Topic: What do you think about The Prison abolition movement?
Professor Paradox !0dBWLMxAG. started this discussion 14 years ago #16,976
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_abolition_movement
The prison abolition movement seeks to abolish prisons and the prison system.
Anonymous B joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later[^] [v] #288,939
@OP
What's an abolition movement?
What's an abolition movement?
Anonymous C joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 23 seconds later, 1 minute after the original post[^] [v] #288,940
I like it. Prisons do no good for victims, criminals, or society.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 2 minutes later, 3 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #288,944
Utterly stupid and naïve.
Also go away you linked to CP that one time.
Also go away you linked to CP that one time.
Anonymous B replied with this 14 years ago, 59 seconds later, 4 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #288,945
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 14 years ago, 6 minutes later, 11 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #288,950
Anonymous B replied with this 14 years ago, 53 seconds later, 12 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #288,952
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 14 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #288,953
Anonymous B replied with this 14 years ago, 27 seconds later, 14 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #288,954
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 15 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #288,955
Anonymous B replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 16 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #288,956
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 14 years ago, 46 seconds later, 17 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #288,957
Anonymous B replied with this 14 years ago, 2 minutes later, 19 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #288,958
advi !!3gpAcg/hF joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 32 minutes later, 52 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #288,961
The American rehabilitation system is horrible, but abolishing prisons altogether makes literally no sense.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 14 years ago, 19 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #288,966
Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4 joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 1 hour later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #288,975
I agree except in cases where the criminal in violent and criminally insane. In other words, use prisons strictly as a way of protecting society from the most dangerous criminals as a last resort, not as a form of punishment, especially for non-violent criminals.
kitteh joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 15 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #288,978
@previous (Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4)
What kinda punishment would you have for the non-violent ones, dude?
What kinda punishment would you have for the non-violent ones, dude?
brie !hW6clEMVuQ joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 28 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #288,984
Oh god why won't it stop?!~
Nothing I do will ever matter, I am nothing...
please oh please end the fucktarding now!~
Nothing I do will ever matter, I am nothing...
please oh please end the fucktarding now!~
Rainbow !DASHqGnDdc joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 31 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #288,987
Unintentional Jackass !LASXURl1b6 joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 16 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #288,989
mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 2 hours later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #289,010
mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos double-posted this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #289,011
mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos triple-posted this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #289,012
@288,987 (Rainbow !DASHqGnDdc)
I can't decide if that's worse than prison or not. Probably just equally bad.
I can't decide if that's worse than prison or not. Probably just equally bad.
Rainbow !DASHqGnDdc replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #289,014
mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos replied with this 14 years ago, 4 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #289,019
@previous (Rainbow !DASHqGnDdc)
That the state can order you to make restitution to a party you did not damage, and not use the obfuscation of taxation. It sets an alarming ideological precedent.
That the state can order you to make restitution to a party you did not damage, and not use the obfuscation of taxation. It sets an alarming ideological precedent.
Rainbow !DASHqGnDdc replied with this 14 years ago, 2 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #289,021
@previous (mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos)
That's because you are just mad because nobody like paedophiles.
That's because you are just mad because nobody like paedophiles.
mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos replied with this 14 years ago, 2 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #289,023
@previous (Rainbow !DASHqGnDdc)
MC2012 - name calling when you can't come up with an argument never takes a day off
MC2012 - name calling when you can't come up with an argument never takes a day off
Rainbow !DASHqGnDdc replied with this 14 years ago, 7 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #289,025
@previous (mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos)
There is no point in arguing with a silly paedo who only lives to rape young Christian girls. You should kill yourself bro.
There is no point in arguing with a silly paedo who only lives to rape young Christian girls. You should kill yourself bro.
Anonymous L joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #289,026
@289,011 (mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos)
@289,019 (mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos)
You use a lot of words without knowing what they mean.
@289,019 (mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos)
You use a lot of words without knowing what they mean.
mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos replied with this 14 years ago, 45 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #289,031
mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos double-posted this 14 years ago, 18 seconds later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #289,032
@289,025 (Rainbow !DASHqGnDdc)
MC2012 - name calling when you can't come up with an argument never takes a day off
MC2012 - name calling when you can't come up with an argument never takes a day off
Anonymous L replied with this 14 years ago, 5 seconds later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #289,033
mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos replied with this 14 years ago, 29 seconds later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #289,034
Anonymous L replied with this 14 years ago, 28 seconds later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #289,035
mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos replied with this 14 years ago, 3 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #289,037
If Rainbow Dash and Anonymous L were deleted for off-topic shitposting this thread would be better.
Rainbow !DASHqGnDdc replied with this 14 years ago, 29 minutes later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #289,038
If MountaInman was ionized for paedophilia and being boring this site would be better.
mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos replied with this 14 years ago, 10 minutes later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #289,040
@previous (Rainbow !DASHqGnDdc)
Make one post without mentioning your perverted interest in pedophilia, thanks. You're literally obsessed.
Make one post without mentioning your perverted interest in pedophilia, thanks. You're literally obsessed.
Rainbow !DASHqGnDdc replied with this 14 years ago, 12 minutes later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #289,043
@previous (mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos)
Ad hom. At least I didn't spamflood GHOUL with ACTUAL images of CP and then baaw when I ban you for it.
Ad hom. At least I didn't spamflood GHOUL with ACTUAL images of CP and then baaw when I ban you for it.
Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4 replied with this 14 years ago, 43 minutes later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #289,047
@288,978 (kitteh)
Fines, community service, exile, house arrest, GPS tracking, having certain rights revoked, chemical castration for rapists, I could think of all sorts of punishments.@288,989 (Unintentional Jackass !LASXURl1b6)
@288,989 (Unintentional Jackass !LASXURl1b6)
In extreme cases, yes, why not? Prisons are already asylums in some sense. The better ones are, anyway.
@289,011 (mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos)
Yeah, I don't see why not.
Fines, community service, exile, house arrest, GPS tracking, having certain rights revoked, chemical castration for rapists, I could think of all sorts of punishments.@288,989 (Unintentional Jackass !LASXURl1b6)
@288,989 (Unintentional Jackass !LASXURl1b6)
In extreme cases, yes, why not? Prisons are already asylums in some sense. The better ones are, anyway.
@289,011 (mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos)
Yeah, I don't see why not.
vocalon !HFvB2cixM. joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 7 hours later, 16 hours after the original post[^] [v] #289,131
@289,040 (mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos)
Watch out, you're going full retard. Wait wait wait...
> Mountainman
> full retard
Already there.
Watch out, you're going full retard. Wait wait wait...
> Mountainman
> full retard
Already there.
mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos replied with this 14 years ago, 3 hours later, 19 hours after the original post[^] [v] #289,146
mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos double-posted this 14 years ago, 3 minutes later, 19 hours after the original post[^] [v] #289,147
@289,047 (Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4)
I was watching a documentary about ice-age life. They had made like a historical drama, and at one point they exiled a guy for murdering someone. It was pretty cool.
I think to accept imprisonment as valid you would have to hold voluntary slavery contracts to be valid (assuming you believe in some sort of social contract. If you don't, then to accept the validity of involuntary imprisonment is to accept the validity of involuntary slavery).
I was watching a documentary about ice-age life. They had made like a historical drama, and at one point they exiled a guy for murdering someone. It was pretty cool.
I think to accept imprisonment as valid you would have to hold voluntary slavery contracts to be valid (assuming you believe in some sort of social contract. If you don't, then to accept the validity of involuntary imprisonment is to accept the validity of involuntary slavery).
Professor Paradox !0dBWLMxAG. (OP) replied with this 14 years ago, 1 hour later, 21 hours after the original post[^] [v] #289,167
@previous (mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos)
> I was watching a documentary about ice-age life.
What's the documentary called?
> I was watching a documentary about ice-age life.
What's the documentary called?
Anonymous L replied with this 14 years ago, 7 minutes later, 21 hours after the original post[^] [v] #289,172
@288,975 (Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4)
Incapacitation is interesting, but taken to its logical ends gets a little weird. If you don't even entertain the pretense of rehabilitation, how can you ever let any violent criminals out--or are you OK with imprisonment for life? Presumably they're as dangerous when you first put them in as they are a year or two in. Do you imprison people you are reasonably certain will commit a crime, to prevent it from happening?
Incapacitation is interesting, but taken to its logical ends gets a little weird. If you don't even entertain the pretense of rehabilitation, how can you ever let any violent criminals out--or are you OK with imprisonment for life? Presumably they're as dangerous when you first put them in as they are a year or two in. Do you imprison people you are reasonably certain will commit a crime, to prevent it from happening?
mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos replied with this 14 years ago, 9 minutes later, 21 hours after the original post[^] [v] #289,176
@289,167 (Professor Paradox !0dBWLMxAG.)
It was a documentary about the Soultrean Hypothesis called Ice Age Columbus. Really well made and interesting storyline and acting.
It was a documentary about the Soultrean Hypothesis called Ice Age Columbus. Really well made and interesting storyline and acting.
Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4 replied with this 14 years ago, 12 minutes later, 21 hours after the original post[^] [v] #289,177
@289,172 (L)
Well, I think it's clear from my agreement with OP that I am mostly agaisnt imprisonment. I believe that if imprisonment must be used as a last resort it should be used for rehabilitation, and I am OK with life imprisonment, but only in cases where rehabilitation is hopeless and they must be kept in prison for life in order to protect society from their violent insanity. Even then, I don't see it as a punishment, just as a way to protect them from others. And even in most of those cases, house arrest with heavy monitoring might be enough to keep society safe.
Well, I think it's clear from my agreement with OP that I am mostly agaisnt imprisonment. I believe that if imprisonment must be used as a last resort it should be used for rehabilitation, and I am OK with life imprisonment, but only in cases where rehabilitation is hopeless and they must be kept in prison for life in order to protect society from their violent insanity. Even then, I don't see it as a punishment, just as a way to protect them from others. And even in most of those cases, house arrest with heavy monitoring might be enough to keep society safe.
Rainbow !DASHqGnDdc replied with this 14 years ago, 9 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #289,292
@289,146 (mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos)
Yes you did you sick motherfucker. I became frightened for my lioberty because you couldn't wait to share your vile urges.
Yes you did you sick motherfucker. I became frightened for my lioberty because you couldn't wait to share your vile urges.
mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos replied with this 14 years ago, 13 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #289,440
Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4 replied with this 14 years ago, 35 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #289,442
mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos replied with this 14 years ago, 2 hours later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #289,460
Anonymous N joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 7 hours later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #289,498
Goddamn hippies. Law abiding citizens need better paying jobs. Prisons make jobs, but also redistribute jobs from those who are locked up to those who are not. The only losers are the criminals, and fuck them. Are we forgetting they're criminals?
Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4 replied with this 14 years ago, 51 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #289,512
@previous (N)
Actually it does the opposite. When someone is placed in prison it takes the money they're spending in the community and sends it to the prison, because they're still spending money in prison. They also still have jobs in prison, and cheap prison labor takes jobs away from the private sector. Someone should only be locked if they deserve to be locked you. You have no right to justify someone's prison sentence by saying that keeping someone locked up will help the economy.
Actually it does the opposite. When someone is placed in prison it takes the money they're spending in the community and sends it to the prison, because they're still spending money in prison. They also still have jobs in prison, and cheap prison labor takes jobs away from the private sector. Someone should only be locked if they deserve to be locked you. You have no right to justify someone's prison sentence by saying that keeping someone locked up will help the economy.
Rainbow !DASHqGnDdc replied with this 14 years ago, 1 hour later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #289,517
Anonymous N replied with this 14 years ago, 6 hours later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #289,610
@289,512 (Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4)
It's called freedom of speech dude. And yes, it gives me every right to say a person who's wronged another should be locked up indefinately. As a eugenicist, I personally would prefer they be executed, or at the very least stearilized. But that's not gonna happen because liberal scum would rather bankrupt society just to stroke the cocks of murderers.
It's called freedom of speech dude. And yes, it gives me every right to say a person who's wronged another should be locked up indefinately. As a eugenicist, I personally would prefer they be executed, or at the very least stearilized. But that's not gonna happen because liberal scum would rather bankrupt society just to stroke the cocks of murderers.
mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos replied with this 14 years ago, 10 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #289,613
@289,517 (Rainbow !DASHqGnDdc)
This very post is a lie. This type of ad hominem is low, even for you.
This very post is a lie. This type of ad hominem is low, even for you.
Rainbow !DASHqGnDdc replied with this 14 years ago, 7 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #289,615
@previous (mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos)
I don't know why you don't just admit it. It's not like you've not admitted it in the past.
I don't know why you don't just admit it. It's not like you've not admitted it in the past.
Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4 replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #289,617
@289,610 (N)
I didn't say you don't have a right to say it. I said that you don't have a right to lock someone up because it will benefit the economy for others (even though it won't). You lock them up for the crime they commit and the punishment should fit that crime. You don't place unjust punishment on someone because it will be economically beneficial or expedient to you. That is not justice.
I didn't say you don't have a right to say it. I said that you don't have a right to lock someone up because it will benefit the economy for others (even though it won't). You lock them up for the crime they commit and the punishment should fit that crime. You don't place unjust punishment on someone because it will be economically beneficial or expedient to you. That is not justice.
Anonymous L replied with this 14 years ago, 14 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #289,619
Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4 replied with this 14 years ago, 11 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #289,621
@previous (L)
In almost all cases, no. In fact, I'd say that prison really only works in cases where the person is not fucked up in the head to begin with, they accept their punishment and come out reformed, although in those cases I still don't really see as a very human or appropriate punishment. Even relatively short prison sentences, like 5 years, I just have a hard time believing that taking 5 years of someone's life away is a fair punishment. For violent criminals and other people fucked in the head who go into prison, they're locked up with other people fucked in the head and they come out even worse. Treating a human being like an animal is never an appropriate punishment. If you treat them like animals, and lock them up like animals, they become animals, and that's what our prison system does.
There are even prisoners who beg to stay in prison, or commit crimes to go back to prison, because they're not prepared for "life on the outside." They can't get jobs because no one will hire felons, and if no one is willing to hire felons, what does that say about how well the prison system works? If the prison system really worked, then why isn't society willing to give people a second chance when they get out of prison?
In almost all cases, no. In fact, I'd say that prison really only works in cases where the person is not fucked up in the head to begin with, they accept their punishment and come out reformed, although in those cases I still don't really see as a very human or appropriate punishment. Even relatively short prison sentences, like 5 years, I just have a hard time believing that taking 5 years of someone's life away is a fair punishment. For violent criminals and other people fucked in the head who go into prison, they're locked up with other people fucked in the head and they come out even worse. Treating a human being like an animal is never an appropriate punishment. If you treat them like animals, and lock them up like animals, they become animals, and that's what our prison system does.
There are even prisoners who beg to stay in prison, or commit crimes to go back to prison, because they're not prepared for "life on the outside." They can't get jobs because no one will hire felons, and if no one is willing to hire felons, what does that say about how well the prison system works? If the prison system really worked, then why isn't society willing to give people a second chance when they get out of prison?
mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos replied with this 14 years ago, 11 hours later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #289,691
@289,615 (Rainbow !DASHqGnDdc)
Compounding your lies. I have never uploaded CP to any website, and I have never claimed to in the past.
Compounding your lies. I have never uploaded CP to any website, and I have never claimed to in the past.
mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos double-posted this 14 years ago, 55 seconds later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #289,692
@289,621 (Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4)
> They can't get jobs because no one will hire felons, and if no one is willing to hire felons, what does that say about how well the prison system works? If the prison system really worked, then why isn't society willing to give people a second chance when they get out of prison?
Good question.
> They can't get jobs because no one will hire felons, and if no one is willing to hire felons, what does that say about how well the prison system works? If the prison system really worked, then why isn't society willing to give people a second chance when they get out of prison?
Good question.
Anonymous N replied with this 14 years ago, 23 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #289,694
@289,621 (Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4)
Punishment isn't meant to reform criminals, it's meant to separate criminals from society.
Punishment isn't meant to reform criminals, it's meant to separate criminals from society.
Rainbow !DASHqGnDdc replied with this 14 years ago, 1 hour later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #289,706
@289,691 (mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos)
Yes you did. I had to manually delete it all and then instruct Ghadmin to notify the FBI. Yes you have, you would shitflood when evading bans about how I was a modabusing anti and demanding 'pedophillic freedom'.
Yes you did. I had to manually delete it all and then instruct Ghadmin to notify the FBI. Yes you have, you would shitflood when evading bans about how I was a modabusing anti and demanding 'pedophillic freedom'.
mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos replied with this 14 years ago, 1 hour later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #289,723
@previous (Rainbow !DASHqGnDdc)
No, I didn't. Repeating this ad nauseum does not make your case more convincing. You did not have to delete anything posted by me, and Ghadmin did not notify the FBI lol. I have never shitflooded GHOUL. I constantly evaded bans given by you for no reason. I made public and clear your dealings with me and your abuses of power, which you didn't like, and still pains you enough to this day that you would tell obvious falsehoods about me. I have never used the phrase "pedophilic freedom'; why did you put that in quotes? It is not a quote of me. Don't do that.
No, I didn't. Repeating this ad nauseum does not make your case more convincing. You did not have to delete anything posted by me, and Ghadmin did not notify the FBI lol. I have never shitflooded GHOUL. I constantly evaded bans given by you for no reason. I made public and clear your dealings with me and your abuses of power, which you didn't like, and still pains you enough to this day that you would tell obvious falsehoods about me. I have never used the phrase "pedophilic freedom'; why did you put that in quotes? It is not a quote of me. Don't do that.
Rainbow !DASHqGnDdc replied with this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #289,725
mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos replied with this 14 years ago, 44 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #289,730
@previous (Rainbow !DASHqGnDdc)
> Bullshit and lies. Who are you trying to convince?
Right back at you, bud.
> Bullshit and lies. Who are you trying to convince?
Right back at you, bud.
Rainbow !DASHqGnDdc replied with this 14 years ago, 5 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #289,731
@previous (mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos)
I don't need to convince anybody. I'm just stating things that happened. Facts. All you are doing is attacking me and trying to pretend that you didn't post child pornography on GHOUL.
I don't need to convince anybody. I'm just stating things that happened. Facts. All you are doing is attacking me and trying to pretend that you didn't post child pornography on GHOUL.
cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc replied with this 14 years ago, 46 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #289,750
@289,621 (Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4)
> Treating a human being like an animal is never an appropriate punishment. If you treat them like animals, and lock them up like animals, they become animals, and that's what our prison system does.
You're looking only at the perspective of the offender, though. A big part of why victims of crime generally don't engage in vigilante justice is that they have some trust that the criminal justice system will punish the offender. It's a big part of how societies moved away from tribalism in the first place, and quite basic to the social contract. You can't just do away with that because criminals feel inconvenienced by the prison experience.
> They can't get jobs because no one will hire felons, and if no one is willing to hire felons, what does that say about how well the prison system works? If the prison system really worked, then why isn't society willing to give people a second chance when they get out of prison?
You could have a system with a 100% rehabilitation rate and still have this issue, though. Rehabilitation doesn't mean that people will be on an equal footing to non-offenders when they get out.
Even if you believed an ex-con was fully rehabilitated, what reason would a hiring manager have to choose him over the other dozens of qualified candidates--who were networking, gaining work skills and references, while the other guy was whittling toothbrushes into weapons? And you still have the persistent factors (like poverty and lack of education) that will make a person more likely to offend in the first place and less hireable, regardless of criminal background.
> Treating a human being like an animal is never an appropriate punishment. If you treat them like animals, and lock them up like animals, they become animals, and that's what our prison system does.
You're looking only at the perspective of the offender, though. A big part of why victims of crime generally don't engage in vigilante justice is that they have some trust that the criminal justice system will punish the offender. It's a big part of how societies moved away from tribalism in the first place, and quite basic to the social contract. You can't just do away with that because criminals feel inconvenienced by the prison experience.
> They can't get jobs because no one will hire felons, and if no one is willing to hire felons, what does that say about how well the prison system works? If the prison system really worked, then why isn't society willing to give people a second chance when they get out of prison?
You could have a system with a 100% rehabilitation rate and still have this issue, though. Rehabilitation doesn't mean that people will be on an equal footing to non-offenders when they get out.
Even if you believed an ex-con was fully rehabilitated, what reason would a hiring manager have to choose him over the other dozens of qualified candidates--who were networking, gaining work skills and references, while the other guy was whittling toothbrushes into weapons? And you still have the persistent factors (like poverty and lack of education) that will make a person more likely to offend in the first place and less hireable, regardless of criminal background.
mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos replied with this 14 years ago, 2 hours later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #289,787
@289,731 (Rainbow !DASHqGnDdc)
> I don't need to convince anybody. I'm just stating things that happened. Facts. All you are doing is attacking me and trying to pretend that I posted child pornography on GHOUL.
> I don't need to convince anybody. I'm just stating things that happened. Facts. All you are doing is attacking me and trying to pretend that I posted child pornography on GHOUL.
Rainbow !DASHqGnDdc replied with this 14 years ago, 2 hours later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #289,825
@previous (mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos)
Except you did post child pornography on GHOUL, so that doesn't work.
Except you did post child pornography on GHOUL, so that doesn't work.
MateuMDX !!7Enb4sycc joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 3 hours later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #289,868
It's a very good idea.
The only valid duties of the judiciary are rehabilitating criminals, ensuring some form of restitution for victims where applicable, and protecting society from criminals that consistently fail to respond positively to rehabilitation. Everything else has to be a matter of prevention. "Punishment" and "justice" are simply bad things.
The only valid duties of the judiciary are rehabilitating criminals, ensuring some form of restitution for victims where applicable, and protecting society from criminals that consistently fail to respond positively to rehabilitation. Everything else has to be a matter of prevention. "Punishment" and "justice" are simply bad things.
(Edited 58 seconds later.)
mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos replied with this 14 years ago, 30 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #289,881
mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos double-posted this 14 years ago, 1 minute later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #289,883
@289,868 (MateuMDX !!7Enb4sycc)
Rehabilitation is not a valid duty of the judiciary. Restitution is the only valid function of the judiciary.
Rehabilitation is not a valid duty of the judiciary. Restitution is the only valid function of the judiciary.
shlief !hW6clEMVuQ joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 30 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #289,891
Where do I find the edikey?I don't seem to have one on this PC...
Rainbow !DASHqGnDdc replied with this 14 years ago, 50 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #289,902
@289,881 (mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos)
Oh, so you mean that SOMEBODY ELSE with your UID and IP posted Child Pornography on GHOUL?
Oh, so you mean that SOMEBODY ELSE with your UID and IP posted Child Pornography on GHOUL?
mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos replied with this 14 years ago, 48 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #289,908
Rainbow !DASHqGnDdc replied with this 14 years ago, 14 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #289,909
@previous (mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos)
Then why did I have to delete CP from someone using your IP and three of several hundred UIDs under your IP?
Then why did I have to delete CP from someone using your IP and three of several hundred UIDs under your IP?
mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos replied with this 14 years ago, 2 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #289,911
Rainbow !DASHqGnDdc replied with this 14 years ago, 2 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #289,912
@previous (mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos)
I distinctly remember it. You were also talking about how you were going to seduce some 12 year old who went to your church group.
I distinctly remember it. You were also talking about how you were going to seduce some 12 year old who went to your church group.
Broseph !!fxnDb+Ve4 replied with this 14 years ago, 15 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #289,915
@289,750 (cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc)
> > Treating a human being like an animal is never an appropriate punishment. If you treat them like animals, and lock them up like animals, they become animals, and that's what our prison system does.
> You're looking only at the perspective of the offender, though. A big part of why victims of crime generally don't engage in vigilante justice is that they have some trust that the criminal justice system will punish the offender. It's a big part of how societies moved away from tribalism in the first place, and quite basic to the social contract. You can't just do away with that because criminals feel inconvenienced by the prison experience.
>
You're right, and I'm not against punishment. Offenders should be punished, victims should be compensated and given peace of mind, and society should be protected from dangerous people. I don't think "inconvenient" is a strong enough word to describe the prison experience. I'm not against punishment because it's inconvenient. I'm against treating humans like animals because it's inhumane. Taking away someone's humanity as punishment is only going to make them worse, and does nothing for the victims.
> > They can't get jobs because no one will hire felons, and if no one is willing to hire felons, what does that say about how well the prison system works? If the prison system really worked, then why isn't society willing to give people a second chance when they get out of prison?
> You could have a system with a 100% rehabilitation rate and still have this issue, though. Rehabilitation doesn't mean that people will be on an equal footing to non-offenders when they get out.
>
> Even if you believed an ex-con was fully rehabilitated, what reason would a hiring manager have to choose him over the other dozens of qualified candidates--who were networking, gaining work skills and references, while the other guy was whittling toothbrushes into weapons? And you still have the persistent factors (like poverty and lack of education) that will make a person more likely to offend in the first place and less hireable, regardless of criminal background.
Also a good point. Even if they are 100% rehabilitated, they're at a natural disadvantage, but hiring someone else because they're more qualified is not the same as ruling someone out completely because they served a prison sentence. Ideally, I believe that being an ex-con should be a sort of protected status, to make the situation even worse for the reformed criminal, assuming they are a reformed criminal. But since we don't live in an ideal world, most criminals aren't reformed, and hiring an ex-con in the real world can be a big risk, employers have a right to know. The reason I sort of "idealized" the question, is because I'm wondering how society looks at ex-cons. If a criminal really is reformed, I feel that they should get a second chance, but in a society very strongly biased against them, they don't stand much of chance, which increases the likelihood that they'll turn back to crime culture and end up back in prison.
> > Treating a human being like an animal is never an appropriate punishment. If you treat them like animals, and lock them up like animals, they become animals, and that's what our prison system does.
> You're looking only at the perspective of the offender, though. A big part of why victims of crime generally don't engage in vigilante justice is that they have some trust that the criminal justice system will punish the offender. It's a big part of how societies moved away from tribalism in the first place, and quite basic to the social contract. You can't just do away with that because criminals feel inconvenienced by the prison experience.
>
You're right, and I'm not against punishment. Offenders should be punished, victims should be compensated and given peace of mind, and society should be protected from dangerous people. I don't think "inconvenient" is a strong enough word to describe the prison experience. I'm not against punishment because it's inconvenient. I'm against treating humans like animals because it's inhumane. Taking away someone's humanity as punishment is only going to make them worse, and does nothing for the victims.
> > They can't get jobs because no one will hire felons, and if no one is willing to hire felons, what does that say about how well the prison system works? If the prison system really worked, then why isn't society willing to give people a second chance when they get out of prison?
> You could have a system with a 100% rehabilitation rate and still have this issue, though. Rehabilitation doesn't mean that people will be on an equal footing to non-offenders when they get out.
>
> Even if you believed an ex-con was fully rehabilitated, what reason would a hiring manager have to choose him over the other dozens of qualified candidates--who were networking, gaining work skills and references, while the other guy was whittling toothbrushes into weapons? And you still have the persistent factors (like poverty and lack of education) that will make a person more likely to offend in the first place and less hireable, regardless of criminal background.
Also a good point. Even if they are 100% rehabilitated, they're at a natural disadvantage, but hiring someone else because they're more qualified is not the same as ruling someone out completely because they served a prison sentence. Ideally, I believe that being an ex-con should be a sort of protected status, to make the situation even worse for the reformed criminal, assuming they are a reformed criminal. But since we don't live in an ideal world, most criminals aren't reformed, and hiring an ex-con in the real world can be a big risk, employers have a right to know. The reason I sort of "idealized" the question, is because I'm wondering how society looks at ex-cons. If a criminal really is reformed, I feel that they should get a second chance, but in a society very strongly biased against them, they don't stand much of chance, which increases the likelihood that they'll turn back to crime culture and end up back in prison.
mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos replied with this 14 years ago, 8 hours later, 4 days after the original post[^] [v] #290,016
@289,912 (Rainbow !DASHqGnDdc)
Your perception of events was flawed even at the time. At one point Jump was banned for imitating Jump.
Seduced 12yo count = 0
Your perception of events was flawed even at the time. At one point Jump was banned for imitating Jump.
Seduced 12yo count = 0
Rainbow !DASHqGnDdc replied with this 14 years ago, 1 hour later, 4 days after the original post[^] [v] #290,024
@previous (mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos)
buspuppie banned Jump for imitating Jump. Yet another lie churned from the mountainman factory.
> Seduced 12yo count = 0
That's because you're a fucking loser.
buspuppie banned Jump for imitating Jump. Yet another lie churned from the mountainman factory.
> Seduced 12yo count = 0
That's because you're a fucking loser.
mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos replied with this 14 years ago, 12 hours later, 4 days after the original post[^] [v] #290,207
@previous (Rainbow !DASHqGnDdc)
> buspuppie banned Jump for imitating Jump.
I know, hence my statement.
> Yet another lie churned from the mountainman factory.
What was?
> If you don't have sex with 12yo's you're a "fucking loser". You heard it here, first, on MC!
> buspuppie banned Jump for imitating Jump.
I know, hence my statement.
> Yet another lie churned from the mountainman factory.
What was?
> If you don't have sex with 12yo's you're a "fucking loser". You heard it here, first, on MC!
Rainbow !DASHqGnDdc replied with this 14 years ago, 15 hours later, 5 days after the original post[^] [v] #290,426
@previous (mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos)
You implied that I did it. That was. An it's not the 12YO but the sex. Seduced 12YO count is 0 but then again so is SeducedAnyYO.
You implied that I did it. That was. An it's not the 12YO but the sex. Seduced 12YO count is 0 but then again so is SeducedAnyYO.
mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos replied with this 14 years ago, 7 hours later, 5 days after the original post[^] [v] #290,520
@previous (Rainbow !DASHqGnDdc)
I did not imply that you did it.
Ash "I'd rather be a child-rapist than a virgin" Ketchup
I did not imply that you did it.
Ash "I'd rather be a child-rapist than a virgin" Ketchup
Merlin the Hung replied with this 14 years ago, 2 hours later, 5 days after the original post[^] [v] #290,543
@previous (mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos)
> I did not imply that you did it.
Yes you did.
> Ash "I'd rather be a child-rapist than a virgin" Ketchup
Ash "If I was going to be a sick fuck pedo and spend years infiltrating a church group so I could bone a child I would actually succeed because I am not a failure at everything I touch" Ketchup.
Mountain "I am going to proclaim my lack of sex with children as an achievement even though I literally spent years of my life trying to have sex with one specific child" Man
> I did not imply that you did it.
Yes you did.
> Ash "I'd rather be a child-rapist than a virgin" Ketchup
Ash "If I was going to be a sick fuck pedo and spend years infiltrating a church group so I could bone a child I would actually succeed because I am not a failure at everything I touch" Ketchup.
Mountain "I am going to proclaim my lack of sex with children as an achievement even though I literally spent years of my life trying to have sex with one specific child" Man
WadeWilson !54xsYfPpKE joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 3 minutes later, 5 days after the original post[^] [v] #290,545
Didn't read thread.
I think prisons are a failed institution that should be reformed.
mostly because i don't think people should go to prison, or even jail for a bit of marihuana
I think prisons are a failed institution that should be reformed.
mostly because i don't think people should go to prison, or even jail for a bit of marihuana
shlief !hW6clEMVuQ replied with this 14 years ago, 14 minutes later, 5 days after the original post[^] [v] #290,547
@previous (WadeWilson !54xsYfPpKE)
Or any marijuana at all... I'd smoke it by the brickload if it was fully legalized.
Or any marijuana at all... I'd smoke it by the brickload if it was fully legalized.
leMango joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 1 hour later, 5 days after the original post[^] [v] #290,557
@290,545 (WadeWilson !54xsYfPpKE)Amen.
Fact: Incarceration rates in the United States have tripled since 1980 and are the highest in the world by 150 prisoners per 100,000 population. Absolute prison population in the U.S. has more than quintupled over the same period.
We are doing something seriously wrong.
mountainman !4EB6xd.Oos replied with this 14 years ago, 22 minutes later, 5 days after the original post[^] [v] #290,558
@290,543 (Merlin the Hung)
I didn't imply that. You wrongly inferred that. I, as the author of that post, know what I was implying.
I lol'd at Ash admitting that if he was afflicted with a sexual desire for prepubescent children, he would completely eschew all morality, all justice, all empathy, and rape children. What a disgusting human being.
I didn't imply that. You wrongly inferred that. I, as the author of that post, know what I was implying.
I lol'd at Ash admitting that if he was afflicted with a sexual desire for prepubescent children, he would completely eschew all morality, all justice, all empathy, and rape children. What a disgusting human being.
Merlin the Hung replied with this 14 years ago, 45 minutes later, 5 days after the original post[^] [v] #290,562
Its funny because you pulled all of that from nowhere and are trying to drive discussion away from the fact you literally posted child porn on ghoul and lets not forget actually groomed a child who trusted you for years and years.
My entire point being that your only talent is to molest kids and you can't even do that right.
My entire point being that your only talent is to molest kids and you can't even do that right.
Anonymous S joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 8 hours later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #290,629
Just kill anyone that breaks the law.
Anonymous T joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 1 hour later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #290,635
@previous (S)
I'll only support this once the law is fully enforced by giant computers and robots. Humans always play favorites.
I'll only support this once the law is fully enforced by giant computers and robots. Humans always play favorites.
Anonymous S replied with this 14 years ago, 4 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #290,636
Handel !khEOdtKF56 joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 1 hour later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #290,655
@290,629 (S)
Just do this.
Justice is done and you don't have to worry about rehabilitation.
Stop trying to deal with the problem and when you can just fucking get rid of it.
Crime rates would flatline because of the severity of the punishment (execution).
Just do this.
Justice is done and you don't have to worry about rehabilitation.
Stop trying to deal with the problem and when you can just fucking get rid of it.
Crime rates would flatline because of the severity of the punishment (execution).
dw !AIy/L67q.s joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 4 hours later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #290,706
Handel !khEOdtKF56 replied with this 14 years ago, 5 minutes later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #290,708
WadeWilson !54xsYfPpKE replied with this 14 years ago, 3 hours later, 6 days after the original post[^] [v] #290,785
@290,557 (leMango)
There was an ad on the radio for some job. It said "We're an equal opportunity employer, we drug test" made me laugh. Drug testing is legal discrimination against marijuana users.
There was an ad on the radio for some job. It said "We're an equal opportunity employer, we drug test" made me laugh. Drug testing is legal discrimination against marijuana users.
dw !AIy/L67q.s replied with this 14 years ago, 11 hours later, 1 week after the original post[^] [v] #290,877
Anonymous T replied with this 14 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 week after the original post[^] [v] #290,878
@previous (dw !AIy/L67q.s)
Nah, at some point the loss of life would be so severe all survivors would need to work constantly to maintain society. Probably in forced labor situations with professions chosen by the state. No time for crime then.
Nah, at some point the loss of life would be so severe all survivors would need to work constantly to maintain society. Probably in forced labor situations with professions chosen by the state. No time for crime then.
Green !2IX54m.7BM joined in and replied with this 14 years ago, 32 minutes later, 1 week after the original post[^] [v] #290,879
I, for one, would liked to be murdered daily, and have rapists raping all those people.
Handel !khEOdtKF56 replied with this 14 years ago, 2 hours later, 1 week after the original post[^] [v] #290,896
@290,877 (dw !AIy/L67q.s)
No they wouldn't stop being retarded.
@290,878 (T)
That would be a good thing.
No they wouldn't stop being retarded.
@290,878 (T)
That would be a good thing.