Topic: quick q

Anonymous A started this discussion 15 years ago #15,889

so wait if somebody owns capital, how does that entail the right for them to determine how much a person who works their capital gets paid for completing the cycle of producing something with their capital? if a worker and the machinery create something costing 24$, and it's sold for 32$, what does the theoretical ownership matter when a worker is paid 8$? There is nothing that ownership physically does in the entire production process.

Anonymous B joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 12 minutes later[^] [v] #276,212

Except he owns it.

Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 13 minutes later, 25 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #276,215

the cost of making a commodity is paid when somebody buys whatever is made. what does he actually do in "supplying" the capital? Does he make it himself? If he buys the capital at one point, as soon as enough of whatever that capital makes is sold, that purchase is repaid by the revenued and the naturally increased cost from something that is made by combining labour with raw materials and machinery. Without the worker, an iron ore would just be iron ore and not an ingot or a pipe, something that actually has a use value. Enough of what is made being bought negates the cost of being made by itself, and the extra factor, labour is also paid for along with the materials and use of machinery. The owner gives nothing to this process, and whenever it's sold, his right of "ownership" enables him to pocket, while contributing physically nothing, the extra cost that he says whatever is sold is being worth.

Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 28 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #276,216

@previous (A)
That's very Marxist of you.

squeegee !hbZVTk6JYc joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 31 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #276,217

I have money
I buy building
I buy machinery
I buy materials
I, have thus, created a job
I hire a man to work my job in my building using my machinery to turn my materials into something else I own.
I pay him enough to survive if he's lucky

(Edited 25 seconds later.)

Anonymous E joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 9 minutes later, 41 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #276,219

@previous (squeegee !hbZVTk6JYc)
So nice to see an actually decent reply from you

@OP
Without the capital, there would be no factory, no product and no job. Damn right he gets to decide what the workers are paid. However, wages are also effected by market forces (supply and demand). If there are other jobs paying more,and not enough workers, the factory owner might have to increase his offer.

squeegee !hbZVTk6JYc replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 44 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #276,221

@previous (E)
> So nice to see an actually decent reply from you
I bet you thought i was just another pretty face.

Nega !34Kas0OdzM joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 9 minutes later, 54 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #276,230

@276,215 (A)
The difference is the reward for the time invested as well as the risk carried.
It's like you never ran a busi- wait!

Fuchs !!4KU9PSdLG joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 4 minutes later, 58 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #276,231

@previous (Nega !34Kas0OdzM)
High price, small reward. Never a good idea.

Anonymous H joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #276,233

@276,216 (Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU)
Marxism is stupid it's just "lololololol us vs. them! us vs. them! Everything in society is a conflict!

Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU replied with this 15 years ago, 59 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #276,234

@previous (H)
I never supported marxism but thank you for soundly refuting that very influential doctrine in 1 sentence.

Anonymous H replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #276,236

@previous (Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU)
You're welcome. I knew that taking sociology would help in internet debates.

Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #276,237

@previous (H)
Oh wow I'm impressed you managed to pass a hard science class like sociology.

Nega !34Kas0OdzM replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #276,238

@276,231 (Fuchs !!4KU9PSdLG)
Depends on what you're passionate about.

Fuchs !!4KU9PSdLG replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #276,239

@previous (Nega !34Kas0OdzM)
And those depend on what you're willing to afford for such.

Anonymous H replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #276,240

@276,237 (Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU)
Honestly, I'm not a big fan of it either. Just needed something to make up the numbers while I finished my real subjects.

I stand by my assessment of Marxism though.

(Edited 10 seconds later.)

Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #276,241

@previous (H)
lol nah I was just screwing with you.

Anonymous I joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 25 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #276,242

I had the same realization as you did, OP. The difference is that instead of trying to defeat it (a wholly impossible task) I decided to take advantage if at all possible for my own benefit. You should feel blessed that you have the ability to see the true facts instead of what is presented. Most people never consider that this is how the world works.