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Minichan

Topic: and einstein wins again

floorboard !hbZVTk6JYc started this discussion 15 years ago #14,795

lol neutrinos

TL;DR nothing travels faster than light

GENEVA (Reuters) - An international team of scientists in Italy studying the same neutrino particles colleagues say appear to have travelled faster than light rejected the startling finding this weekend, saying their tests had shown it must be wrong.

The September announcement of the finding, backed up last week after new studies, caused a furor in the scientific world as it seemed to suggest Albert Einstein's ideas on relativity, and much of modern physics, were based on a mistaken premise.

The first team, members of the OPERA experiment at the Gran Sasso laboratory south of Rome, said they recorded neutrinos beamed to them from the CERN research center in Switzerland as arriving 60 nanoseconds before light would have done.

But ICARUS, another experiment at Gran Sasso - which is deep under mountains and run by Italy's National Institute of National Physics - now argues that their measurements of the neutrinos energy on arrival contradict that reading.

In a paper posted Saturday on the same website as the OPERA results, http://arxiv.org/abs/1110.3763v2, the ICARUS team says their findings "refute a superluminal (faster than light) interpretation of the OPERA result."

They argue, on the basis of recently published studies by two top U.S. physicists, that the neutrinos pumped down from CERN, near Geneva, should have lost most of their energy if they had travelled at even a tiny fraction faster than light.

But in fact, the ICARUS scientists say, the neutrino beam as tested in their equipment registered an energy spectrum fully corresponding with what it should be for particles traveling at the speed of light and no more.

Physicist Tomasso Dorigo, who works at CERN, the European Organization for Nuclear Research, and the U.S. Fermilab near Chicago, said in a post on the website Scientific Blogging that the ICARUS paper was "very simple and definitive."

It says, he wrote, "that the difference between the speed of neutrinos and the speed of light cannot be as large as that seen by OPERA, and is certainly smaller than that by three orders of magnitude, and compatible with zero."

Under Einstein's 1905 theory of special relativity, nothing can travel faster than light. That idea lies at the heart of all current science of the cosmos and of how the vast variety of particles that make it up behave.

There was widespread skepticism when the OPERA findings were first revealed, and even the leaders of the experiment insisted that they were not announcing a discovery but simply recording measurements they had made and carefully checked.

However, last Friday they said a new experiment with shorter neutrino beams from CERN and much larger gaps between them had produced the same result. Independent scientists said however this was not conclusive.

Other experiments are being prepared - at Fermilab and at the KEK laboratory in Japan - to try to replicate OPERA's findings. Only confirmation from one of these would open the way for a full scientific discovery to be declared.

(Edited 2 minutes later.)

Poll option Votes Percentage Graph
stands to reason 2 40%
I reject this conclusion and indignantly argue otherwise 3 60%

Anonymous B joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 31 seconds later[^] [v] #260,761

This is a lot of words, floorboard.

Anonymous C joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 minute after the original post[^] [v] #260,762

@previous (B)
Indeed. It's pretty darn teal deer.

dreamworks !AIy/L67q.s joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 13 seconds later, 1 minute after the original post[^] [v] #260,763

einstein is dead
einstein = lost

floorboard !hbZVTk6JYc (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 2 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #260,765

@260,761 (B)
@260,762 (C)
fix'd

Anonymous E joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 3 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #260,769

How do we know that this wasn't influenced by those who are bias toward anything not theorized by Einstein?

floorboard !hbZVTk6JYc (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 23 seconds later, 4 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #260,770

@previous (E)
because science

Anonymous C replied with this 15 years ago, 13 seconds later, 4 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #260,771

@260,765 (floorboard !hbZVTk6JYc)
Thanks.

floorboard !hbZVTk6JYc (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 5 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #260,773

@previous (C)
well look, they don't just use words to argue things. They use empirical evidence.

Anonymous E replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 7 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #260,775

@260,770 (floorboard !hbZVTk6JYc)
But science can get corrupted and it's being corrupted nowadays to further political agendas.

Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 9 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #260,777

From reading the article it doesn't seem like there's a consensus, so I don't think we can say that Einstein was "proven" right.

floorboard !hbZVTk6JYc (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 10 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #260,780

@260,775 (E)
that has nothing to do with measuring the mass of neutrinos

floorboard !hbZVTk6JYc (OP) double-posted this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 13 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #260,786

@260,777 (Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU)
they'll test it again at Fermilab, yup. but as far as ICARUS is concerned it's been proven einstein right. Fermilab results will probably be the final nail in the coffin.

hamfist !!mZuNK1i+C joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 32 minutes later, 46 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #260,826

Interesting, I was wondering what ever happened to those neutrinos

Anonymous E replied with this 15 years ago, 6 hours later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #261,075

@260,780 (floorboard !hbZVTk6JYc)
It kind of does when you're realizing that scientists maybe lying and trying to cover up the truth to protect Einstein's theories so the general public doesn't freak out back into the religious dark ages.

Anonymous H joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 46 minutes later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #261,077

Image went missing@previous (E)
nobody cares

floorboard !hbZVTk6JYc (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 47 minutes later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #261,082

Image went missing@261,075 (E)
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