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Minichan

Topic: Why is there something instead of nothing?

Mr. Bloody Lemonade !0JqexkOGBc started this discussion 55 minutes ago #137,980

Mr. Bloody Lemonade !0JqexkOGBc (OP) double-posted this 50 minutes ago, 5 minutes later[^] [v] #1,460,109

Maybe I should make a thread for questions like this. Questions that seem simple at face value like "why does space have three dimensions?" Or "why does time only go in one direction when all the other three dimensions let you go either way?"

Or why is space Euclidean in the absence of a gravitational field? Why is the universe flat?

Mr. Bloody Lemonade !0JqexkOGBc (OP) triple-posted this 48 minutes ago, 1 minute later, 6 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,460,110

Then you can also time travel, but only in one direction. How come time travel is possible but only one way?

Mr. Bloody Lemonade !0JqexkOGBc (OP) quadruple-posted this 42 minutes ago, 6 minutes later, 12 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,460,111

Or how come there’s matter in the universe? How come when the universe formed there wasn’t an equal amount of matter and anti matter that annihilated leaving nothing but photons behind?

(Edited 1 minute later.)

boof joined in and replied with this 29 minutes ago, 13 minutes later, 25 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,460,112

apparently it is impossible for there to be nothing

by logic, a true nothing would have no qualities to describe it. there's be no it. there'd be nothing to say about it.

the ability to spring forth things is a quality. a true nothing can't have any quality. a true nothing can't be a progenitor of thing.

Mr. Bloody Lemonade !0JqexkOGBc (OP) replied with this 26 minutes ago, 3 minutes later, 29 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,460,113

@previous (boof)
I’m not sure I agree with that. Logic is an abstraction, logic doesn’t physically exist. If things must obey logic, then if there’s nothing, there’s nothing to disobey logic, so I’m not sure that’s really impossible.

Mr. Bloody Lemonade !0JqexkOGBc (OP) double-posted this 25 minutes ago, 1 minute later, 30 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,460,114

For example, the fire breathing dragon in my kitchen doesn’t exist, but logic doesn’t force it to exist.

Mr. Bloody Lemonade !0JqexkOGBc (OP) triple-posted this 21 minutes ago, 3 minutes later, 34 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,460,115

Unless you say it does exist as an idea then idk.

Anonymous C joined in and replied with this 19 minutes ago, 2 minutes later, 36 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,460,116

@1,460,113 (Mr. Bloody Lemonade !0JqexkOGBc)
So you're admitting you don't believe in logic?

Mr. Bloody Lemonade !0JqexkOGBc joined in and replied with this 16 minutes ago, 2 minutes later, 38 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,460,117

@previous (C)
Saying something is an abstraction isn’t the same thing as saying I believe in or don’t believe in it. English is an abstraction, but you wouldn’t say I don’t believe in words. Everything you’re reading right now is just pixels that are darker surrounded by pixels that are lighter. Any meaning you attach to the patterns you’re seeing is an abstraction. Saying logic is abstract doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, it just means it’s not physical. You can’t hold logic in your hand. It’s intangible.

Mr. Bloody Lemonade !0JqexkOGBc double-posted this 14 minutes ago, 2 minutes later, 40 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,460,118

If you think about it, there’s nothing in nature that forces it to be the case that the letters in the alphabet are associated with the sounds we associate them with, you could create any arbitrary mapping with any arbitrary set of symbols. And we know that’s true because different languages exist. The same thing is true for logic, there’s more than one possible way to represent logic, because logic really if you think about it is a type of math. And the way we represent math is an abstraction.

boof replied with this 13 minutes ago, 1 minute later, 42 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,460,119

@1,460,113 (Mr. Bloody Lemonade !0JqexkOGBc)
well if we can't use reason to discuss this, then there's no discussing of value

Mr. Bloody Lemonade !0JqexkOGBc replied with this 12 minutes ago, 48 seconds later, 43 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,460,120

And different abstractions have different pros and cons. Just because we use one abstraction doesn’t make it the best abstraction. For example, when we do math, we need an order of operations, and we need parentheses to know what order we should do things in. But that’s due to the grammar of our system of math where we have a number an operation and then a number. But if you put the operation at the end so 5 5 + instead of 5 + 5, you don’t need an order of operations and you don’t need parenthesis. I would imagine human languages have similar things, English is SVO but not every language is. Logic is just one way you can describe reality but it’s not the only or the most complete way. I’d argue set theory is more fundamental than logic.

Mr. Bloody Lemonade !0JqexkOGBc double-posted this 12 minutes ago, 34 seconds later, 43 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,460,121

@1,460,119 (boof)
Although, Mars exists but nobody is on Mars talking about it.

Mr. Bloody Lemonade !0JqexkOGBc triple-posted this 8 minutes ago, 3 minutes later, 46 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,460,122

@1,460,120 (Mr. Bloody Lemonade !0JqexkOGBc)
Set theory and logic coincidentally are analogous to each other, but set theory is also analogous to probability.

(Edited 1 minute later.)

Mr. Bloody Lemonade !0JqexkOGBc quadruple-posted this 5 minutes ago, 3 minutes later, 49 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,460,123

At least it’s just my opinion.

(Edited 3 minutes later.)

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