Topic: george zimmerman and treyvon martin thread.
squeegee !firstkPE1Q started this discussion 14 years ago #18,727
ok, so i heard about this shooting the other day and didn't care until i heard this and became interested. So i've got all the details, i think, and have been paying attention to the news but i'm confused on one of the minor points.
did a hispanic guy shoot a nigger
or did a spick shoot a black guy?
I'm sure you can see the distinction.
I guess if the hispanic guy shot a nigger in self defense then he'll be found innocent, but if not then he's just some spick that shot a young black teen and he'll be found guilty.
But i don't like that, i like to base my decisions in this kind of thing purely on character before all the facts come out at the trial.
Anyway
all i know is that we wouldn't even be having this discussion if the nigger shot the spick.
what a world.
did a hispanic guy shoot a nigger
or did a spick shoot a black guy?
I'm sure you can see the distinction.
I guess if the hispanic guy shot a nigger in self defense then he'll be found innocent, but if not then he's just some spick that shot a young black teen and he'll be found guilty.
But i don't like that, i like to base my decisions in this kind of thing purely on character before all the facts come out at the trial.
Anyway
all i know is that we wouldn't even be having this discussion if the nigger shot the spick.
what a world.
| Poll option | Votes | Percentage | Graph |
|---|---|---|---|
| some spick shot as black kid | 1 | 20% | |
| a vaguely hispanic man shot a nigger | - | 0% | |
| either way they're both off the street. | 4 | 80% |
Anonymous B joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 7 minutes later[^] [v] #309,848
A paranoid douchebag starts shit he can't finish, kills someone and claims that he was attacked because hurr niggers
squeegee !firstkPE1Q (OP) replied with this 14 years ago, 4 minutes later, 11 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #309,849
@previous (B)
case close
also, i will add, that from the perspective of the kid he probably felt that HE was acting in self defense, and i would argue that he had more of a right to defend himself against the advancements of zimmerman than zimmerman had a right to defend himself against martin.
case close
also, i will add, that from the perspective of the kid he probably felt that HE was acting in self defense, and i would argue that he had more of a right to defend himself against the advancements of zimmerman than zimmerman had a right to defend himself against martin.
Anonymous C joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 5 minutes later, 17 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #309,851
@previous (squeegee !firstkPE1Q)
Zimmerman was in his car and following the kid. Police dispatcher said do not follow the kid and wait for police to arrive.
Zimmerman gets out of car against the advice of the dispatcher.
Bottom line is: IF Zimmerman gets off? He ends up as one hell of a target and he knows it. Looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life and staying out of public? No matter what happens he ends up in a state of JAIL. Real or self imposed.
Zimmerman was in his car and following the kid. Police dispatcher said do not follow the kid and wait for police to arrive.
Zimmerman gets out of car against the advice of the dispatcher.
Bottom line is: IF Zimmerman gets off? He ends up as one hell of a target and he knows it. Looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life and staying out of public? No matter what happens he ends up in a state of JAIL. Real or self imposed.
squeegee !firstkPE1Q (OP) replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 19 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #309,852
Anonymous C replied with this 14 years ago, 15 minutes later, 34 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #309,857
@previous (squeegee !firstkPE1Q)
She is of course White and accused of killing a white child.
I do agree that much may blow over after a long time depending on the court stuff. Casey will always end up with some dude covering her bills. Zimmerman will find it much harder to do the same.
She is of course White and accused of killing a white child.
I do agree that much may blow over after a long time depending on the court stuff. Casey will always end up with some dude covering her bills. Zimmerman will find it much harder to do the same.
Anonymous D joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 2 hours later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #309,893
@previous (C)
This is America you pussies. If Martin attacked Zimmerman, Zimmerman had every right to blow him away. If you've got a problem being shot at, don't fuck with people in America. Pretty simple really.
This is America you pussies. If Martin attacked Zimmerman, Zimmerman had every right to blow him away. If you've got a problem being shot at, don't fuck with people in America. Pretty simple really.
Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4 joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 9 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #309,900
@previous (D)
Pretty much this. According to an eye-witness, Zimmerman was on the ground crying for help with a bloody nose when he shot him. He's still not gonna get off scott free though, because the kid was unarmed and not really a threat to his life, and you can't use deadly force when your life is not threatened. Zimmerman will have to prove in court that he felt his life was threatened by an unarmed 17-year-old boy to justify shooting him.
Pretty much this. According to an eye-witness, Zimmerman was on the ground crying for help with a bloody nose when he shot him. He's still not gonna get off scott free though, because the kid was unarmed and not really a threat to his life, and you can't use deadly force when your life is not threatened. Zimmerman will have to prove in court that he felt his life was threatened by an unarmed 17-year-old boy to justify shooting him.
squeegee !firstkPE1Q (OP) replied with this 14 years ago, 12 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #309,906
@previous (Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4)
well, casey anthony felt her life was threatened by a 3 year old. but it's really more a matter of how you argue it than what your intentions really were.
well, casey anthony felt her life was threatened by a 3 year old. but it's really more a matter of how you argue it than what your intentions really were.
Anonymous F joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 2 hours later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #309,918
@309,851 (C)
Hi, I see you have listened the biased media reports.
The dispatcher told him "We don't need you to do that." she never instructed him not to do it.
Zimmerman prevented a few black teenagers from robbing a neighbors home a month before this. You can't blame him for profiling. Our brains naturally look for patterns. He was probably looking to relive the high of catching bad guys. He was overly enthuised. He was wrong. However, he certainly did not committ 2nd degree murder, and it is entirely likely that from his perspective, he was acting in self defense.
The police report showed he had injuries. He outweighed the kid by a little, but the kid was much taller.
The media has been extremely prejudiced in its reporting. It doesn't help that most blacks are of below average intelligence (I heard a woman say tonight "it was nothing less than an assassination.")
According to what the police witnessEd and eye witness accounts (which are unreliable and many of the witnesses didn't actually witness the struggle).
A friend was on the phone with trayvon and claims he had attempted to elude Zimmerman and Zimmerman caught back up to him.
It is not illegal to watch or follow someone for non-malicious purposes. He attempted to question the teen "the girl heard someone say "what are you doing here?" before the phone cut out.
It's possible they know they had no case (there is no actual proof of racial bias, that's just blacks overreacting as usual, like when they rioted and attacked people because police beat a reckless drug addict) which is why he was not originally arrested and why he has been charged with murder 2 and not manslaughter. They know he is innocent and they can't make the case for murder 2. However, get a majority black jury and he is fucked.
People of African descent are violet at quick to anger. Its possible Zimmerman was attacked simply because he was questioning the teen.
Hi, I see you have listened the biased media reports.
The dispatcher told him "We don't need you to do that." she never instructed him not to do it.
Zimmerman prevented a few black teenagers from robbing a neighbors home a month before this. You can't blame him for profiling. Our brains naturally look for patterns. He was probably looking to relive the high of catching bad guys. He was overly enthuised. He was wrong. However, he certainly did not committ 2nd degree murder, and it is entirely likely that from his perspective, he was acting in self defense.
The police report showed he had injuries. He outweighed the kid by a little, but the kid was much taller.
The media has been extremely prejudiced in its reporting. It doesn't help that most blacks are of below average intelligence (I heard a woman say tonight "it was nothing less than an assassination.")
According to what the police witnessEd and eye witness accounts (which are unreliable and many of the witnesses didn't actually witness the struggle).
A friend was on the phone with trayvon and claims he had attempted to elude Zimmerman and Zimmerman caught back up to him.
It is not illegal to watch or follow someone for non-malicious purposes. He attempted to question the teen "the girl heard someone say "what are you doing here?" before the phone cut out.
It's possible they know they had no case (there is no actual proof of racial bias, that's just blacks overreacting as usual, like when they rioted and attacked people because police beat a reckless drug addict) which is why he was not originally arrested and why he has been charged with murder 2 and not manslaughter. They know he is innocent and they can't make the case for murder 2. However, get a majority black jury and he is fucked.
People of African descent are violet at quick to anger. Its possible Zimmerman was attacked simply because he was questioning the teen.
(Edited 3 minutes later.)
Anonymous F double-posted this 14 years ago, 10 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #309,920
It's important to note the calls for violence from the black community.
Trayvon's mother even admits that given the evidence, it was a tragic accident.
Without knowing the evidence, I think Zimmerman is clearly at fault and should be charged with manslaughter, but unfortunately I dont think there is enough evidence to support any charges.
Trayvon's mother even admits that given the evidence, it was a tragic accident.
Without knowing the evidence, I think Zimmerman is clearly at fault and should be charged with manslaughter, but unfortunately I dont think there is enough evidence to support any charges.
elmo joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 6 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #309,923
I hate the "guilty until proven innocent"
I think that second degree murder is too much and may lose traytray the case, manslaughter might have been better
I think that second degree murder is too much and may lose traytray the case, manslaughter might have been better
Anonymous D replied with this 14 years ago, 10 hours later, 16 hours after the original post[^] [v] #310,039
@309,900 (Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4)
If Martin indeed attempted to get the gun away from him, then certainly Zimmerman would be justified in thinking his life was in danger. If they find residue on Martin's hand I don't see how they can possibly make a case against self-defense.
My bet is the prosecutor is overcharging Zimmerman in the hopes he'll accept a plea deal. Not really in Zimmerman's best interest, but certainly in the best interest of political goons.
If Martin indeed attempted to get the gun away from him, then certainly Zimmerman would be justified in thinking his life was in danger. If they find residue on Martin's hand I don't see how they can possibly make a case against self-defense.
My bet is the prosecutor is overcharging Zimmerman in the hopes he'll accept a plea deal. Not really in Zimmerman's best interest, but certainly in the best interest of political goons.
(Edited 15 seconds later.)
squeegee !firstkPE1Q joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 50 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #310,046
@previous (D)
I dunno, the black kid had a right to be there. From his POV some spick was stalking him through his residence and cornered him. Sorry, if someome is following me and corners me, then i feel MY life is in danger. I would, given my personal history, likely physically defend myself. I'da punched that spick, beat his ass, tried to take his gun, and shoot the fucker. Especially if i'd already run and the guy tracked me down.
Fuck that. Unless you're a cop don't step to someone like you're going to do something. But, this wouldn't have happened to me because i'm white and zimmerman only profiles blacks.
I dunno, the black kid had a right to be there. From his POV some spick was stalking him through his residence and cornered him. Sorry, if someome is following me and corners me, then i feel MY life is in danger. I would, given my personal history, likely physically defend myself. I'da punched that spick, beat his ass, tried to take his gun, and shoot the fucker. Especially if i'd already run and the guy tracked me down.
Fuck that. Unless you're a cop don't step to someone like you're going to do something. But, this wouldn't have happened to me because i'm white and zimmerman only profiles blacks.
Anonymous D replied with this 14 years ago, 20 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #310,048
@previous (squeegee !firstkPE1Q)
The point was made with respect to Zimmerman's defense under the stand your ground law. It's a much different scenario than if the kid had run away and was shot in the back.
> Fuck that. Unless you're a cop don't step to someone like you're going to do something. But, this wouldn't have happened to me because i'm white and zimmerman only profiles blacks.
It's that kind of attitude that's making America into a police state. Saying the general public should have no right to proactively defend themselves is absurd. What's next? Are we going to charge people with a crime for putting out fires in their homes rather than calling the authorities?
And spare me the racial BS. The media isn't even allowing Zimmerman to be Hispanic now. And you know why? It's because white guilt has made whites into guillable retards, while the Hispanic community knows full well what's up. Unlike whites, spics actually have to live next door to blacks so they know the reality all too well.
But of course, he must only be white in this case for the blacks to feel maximum outrage.
The point was made with respect to Zimmerman's defense under the stand your ground law. It's a much different scenario than if the kid had run away and was shot in the back.
> Fuck that. Unless you're a cop don't step to someone like you're going to do something. But, this wouldn't have happened to me because i'm white and zimmerman only profiles blacks.
It's that kind of attitude that's making America into a police state. Saying the general public should have no right to proactively defend themselves is absurd. What's next? Are we going to charge people with a crime for putting out fires in their homes rather than calling the authorities?
And spare me the racial BS. The media isn't even allowing Zimmerman to be Hispanic now. And you know why? It's because white guilt has made whites into guillable retards, while the Hispanic community knows full well what's up. Unlike whites, spics actually have to live next door to blacks so they know the reality all too well.
But of course, he must only be white in this case for the blacks to feel maximum outrage.
Anonymous C replied with this 14 years ago, 3 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #310,050
@310,039 (D)
From Martin's perspective there is a skin head Latino following him in a car. Martin calls his gf and is afraid. She says run he says no I will continue to walk.
Skin head Latino gets out of car and at some point confronts Martin. Martin has Ice tea and skittles in his hands.
IF Latino walks from this case....He will be looking over his shoulder the rest of his life.
From Martin's perspective there is a skin head Latino following him in a car. Martin calls his gf and is afraid. She says run he says no I will continue to walk.
Skin head Latino gets out of car and at some point confronts Martin. Martin has Ice tea and skittles in his hands.
IF Latino walks from this case....He will be looking over his shoulder the rest of his life.
Anonymous D replied with this 14 years ago, 18 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #310,055
@previous (C)
Do people like you even hear yourselves? You cannot argue profiling is wrong and immediately turn around and say a black is justified in fearing a "skinhead" on the basis of appearance. That too is profiling.
Do people like you even hear yourselves? You cannot argue profiling is wrong and immediately turn around and say a black is justified in fearing a "skinhead" on the basis of appearance. That too is profiling.
Anonymous C replied with this 14 years ago, 19 minutes later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #310,058
@previous (D)
Of course its mutual profiling. Hoodie vs Skinhead. The huge difference is that one is safe in his car and the other one is on the street.
Skin head exits the car loaded for kill and does just exactly that.
Of course its mutual profiling. Hoodie vs Skinhead. The huge difference is that one is safe in his car and the other one is on the street.
Skin head exits the car loaded for kill and does just exactly that.
Anonymous D replied with this 14 years ago, 10 minutes later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #310,061
@previous (C)
Following someone is not a crime unless and until they have a restraining order against you. I don't buy that he felt all that threatened. Why call his girlfriend? Call the fucking police.
Following someone is not a crime unless and until they have a restraining order against you. I don't buy that he felt all that threatened. Why call his girlfriend? Call the fucking police.
squeegee !firstkPE1Q replied with this 14 years ago, 4 minutes later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #310,063
@310,048 (D)
Where did i say people don't have a right to defend themselves. I said martin had a right to defend himself against zimmerman.
Zimmerman decided to act like an agent of the law and harass an innocent citizen who had a right to defend himself againt harm.
Zimmerman was playing Cops and Robbers and fucked up. martin was just trying to get home.
Where did i say people don't have a right to defend themselves. I said martin had a right to defend himself against zimmerman.
Zimmerman decided to act like an agent of the law and harass an innocent citizen who had a right to defend himself againt harm.
Zimmerman was playing Cops and Robbers and fucked up. martin was just trying to get home.
Anonymous C replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 18 hours after the original post[^] [v] #310,064
@previous (squeegee !firstkPE1Q)
10/10
@310,061 (D)
The law told him on the phone NOT to follow the guy. Zimmerman ignored the request. Zimmerman ended up STALKING Martin.
There are laws against STALKING.
10/10
@310,061 (D)
The law told him on the phone NOT to follow the guy. Zimmerman ignored the request. Zimmerman ended up STALKING Martin.
There are laws against STALKING.
(Edited 3 minutes later.)
dw joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 1 hour later, 19 hours after the original post[^] [v] #310,095
Anonymous C replied with this 14 years ago, 4 minutes later, 19 hours after the original post[^] [v] #310,097
squeegee !firstkPE1Q replied with this 14 years ago, 45 minutes later, 20 hours after the original post[^] [v] #310,101
Also i would like to know the history of the firearm. When did he aquire it? Was this before or after he thwarted a robbery? Was he armed at that time?
I'ma see if the wiki has any details. Inb4 glock.
I'ma see if the wiki has any details. Inb4 glock.
Anonymous J joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 6 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #310,154
squeegee !firstkPE1Q (OP) replied with this 14 years ago, 52 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #310,171
Anonymous B replied with this 14 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #310,172
ITT: hilariously bad attempts to justify murder
kook !nH6RAuX8mo joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 47 seconds later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #310,173
dw replied with this 14 years ago, 8 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #310,217
kook !nH6RAuX8mo replied with this 14 years ago, 2 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #310,252
Anonymous C replied with this 14 years ago, 2 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #310,272
@310,154 (J)
1800's - English and American cookbooks shows us that tea has been served cold at least since the early nineteenth century, when cold green tea punches, that were heavily spiked with liquor, were popularized. The oldest recipes in print are made with green tea and not black tea and were called punches. The tea punches went by names such as Regent's Punch, named after George IV, the English prince regent between 1811 until 1820, and king from 1820 to 1830.
Skittles were first made commercially in 1974 by a British company. They were first introduced in North America in 1979 as an import confectionery. In 1982, domestic production of Skittles began in the United States.
1800's - English and American cookbooks shows us that tea has been served cold at least since the early nineteenth century, when cold green tea punches, that were heavily spiked with liquor, were popularized. The oldest recipes in print are made with green tea and not black tea and were called punches. The tea punches went by names such as Regent's Punch, named after George IV, the English prince regent between 1811 until 1820, and king from 1820 to 1830.
Skittles were first made commercially in 1974 by a British company. They were first introduced in North America in 1979 as an import confectionery. In 1982, domestic production of Skittles began in the United States.
squeegee !firstkPE1Q (OP) replied with this 14 years ago, 4 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #310,305
@previous (C)turns out it was a pretty mediocre Kel-Tec PF-9 9mm semi-automatic pistol
http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/03/28/george-zimmermans-gun-a-popular-choice-for-concealed-carry/
squeegee !firstkPE1Q (OP) double-posted this 14 years ago, 6 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #310,307
if he was going concealed carry he should've gotten one with styleBroseph !!fxnDb+Ve4 replied with this 14 years ago, 2 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #310,329
beckyderp !CaTLdYmooc joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 2 hours later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #310,348
@310,039 (D)
But it also matters that Zimmerman (allegedly) provoked the fight. In Florida, this means that he may not be able to claim self-defense, unless he clearly attempted to withdraw from the fight after force was used against him. If it was shown he provoked the fight, stand-your-ground will NOT apply.
The 911 call is really devastating to his claim of self-defense. This isn't what the self-defense laws were designed for.
But it also matters that Zimmerman (allegedly) provoked the fight. In Florida, this means that he may not be able to claim self-defense, unless he clearly attempted to withdraw from the fight after force was used against him. If it was shown he provoked the fight, stand-your-ground will NOT apply.
The 911 call is really devastating to his claim of self-defense. This isn't what the self-defense laws were designed for.
(Edited 2 minutes later.)
Anonymous J replied with this 14 years ago, 1 hour later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #310,353
@previous (beckyderp !CaTLdYmooc)
I used to think that but questioning someone or even following them isn't really aggression, or the initiation of violence. It's difficult, though, because it was probably reasonable for traytray to assume that zimmo was about to initiate violence.
idk anymore
I used to think that but questioning someone or even following them isn't really aggression, or the initiation of violence. It's difficult, though, because it was probably reasonable for traytray to assume that zimmo was about to initiate violence.
idk anymore
beckyderp !CaTLdYmooc replied with this 14 years ago, 19 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #310,356
Anonymous C replied with this 14 years ago, 15 hours later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #310,468
@310,353 (J)
The big IF will be IF both cell phones have GPS. The exact route of each and speed of movement.
The big IF will be IF both cell phones have GPS. The exact route of each and speed of movement.
Anonymous J replied with this 14 years ago, 3 hours later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #310,498
Anonymous D replied with this 14 years ago, 13 hours later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #310,645
@310,353 (J)
Sure, but charging him with murder as opposed to manslaughter implies he intended to kill the kid. I don't buy it. And it's the same fuck up prosecutors made in the Casey Anthony case. Where's the motive? Murder requires a motive people.
Course, Casey's hot, and hot women, by mere virtue of their existence are never guilty. But if Zimmerman were OJ Simpson, he'd get an all Hispanic jury, and there'd be no question of his getting an acquittal. Too bad he's not rich I guess.
Sure, but charging him with murder as opposed to manslaughter implies he intended to kill the kid. I don't buy it. And it's the same fuck up prosecutors made in the Casey Anthony case. Where's the motive? Murder requires a motive people.
Course, Casey's hot, and hot women, by mere virtue of their existence are never guilty. But if Zimmerman were OJ Simpson, he'd get an all Hispanic jury, and there'd be no question of his getting an acquittal. Too bad he's not rich I guess.
(Edited 1 minute later.)
Anonymous J replied with this 14 years ago, 1 hour later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #310,648
@previous (D)
Why are you talking about Zimmerman is WHITE guess you can't see racism when you're WHITE
Why are you talking about Zimmerman is WHITE guess you can't see racism when you're WHITE
squeegee !firstkPE1Q replied with this 14 years ago, 1 hour later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #310,671
@310,645 (D)
Substitute intent for motive. Zimmerman was carrying a gun and placed himself in a dangerous situation against the reccommendations of police. What did he think would happen, and how did he intend on defending himself.
He apparently wasn't even remotely capable of defending himself without firearms (re: screaming for help like a punk bitch, on the ground getting whooped by a teenager.)
He purposefully went into a dangerous situation with the intent of using a firearm to defend himself, and unfortunately, that's not how self defense works.
Substitute intent for motive. Zimmerman was carrying a gun and placed himself in a dangerous situation against the reccommendations of police. What did he think would happen, and how did he intend on defending himself.
He apparently wasn't even remotely capable of defending himself without firearms (re: screaming for help like a punk bitch, on the ground getting whooped by a teenager.)
He purposefully went into a dangerous situation with the intent of using a firearm to defend himself, and unfortunately, that's not how self defense works.
Anonymous C replied with this 14 years ago, 1 hour later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #310,692
@310,645 (D)
> Where's the motive? Murder requires a motive people.
Skin head Latino hunts down a black man.
"Hate crimes in Los Angeles County rose to their highest level in five years last year, led by attacks between Latinos and blacks, officials said Thursday.
The annual report by the Los Angeles County Human Relations Commission showed hate crimes rose by 28%, to 763, with vandalism and assault leading the way. (2008)
> Where's the motive? Murder requires a motive people.
Skin head Latino hunts down a black man.
"Hate crimes in Los Angeles County rose to their highest level in five years last year, led by attacks between Latinos and blacks, officials said Thursday.
The annual report by the Los Angeles County Human Relations Commission showed hate crimes rose by 28%, to 763, with vandalism and assault leading the way. (2008)
Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4 replied with this 14 years ago, 1 hour later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #310,702
@previous (C)
> skin head
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinhead
Most skinheads are not racist. There are a lot of Nazi/racist skinheads, but skinhead does not mean racist.
> skin head
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinhead
Most skinheads are not racist. There are a lot of Nazi/racist skinheads, but skinhead does not mean racist.
Anonymous C replied with this 14 years ago, 10 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #310,706
@previous (Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4)
You may have missed this in the fast read you gave the wiki
> Since then, however, attitudes toward race and politics have become factors by which some skinheads align themselves
Actually, a Latino skinhead did appear on the Oprah show as part of a white racist American skinhead group.
Another Latino skinhead on the Geraldo show. Said he was accepted into an racist group with no problems whatsoever.
You may have missed this in the fast read you gave the wiki
> Since then, however, attitudes toward race and politics have become factors by which some skinheads align themselves
Actually, a Latino skinhead did appear on the Oprah show as part of a white racist American skinhead group.
Another Latino skinhead on the Geraldo show. Said he was accepted into an racist group with no problems whatsoever.
Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4 replied with this 14 years ago, 3 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #310,707
@previous (C)
> Since then, however, attitudes toward race and politics have become factors by which some skinheads align themselves
And apparently you missed the part where I said "There are a lot of Nazi/racist skinheads, but skinhead does not mean racist."
The entire point of my post is that skinhead is not synonymous with racist. There are a lot on non-racist and even anti-racist skinheads, so it's not fair to use that as a term that means racist.
Were two sentences too much for you to read?
Apparently you also missed:
In the United States, anti-racist skinheads countered the neo-Nazi stereotype by forming organisations such as The Minneapolis Baldies, which started in 1986; Skinheads Against Racial Prejudice (SHARP), which was founded in New York City in 1987 and then spread to other countries; and Anti-Racist Action (ARA), which was formed in the late 1980s by members of the Minneapolis Baldies and other activists.[44][49]
On the far left of the skinhead subculture, redskins and anarchist skinheads take a militant anti-fascist and pro-working class stance.[50] In the United Kingdom, two groups with significant numbers of leftist skinhead members were Red Action, which started in 1981, and Anti-Fascist Action, which started in 1985. Internationally, the most notable left-wing skinhead organisation is Red and Anarchist Skinheads, which formed in the New York City area in 1993 and then spread to other countries.[51]
In the United States, conservatism has been common in the skinhead scene, with many non-racist skinheads expressing right-wing and anti-communist views, glorifying American military actions and voicing opposition to modern liberalism.[21]
> Since then, however, attitudes toward race and politics have become factors by which some skinheads align themselves
And apparently you missed the part where I said "There are a lot of Nazi/racist skinheads, but skinhead does not mean racist."
The entire point of my post is that skinhead is not synonymous with racist. There are a lot on non-racist and even anti-racist skinheads, so it's not fair to use that as a term that means racist.
Were two sentences too much for you to read?
Apparently you also missed:
In the United States, anti-racist skinheads countered the neo-Nazi stereotype by forming organisations such as The Minneapolis Baldies, which started in 1986; Skinheads Against Racial Prejudice (SHARP), which was founded in New York City in 1987 and then spread to other countries; and Anti-Racist Action (ARA), which was formed in the late 1980s by members of the Minneapolis Baldies and other activists.[44][49]
On the far left of the skinhead subculture, redskins and anarchist skinheads take a militant anti-fascist and pro-working class stance.[50] In the United Kingdom, two groups with significant numbers of leftist skinhead members were Red Action, which started in 1981, and Anti-Fascist Action, which started in 1985. Internationally, the most notable left-wing skinhead organisation is Red and Anarchist Skinheads, which formed in the New York City area in 1993 and then spread to other countries.[51]
In the United States, conservatism has been common in the skinhead scene, with many non-racist skinheads expressing right-wing and anti-communist views, glorifying American military actions and voicing opposition to modern liberalism.[21]
(Edited 30 seconds later.)
Anonymous C replied with this 14 years ago, 29 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #310,711
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html
I read it as - "He's a black teen in hoodie" "Somethings wrong with him. Yup,"
Dispatcher - Are you following him?
Skin head "Yea"
Dispatcher - "We don't need you to do that"
Skin head "OK"
Skin Head kills black teen. OH & Skin head tells dispatcher he does NOT want to give his home address to the dispatcher.
I was under the impression Skin Head was tight with police.
Bottom line is Skin Head stalked and killed the Black Teen. No one can deny that if Skin Head had stayed inside his truck and waited for the cops to arrive the Black Teen would still be alive.
I read it as - "He's a black teen in hoodie" "Somethings wrong with him. Yup,"
Dispatcher - Are you following him?
Skin head "Yea"
Dispatcher - "We don't need you to do that"
Skin head "OK"
Skin Head kills black teen. OH & Skin head tells dispatcher he does NOT want to give his home address to the dispatcher.
I was under the impression Skin Head was tight with police.
Bottom line is Skin Head stalked and killed the Black Teen. No one can deny that if Skin Head had stayed inside his truck and waited for the cops to arrive the Black Teen would still be alive.
(Edited 38 seconds later.)
beckyderp !CaTLdYmooc replied with this 14 years ago, 4 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #310,714
@310,645 (D)
> Sure, but charging him with murder as opposed to manslaughter implies he intended to kill the kid.
No, he was charged with second-degree murder--which in Florida, does not require any showing of intent in the traditional sense.
It's enough that he went into a situation and acted dangerously without regard for the victim's life, even if he didn't mean for a killing to result.
> Sure, but charging him with murder as opposed to manslaughter implies he intended to kill the kid.
No, he was charged with second-degree murder--which in Florida, does not require any showing of intent in the traditional sense.
It's enough that he went into a situation and acted dangerously without regard for the victim's life, even if he didn't mean for a killing to result.
Anonymous C replied with this 14 years ago, 9 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #310,715
@previous (beckyderp !CaTLdYmooc)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin#Zimmerman_cell_phone_call_to_police
More look up via wiki Skin Heads call to police
"This guy looks like he is up to no good or he is on drugs or something" "these assholes, they always get away."
So Skin Head has already profiled the Black Teen and made up his mind while in pursuit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin#Zimmerman_cell_phone_call_to_police
More look up via wiki Skin Heads call to police
"This guy looks like he is up to no good or he is on drugs or something" "these assholes, they always get away."
So Skin Head has already profiled the Black Teen and made up his mind while in pursuit.
squeegee !firstkPE1Q replied with this 14 years ago, 20 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #310,723
@310,714 (beckyderp !CaTLdYmooc)
Ah, i understand. He'll be judged on his actions. I also read that since the prosecution didn't go to a grand jury they possibly have some key forensic detail that refutes zimmerman's story.
Ah, i understand. He'll be judged on his actions. I also read that since the prosecution didn't go to a grand jury they possibly have some key forensic detail that refutes zimmerman's story.
Anonymous C replied with this 14 years ago, 19 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #310,738
@previous (squeegee !firstkPE1Q)
Plus by not going to the Grand Jury, there is more time for witness's and evidence to come forward. Time is everything when one is trying to convict. Ever since the OJ trial, its important to review the facts and look at how the defendant will weasel out, of the evidence at hand.
Plus by not going to the Grand Jury, there is more time for witness's and evidence to come forward. Time is everything when one is trying to convict. Ever since the OJ trial, its important to review the facts and look at how the defendant will weasel out, of the evidence at hand.
beckyderp !CaTLdYmooc replied with this 14 years ago, 1 hour later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #310,786
@310,723 (squeegee !firstkPE1Q)
Oh, I didn't word this well... they do have to prove something about his state of mind, just not that he intended to kill. They just need to show he acted dangerously and that he callously disregarded the likelihood that his actions could result in death.
Oh, I didn't word this well... they do have to prove something about his state of mind, just not that he intended to kill. They just need to show he acted dangerously and that he callously disregarded the likelihood that his actions could result in death.
Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4 replied with this 14 years ago, 30 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #310,791
@previous (beckyderp !CaTLdYmooc)
> No, he was charged with second-degree murder--which in Florida, does not require any showing of intent in the traditional sense.
> They just need to show he acted dangerously and that he callously disregarded the likelihood that his actions could result in death.
Isn't that manslaughter? I was told the difference between first and second degree murder is that first degree murder is premeditated, while second degree murder is not premeditated but still intentional, but I'm also told that an involuntary killing can be second degree murder if there is reckless disregard for human life. They're obviously trying to prove the latter, but what exactly is the law in Florida and how do they distinguish between second degree murder and voluntary manslaughter?
> No, he was charged with second-degree murder--which in Florida, does not require any showing of intent in the traditional sense.
> They just need to show he acted dangerously and that he callously disregarded the likelihood that his actions could result in death.
Isn't that manslaughter? I was told the difference between first and second degree murder is that first degree murder is premeditated, while second degree murder is not premeditated but still intentional, but I'm also told that an involuntary killing can be second degree murder if there is reckless disregard for human life. They're obviously trying to prove the latter, but what exactly is the law in Florida and how do they distinguish between second degree murder and voluntary manslaughter?
beckyderp !CaTLdYmooc replied with this 14 years ago, 19 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #310,796
@previous (Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4)
That is typically the difference between first and second degree murder. But most states do allow some kind of "depraved heart" situation to bump up an unintentional homicide from manslaughter to murder, if there's enough in the accused's conduct to show an extreme indifference to the value of human life.
Second-degree murder, Florida § 782.04(2)
Manslaughter, Florida § 782.07(1)
That is typically the difference between first and second degree murder. But most states do allow some kind of "depraved heart" situation to bump up an unintentional homicide from manslaughter to murder, if there's enough in the accused's conduct to show an extreme indifference to the value of human life.
Second-degree murder, Florida § 782.04(2)
The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree
Manslaughter, Florida § 782.07(1)
The killing of a human being by the act, procurement, or culpable negligence of another, without lawful justification according to the provisions of chapter 776 and in cases in which such killing shall not be excusable homicide or murder, according to the provisions of this chapter, is manslaughter
(Edited 6 minutes later.)