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ToiletAirlines (OP) replied with this 2 hours ago, 1 minute later, 28 minutes after the original post[^][v]#1,434,191
@previous (B)
I kinda doubt it given automation. Brining back manufacturing won’t bring back any jobs because wealthy westerners don’t want to work for a low salary, so the only cost effective way to start making iPhones in Italy is you have to build a big factory and stuff it full of robots.
It might create IT jobs though. We’d also need more electrical and computer engineers.
ToiletAirlines (OP) replied with this 2 hours ago, 43 seconds later, 30 minutes after the original post[^][v]#1,434,193
Also, I’m just gonna say it, I hope Italy never makes iPhones. That would ruin the character of the place. Germany could do it, they have enough land to put it out of the way. That would actually be smart, making iPhones in Germany. Because ASML is in the Netherlands and then there’s semiconductor manufacturing in Dresden.
ToiletAirlines (OP) replied with this 2 hours ago, 2 minutes later, 35 minutes after the original post[^][v]#1,434,199
@previous (B)
We had less wealth on a per-person basis but our GDP as a percentage of global GDP peaked in 1960 at 40%. China produces more vehicles than the United States, Germany, and Japan combined and Chinese EVs are produced with a lot of automation.
Right, so it would be easier to do this today than it was then.
> but our GDP as a percentage of global GDP peaked in 1960 at 40%. China produces more vehicles than the United States, Germany, and Japan combined and Chinese EVs are produced with a lot of automation.
Ok, but what's the relevance of this?
If we have the means to have the same wealthy middle class just like before, what about those other countries being more productive stops us?
We've already established that the money is already coming into America. We already have the GDP to support the middle class, in fact it's higher than it was before.
This is what I'm asking: Why not take the money that already exists in the US, the wealth that's already being produced and sent into the US, to support the same middle class?
We don't need to raise prices, because we've already established what the GDP is today at current prices for cars.
ToiletAirlines (OP) replied with this 2 hours ago, 1 minute later, 43 minutes after the original post[^][v]#1,434,203
@previous (B)
The relevance of that is that we had no competition. China can produce more cars and they can produce them for much less than we can. We can’t just produce the cars, we need someone to buy the cars. A large portion of humanity lives in developing countries where wages are lower. They can afford Chinese cars but if we made cars, people in Asia and Africa wouldn’t be buying them, so we would be outcompeted by China unless we resorted to the same strategy as them, which is hyper automation.
ToiletAirlines (OP) triple-posted this 2 hours ago, 2 minutes later, 46 minutes after the original post[^][v]#1,434,205
In 1960, China was poorer than most African countries. Times have changed, it’s not the same world. They say "make America great again" but the past is a place you can’t go back. We should be looking ahead towards the future, and that isn’t in labor intensive manufacturing. We can still hire more people to manufacture more things, but we should be telling people to study lots of random niche forms of engineering. We would need people who can build efficient automated systems not people to actually physically do the work themselves.
ToiletAirlines (OP) quadruple-posted this 2 hours ago, 6 minutes later, 52 minutes after the original post[^][v]#1,434,206
Which is important to consider, because Africa hasn’t developed yet, China started out worse off than Africa is going to start out when they develop. People have their racial biases or whatever, but it’s probably worth planning for the future. This whole thing could repeat itself.
You still ignored the point about how we *already* have the GDP.
We don't need to raise the price of cars, we could have a middle class just like before *and still have money leftover* without selling one more car or increasing the price of anything.
ToiletAirlines joined in and replied with this 44 minutes ago, 18 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#1,434,215
@1,434,213 (B)
America’s GDP comes from consumption not production. About 70% of our GDP comes from consumer spending, compared to a production heavy economy like China at 40%.
Anonymous B replied with this 32 minutes ago, 11 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#1,434,216
@previous (ToiletAirlines)
How it's generated it beside the point that it's *already* higher than it was in the "golden age" of American manufacturing.
We have the wealth already. If we don't have a big healthy middle class it isn't because of foreign competition or because we have a service economy or anything else. The money is already here, it's just not distributed the way it was before.
We could reenable the living standards of the golden age and then some without bringing in more wealth.
ToiletAirlines replied with this 30 minutes ago, 2 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#1,434,218
@previous (B)
Well, the top income tax bracket in 1960 was 91%, now it’s 37%. If your concern is wealth distribution, that might have something to do with it.
ToiletAirlines double-posted this 25 minutes ago, 4 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#1,434,221
I’m just saying, Elon Musk has a net worth of $800 billion. Now some people have a libertarian mindset and say he can own whatever he wants. And that’s cool, that’s just $800 billion that one person has when you could have 800 billionaires instead. How many new companies and industries could you create by giving 800 people a billion dollars? Guess we’ll never know.