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Topic: LLMs are the new highest level programming language.
Anonymous A started this discussion 15 hours ago#132,870
C replaced assembler, because you could get more done with less work.
Then Java did it to C.
Javascript/Python/Perl added a new layer and most started using those instead of Java.
The lower layers still exist, and some people will still write out new code manually for them, but each layer multiplies the output and brings it closer to our own language.
Now LLMs are doing to all programming languages. You can still use them, but it's more effective to simply state your intentions and have that converted automatically.
You could still learn how to convert your ideas into lower level programming languages, but that is just a artisinal hobby. From a pragmatic, business perspective those are obsolete skills.
You can find people who work making anything by hand, in a time consuming method that feels really authentic. But for the most part it's not a money-maker. Devs are like the amish, there isn't a practical reason they don't use motorized tractors. It's just busywork to make the men feel useful.
BlindingDarkLight joined in and replied with this 4 hours ago, 10 hours later[^][v]#1,417,619
Ngl, this really just sounds like an excuse to not bother learning how things work. If you actually major in computer since, they’ll teach you everything from how to create a neural network down to how computers work at a transistor level. The idea that you don’t need to understand how things work at a low level is completely wrong.
BlindingDarkLight double-posted this 4 hours ago, 3 minutes later, 10 hours after the original post[^][v]#1,417,620
It’s sort of like saying you don’t need to understand algebra because you can type it into ChatGPT. Like, no, there’s value in learning things. If you don’t exert mental effort, you’ll become less intelligent. It’s the same way, if you stopped walking the muscles in your legs would atrophy. I don’t accept this idea that people who actually use their brains and solve hard problems are living in the past because stupid people can talk to a chat bot made by a tech company and believe everything it tells them at face value and feel like they accomplished something, when they really didn’t accomplish anything.
BlindingDarkLight triple-posted this 4 hours ago, 2 minutes later, 10 hours after the original post[^][v]#1,417,621
Especially since if you don’t actually understand the subject matter you’re discussing or the code you’re generating with a chatbot, you’re not going to even know how to evaluate when it’s telling you something that’s not true.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 4 hours ago, 1 minute later, 10 hours after the original post[^][v]#1,417,622
@1,417,619 (BlindingDarkLight)
You wrote your game in C? Ick, if Chris Sawyer can write Roller Coaster Tycoon in asembly you can write your game in assembly.
@1,417,620 (BlindingDarkLight)
You used a calculator to verify your structural engineering docs? Wow, uh, I used an abacus because I actually like to know how the numbers add up.
BlindingDarkLight replied with this 4 hours ago, 36 seconds later, 10 hours after the original post[^][v]#1,417,623
Even the idea that coding is something that some people can’t do because they’re not smart enough to do it, so stupid people act like chatbots are some amazing thing that’s going to revolutionize coding for people. Like… I don’t understand, how could someone not understand how to write code? How could somebody not understand the concept of a variable or an if statement? Nobody is so dumb that they’re incapable of understanding how to code, it’s just laziness and nothing more.
BlindingDarkLight double-posted this 4 hours ago, 1 minute later, 10 hours after the original post[^][v]#1,417,626
@1,417,622 (A)
It doesn’t matter if you write your game in C, other programming languages are written in C, so understanding how C works will help you understand what’s going on underneath. Recently, I took a class where I actually had to learn how C memory management works and write my own memory management instead of using C’s built in memory management. There’s value in knowing how a computer actually works.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 4 hours ago, 36 seconds later, 10 hours after the original post[^][v]#1,417,627
@1,417,623 (BlindingDarkLight)
WYSIWYG drag-an-drop? That's racist. Everyone should be studying HTML elements and writing CSS by hand so they really internalize the building blocks of a website.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 4 hours ago, 40 seconds later, 10 hours after the original post[^][v]#1,417,629
@1,417,626 (BlindingDarkLight)
If you aren't lazy, and if you really care about making the game yourself you shouldn't be relying on compilers.
Compiling code is letting a machine make the important choices while you vaguely describe what you want in C, which is basically just psuedocode made into a language.
Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 4 hours ago, 55 seconds later, 10 hours after the original post[^][v]#1,417,632
@1,417,628 (BlindingDarkLight)
I weave my own textiles and sew them to match my needs. Do you think it's too hard to make your own clothes? Is it too complicated to spin some fibers and cut a template out?
Anonymous A (OP) double-posted this 4 hours ago, 1 minute later, 10 hours after the original post[^][v]#1,417,633
@1,417,631 (BlindingDarkLight)
Is there a reason you NEED the assembler layer to abstract away simple operations? Learn machine code and just type that in directly.
BlindingDarkLight replied with this 4 hours ago, 49 seconds later, 10 hours after the original post[^][v]#1,417,634
They even made us work out the result of binary encoded machine language instructions by hand. They’d give us a memory diagram, with an initial program counter value, and initial register states, all in hexadecimal, and they’d give us a machine instruction in hexadecimal. We’d have to convert the machine instruction in the instruction register from hexadecimal into binary, look up which instruction it is in a table, and perform the operation out by hand to understand the fetch execute cycle.
BlindingDarkLight double-posted this 4 hours ago, 3 minutes later, 10 hours after the original post[^][v]#1,417,635
I’m not saying that chatbots have no utility, I’m just saying, if you’re going to use a chatbot to write code, you should at least understand the code that you’re generating and do the work of making sure that you’re actually learning. There’s value in knowing things.
BlindingDarkLight triple-posted this 4 hours ago, 2 minutes later, 10 hours after the original post[^][v]#1,417,636
I’m all for people being empowered to create things, I support creativity absolutely, but don’t put down people who actually have a desire to think about how things work and have a curiosity to understand things at a deeper level. That’s just anti intellectualism.
BlindingDarkLight quadruple-posted this 4 hours ago, 12 minutes later, 11 hours after the original post[^][v]#1,417,639
They even showed us diagrams of how an ALU works, how memory works, they showed us diagrams of ripple carry adders, half adders, multiplexers, and decoders, an taught us how to do math in binary.
There's no point in learning any of that, all anyone can ever say is "it helps you understand" but never can give one solid example of why it's better.
Compilers and other abstraction layers are designed to do it the best way, focusing on the low level mechanics is a distraction from doing something useful with technology.
BlindingDarkLight joined in and replied with this 3 hours ago, 10 minutes later, 12 hours after the original post[^][v]#1,417,650
@previous (A)
If nobody learned any of that, there wouldn’t be computers in the first place. If you want to get a job working at a company like Intel for example, you should know what an ALU is.
BlindingDarkLight double-posted this 3 hours ago, 1 minute later, 12 hours after the original post[^][v]#1,417,652
Even if there was no point in learning it, the amount that computers have transformed our society, I think if you don’t have any curiosity at all about this subject, then you’re just not very bright to be frank.