334,513

@334,511 (G)
strawman

Anonymous G replied with this 14 years ago, 42 seconds later, 59 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #334,514

@334,510 (C)
Learn the correct meaning of ad hominem, you dunce.

Anonymous H joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #334,516

@334,500 (Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU)
> don't view government spending as inherently wasteful
What are you, a communist?!

(Edited 12 seconds later.)

Anonymous G replied with this 14 years ago, 7 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #334,518

@334,512 (squeegee)
False dichotomy. Socialism is just another type of statism.

Open your eyes! The state is against you no matter what brand of statism you choose.

@334,513 (C)
Great rebuttal, you gave a coherent argument and gave evidence for all of your points.

Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #334,520

@334,511 (G)
You are decadent. I will coerce you into accepting the evils of statism with ad hominems.

Anonymous C replied with this 14 years ago, 17 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #334,522

@334,514 (G)
Ron Paul 2012

Anonymous H replied with this 14 years ago, 58 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #334,523

@334,511 (G)
Legalise decadence.

squeegee replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #334,526

@334,518 (G)
Lol, god you're a bag of dicks. Can't win an argument, patronize your opponent.

Anonymous C replied with this 14 years ago, 46 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #334,527

@previous (squeegee)
> HURR DURR YOU DIDN'T PROVIDE CITATIONS FOR THIS ARGUMENT

Anonymous G replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #334,529

Externally hosted image> mfw people thought I was mountainman

(Edited 26 seconds later.)

Anonymous C replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #334,531

@previous (G)
goddammit you are good

squeegee replied with this 14 years ago, 5 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #334,532

@334,527 (C)
> pretending this is your gov 201 class

You're only impressing yourself

(Edited 40 seconds later.)

Anonymous C replied with this 14 years ago, 41 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #334,534

@previous (squeegee)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sewer_pipe

dw !jdTkvovFCQ joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #334,538

Image went missing@334,529 (G)

Anonymous G replied with this 14 years ago, 11 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #334,545

@previous (dw !jdTkvovFCQ)
> mfw dreamworks thought I was Ash

@334,531 (C)
meh I just spouted his usual spiel

dw !jdTkvovFCQ replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #334,548

@previous (G)
goddamnit anonymous g
you are a riddle covered by a mystery entwisted in a secret

Anonymous J joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #334,551

@334,538 (dw !jdTkvovFCQ)

Nope I would have posted a rarity or rainbow dash or pinkie pie or twilight sparkle

dw !jdTkvovFCQ replied with this 14 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #334,553

Image went missing@previous (J)

Anonymous J replied with this 14 years ago, 53 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #334,554

@previous (dw !jdTkvovFCQ)

Ice to see youyou

dw !jdTkvovFCQ replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #334,556

@previous (J)
thee thy or i re: chrome do YOU know whether they removed the option to make the tab bar seperate like you could before but no longer

Anonymous J replied with this 14 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #334,559

@previous (dw !jdTkvovFCQ)

What do you mean by make it separate? Idk anyway

dw !jdTkvovFCQ replied with this 14 years ago, 3 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #334,562

@previous (J)
instead of having the tabs on the bar with the close and minimize buttons have it on a seperate thing like you can do in firefox

dw !jdTkvovFCQ double-posted this 14 years ago, 23 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,577

@334,559 (J)
also why are you not in germany yet?

Anonymous J replied with this 14 years ago, 5 seconds later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,578

@334,562 (dw !jdTkvovFCQ)

Oh, i dont know. that looks ugly anyway it's clearly better on the top (that's why firefox copied)

dw !jdTkvovFCQ replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,579

@previous (J)
yeah but i installed a custom shell and it doesnt really work now

dw !jdTkvovFCQ double-posted this 14 years ago, 58 seconds later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,580

Image went missing@334,578 (J)

Anonymous J replied with this 14 years ago, 48 seconds later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,581

@334,577 (dw !jdTkvovFCQ)

i leave on friday

Anonymous J double-posted this 14 years ago, 40 seconds later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,582

@334,579 (dw !jdTkvovFCQ)
@334,580 (dw !jdTkvovFCQ)

i dont know then

use the google help file document

dw !jdTkvovFCQ replied with this 14 years ago, 9 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,588

@334,581 (J)
@previous (J)
i am googling like crazy man

Anonymous K joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 1 hour later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,606

@334,487 (B)
Donate to charity hospitals, then.

Anonymous K double-posted this 14 years ago, 2 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,608

@334,500 (Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU)

> I don't view government spending as inherently wasteful
You're fucking retarded.

> and I think that my ability to get adequate medical care at a reasonable price is not something that should be left up to the market.
Translation: I do not wish to solve this issue through voluntary human interaction; instead I advocate force against those who oppose my claims of ownership upon their property and labor.

Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU replied with this 14 years ago, 2 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,613

@previous (K)
I'm glad that you read part of Locke's 2nd Treatise on Government, but just so you know, there has been considerable development on the issues he raised since then.

Anonymous K replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,614

@334,508 (Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU)
> Well in a very narrow (and imo tautological) sense, I guess it is. What I should have said is that the state is no more inefficient than any private company which has heretofore tried to provide health care insurance to Americans.
Except that it inherently is more inefficient, given the lack of competition borne from unlimited subsidy of state schemes. Private companies compete for consumers to get revenue; states take revenue by force.

> As for the false dichotomy, the division between the Public sector and Private sector is pretty uncontroversial, at least in mainstream economic thought. Maybe some fringe economic schools reject that distinction but I think it is a correct one.
The terms are meaningless. The true distinction is between the voluntary sphere and the coercive sphere.

Anonymous K double-posted this 14 years ago, 36 seconds later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,615

@334,613 (Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU)
I'm glad you read the Torah, but just so you know, there has been considerable development on the issues he raised since then.

Anonymous K triple-posted this 14 years ago, 46 seconds later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,616

@334,512 (squeegee)
> so much socialism the economy tanks
> WE NEED MORE SOCIALISM

lol progressives actually believe this

Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,617

@334,615 (K)
Whom?
@334,614 (K)
Austrian School isn't a toy bud, grow up and leave.

Anonymous C replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,618

mountainman delivers

Anonymous K replied with this 14 years ago, 42 seconds later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,619

@334,617 (Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU)
Moshe.

Animal spirits are far more "scientific" than a logical investigation of why humans act. lol keynesians actually believe this

Anonymous K double-posted this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,620

@334,618 (C)
No one else had, so I thought I'd better.

Anonymous C replied with this 14 years ago, 16 seconds later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,621

@previous (K)
kill yourself

Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,622

@334,619 (K)
Documentary hypothesis is also not a toy bud.

I have no idea what straw men you're setting up but i hope you give them a good intellectual smack-down!

Anonymous K replied with this 14 years ago, 46 seconds later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,623

@334,621 (C)
Continue making quality posts.

Anonymous K double-posted this 14 years ago, 3 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,624

@334,622 (Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU)
Actually, documentary theory really is a toy. It's a fun toy, and interesting, but there will almost certainly be a different mainstream theory in 50 years.
Obviously Moses didn't write them lol they're books about Moses.

Educate yourself even superficially on the subject so that we can tell jokes.

Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,625

@previous (K)
Ok, tell me a good joke.

squeegee !firstkPE1Q joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 35 seconds later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,626

meh, it'll all implode. healthcare will just be another collapsing industry.
What's funny is that the future bailout of the healthcare and insurance system will make the auto industry bailouts look like pocket change.

and when it happens in ten years you can turn to whoever is beside you and say, "squeegee said this shit would happen."

Anonymous C replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,627

@334,623 (K)
derp im an australian basement dweller playing intellectual libertarian circlejerk and i read stuff so im real smart

squeegee !firstkPE1Q replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,628

@previous (C)
he just regurgitates whatever he's read about most recently. you can tell when he's read something new because he comes here talking like he knew it already.

Anonymous K replied with this 14 years ago, 6 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,632

@334,625 (Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU)
Obama is a progressive.

Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU replied with this 14 years ago, 38 seconds later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,634

@previous (K)
Hahaha that's funny because I wish it were true!

Anonymous K replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,636

@334,628 (squeegee !firstkPE1Q)
> projecting

Anonymous K double-posted this 14 years ago, 27 seconds later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,637

@334,634 (Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU)
John Roberts lost the battle to win the war.

squeegee !firstkPE1Q replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,638

@334,632 (K)
regan killed progressives after LBJ shot themselves in the head.
we're left with their unguided offspring, and they are pussies.

squeegee !firstkPE1Q double-posted this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,639

@334,636 (K)
> misguided assumption

dw !jdTkvovFCQ replied with this 14 years ago, 41 seconds later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,640

@334,636 (K)
> Someone says something negative about me so they are projecting

Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU replied with this 14 years ago, 2 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,643

@334,637 (K)
You are a funny guy, Anon K. Don't quit your day job, though.

squeegee !firstkPE1Q replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,645

@previous (Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU)
we are insulting mountianman, right?

Anonymous C replied with this 14 years ago, 39 seconds later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,646

@334,636 (K)
> bolo tie

Anonymous K replied with this 14 years ago, 2 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,648

@334,640 (dw !jdTkvovFCQ)
Nope. If he said I was annoying that would be the pot calling the kettle black.

Anonymous M joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 2 hours later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,679

@334,608 (K)
That is because most humans will not "volunteer" to help and save the sick and impoverished. That is why they must be forced.

Burritosweat !!ZhyoeHTKh joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 8 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,684

@previous (M)
@previous (M)
Fuckoff matt

Anonymous K replied with this 14 years ago, 1 hour later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,699

@334,679 (M)
Most don't have to. Only some need to.

Anonymous M replied with this 14 years ago, 4 minutes later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,700

@previous (K)
But not enough do to take care of all of the sick, dying, and poor. That is my point. Unless there is a guaranteed system, some people will slip through the cracks.

Anonymous K replied with this 14 years ago, 4 minutes later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,701

@previous (M)
People will slip through the cracks even with a system.

Anonymous M replied with this 14 years ago, 5 minutes later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,704

@previous (K)
Maybe, but not because the system ignored them.

Anonymous K replied with this 14 years ago, 22 minutes later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,709

@previous (M)
By "the system" you mean the men with guns who stole money from productive people?

I would rather trust the doctors who work in charity hospitals, and the organizations which support them.

Anonymous O joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 22 minutes later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,710

I'm not against the idea at all. Yet my government can't even make Medicare a sustainable program. I'd be on board if I thought they were competent and trustworthy. Not buzzwords for politicians however.

Anonymous P joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 7 hours later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #334,772

I'd prefer universal cash, but I suppose health care is a good start.
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