Minichan

Topic: The fucking Europeans are trying to get Shamima Begum back in the UK.

Thunder Balls !saAqdaazn2 started this discussion 3 weeks ago #131,929

Mind your own fucking business. We need to leave ECHR now. Fuck Europe.

Father Dave !RsSxeehGwc joined in and replied with this 3 weeks ago, 22 minutes later[^] [v] #1,409,843

She's from Bethnal Green. I was trying to work up a Kwame thread when I saw this news but couldn't think of a good enough one.

Shamima's a psychotic twat but from a strictly legal perspective I think the UK is actually going to lose this case.

Black dude on the internet joined in and replied with this 3 weeks ago, 16 minutes later, 39 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,409,844

I love how white supremacists hate Europe more than I do.

Black dude on the internet double-posted this 3 weeks ago, 2 minutes later, 41 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,409,845

This is completely not my problem lol

Killer Lettuce🌹 !HonkUK.BIE joined in and replied with this 3 weeks ago, 32 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,409,847

@1,409,843 (Father Dave !RsSxeehGwc)
> Shamima's a psychotic twat
Hm, I'm actually not that informed about this case. Let's quickly skim her Wikipedia article...

> [...]did not regret her decision to join IS. Begum said she had been unfazed by seeing the head of a beheaded man as he was "an enemy of Islam"
> She said she had been partly inspired to join IS by videos of fighters beheading hostages and also of "the good life" under the group.
Ah. Rare that I say this, but I'm with Svet on this one! I would rather she stay out, I am not with my EU friends on this one.

Father Dave !RsSxeehGwc replied with this 3 weeks ago, 8 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,409,849

@previous (Killer Lettuce🌹 !HonkUK.BIE)
The issue is that the UK made her stateless, which is illegal. So they tried concocting a story about how she was entitled to Bangladeshi citizenship (Bangladesh refuted this), a country to which she had never been. As I said, she's a cunt, but the UK fancies itself a bastion of law.

There's also the thorny issue of what the reaction would have been if it wasn't brown 15 year old Shamima Begum from Bethnal Green who was groomed online by ISIS but, say, white 15 year old Jennifer Forbes from Islington.

Father Dave !RsSxeehGwc double-posted this 3 weeks ago, 4 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,409,850

Don't get me wrong, she's evil, but that doesn't give the supposedly civilised UK the legal right to dump her on Bangladesh, a country which has fuck-all to do with her. Why should Bangladesh have to deal with a person whom the UK alleges is "a major security threat"? At least the UK could prosecute her if they brought her home and lock her up for decades. Bangladesh can't even do that.

Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU joined in and replied with this 3 weeks ago, 20 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,409,851

@1,409,847 (Killer Lettuce🌹 !HonkUK.BIE)
She's a UK citizen. The UK can punish her for her actions to the maximum extent allowable by law but she is your citizen so she is your problem.

Killer Lettuce🌹 !HonkUK.BIE replied with this 3 weeks ago, 16 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,409,854

@1,409,849 (Father Dave !RsSxeehGwc)
@previous (Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU)
Okay, fair points. I rescind my agreement with Svet. I am not too thrilled with a largely unrepentant ISIS member coming here, but legally I guess the UK is in a tough position here.

Maybe they'll just put her in prison if she does come back, or something. Just letting her walk around freely would probably mean months and months of hostile press from the Daily Mail etc. Probably wouldn't be too safe for her either.

Father Dave !RsSxeehGwc replied with this 3 weeks ago, 7 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #1,409,855

@previous (Killer Lettuce🌹 !HonkUK.BIE)

> months and months of hostile press from the Daily Mail etc.

The Daily Mail has been frothing at the mouth about Shamima Begum for over a decade, the angle being "Evil ISIS bride will commit more TERROR on UK streets if allowed back!".

Hence my thought experiment of what their reaction would have been if this had been a 15 year middle class white girl from leafy Islington. Spoiler alert, it would have been: "Online ISIS gangs are recruiting YOUR CHILDREN!! BRING BACK OUR JENNY!!!"

And one thing is absolutely certain: neither the Daily Mail nor the UK government would have let a white British girl rot stateless in a Syrian camp for nearly 10 years. They could only ever get away with doing that with a brown British girl with "Begum" for a surname.

(Edited 2 minutes later.)

Oatmeal Fucker !BYUc1TwJMU joined in and replied with this 3 weeks ago, 12 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,409,858

@1,409,851 (Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU)

She has been exiled from the UK and has had her citizenship revoked because she's got Bangladesh ancestry so she is entitled for citizenship there too which makes her not stateless.

Killer Lettuce🌹 !HonkUK.BIE replied with this 3 weeks ago, 18 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,409,861

@1,409,855 (Father Dave !RsSxeehGwc)
Sure, you're probably correct about that. The British right-wing press are xenophobic bastards, and this woman being brown and having a name like that probably made it far more palatable.

@previous (Oatmeal Fucker !BYUc1TwJMU)
I think Dave's right, just trying to dump her on Bangladesh is pretty dickish.

Stripping her of citizenship probably seemed like a tough security measure and good PR move at the time, but it's created a legal and moral problem down the line.

I don't know, just quietly take her back and put her in a prison, saves this legal headache for the government. I'm not too thrilled about a largely unrepentant ISIS member coming back, but she can't do much in a prison, and life imprisonment can still be spun as being tough on terror.

(Edited 2 minutes later.)

Killer Lettuce🌹 !HonkUK.BIE double-posted this 3 weeks ago, 4 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,409,862

That said, if the Labour government does end up having to fight this and loses, it is going to be yet more ammo against them...

Black dude on the internet joined in and replied with this 3 weeks ago, 10 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,409,863

@previous (Killer Lettuce🌹 !HonkUK.BIE)
Not to be "that guy" but isn’t letting an ISIS member wander around the world wherever she wants more dangerous than having her in a UK prison cell? Am I missing something here?

Black dude on the internet double-posted this 3 weeks ago, 1 minute later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,409,864

I remember a time when we used to put criminals in prison and say you can’t leave this area, instead of letting criminals roam the world free and saying only non-criminals can stay inside a particular area. That’s an interesting concept.

tteh !MemesToDNA joined in and replied with this 3 weeks ago, 2 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,409,865

As horrendous as she is, and much as I loathe agreeing with bloody Jacob Rees-Mogg, I'm uncomfortable with the idea of people being made stateless or effectively stateless. I won't cry for her though.

If she were American she would've been drone-struck by now in her Rojava camp as an enemy combatant. The Yanks killed al-Awlaki (without trial!) as a lawful act of war for his membership of al-Qaeda.

(Edited 1 minute later.)

tteh !MemesToDNA double-posted this 3 weeks ago, 1 minute later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,409,866

@1,409,863 (Black dude on the internet)
@1,409,864 (Black dude on the internet)
She isn't exactly free. She's being held by Kurdish forces in a detention camp.

Black dude on the internet replied with this 3 weeks ago, 39 seconds later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,409,867

@previous (tteh !MemesToDNA)
Cool. Then why are we talking about this?

tteh !MemesToDNA replied with this 3 weeks ago, 1 minute later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,409,868

@previous (Black dude on the internet)
Because she's a whiny little tart who won't shut up. And because OP made a thread about it.

Black dude on the internet replied with this 3 weeks ago, 5 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,409,869

Tbh I think these days people get too caught up in stories about individuals when we live in a world where individuals really don’t matter very much.

Black dude on the internet double-posted this 3 weeks ago, 1 minute later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,409,870

Like really, if none of us ever knew this woman existed, our lives would be exactly the same. So why even care what happens to her? Why is this newsworthy?

tteh !MemesToDNA replied with this 3 weeks ago, 12 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,409,871

@1,409,869 (Black dude on the internet)
@previous (Black dude on the internet)
It's not Begum herself that really matters, it's that this is a test case. The precedent on deprivation of citizenship and effective statelessness will apply to other people later, including people we might feel more sympathetic toward. She's a bellwether. The safeguard against statelessness (like any other right) only means anything if it still applies when the person is unsympathetic/a cunt.

But yeah the press has turned her into a soap opera because outrage sells Daily Mail copies. The real story isn't her though, it's the precedent we'll be setting. We're meant to be a country of laws.

(Edited 33 seconds later.)

Oatmeal Fucker !BYUc1TwJMU replied with this 3 weeks ago, 26 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,409,872

@1,409,861 (Killer Lettuce🌹 !HonkUK.BIE)

I'm not going to start feeling sorry for Bangladesh because I don't care about it or anybody in it. It's their bad luck that she's entitled to citizenship there and weren't quick enough to revoke it first.

Maybe they could just slip the Kurds some money and make the problem go away

Father Dave !RsSxeehGwc replied with this 3 weeks ago, 24 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,409,876

@previous (Oatmeal Fucker !BYUc1TwJMU)

> I'm not going to start feeling sorry for Bangladesh because I don't care about it or anybody in it.

A solid legal argument.

Oatmeal Fucker !BYUc1TwJMU replied with this 3 weeks ago, 6 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,409,878

@previous (Father Dave !RsSxeehGwc)

I agree!

Killer Lettuce🌹 !HonkUK.BIE replied with this 3 weeks ago, 9 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,409,879

@1,409,872 (Oatmeal Fucker !BYUc1TwJMU)
Revoke? There was nothing to revoke. She could have hypothetically applied for it but never did. And expecting Bangladesh to accept her after the fact of her joining ISIS is pretty ridiculous.

Look I think we all agree that this woman is awful and chooses to be awful, but I think the deeper legal issue about citizenship and statelessness here is far more important, and this thing is not a good hill to die on. She's not dangerous now, just give her a whole life order and let her die in prison.

(Edited 1 minute later.)

Black dude on the internet joined in and replied with this 3 weeks ago, 3 hours later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,409,885

@1,409,872 (Oatmeal Fucker !BYUc1TwJMU)

> I'm not going to start feeling sorry for Bangladesh because I don't care about it or anybody in it.

Crazy you don’t care about a whole country but when I posted that Alex Jones has trans porn on his phone, somehow you cared about that for some reason.

https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/alex-jones-trans-porn-phone-infowars-marissa-minx-a8510801.html

Oatmeal Fucker !BYUc1TwJMU replied with this 3 weeks ago, 7 hours later, 15 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,409,920

@previous (Black dude on the internet)

I have no memory of this, maybe you are confusing me for some other Oatmeal Fucker.
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