Topic: Freedom or safety?
green !6PPj7P5Iag started this discussion 15 years ago #13,392
Blank.
| Poll option | Votes | Percentage | Graph |
|---|---|---|---|
| Freedom. | 20 | 87% | |
| Safety. | 3 | 13% |
Anonymous B joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 4 hours later[^] [v] #240,339
A nice mix between the two would be alright.
dreamworks !AUIkTW/L46 joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 9 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #240,342
TheSheep !kJ.A4PF7.k joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #240,343
Both, I'm that crazy.
dreamworks !AUIkTW/L46 replied with this 15 years ago, 55 seconds later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #240,344
which is why i live in the netherlands
not really i was born here
not really i was born here
Anonymous B replied with this 15 years ago, 24 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #240,347
dreamworks !AUIkTW/L46 replied with this 15 years ago, 58 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #240,361
Anonymous B replied with this 15 years ago, 13 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #240,369
@previous (dreamworks !AUIkTW/L46)
No I'm English
I'm going to move to Sweden next summer though
No I'm English
I'm going to move to Sweden next summer though
(Edited 22 seconds later.)
dreamworks !AUIkTW/L46 replied with this 15 years ago, 6 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #240,374
Anonymous B replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #240,376
@previous (dreamworks !AUIkTW/L46)
Lol I'm not concrete yet but it would be near or in Stockholm. I plan to post MC stickers at Lina Sandells or even get a room there if I can.
Lol I'm not concrete yet but it would be near or in Stockholm. I plan to post MC stickers at Lina Sandells or even get a room there if I can.
hamfist !!snnYcROO9 joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #240,378
Freedom of speech and information are the two freedoms I'm mainly concerned about
dreamworks !AUIkTW/L46 replied with this 15 years ago, 42 seconds later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #240,380
Anonymous B replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #240,381
dreamworks !AUIkTW/L46 replied with this 15 years ago, 1 hour later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #240,405
sluggy joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 4 minutes later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #240,406
freedom. no true safety derives from giving up freedoms. history, bitches. learn from it.
dreamworks !AUIkTW/L46 replied with this 15 years ago, 10 minutes later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #240,407
Anonymous B replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #240,408
dreamworks !AUIkTW/L46 replied with this 15 years ago, 9 minutes later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #240,412
Triptych !LightPenis joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #240,413
Anonymous B replied with this 15 years ago, 10 minutes later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #240,418
@240,412 (dreamworks !AUIkTW/L46)
@previous (Triptych !LightPenis)
yeah but I am also on EeePc so I don't think it will even run
@previous (Triptych !LightPenis)
yeah but I am also on EeePc so I don't think it will even run
Triptych !LightPenis replied with this 15 years ago, 26 minutes later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #240,423
Anonymous B replied with this 15 years ago, 4 minutes later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #240,429
Triptych !LightPenis replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #240,432
Anonymous B replied with this 15 years ago, 22 minutes later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #240,446
@previous (Triptych !LightPenis)
It's really fun but really hard too. I used http://afteractionreporter.com/2009/02/09/the-complete-and-utter-newby-tutorial-for-dwarf-fortress-part-1-wtf/
It's really fun but really hard too. I used http://afteractionreporter.com/2009/02/09/the-complete-and-utter-newby-tutorial-for-dwarf-fortress-part-1-wtf/
Anonymous I joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 6 minutes later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #240,449
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
Anonymous B replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #240,450
dreamworks !AUIkTW/L46 replied with this 15 years ago, 45 seconds later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #240,452
Anonymous J joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 5 hours later, 16 hours after the original post[^] [v] #240,712
@240,450 (B)
He is categorizing safety as only temporary. Nothing can prevent bad things, at best on can delay them.
He is categorizing safety as only temporary. Nothing can prevent bad things, at best on can delay them.
Anonymous B replied with this 15 years ago, 15 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #241,101
@previous (J)
I disagree. Health and Safety laws here have reduced serious workplace accident 90% since it was implemented.
I disagree. Health and Safety laws here have reduced serious workplace accident 90% since it was implemented.
Anonymous K joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 34 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #241,116
Freedom to the point where it doesn't infringe on the liberty of others.
Anonymous J replied with this 15 years ago, 1 hour later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #241,137
Anonymous B replied with this 15 years ago, 36 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #241,145
@previous (J)
I wouldn't do any job for a company which didn't have a clear and logical health and safety policy, regardless of the immediate danger.
I wouldn't do any job for a company which didn't have a clear and logical health and safety policy, regardless of the immediate danger.
Anonymous J replied with this 15 years ago, 26 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #241,156
Anonymous B replied with this 15 years ago, 6 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #241,157
@previous (J)
I have a plan for my life and I don't intend some fucked-up machine to chew off my arms and make me die before my time is due.
I have a plan for my life and I don't intend some fucked-up machine to chew off my arms and make me die before my time is due.
Anonymous L joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 24 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #241,170
@241,137 (J)
LOL of course not. I'm counting on lack of regulation to provide an endless stream of starving poor and exploitable children to do that. I wouldn't dream of doing such things myself.
LOL of course not. I'm counting on lack of regulation to provide an endless stream of starving poor and exploitable children to do that. I wouldn't dream of doing such things myself.
Anonymous J replied with this 15 years ago, 4 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #241,323
@241,157 (B)
Quite right!
@previous (L)
Funny because the heavily regulated societies of the past provided an endless stream of poor and starving, while the industrial age and beginning of the modern era saw the greatest increase in the wealth and prosperity of humanity the world has ever seen. Regulation retards and disrupts this process of commonwealth by diverting it to the politically well connected.
Quite right!
@previous (L)
Funny because the heavily regulated societies of the past provided an endless stream of poor and starving, while the industrial age and beginning of the modern era saw the greatest increase in the wealth and prosperity of humanity the world has ever seen. Regulation retards and disrupts this process of commonwealth by diverting it to the politically well connected.
Anonymous M joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 7 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #241,324
Anonymous J replied with this 15 years ago, 56 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #241,337
@previous (M)
> Capitalism, it just works.â„¢
Yes.
Children don't NEED to work anymore. Laws didn't make this so; the increased prosperity brought by capitalism brought wealth and leisure time, so that people could afford to educate their children.
> Capitalism, it just works.â„¢
Yes.
Children don't NEED to work anymore. Laws didn't make this so; the increased prosperity brought by capitalism brought wealth and leisure time, so that people could afford to educate their children.
Anonymous M replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #241,339
Anonymous J replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #241,340
@previous (M)
> I hate being free! Make me a slave! Not just me, everyone else too! Save us from ourselves!
your entire argument
> I hate being free! Make me a slave! Not just me, everyone else too! Save us from ourselves!
your entire argument
Anonymous M replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #241,342
Anonymous J replied with this 15 years ago, 5 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #241,347
Anonymous M replied with this 15 years ago, 41 seconds later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #241,348
Anonymous J replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #241,352
Anonymous M replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #241,355
Anonymous J replied with this 15 years ago, 3 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #241,401
Anonymous M replied with this 15 years ago, 8 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #241,403
Anonymous J replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #241,405
Anonymous M replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #241,408
@previous (J)
Buzzword: now a synonym for off-topic.â„¢ You heard about this first on minichan.â„¢ Would you like to redefineâ„¢ any more words? Perhaps you can define "Hello" to mean "I want to eat a baby" while you're at-it.â„¢
Buzzword: now a synonym for off-topic.â„¢ You heard about this first on minichan.â„¢ Would you like to redefineâ„¢ any more words? Perhaps you can define "Hello" to mean "I want to eat a baby" while you're at-it.â„¢
Anonymous J replied with this 15 years ago, 6 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #241,413
Anonymous M replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #241,416
@previous (J)
Oooh, a new system of logic.â„¢ Besides definitionsâ„¢ and logical-systemsâ„¢, what other ad-hoc novelties are you going to pull out of your anusâ„¢ in this thread?â„¢
Oooh, a new system of logic.â„¢ Besides definitionsâ„¢ and logical-systemsâ„¢, what other ad-hoc novelties are you going to pull out of your anusâ„¢ in this thread?â„¢
Anonymous M double-posted this 15 years ago, 20 seconds later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #241,417
Double-posts: They just don't workâ„¢.
(Edited 33 seconds later.)
Anonymous J replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #241,419
Anonymous M replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #241,421
@previous (J)
I forgot that you also loveâ„¢ attacking positions that I don't hold. What other strawmanâ„¢ would you like to mockâ„¢ in your next post? Perhaps you could call me a serial-rapistâ„¢ or a naziâ„¢. Or maybe even a serial-rapist-nazi.â„¢
I forgot that you also loveâ„¢ attacking positions that I don't hold. What other strawmanâ„¢ would you like to mockâ„¢ in your next post? Perhaps you could call me a serial-rapistâ„¢ or a naziâ„¢. Or maybe even a serial-rapist-nazi.â„¢
Anonymous J replied with this 15 years ago, 1 hour later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #241,426
@previous (M)
I suppose you are a freedom-hating libertarian! Perhaps you are a freedom-hating anarchist? A freedom-hating individualist? A freedom-hating minarchist? A freedom-hating voluntaryist?
I suppose you are a freedom-hating libertarian! Perhaps you are a freedom-hating anarchist? A freedom-hating individualist? A freedom-hating minarchist? A freedom-hating voluntaryist?
Anonymous M replied with this 15 years ago, 7 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #241,427
Anonymous J replied with this 15 years ago, 24 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #241,433
Anonymous M replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #241,435
Anonymous J replied with this 15 years ago, 16 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #241,438
Anonymous M replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #241,439
Anonymous N joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 1 hour later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #241,456
@previous (M)
I can, I just think this book would save your time and you'd like it.
Taxation is theft.
I can, I just think this book would save your time and you'd like it.
Taxation is theft.
Anonymous B replied with this 15 years ago, 7 hours later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #241,701
This thread is dildos.
Anonymous M replied with this 15 years ago, 3 hours later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #241,816
Anonymous J replied with this 15 years ago, 2 hours later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #241,874
dreamworks !AUIkTW/L46 replied with this 15 years ago, 12 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #241,878
dreamworks !AUIkTW/L46 double-posted this 15 years ago, 51 seconds later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #241,879
also do you really think nobody would grab power if there was no government?
Anonymous M replied with this 15 years ago, 9 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #241,883
@241,874 (J)
Can you present me an argumentâ„¢ from that book which demonstrates that taxâ„¢ation = theft?â„¢
Can you present me an argumentâ„¢ from that book which demonstrates that taxâ„¢ation = theft?â„¢
Anonymous N replied with this 15 years ago, 1 hour later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #241,931
@241,879 (dreamworks !AUIkTW/L46)
So we need to support the state because if we don't there'll be a state? Why not oppose a state now and forever?
So we need to support the state because if we don't there'll be a state? Why not oppose a state now and forever?
Anonymous N double-posted this 15 years ago, 5 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #241,934
@241,883 (M)
Theft is taking someone's property by force and coercion.
Taxation is taking someone's property by force and coercion.
Theft is taking someone's property by force and coercion.
Taxation is taking someone's property by force and coercion.
Anonymous M replied with this 15 years ago, 6 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #241,936
floorboard !hbZVTk6JYc joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #241,938
I like to pay taxes because I know my money goes to support causes I believe in.
buspuppie !!hkv8K5ZEY joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 19 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #241,948
Taxes are used to pay for services that everyone needs. What's the problem with this?
Anonymous Q joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #241,949
God damn it Anonymous M
Anonymous R joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 41 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #241,960
@241,936 (M)
LOL. People who believe governments can't steal simply because they made up special words to describe it.
LOL. People who believe governments can't steal simply because they made up special words to describe it.
Anonymous M replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #241,961
Anonymous J replied with this 15 years ago, 36 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #241,974
@241,936 (M)
What don't you get? The state demands our money and threatens force against those who do pay (kidnapping and imprisonment - self defence against such aggression will be met by deadly violent force). This is coercion - this is extortion - this is theft.
What don't you get? The state demands our money and threatens force against those who do pay (kidnapping and imprisonment - self defence against such aggression will be met by deadly violent force). This is coercion - this is extortion - this is theft.
Anonymous M replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #241,975
@previous (J)
If you use the government's servicesâ„¢ and do not pay for them, then you are stealingâ„¢. So you have proven that governments stop people from stealingâ„¢. That sounds like a point for statismâ„¢!
If you use the government's servicesâ„¢ and do not pay for them, then you are stealingâ„¢. So you have proven that governments stop people from stealingâ„¢. That sounds like a point for statismâ„¢!
Anonymous J replied with this 15 years ago, 18 seconds later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #241,976
@241,938 (floorboard !hbZVTk6JYc)
That does not change the nature of the institution. Suppose a person is locked in a room. This is still unjust if the person doesn't even want to leave the room.
That does not change the nature of the institution. Suppose a person is locked in a room. This is still unjust if the person doesn't even want to leave the room.
Anonymous J double-posted this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #241,977
@241,948 (buspuppie !!hkv8K5ZEY)
The problem is their coercive nature. It matters not how they are used it matters how they are obtained - through coercive force.
The problem is their coercive nature. It matters not how they are used it matters how they are obtained - through coercive force.
Anonymous J triple-posted this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #241,978
@241,975 (M)
Taxes are demanded regardless of whether one has any service or product rendered to them.
Taxes are demanded regardless of whether one has any service or product rendered to them.
Anonymous M replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #241,980
@previous (J)
The fact that you speak the languageâ„¢ you do, have the educationâ„¢ you do, drink the clean water you do &c.â„¢ are all services the government has rendered to you.â„¢ Tacit consentâ„¢: it just works.â„¢
The fact that you speak the languageâ„¢ you do, have the educationâ„¢ you do, drink the clean water you do &c.â„¢ are all services the government has rendered to you.â„¢ Tacit consentâ„¢: it just works.â„¢
Anonymous J replied with this 15 years ago, 8 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #241,986
@previous (M)
My parents taught me to speak; my parents educated me/I have payed for private education, we have tank water &c. yet the government still takes my money by coercive force! Giving money away at gunpoint to save your lifeâ„¢: it's still theftâ„¢.
My parents taught me to speak; my parents educated me/I have payed for private education, we have tank water &c. yet the government still takes my money by coercive force! Giving money away at gunpoint to save your lifeâ„¢: it's still theftâ„¢.
Anonymous J double-posted this 15 years ago, 44 seconds later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #241,987
Anonymous M replied with this 15 years ago, 5 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #241,994
@241,986 (J)
Did you find the land you live on all by yourself?â„¢ Have you or your parents ever in your entire life used a government-serviceâ„¢? Includedâ„¢ but not limited to: publicly financed roads, air quality control, &c.â„¢
If you actually sat down and thoughtâ„¢, you would see that you are dependent on the governmentâ„¢ in more ways than you think.â„¢
Did you find the land you live on all by yourself?â„¢ Have you or your parents ever in your entire life used a government-serviceâ„¢? Includedâ„¢ but not limited to: publicly financed roads, air quality control, &c.â„¢
If you actually sat down and thoughtâ„¢, you would see that you are dependent on the governmentâ„¢ in more ways than you think.â„¢
(Edited 11 seconds later.)
buspuppie !!hkv8K5ZEY replied with this 15 years ago, 9 hours later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #242,104
@241,986 (J)
They only take it by force if you don't pay, like like most businesses. Do you even personally pay taxes?
They only take it by force if you don't pay, like like most businesses. Do you even personally pay taxes?
(Edited 10 seconds later.)
Anonymous J replied with this 15 years ago, 5 days later, 1 week after the original post[^] [v] #244,909
@241,994 (M)
> Did you find the land you live on all by yourself?â„¢
lol wtf The people who "found" this land died about 40,000 years ago.
You are missing the point (deliberately, I assume). Taxes are not an invoice. They are not a payment for services rendered. Taxes are taken by coercive force, to fund a territorial monopoly.
Taxation comes before services, services which can not be refused.
> Did you find the land you live on all by yourself?â„¢
lol wtf The people who "found" this land died about 40,000 years ago.
You are missing the point (deliberately, I assume). Taxes are not an invoice. They are not a payment for services rendered. Taxes are taken by coercive force, to fund a territorial monopoly.
Taxation comes before services, services which can not be refused.
Anonymous J double-posted this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 week after the original post[^] [v] #244,916
@242,104 (buspuppie !!hkv8K5ZEY)
Begging the question. You imply that the state has a right to charge you in the first place. Consider the following:
> Muggers only take it by force if you don't pay, like like most businesses.
Begging the question. You imply that the state has a right to charge you in the first place. Consider the following:
> Muggers only take it by force if you don't pay, like like most businesses.