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Minichan

Topic: Tech employment is dropping faster than in 2008 or 2020.

Anonymous A started this discussion 21 hours ago #133,507

But remember "it's just advanced autocomplete".

Anonymous B joined in and replied with this 21 hours ago, 33 minutes later[^] [v] #1,422,032

You bastard, fuck you!!

AVeryBlackGuy joined in and replied with this 11 hours ago, 9 hours later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,064

Have you ever considered that the dip after the spike is because of the spike?

AVeryBlackGuy double-posted this 11 hours ago, 4 minutes later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,067

But for real, vibe coding is dumb. I’ve met CS majors who had no idea how to get a web server running because they vibe coded their way through their classes. I was slightly concerned about AI until I actually had to work on a project with other people and I realized how bad AI generated code is. These people had freaking emojis in the GitHub repository with a README.md that said we were using technologies we weren’t even using, and they didn’t even know how to display static files on a web server. Like it’s so bad.

AVeryBlackGuy triple-posted this 11 hours ago, 3 minutes later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,068

I also just hate writing code with AI and I honestly hate it. It’s not fun. It’s a slower process and it doesn’t do what I asked it to do half the time.

Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 11 hours ago, 1 minute later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,073

@1,422,067 (AVeryBlackGuy)

For serious work, the change is that senior devs can delegate simple grunt work to the machine instead of a junior dev.

100% vibe coding has a place for casual users trying to create simple websites or apps, but that's not this dip is about.

AVeryBlackGuy replied with this 11 hours ago, 1 minute later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,074

@previous (A)
The only problem is senior devs retire and every senior dev used to be a junior dev. The market will realize that at some point.

AVeryBlackGuy double-posted this 11 hours ago, 1 minute later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,075

Honestly I’m not a fan of LLMs.

(Edited 2 minutes later.)

Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 11 hours ago, 1 minute later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,078

@1,422,068 (AVeryBlackGuy)
You should be writing the code yourself and using the AI to save time you'd spend on StackOverflow - and their traffic has plummted since GPT was released. It's also useful for docmentation, formatting, and some other things.

Anonymous A (OP) double-posted this 11 hours ago, 16 seconds later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,079

@1,422,075 (AVeryBlackGuy)
That wasnt the claim, are you actually this retarded?

AVeryBlackGuy replied with this 11 hours ago, 1 minute later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,080

@previous (A)
Yeah, I’m retarded because I can write code myself without AI and other people are smart because they can’t contribute to a group project even when they’re using AI assistance.

AVeryBlackGuy double-posted this 11 hours ago, 1 minute later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,081

Honestly the AI thing pisses me off because it’s not really revolutionary. It’s obvious that LLMs are not really artificial intelligence because they’re not intelligent in any meaningful sense. It’s just incompetent people like the idea of getting to pretend they’re smart. Which is annoying as hell when you have to actually deal with people who don’t know what they’re doing.

Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 11 hours ago, 1 minute later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,082

@1,422,080 (AVeryBlackGuy)
No one said "AI is smart". I've got strawman fatigue, bye. 👋

AVeryBlackGuy replied with this 11 hours ago, 2 minutes later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,083

@previous (A)
Good, then you agree with me.

AVeryBlackGuy double-posted this 11 hours ago, 1 minute later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,084

I find it crazy you called me retarded yet you’re accusing me of accusing you of saying something you didn’t say by misrepresenting what I said. I sarcastically said "people who use AI are smart." But you didn’t even read what I wrote.

Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 10 hours ago, 11 minutes later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,087

@previous (AVeryBlackGuy)
You didn't respond to what I actually wrote and you have a habit of making absurd strawman claims, I'm just out of patience. I'll give the be efit of the doubt to someone else, you're just obnoxious.

AVeryBlackGuy replied with this 10 hours ago, 47 seconds later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,088

@previous (A)
Every single comment I’ve made is about AI in a thread you made about AI. You just think that whenever anybody says anything that means they’re accusing you of saying the opposite which is stupid.

AVeryBlackGuy double-posted this 10 hours ago, 2 minutes later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,090

You can bring up a topic and I can say my opinion about that topic and my opinion doesn’t need to have anything to do with your opinion because it’s my opinion. And just because you think something is true doesn’t mean I’m lying if I say I think it’s not true. It’s like you think you’re the only person in the universe and other people don’t have their own functioning brains.

AVeryBlackGuy triple-posted this 10 hours ago, 1 minute later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,092

Which to be honest, given your opinion that black people have lower IQs on average, you seem like the type of narcissistic person who thinks that you’re the sole bearer of truth in the universe and everybody is less intelligent as you so you just feel like you’re so above everybody else you don’t even have to listen to ideas that go against yours. But it’s like, I don’t give a shit. I’m going to say what I think and I don’t care if you agree with it or not.

Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 10 hours ago, 1 minute later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,093

@1,422,088 (AVeryBlackGuy)
@1,422,090 (AVeryBlackGuy)
The topic is about LLMs affecting tech employment, and you made it clear you disagree.

If you want to back up that opinion, go ahead, but talking about whether AI is really conscious or some other shit is just off topic.

AVeryBlackGuy replied with this 10 hours ago, 2 minutes later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,095

@previous (A)
It’s not off topic, it’s directly related. AI is less impressive than people claim it is, and you’re obviously someone who is more impressed with AI than I am. You just don’t like me talking about it because you disagree with my opinion but you don’t feel like explaining why you think I’m wrong.

AVeryBlackGuy double-posted this 10 hours ago, 1 minute later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,096

And by the way, you accused me of a strawman, I don’t even use the word conscious anywhere in this thread. I used the word intelligence. But you called me retarded because I paraphrase what you say, but you do the same thing to me because that’s how language works.

AVeryBlackGuy triple-posted this 10 hours ago, 50 seconds later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,097

That’s what that whole debate about probability was about. Language isn’t precise, you have to guess what I really mean when I say anything based on the probability that’s what people usually mean. You do the same thing because that’s how humans interpret language.

AVeryBlackGuy quadruple-posted this 10 hours ago, 2 minutes later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,098

You have this dumb self righteous ideology that true an false are binary and you believe the truth and everybody else is just too emotional to agree with your truth that you’re just better than everybody else just for existing. Yet you don’t actually think about things in terms of binary true and false because you’re not a computer, you’re a human, and humans generally don’t think in terms of binaries. That’s a function of abstraction. The real world isn’t binary in most cases.

Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 10 hours ago, 29 seconds later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,099

@1,422,095 (AVeryBlackGuy)

Being impressed is a subjective, opinionated thing.

I didn't share my feelings, I gave data.

There's a difference between how you feel about it, and what the data says. Matters of facts vs opinions.

@1,422,096 (AVeryBlackGuy)
You aren't paraphrasing, you're changing the topic to another AI-based topic. Just because they both involve AI doesn't make them the same topic.

If someone came in to share their review of "I, Robot" the movie, it would be AI related, but completely off topic.

AVeryBlackGuy replied with this 10 hours ago, 49 seconds later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,100

And if you’re sooooo impressed with LLMs, LLMs are probabilistic models of natural language, so you really shouldn’t be surprised that natural language is fundamentally probabilistic.

AVeryBlackGuy double-posted this 10 hours ago, 43 seconds later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,101

@1,422,099 (A)
Data is just data. Data doesn’t tell you why, it just tells you what.

AVeryBlackGuy triple-posted this 10 hours ago, 53 seconds later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,102

@1,422,099 (A)
Really? Most of the comments I just posted are me paraphrasing things you’ve said in the past and you’re telling me I don’t paraphrase?

AVeryBlackGuy quadruple-posted this 10 hours ago, 52 seconds later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,103

@1,422,100 (AVeryBlackGuy)

> And if you’re sooooo impressed with LLMs, LLMs are probabilistic models of natural language, so you really shouldn’t be surprised that natural language is fundamentally probabilistic.

Which is also why LLMs fundamentally will always create bugs when writing code no matter how much they improve.

boof joined in and replied with this 10 hours ago, 1 minute later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,104

Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 10 hours ago, 24 seconds later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,105

@1,422,100 (AVeryBlackGuy)
Nothing in this post has anything to do with how AI affects employment.

Whether what you said is true or not doesn't really matter.

Probabilistic or not, it's either resulting in job loss or not. If I'm wrong about the reason for the job losses, AIs probabilistic nature is still unrelated.

It'a like you're so eager to share your thoughts on some random aspect of AI you're trying to shoehorn it in here.

AVeryBlackGuy replied with this 10 hours ago, 1 minute later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,106

@previous (A)

Really, I didn’t say anything about how AI impacts employment?

@1,422,064 (AVeryBlackGuy)

> Have you ever considered that the dip after the spike is because of the spike?

Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 10 hours ago, 4 seconds later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,107

@1,422,101 (AVeryBlackGuy)
Yeah, and if you want to explain how the data is misinterpreted that's one thing.

Instead you're talking about how AI is probabilistic, or unimpressive, or some other unrelated thing.

AVeryBlackGuy replied with this 10 hours ago, 12 seconds later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,108

It’s only the very first thing I said in the entire thread…

Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 10 hours ago, 40 seconds later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,109

@1,422,106 (AVeryBlackGuy)

> Really, I didn’t say anything about how AI impacts employment?

You said a bunch of unrelated shit.

Pointing to one on-topic point doesn't change the multiple spam posts that are unrelated.

Anonymous A (OP) double-posted this 10 hours ago, 30 seconds later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,110

@1,422,108 (AVeryBlackGuy)
I'm not going to engage with a dozen off-topic posts because you had one sentence that was on-topic in the beginning.

AVeryBlackGuy replied with this 10 hours ago, 1 minute later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,113

@1,422,109 (A)
No I didn’t, everything I said is related, you’re just not smart enough to see how everything I said is related. I think that the decline in hiring is because software companies over-hired during COVID. I explained in great detail how in my experience working with other computer science majors I have found that AI does not make people more productive it actually makes them less productive at coding. If you can’t see how that’s related, then that’s your problem. It should be obvious to anyone why if AI doesn’t boost productivity and why if the decline in the job market is caused by something other than AI how that relates back to your claim that the decline in the job market is because of primarily AI.

AVeryBlackGuy double-posted this 10 hours ago, 42 seconds later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,114

@1,422,110 (A)
You say everything you disagree with is either off topic or a strawman because you’re too lazy to actually engage with it.

Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 10 hours ago, 1 minute later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,115

@1,422,113 (AVeryBlackGuy)
This post seems on topic.

But as you've already made clear in other threads, you don't believe debate is worth anything, and you don't believe truth is real, you don't know what a proposition is, and you think personal attacks are a replacement for an actual argument.

I'm not doing this. Bye.

Anonymous A (OP) double-posted this 10 hours ago, 38 seconds later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,116

@1,422,114 (AVeryBlackGuy)
Disagreeing with an argument is not a strawman.

Why don't you actually look up what a strawman is?

+Syntax !AT4qCO/n0Y joined in and replied with this 10 hours ago, 12 seconds later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,117

@1,422,081 (AVeryBlackGuy)

> Honestly the AI thing pisses me off because it’s not really revolutionary. It’s obvious that LLMs are not really artificial intelligence because they’re not intelligent in any meaningful sense. It’s just incompetent people like the idea of getting to pretend they’re smart. Which is annoying as hell when you have to actually deal with people who don’t know what they’re doing.

> it’s not really revolutionary

AVeryBlackGuy replied with this 10 hours ago, 57 seconds later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,118

@1,422,115 (A)
I never said I don’t believe truth is real, I said that truth isn’t necessarily binary because most things in the real world are effectively probabilistic rather than deterministic. But you’re interested in pseudo philosophy and like the idea of binary true and false being the end all and be all because you’re an arrogant personality.

Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 10 hours ago, 25 seconds later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,119

@1,422,117 (+Syntax !AT4qCO/n0Y)
What do you think about that?

LLMs, voice chatbots, generative videos. That's not revolutionary?

Anonymous A (OP) double-posted this 10 hours ago, 44 seconds later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,120

@1,422,118 (AVeryBlackGuy)
This is what I'm talking about. I never claimed everything is binary. There are many things that are grey areas, or probabilistic.

Saying I did, is a strawman.

AVeryBlackGuy replied with this 10 hours ago, 1 minute later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,121

The truth is, is that there is actually more than one theory of logic. Binary is an abstraction not a fundamental underpinning of reality.

AVeryBlackGuy double-posted this 10 hours ago, 1 minute later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,122

@1,422,120 (A)
Well you spent a long time whining about my claim that logic can be probabilistic. But okay, you agree with me that logic is probabilistic and that deterministic scenarios are only a subset of probabilistic scenarios so probability is more fundamental than determinism.

Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 10 hours ago, 58 seconds later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,123

@1,422,121 (AVeryBlackGuy)
No one said everything is binary.

Yet each time I agree with you, that there are many probabilistic parts of the world, you continue to act like I said things are always binary.

That's the perfect example of a strawman.

Anonymous A (OP) double-posted this 10 hours ago, 1 minute later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,125

@1,422,122 (AVeryBlackGuy)

> Well you spent a long time whining about my claim that logic can be probabilistic.

No, that's a lie.

> But okay, you agree with me that logic is probabilistic and that deterministic scenarios are only a subset of probabilistic scenarios so probability is more fundamental than determinism.

Some questions are probabilistic, some are deterministic.

I'm not getting into physical determinism, bell's theorem or any of that, it's off topic.

Anonymous F joined in and replied with this 10 hours ago, 20 seconds later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,126

A classic I said you said scenario.

AVeryBlackGuy replied with this 10 hours ago, 2 seconds later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,127

I’m just saying, computers are based on binary, voltages are not binary, we have to artificially create thresholds for what’s a 0 and what’s a 1. And electrons are discrete but they exist in space as probabilities. An electron doesn’t necessarily have a location in space, it just has a chance of being somewhere.

AVeryBlackGuy double-posted this 10 hours ago, 49 seconds later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,128

@1,422,125 (A)
Well you just said I don’t believe in truth, which is something I never said. I said that binary true and false are abstract concepts. You seem to have a problem with that, and if you don’t, why are you complaining about it?

AVeryBlackGuy triple-posted this 10 hours ago, 3 minutes later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,130

There’s actually a limit to how small you can make a transistor before quantum tunneling will cause voltages to jump across gaps and give you random results instead of deterministic results so you can’t perform computations.

AVeryBlackGuy quadruple-posted this 10 hours ago, 3 minutes later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,134

The real reason computers are binary isn’t because of some fundamental truth of our universe, it’s actually to reduce the amount of circuitry required to perform computations. Binary true and false are not fundamental.

AVeryBlackGuy joined in and replied with this 10 hours ago, 6 minutes later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,136

And now, this is off topic, but you’ve annoyed me enough I might as well be petty and just say it. But you don’t strike me as someone who knows what you’re talking about. For example, when you were arguing about evolution and why you think blacks are less intelligent than whites it’s clear to me that you don’t know anything about human evolution.

The truth is that hominins left Africa more than once. About a million years ago hominins developed stone tools and left Africa and spread out into the old world. But Homo sapiens, our species evolved 300,000 years ago and we left Africa, expanded out into the rest of the world, and we killed off every other species of hominin except for ourselves. Homo sapiens came into contact with Neanderthals in Europe and bred with them, so Europeans always have some small percentage of Neanderthal DNA. But sub Saharan africans are pure Homo sapiens. So it doesn’t make any sense to believe that Africans are genetically less pure or less intelligent when black Africans are the origin of our species and they killed off every other species of human everywhere in the entire world.

boof replied with this 10 hours ago, 2 minutes later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,137

@1,422,081 (AVeryBlackGuy)
yeah it's like the term AI is more a marketing term. virtual intelligence might be closer to what it is, or even simulated intelligence

I like to say that the word intelligence implies that an underlying intellect is present.

(Edited 50 seconds later.)

AVeryBlackGuy replied with this 9 hours ago, 2 minutes later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,138

And all that conjecture you had about "oh well birds are different how are humans different from animals?" It’s true that there used to be multiple species of humans, and it’s true that some of them were more intelligent than others, but Homo sapiens came from Africa, we were the most intelligent, and you are mostly African. There’s less genetic diversity because we killed all the other species off. It’s not the same, you can’t compare humans to animals in that way, there is only one species of human.

(Edited 19 seconds later.)

AVeryBlackGuy double-posted this 9 hours ago, 1 minute later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,139

@1,422,137 (boof)
I mean, I think LLMs useful, but they’re an order of magnitude less useful than everybody says they are.

Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 9 hours ago, 1 minute later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,140

@1,422,137 (boof)
I didn't name it, and most of the people using that term will tell you its not really intelligent.

The people that think its conscious are a minority.

AVeryBlackGuy replied with this 9 hours ago, 2 minutes later, 11 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,141

There’s more genetic variation between different types of Chimpanzees than there are between the human "races" (races aren’t really real in the sense they don’t have clear boundaries). There are subspecies of chimpanzees, there are no extant subspecies of Homo sapiens.

boof replied with this 9 hours ago, 58 seconds later, 12 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,142

@1,422,140 (A)
yeppers, I just a stickler for terminology that informs better

Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 8 hours ago, 57 minutes later, 12 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,150

@1,422,141 (AVeryBlackGuy)

> There’s more genetic variation between different types of Chimpanzees than there are between the human "races" (races aren’t really real in the sense they don’t have clear boundaries). There are subspecies of chimpanzees, there are no extant subspecies of Homo sapiens.

What does this have to do with LLMs or tech?

@previous (boof)
Fair enough.

Anonymous H joined in and replied with this 8 hours ago, 15 minutes later, 13 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,160

Daily reminder to rape them.

AVeryBlackGuy joined in and replied with this 7 hours ago, 41 minutes later, 13 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,186

@1,422,150 (A)
Just reminding you that you’re wrong.

Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 5 hours ago, 2 hours later, 16 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,200

@previous (AVeryBlackGuy)
I see now that LLMs are just a fad, and these tech layoffs are really about overhiring. How else can we reconcile the genetic differences in chimps? 🤔

Anonymous J joined in and replied with this 4 hours ago, 55 minutes later, 17 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,422,213

Small user case: Commercial real estate is a pain in the ass. I now have an agentic workflow that correlates available properties and space, employment, new businesses moving or leasing, latest deals, and high-level dashboards. It can go as high or low as I want and it’s proactive.

This allowed me to cut out a private service’s API and to stop trying to combine a Microsoft BI database with auxiliary Excel.

This same data project required five people and hundreds of thousands of dollars for base data a decade ago.
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