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jump joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 15 minutes later[^][v]#258,430
Yes. Literally he has infinite hands and infinite fingers working an infinite number of strings. Literally strings. We can't see or detect them.
Prove me wrong.
Anonymous C joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 37 minutes later, 52 minutes after the original post[^][v]#258,432
No, we have free will.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 8 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#258,438
@previous (C)
If by free will you mean follow me and have eternal bliss or disobey me and burn in hell, yes we do.
green joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 37 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#258,446
Nope.
Anonymous E joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 5 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#258,447
@258,438 (A)
That would still be free will, but fortunately that is not the case. God loves us.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 51 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#258,452
@previous (E)
It's manipulation and making it so you don't actually have a choice. No one would want to burn in Hell so it's already the default choice to follow the one giving you the options. So basically you don't actually have a choice therefore a lack of free will. And why does Hell and Satan exist if God loves all?
Anonymous F joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 27 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#258,455
And isn't god technically helping satan if he keeps letting him have all of the souls that he doesn't want?
Anonymous G joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 14 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#258,457
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 14 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^][v]#258,459
@previous (G)
But nobody would choose that so basically God makes them choose to follow them with a false sense of will.
Anonymous C replied with this 15 years ago, 35 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^][v]#258,466
@258,452 (A) > It's manipulation and making it so you don't actually have a choice. No one would want to burn in Hell so it's already the default choice to follow the one giving you the options. So basically you don't actually have a choice therefore a lack of free will. And why does Hell and Satan exist if God loves all?
Hell exists because God respects our free will. Hell is defined as simply "separation from God". It is not a "punishment", merely a consequence.
The existence of natural laws (physics) does not preclude free will, which would be the implication of your line of argument.
Anonymous C double-posted this 15 years ago, 6 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^][v]#258,468
@258,455 (F)
God loves everybody, and saved everybody through His Son, Jesus Christ. Some people do not know that they have been saved, and live lives of misery and hopelessness. This is why we spread the Gospel, "Good News", of God's love, so that the hope and love of Jesus Christ will fill people's hearts, and we can live lives of light and love.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 4 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^][v]#258,470
@258,466 (C)
2 forced choice does not what a free will makes. @previous (C)
So Hell never existed?
jump replied with this 15 years ago, 29 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^][v]#258,486
> 2 forced choice does not what a free will makes.
??? You can either choose to be with God, or choose to stay away from God. God is love, so I have chosen to be with Him.
> So Hell never existed?
I do not believe so, no.
Anonymous C double-posted this 15 years ago, 58 seconds later, 5 hours after the original post[^][v]#258,500
@258,486 (jump)
Christian theology throughout the millennia.
Anonymous C triple-posted this 15 years ago, 53 seconds later, 5 hours after the original post[^][v]#258,501
@258,489 (F)
I do not believe that He does allow that, for precisely the reason you offered - it would not be very loving.
Anonymous F replied with this 15 years ago, 24 seconds later, 5 hours after the original post[^][v]#258,502
Anonymous F replied with this 15 years ago, 46 seconds later, 5 hours after the original post[^][v]#258,504
@258,501 (C)
So then he doesn't have the power to stop Lucy taking 'bad' souls then? That's not very all-powerful of him.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^][v]#258,505
@previous (F)
Can he create a boulder that even he can't lift?
dreamworks !AIy/L67q.s joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 21 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^][v]#258,507
who cares
Anonymous I joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 15 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^][v]#258,508
The God of the Bible is an egotistical prick, he demands worship despite being all powerful and delights in our suffering. People need to learn how to fucking read. You can't believe in an "all loving god" and the God of the Bible simultaneously. The whole idea of an all loving god is garbage without the Jesus hack.
Anonymous F replied with this 15 years ago, 11 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^][v]#258,509
@258,507 (dreamworks !AIy/L67q.s)
Deal with it, Joran.
jump replied with this 15 years ago, 44 seconds later, 6 hours after the original post[^][v]#258,513
@258,500 (C)
yea, but where do they get it from? could you be specific. it all seems rather made up to me.
(Edited 26 seconds later.)
Anonymous I replied with this 15 years ago, 6 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^][v]#258,520
@previous (jump)
The church promotes the idea of hell because it appeals to people's natural instinct for revenge. It's very comforting to know that all who've violated me will suffer for their wrongs. It frees me to say "fuck it," forget about those assholes, and do what I want in life rather than being a slave to my need to get even. It's nice knowing the asshole upstairs has a it covered.
Hell is a big part of the appeal in religion.
(Edited 25 seconds later.)
jump replied with this 15 years ago, 22 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^][v]#258,528
@previous (I)
That doesn't address my question. I also don't think your logic is very sound. Most people are forgiven. So, those who have violated you may not suffer at all. The only "suffering" is feeling bad about it and asking jesus for forgiveness.
Anonymous F replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^][v]#258,530
@258,520 (I)
Do you think that god would like Star Wars though? This is a major theological issue.
Anonymous I replied with this 15 years ago, 4 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^][v]#258,534
@258,528 (jump)
But see people can believe whatever they choose. As for me, my enemies burn for all eternity, and I like it.
Anonymous C replied with this 15 years ago, 16 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^][v]#258,539
@258,502 (F)
Who knows? I would think that He enjoys the fact that it has brought happiness to many people.
Anonymous C double-posted this 15 years ago, 24 seconds later, 7 hours after the original post[^][v]#258,540
Anonymous I replied with this 15 years ago, 28 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^][v]#258,553
@258,541 (C)
Except the owner of any property must punish people who fuck with it. Otherwise, they can never actually own anything. I'm God's property, fuck with me and burn motherfucker.
Anonymous J joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 15 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^][v]#258,562
> 2011 > not worshipping Allah
Anonymous F replied with this 15 years ago, 14 minutes later, 8 hours after the original post[^][v]#258,569
@258,539 (C)
But he would be indifferent to the film itself?
floorboard !nIGga.SL0w joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 1 hour later, 10 hours after the original post[^][v]#258,591
Hey guys, but what if santa clause is real, but as we age we lose our faith in him, because society, and, like, just blindly believing in him with no evidence might get you free presents but not believing in him guarantees no presents, then should'nt we all just believe in santa -just in case?
And the boogyman. It's better to believe in him too, you know, he might be real. I've got no real proof, but i've got an old book that mentions him, so... Better safe than sorry.
Anonymous L joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 7 minutes later, 10 hours after the original post[^][v]#258,593
@previous (floorboard !nIGga.SL0w)
Each of us should believe whatever serves us best. Usually that's objective reality, but with respect to what happens to personal consciousness after death objectivity is impossible so anything goes really. You can believe any shit you like and nobody can ever disprove you.
As for me, my enemies will burn and I will look down upon them alongside God from heaven and finally appreciate why God enjoys human suffering so much.
(Edited 3 minutes later.)
Anonymous F replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 10 hours after the original post[^][v]#258,595
@258,541 (C)
And yet satan gets his share all the same.
Either god is not benevolent or satan is overpowering him. You must pick one.
(Edited 19 seconds later.)
Anonymous L replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 10 hours after the original post[^][v]#258,596
@previous (F)
The question of God's benevolence is wholly irrelevant when he is omnipotent by definition.
Anonymous F replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 10 hours after the original post[^][v]#258,597
@previous (L)
That doesn't address my point at all. :-/
Anonymous L replied with this 15 years ago, 41 minutes later, 11 hours after the original post[^][v]#258,599
@previous (F)
Your point is irrelevant. Pointing this out qualifies as addressing your point. God is omnipotent.
Clearly any omnipotent being is free to be malevolent whenever he chooses.
(Edited 5 minutes later.)
Anonymous F replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 11 hours after the original post[^][v]#258,600
@previous (L)
That sounds like something a statist would say.
Anonymous C replied with this 15 years ago, 7 hours later, 18 hours after the original post[^][v]#258,796
floorboard !nIGga.SL0w replied with this 15 years ago, 53 minutes later, 22 hours after the original post[^][v]#258,896
I just don't think it's that simple. If you spell Santa as Satan then you start to see the bigger picture.
Yeah. Take that -they both wear red too! And don't forget the offerings of milk and cookies at the idol of the fireplace where he then magically appears to give presents to all the children! Realistically speaking christmas is the devil. Can i get a wut-wut?
Anonymous G replied with this 15 years ago, 4 minutes later, 22 hours after the original post[^][v]#258,899
That's very vague. Why is it do difficult for the religious to be specific?
It seems the answers you get from religion aren't very good answers. Also, there seems to be a lot of different answers to the same questions. It all depends on who you ask. It's like religion provides no real answers at all...
Anonymous C replied with this 15 years ago, 6 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#259,001
@258,885 (buspupps !!hkv8K5ZEY)
Yes! This is the Gospel, and the foundation of Christianity.
Anonymous L replied with this 15 years ago, 2 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#259,087
@258,798 (C)
Well that's just nice that your God is love. My God however, is all powerful and just, meaning he'll kick your God's ass any day of the week. Except Sunday, or Saturday. I'm not sure which.
Anonymous G replied with this 15 years ago, 42 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#259,096
Anonymous N joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 38 seconds later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#259,098
he doesn't exist, so don't waste your time
Anonymous L replied with this 15 years ago, 1 hour later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#259,130
@previous (N)
He "exists" by definition, just as the words I'm typing into this machine exist by definition. It's a mental construct and everyone knows what it's about.
Fucking atheists are always so stupid.
(Edited 28 seconds later.)
Anonymous F replied with this 15 years ago, 9 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#259,138
He doesn't "physically exist" by definition, just as the words I'm typing into this machine don't physically exist by definition. It's a mental construct.
Fucking theists are always so stupid.
(Edited 33 seconds later.)
Anonymous L replied with this 15 years ago, 9 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#259,146
@previous (F)
Except there are infinite parallel universes where things which are only imaginary in this universe are actually real in others. And therefore it's entirely possible for them to be real in our own universe at some future date.
Don't blame theism for that one, that's your own science trolls talking. Well, to whatever extent theoretical physicists can be considered actual "scientists."`
Anonymous F replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#259,148
@previous (L)
Except there are infinite parallel universes that don't matter where things which are only imaginary in this universe are actually real in others. And therefore it's entirely possible yet irrelevant for them to be real in our own universe at some future date.
Blame theism for that one, that's their own physics trolls talking. Well, to whatever extent desperate theists can be considered actual "physicists."`
(Edited 49 seconds later.)
jump replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#259,151
@259,146 (L)
Do you have even a basic understanding of quantum mechanics? If you don't, you can't not sound like an idiot when talking about it.
Anonymous L replied with this 15 years ago, 5 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#259,152
@previous (jump)
But I do have an understanding of quantum physics. And I know it's true there are dinosaurs in your living room this very moment. They're there, they're just "out of phase" with respect to ordinary timespace. That's why you can't touch them even though they are actually there.
btw, does knowing that my words don't "physically exist" diminish their power or utility in any way?
(Edited 3 minutes later.)
Anonymous F replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#259,154
Oh, and thanks for proving my fucking point too. Words are gods to people. All this despite the fact they don't even physically exit. Make a mistake and people will instantly conclude you're worthless scum. Just like theists do with atheists.
(Edited 5 minutes later.)
buspupps !!hkv8K5ZEY replied with this 15 years ago, 26 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#259,160
@259,001 (C)
So god never does anything horrible in either Testament?
Anonymous L replied with this 15 years ago, 2 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#259,199
@previous (buspupps !!hkv8K5ZEY)
God's a dick. The old testament proves it by him demanding the mutilation of all baby penises even though he's fucking God and can change that in an instant. And the new testament proves it by letting his own son suffer and die on the cross, not because it was right, but because it was necessary for him to do a magic trick.
Anonymous O joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 7 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^][v]#259,203
Of course they ignore it. To really believe in Jesus is to believe in shit like loving your enemies and universal salvation. So everyone gets to go to heaven simply because Jesus was a swell dude? That's fucking bullshit. I want my enemies to burn.
(Edited 2 minutes later.)
Anonymous C replied with this 15 years ago, 2 days later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#260,230
@259,160 (buspupps !!hkv8K5ZEY)
The Old Testament frequently ascribes to God's active will what should truly be ascribed to His passive will. This is one of the many defects of Hebrew theology, along with anthropomorphism.
buspupps !!hkv8K5ZEY replied with this 15 years ago, 39 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#260,280
floorboard !hbZVTk6JYc joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 4 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#260,283
@previous (buspupps !!hkv8K5ZEY)
I think he's right. Our anthropomorphized god is basically just a perfect and ultimately powerful man. We're not even creative enough as a species to see god as being more complex than just a caricature of ourselves with limitless power. That's the best we can come up with, and so then we try to ascribe meaning to "his" actions.
buspupps !!hkv8K5ZEY replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#260,284
buspupps !!hkv8K5ZEY double-posted this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#260,287
@260,283 (floorboard !hbZVTk6JYc)
both testaments do this.
floorboard !hbZVTk6JYc replied with this 15 years ago, 30 seconds later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#260,288
@previous (buspupps !!hkv8K5ZEY)
yeah, they sure do.
Anonymous Q joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 4 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#260,290
There is no God, only Zuul.
Anonymous C replied with this 15 years ago, 49 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#260,355
@260,280 (buspupps !!hkv8K5ZEY) @260,284 (buspupps !!hkv8K5ZEY)
The historians of the Old Testament represent actions that God allowed as ones that God caused.
buspupps !!hkv8K5ZEY replied with this 15 years ago, 4 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#260,359
Anonymous G replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#260,389
@previous (buspupps !!hkv8K5ZEY)
it was created when most of the world was jewish and thus specifically designed to keep jews in line.
once more decent people gained majority, a less brutal edition could be drafted.
(Edited 28 seconds later.)
buspupps !!hkv8K5ZEY replied with this 15 years ago, 7 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#260,395
Anonymous C replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#260,462
@previous (buspupps !!hkv8K5ZEY)
I consider tradition and reason to be sources. Do you not? Does everything you know come to you by intuition or divine revelation?
Anonymous G replied with this 15 years ago, 24 minutes later, 3 days after the original post[^][v]#260,479
@260,395 (buspupps !!hkv8K5ZEY)
Tradition and reason.
buspupps !!hkv8K5ZEY replied with this 15 years ago, 10 hours later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#260,650
@260,462 (C)
So the old testament is ignored because of tradition and reason?
buspupps !!hkv8K5ZEY double-posted this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#260,651
Anonymous T joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 30 seconds later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#260,951
@260,949 (WadeWilson[insert my tripcode)
I hear there's a parallel universe somewhere where he actually exists.
WadeWilson[insert my tripcode replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#260,953
@previous (T)
I heard something similar about God.
vocalon !!kirqSGPag joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 6 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#260,957
ITT: HOLY MAD~
Anonymous T replied with this 15 years ago, 7 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#260,960
@260,953 (WadeWilson[insert my tripcode)
Look dude, the point is this: God fucking exits, and he fucking HATES you. He hates all of us. He hated fucking Mother Theresa for as long as he possibly could. God hates humans in the way a man who spends his entire lifetime producing a work of fine art only to be criticized and ridiculed incessantly for doing so hates fucking critics.
All loving my ass. One day, the goddamn sun is going to go supernova and then we'll really see what God's "love" looks like.
(Edited 39 seconds later.)
Dachan-da replied with this 15 years ago, 10 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#260,969
Anonymous T replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#261,019
@previous (WadeWilson[insert my tripcode)
And why wouldn't he be? I've personally been touched by his noodly appendage and it was positively life changing.
WadeWilson[insert my tripcode replied with this 15 years ago, 4 minutes later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#261,023
@previous (T)
Your're conversation is getting boring
Anonymous T replied with this 15 years ago, 36 seconds later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#261,025
@previous (WadeWilson[insert my tripcode)
So stop responding to it then.
WadeWilson[insert my tripcode replied with this 15 years ago, 28 seconds later, 4 days after the original post[^][v]#261,027