Topic: PA court: trading sex for World Series tickets not attempted prostitution
cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc started this discussion 15 years ago #15,528
Thought this was interesting. http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2011/12/21/trading-sex-for-world-series-tickets-isnt-prostitution/?mod=google_news_blog
On October 26, 2009, Defendant Susan Finkelstein posted an advertisement on the internet forum Craigslist that read: “Diehard Phillies fan—gorgeous tall buxom blonde—in desperate need of two World Series tickets. Price negotiable—I’m the creative type! Maybe we can help each other!â€
That same day [Sgt Robert Bugsch] with the Bensalem Township Police Department was monitoring Craigslist postings for possible prostitution advertisements. [Sergeant Bugsch] replied to Defendant’s ad via email requesting to see Defendant’s photograph. A few minutes [later], Defendant responded with three (3) topless photographs of herself with the message, “No problem, Robert. Here’s a few for ya!â€
[Sergeant Bugsch] asked how she wanted to pay for the World Series ticket, which began the following verbatim email exchange:
[Finkelstein]: What [sic] the asking price? My currency is, well, let’s just say ‘unconventional.’[...]
The court ruled Tuesday that Finkelstein’s proposed sex-swap amounted to “private illicit sexual relations†but not prostitution under state law, which was aimed at curbing the effects of “an open commercial sex trade†on society and preventing the exploitation of women.
“None of the evidence in this case implicates these concerns and Finkelstein’s conduct did not exceed the ambit of ‘private illicit sexual relations.’ Indeed, Susan Finkelstein appears as the embodiment of ‘a girl not generally engaged in commercial activity [who] nevertheless consents to have intercourse on a particular occasion in exchange for a promised reward,’†the court said, quoting a 1980 opinion.
That same day [Sgt Robert Bugsch] with the Bensalem Township Police Department was monitoring Craigslist postings for possible prostitution advertisements. [Sergeant Bugsch] replied to Defendant’s ad via email requesting to see Defendant’s photograph. A few minutes [later], Defendant responded with three (3) topless photographs of herself with the message, “No problem, Robert. Here’s a few for ya!â€
[Sergeant Bugsch] asked how she wanted to pay for the World Series ticket, which began the following verbatim email exchange:
[Finkelstein]: What [sic] the asking price? My currency is, well, let’s just say ‘unconventional.’[...]
The court ruled Tuesday that Finkelstein’s proposed sex-swap amounted to “private illicit sexual relations†but not prostitution under state law, which was aimed at curbing the effects of “an open commercial sex trade†on society and preventing the exploitation of women.
“None of the evidence in this case implicates these concerns and Finkelstein’s conduct did not exceed the ambit of ‘private illicit sexual relations.’ Indeed, Susan Finkelstein appears as the embodiment of ‘a girl not generally engaged in commercial activity [who] nevertheless consents to have intercourse on a particular occasion in exchange for a promised reward,’†the court said, quoting a 1980 opinion.
Appellate rulings on prostitution (and rape too) often really funny in the hypothetical situations they bring up. Later they go on to discuss the horrors of applying the law in a way that might criminalize rich guys keeping mistresses. Whatever we do, let's not penalize old white men who keep women in essentially a prostitution relationship...
kook !nH6RAuX8mo joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 9 minutes later[^] [v] #271,114
it's the barter system and i agree with it.
Ks !KansasxqvM joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 49 seconds later, 10 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #271,115
The government doesn't belong in the bedroom with consenting adults. Ever.
Anonymous D joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 27 seconds later, 10 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #271,118
Why target the old white men? When I'm old and white I'd like that option to be open to me.
cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 9 minutes later, 19 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #271,121
@271,115 (Ks !KansasxqvM)
I think that concept goes a little too far. I can see a legitimate state interest in preventing prostitution from becoming a full-blown, legitimate trade, can't you?
I also have a problem with the trend for divorce to go entirely no-fault, usually based on the same idea about consenting adults and shit. When someone is battered or cheated on, shouldn't that come into play in determining the division of assets, who gets the house, the kids? And why shouldn't we be able to sue people for fucking our spouse? Divorce is one of the worst things a society can encourage, and our government has gone full hands-off on attempting to discourage it or consider ideas of fault.
I think that concept goes a little too far. I can see a legitimate state interest in preventing prostitution from becoming a full-blown, legitimate trade, can't you?
I also have a problem with the trend for divorce to go entirely no-fault, usually based on the same idea about consenting adults and shit. When someone is battered or cheated on, shouldn't that come into play in determining the division of assets, who gets the house, the kids? And why shouldn't we be able to sue people for fucking our spouse? Divorce is one of the worst things a society can encourage, and our government has gone full hands-off on attempting to discourage it or consider ideas of fault.
kook !nH6RAuX8mo replied with this 15 years ago, 4 minutes later, 24 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #271,123
cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 7 minutes later, 32 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #271,124
@previous (kook !nH6RAuX8mo)
Violence & exploitation of women (the norm even where it's legal -- read stuff by Melissa Farley for more)
Spread of sexually transmitted disease
Influence on sexual mores
Destabilization of marriages/family unit
Violence & exploitation of women (the norm even where it's legal -- read stuff by Melissa Farley for more)
Spread of sexually transmitted disease
Influence on sexual mores
Destabilization of marriages/family unit
kook !nH6RAuX8mo replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 34 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #271,125
@previous (cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc)
but wouldn't legalization help with many of these problems? also, how can marriages be any less stable?
but wouldn't legalization help with many of these problems? also, how can marriages be any less stable?
Ks !KansasxqvM replied with this 15 years ago, 57 seconds later, 35 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #271,126
@271,121 (cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc)
The idea of prostitution is kinda revolting to me personally, but I believe in individual rights. I agree with your points on divorce, so yeah I guess it does go too far.
The idea of prostitution is kinda revolting to me personally, but I believe in individual rights. I agree with your points on divorce, so yeah I guess it does go too far.
cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 37 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #271,127
@271,125 (kook !nH6RAuX8mo)
No, legalization would encourage prostitution, and the evidence seems to show violence/exploitation isn't helped by legalization.
Yes, marriages could be less stable, just look at marriage rates in the kind of countries that support prostitution.
No, legalization would encourage prostitution, and the evidence seems to show violence/exploitation isn't helped by legalization.
Yes, marriages could be less stable, just look at marriage rates in the kind of countries that support prostitution.
(Edited 31 seconds later.)
kook !nH6RAuX8mo replied with this 15 years ago, 9 seconds later, 37 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #271,128
kook !nH6RAuX8mo double-posted this 15 years ago, 48 seconds later, 38 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #271,131
@271,127 (cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc)
Asian countries? also, where is the evidence for these violence levels?
Asian countries? also, where is the evidence for these violence levels?
(Edited 14 seconds later.)
cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 51 seconds later, 38 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #271,132
@previous (kook !nH6RAuX8mo)
I gave you the name to look up. tbh I'm not particularly familiar with family structures in Asia, I was thinking more of Western countries but didn't specify that.
I gave you the name to look up. tbh I'm not particularly familiar with family structures in Asia, I was thinking more of Western countries but didn't specify that.
Anonymous D replied with this 15 years ago, 13 seconds later, 39 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #271,133
Japan has a very different culture. There could be other, cultural, factors involved.
kook !nH6RAuX8mo replied with this 15 years ago, 58 seconds later, 40 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #271,134
kook !nH6RAuX8mo double-posted this 15 years ago, 29 seconds later, 40 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #271,135
cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 9 seconds later, 40 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #271,136
Anonymous D replied with this 15 years ago, 29 seconds later, 41 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #271,137
kook !nH6RAuX8mo replied with this 15 years ago, 48 seconds later, 42 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #271,138
cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 43 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #271,139
kook !nH6RAuX8mo replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 45 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #271,141
@previous (cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc)
oh you posted a link to that book, i see. you seem to be very easily annoyed. why is that?
oh you posted a link to that book, i see. you seem to be very easily annoyed. why is that?
squeegee !hbZVTk6JYc joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 46 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #271,142
@271,121 (cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc)
Fuck yeah, i agree. Prostitution should'nt be considered a legitimate trade. Can you imagine what would happen if it was legal?
Prices would plummet! There'd be know way to tell a $40 whore from a $400 escort! It'd be chaos! At least the high prices of black market blondes keeps out the riff-raf!
If every nigger can afford to get his dick sucked then i don't want to live on this planet anymore :c
Fuck yeah, i agree. Prostitution should'nt be considered a legitimate trade. Can you imagine what would happen if it was legal?
Prices would plummet! There'd be know way to tell a $40 whore from a $400 escort! It'd be chaos! At least the high prices of black market blondes keeps out the riff-raf!
If every nigger can afford to get his dick sucked then i don't want to live on this planet anymore :c
cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 36 seconds later, 46 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #271,144
@271,141 (kook !nH6RAuX8mo)
You annoy me a bit in debates, demanding citations be handed to you, but showing no initiative in looking things up yourself even when it's right fucking there.
You annoy me a bit in debates, demanding citations be handed to you, but showing no initiative in looking things up yourself even when it's right fucking there.
kook !nH6RAuX8mo replied with this 15 years ago, 50 seconds later, 47 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #271,145
@previous (cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc)
you should post citations when making big claims. posting the name of one woman is lazy.
you should post citations when making big claims. posting the name of one woman is lazy.
cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 49 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #271,148
@previous (kook !nH6RAuX8mo)
I don't really have an interest in writing footnoted posts here, if you get a name or two that seems plenty.
You can't even be bothered to look up something as simple as a country's divorce rate ffs, or to read a post far enough to find a name.
I don't really have an interest in writing footnoted posts here, if you get a name or two that seems plenty.
You can't even be bothered to look up something as simple as a country's divorce rate ffs, or to read a post far enough to find a name.
cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc (OP) double-posted this 15 years ago, 45 seconds later, 50 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #271,149
kook !nH6RAuX8mo replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 52 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #271,151
@271,148 (cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc)
you made those claims without doing research yourself. you have no idea about divorce rates in other countries or how they relate to prostitution, but you made a claim based on it.
you made those claims without doing research yourself. you have no idea about divorce rates in other countries or how they relate to prostitution, but you made a claim based on it.
cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 50 seconds later, 53 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #271,153
kook !nH6RAuX8mo replied with this 15 years ago, 58 seconds later, 54 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #271,154
@previous (cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc)
what does that have to do with anything? you get so angry when challenged. you could take that same energy and use it to do proper research.
what does that have to do with anything? you get so angry when challenged. you could take that same energy and use it to do proper research.
Anonymous D replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 56 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #271,156
kook !nH6RAuX8mo replied with this 15 years ago, 25 seconds later, 56 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #271,158
kook !nH6RAuX8mo double-posted this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 58 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #271,161
when prostitution is illegal, the hookers are unable to report crimes against them that occur during "work".
cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 42 seconds later, 59 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #271,162
Anonymous F joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 1 second later, 59 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #271,163
@OP
Prostitution is legal in New Zealand and it causes no problems. We have a government funded organisation that looks after them: www.nzpc.org.nz/
They also pay tax.
Prostitution is legal in New Zealand and it causes no problems. We have a government funded organisation that looks after them: www.nzpc.org.nz/
They also pay tax.
kook !nH6RAuX8mo replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,164
cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,165
kook !nH6RAuX8mo replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,166
@previous (cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc)
do you need a citation to know that prostitutes get arrested for prostitution?
do you need a citation to know that prostitutes get arrested for prostitution?
cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,168
@previous (kook !nH6RAuX8mo)
That they are regularly arrested in the course of reporting crime, with no other evidence that they engage in prostitution besides their own word, yes.
That they are regularly arrested in the course of reporting crime, with no other evidence that they engage in prostitution besides their own word, yes.
kook !nH6RAuX8mo replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,170
@previous (cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc)
you know what. give me a few minutes and i'll look up some interesting books. let's both agree to read one, and we can debate this properly afterwards.
you know what. give me a few minutes and i'll look up some interesting books. let's both agree to read one, and we can debate this properly afterwards.
kook !nH6RAuX8mo double-posted this 15 years ago, 16 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,171
cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,172
@previous (kook !nH6RAuX8mo)
Go fuck yourself, you're obnoxious as shit. I was reading up on prostitution in New Zealand so I could make an informed reply.
Go fuck yourself, you're obnoxious as shit. I was reading up on prostitution in New Zealand so I could make an informed reply.
(Edited 1 minute later.)
kook !nH6RAuX8mo replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,175
cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 41 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,176
kook !nH6RAuX8mo replied with this 15 years ago, 5 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,177
interesting
http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/2011/07/24/a-load-of-farley/
http://titsandsass.com/?p=3669
http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/2011/07/24/a-load-of-farley/
http://titsandsass.com/?p=3669
cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 30 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,178
kook !nH6RAuX8mo replied with this 15 years ago, 16 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,179
cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,180
kook !nH6RAuX8mo replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,181
Anonymous F replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,182
@previous (kook !nH6RAuX8mo)
Here you are Sir!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_New_Zealand
Here you are Sir!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_New_Zealand
Anonymous F double-posted this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,186
Wow.
> Thus it is not illegal for a person under 18 to be a sex worker, but it is illegal for anyone else to profit from them in this capacity, or cause, assist, facilitate, or encourage them to provide commercial sexual services to any person. It is also illegal for anyone to purchase sex from a person aged under 18.
> Thus it is not illegal for a person under 18 to be a sex worker, but it is illegal for anyone else to profit from them in this capacity, or cause, assist, facilitate, or encourage them to provide commercial sexual services to any person. It is also illegal for anyone to purchase sex from a person aged under 18.
cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 55 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,187
kook !nH6RAuX8mo replied with this 15 years ago, 21 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,188
Anonymous F replied with this 15 years ago, 31 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,189
cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 4 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,190
@271,188 (kook !nH6RAuX8mo)
If the starting point is sheep-fucking, I suppose legalized prostitution is actually an improvement.
If the starting point is sheep-fucking, I suppose legalized prostitution is actually an improvement.
kook !nH6RAuX8mo replied with this 15 years ago, 26 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,191
cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 24 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,192
cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc (OP) double-posted this 15 years ago, 55 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,193
Anonymous F replied with this 15 years ago, 14 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,194
Anonymous F double-posted this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,195
@271,193 (cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc)
It's illegal for anyone to pay for sex from a 16 or 17 year old.
And of course, the age of consent law prohibits ALL sex with under 16 year olds.
It's illegal for anyone to pay for sex from a 16 or 17 year old.
And of course, the age of consent law prohibits ALL sex with under 16 year olds.
Anonymous F triple-posted this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,198
@271,193 (cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc)
It's nice to live in a nation without so much sexual hysteria, BTW.
It's nice to live in a nation without so much sexual hysteria, BTW.
cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 6 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,199
@previous (F)
Yeah, don't mind me, this is all projection! I too have often thought, wow, the one thing that would complete my life would be kids in the sex trade. And legal brothels. My quality of life is greatly diminished by the lack of legal brothels here.
Yeah, don't mind me, this is all projection! I too have often thought, wow, the one thing that would complete my life would be kids in the sex trade. And legal brothels. My quality of life is greatly diminished by the lack of legal brothels here.
kook !nH6RAuX8mo replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,201
squeegee !hbZVTk6JYc replied with this 15 years ago, 32 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,202
@271,199 (cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc)
Brothels suck, actually. What you want are independants (but yeah, you'll pay a premium.)
Brothels suck, actually. What you want are independants (but yeah, you'll pay a premium.)
cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 3 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,203
kook !nH6RAuX8mo replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,205
cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 51 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,206
Anonymous F replied with this 15 years ago, 8 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,207
@271,199 (cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc)
Think about all that income tax your country isn't collecting. Legalizing the world's oldest profession could save America!
(or at least, pay for the ridiculously high percentage of the population you keep in jail:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate )
Think about all that income tax your country isn't collecting. Legalizing the world's oldest profession could save America!
(or at least, pay for the ridiculously high percentage of the population you keep in jail:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate )
cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 37 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,208
kook !nH6RAuX8mo replied with this 15 years ago, 22 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,210
@271,206 (cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc)
odd pick up? we should actually all have a series of minichan live debates.
odd pick up? we should actually all have a series of minichan live debates.
kook !nH6RAuX8mo double-posted this 15 years ago, 39 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,212
cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 3 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,213
Anonymous G joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 20 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,214
kook !nH6RAuX8mo replied with this 15 years ago, 39 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,215
cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,216
@271,214 (G)
Her ideology is a bit strange, but that doesn't necessarily mean her studies or the substantive conclusions are wrong. Lots of academics are pretty crazy, all told.
Her ideology is a bit strange, but that doesn't necessarily mean her studies or the substantive conclusions are wrong. Lots of academics are pretty crazy, all told.
Anonymous F replied with this 15 years ago, 4 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #271,218
@271,208 (cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc)they're still over-represented in prison stats, sadly.
@271,212 (kook !nH6RAuX8mo)
Compare:
http://www.visionofhumanity.org/gpi-data/#/2011/scor//compare/US+NZ
NZ is the second most peaceful country.
US is #82
Anonymous G replied with this 15 years ago, 12 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #271,220
@271,216 (cccuuunnttt !CaTLdYmooc)
She was also accused a few months back of misrepresenting data, being deceptive in her practices, breaching the APA Code of Ethics and being misleading in her research.
And a whole lot more.
She was also accused a few months back of misrepresenting data, being deceptive in her practices, breaching the APA Code of Ethics and being misleading in her research.
Melissa Farley in my opinion misrepresented her studies intentions to me in the early years of my activism around sex worker rights. To my knowledge there was no approval by any board, council or ethics committee of her study on sex workers in South Africa at the time.
Not to compare levels of violence and or post traumatic stress disorder of sex workers with other groups of marginalised, criminalised or highly stigmatised people shows that the intentions of the study needs to be assessed against what is considered a reasonable standard of research by the University or Research body supervising her work at the time. I don't think Melissa's study shows us anything valuable other than what we already all agree on - sex workers are subject to violence and have no recourse to any legal remedy due to criminality. She seemed affable and supportive of my efforts and work and appeared a kindly person. She told me she was an activist for sex workers and gave me the impression that she was a well known and respected advocate and academic in this arena. There was nothing about her that made me think I should check her credentials out. The outcomes of the research were to be used to advance public understanding and sympathy of sex work.
I am saddened that Melissa continues to use her data to attack us. I never felt traumatised by sex work - however I am traumatised by the abuse, lies and deceit of academics who invade the world of sex workers through personal misrepresentation of themselves and then use the data to achieve their own personal academic goals at the expense of the marginalised.
Not to compare levels of violence and or post traumatic stress disorder of sex workers with other groups of marginalised, criminalised or highly stigmatised people shows that the intentions of the study needs to be assessed against what is considered a reasonable standard of research by the University or Research body supervising her work at the time. I don't think Melissa's study shows us anything valuable other than what we already all agree on - sex workers are subject to violence and have no recourse to any legal remedy due to criminality. She seemed affable and supportive of my efforts and work and appeared a kindly person. She told me she was an activist for sex workers and gave me the impression that she was a well known and respected advocate and academic in this arena. There was nothing about her that made me think I should check her credentials out. The outcomes of the research were to be used to advance public understanding and sympathy of sex work.
I am saddened that Melissa continues to use her data to attack us. I never felt traumatised by sex work - however I am traumatised by the abuse, lies and deceit of academics who invade the world of sex workers through personal misrepresentation of themselves and then use the data to achieve their own personal academic goals at the expense of the marginalised.
In her research, between 1998 and at least 2003, Dr Farley claims to be able to diagnose sex workers with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder after the completion of a 15 minute self administered questionnaire. Yet the National Center for PTSD states: For making a diagnosis of PTSD rather than simply assessing symptoms, structured interviews will generally yield more valid results than other types of measures. An exception is that structured interviews that begin with a single gate-keeping item have poor validity for particular types of traumatic experiences. Also, structured interviews with brief, single-item, closed-ended questions for each PTSD symptom are likely to be no more valid for making a diagnosis than self-report measures..
It should also be noted that the Centre also states:
Proper assessment of PTSD is complex, and in a forensic setting, it should include substantial attention to corroboration of self-reports through a records review and collateral information. The ability to evaluate these assessments can be very helpful for those involved in the legal system. PTSD evaluation will be particularly practical for those who want to conclusively and convincingly establish a PTSD diagnosis and for those who need to appraise the accuracy or veracity of a PTSD claim that seems dubious. By paying attention to the five areas mentioned above, one can make an initial assessment of the accuracy of a PTSD diagnosis. In addition, if all five of the above elements are attended to, counsel can convincingly present evidence that an individual indeed suffers from the disorder.
Therefore it would not be possible for Dr Farley to competently state that “67 percent [of sex workers] met criteria for a diagnosis of PTSD†as she does in her paper Prostitution in 5 Countries: Violence and Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (1998).
It should also be noted that the Centre also states:
Proper assessment of PTSD is complex, and in a forensic setting, it should include substantial attention to corroboration of self-reports through a records review and collateral information. The ability to evaluate these assessments can be very helpful for those involved in the legal system. PTSD evaluation will be particularly practical for those who want to conclusively and convincingly establish a PTSD diagnosis and for those who need to appraise the accuracy or veracity of a PTSD claim that seems dubious. By paying attention to the five areas mentioned above, one can make an initial assessment of the accuracy of a PTSD diagnosis. In addition, if all five of the above elements are attended to, counsel can convincingly present evidence that an individual indeed suffers from the disorder.
Therefore it would not be possible for Dr Farley to competently state that “67 percent [of sex workers] met criteria for a diagnosis of PTSD†as she does in her paper Prostitution in 5 Countries: Violence and Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (1998).
And a whole lot more.
(Edited 49 seconds later.)
Anonymous H joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 49 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #271,238
> Appellate rulings on prostitution (and rape too) often really funny in the hypothetical situations they bring up. Later they go on to discuss the horrors of applying the law in a way that might criminalize rich guys keeping mistresses. Whatever we do, let's not penalize old white men who keep women in essentially a prostitution relationship...
trololol. I knew you'd find some way to make this about men exploiting women. You're too predictable, babe.
trololol. I knew you'd find some way to make this about men exploiting women. You're too predictable, babe.
(Edited 1 minute later.)
Handel !khEOdtKF56 joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 2 hours later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #271,275
Jesus if a woman wants to whore herself out let her. Why should she have to answer to the government?
Fucking hell.
Fucking hell.
kook !nH6RAuX8mo replied with this 15 years ago, 16 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #271,284
@previous (Handel !khEOdtKF56)
i agree. people have the freedom to be slutty as hell, but you add goods and services and it's suddenly illegal? senseless.
i agree. people have the freedom to be slutty as hell, but you add goods and services and it's suddenly illegal? senseless.
Handel !khEOdtKF56 replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #271,286
@previous (kook !nH6RAuX8mo)
I know, talk about a "free world".
A woman can't even fuck for a pair of tickets.
I know, talk about a "free world".
A woman can't even fuck for a pair of tickets.
squeegee !hbZVTk6JYc replied with this 15 years ago, 13 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #271,291
Anonymous J joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 3 hours later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #271,410
Jesus fuck your a psycho bitch cunt
> The government doesn't belong in the bedroom with consenting adults. Ever.
who the fuck could disagree with this? What's next? Ban abortion. your an evil slut
> The government doesn't belong in the bedroom with consenting adults. Ever.
who the fuck could disagree with this? What's next? Ban abortion. your an evil slut
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #271,413
TTEH !penisGseqs replied with this 15 years ago, 9 minutes later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #271,419
squeegee !hbZVTk6JYc replied with this 15 years ago, 1 hour later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #271,432
Lord Nigger !xi8/JKFwzo joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 46 minutes later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #271,448
jump joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 37 minutes later, 12 hours after the original post[^] [v] #271,466
Women at bars everywhere are breathing a sigh of relief.
Also, lol at Bensalem cops. They also got a 16 year old girl to go undercover with a wire over 2 E pills.
She had to go into witness protection. They scared her into thinking she was in a lot more serious trouble than she was.
They should all be tried for treason and hung.
Also, lol at Bensalem cops. They also got a 16 year old girl to go undercover with a wire over 2 E pills.
She had to go into witness protection. They scared her into thinking she was in a lot more serious trouble than she was.
They should all be tried for treason and hung.