At least three people in London with HIV have died after they stopped taking life saving drugs on the advice of their Evangelical Christian pastors. The women died after attending churches in London where they were encouraged to stop taking the antiretroviral drugs in the belief that God would heal them, their friends and a leading HIV doctor said.
> in the belief that God would heal them
And now they're dead. Lololol.
swamplights !!V3J448+/B joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later[^][v]#236,506
This should be criminal. I'm tired of how much power we give these pastors and preachers.
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 3 minutes after the original post[^][v]#236,511
Fuck modern medicine, we have a sky wizard!
!hEyBrieeXM joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 7 seconds later, 3 minutes after the original post[^][v]#236,512
@236,506 (swamplights !!V3J448+/B)
organized religion should be criminal.
believe whatever you want, but as soon as feel the need to systematically brainwash others into following you, go straight to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200.
swamplights !!V3J448+/B replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 6 minutes after the original post[^][v]#236,515
@previous (!hEyBrieeXM)
I feel like it should be a crime for religious leaders to speak out against medical treatment.
!hEyBrieeXM replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 9 minutes after the original post[^][v]#236,520
@previous (swamplights !!V3J448+/B)
i feel the state could do with less competition... isn't one mandated ideology enough?
swamplights !!V3J448+/B replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 12 minutes after the original post[^][v]#236,522
@previous (!hEyBrieeXM)
What counts as a mandated ideology?
dreamworks !AUIkTW/L46 joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 6 minutes later, 18 minutes after the original post[^][v]#236,530
@236,506 (swamplights !!V3J448+/B)
they don't have any power, these people that are now dead are just incredibly stupid and believe whatever they are told
!hEyBrieeXM replied with this 15 years ago, 19 seconds later, 18 minutes after the original post[^][v]#236,532
@236,522 (swamplights !!V3J448+/B)
the ones that are perpetuated by society, and given power over people's lives...
sure, you get to choose which scary man in the sky that you are scared of... but there's definitely going to be one, fact or fiction is your only real choice.
(Edited 38 seconds later.)
swamplights !!V3J448+/B replied with this 15 years ago, 30 seconds later, 19 minutes after the original post[^][v]#236,534
@236,530 (dreamworks !AUIkTW/L46)
Religious figures do have power. You cant see that?
dreamworks !AUIkTW/L46 replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 22 minutes after the original post[^][v]#236,538
@previous (swamplights !!V3J448+/B)
Influence =/= power
swamplights !!V3J448+/B replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 23 minutes after the original post[^][v]#236,540
@previous (dreamworks !AUIkTW/L46)
Explain to me the difference please.
Anonymous F joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 26 minutes after the original post[^][v]#236,542
@236,538 (dreamworks !AUIkTW/L46)
Uh... it kind of is.
swamplights !!V3J448+/B replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 29 minutes after the original post[^][v]#236,545
@previous (F)
Can you explain to me what he means?
Anonymous F replied with this 15 years ago, 47 seconds later, 30 minutes after the original post[^][v]#236,547
@previous (swamplights !!V3J448+/B)
I'm not quite sure myself...
swamplights !!V3J448+/B replied with this 15 years ago, 53 seconds later, 31 minutes after the original post[^][v]#236,548
@236,538 (dreamworks !AUIkTW/L46)
Dream? What makes a powerful person?
swamplights !!V3J448+/B double-posted this 15 years ago, 56 seconds later, 31 minutes after the original post[^][v]#236,549
@236,547 (F)
Dream contradicts a lot of what I say but usually doesn't explain his opinion.
dreamworks !AUIkTW/L46 replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 33 minutes after the original post[^][v]#236,551
@236,540 (swamplights !!V3J448+/B)
Influence is telling people your opinion/propaganda and sometimes they do what you want, but always voluntarily.
Power is forcing people to do what you want, usually not voluntarily .
swamplights !!V3J448+/B replied with this 15 years ago, 7 minutes later, 41 minutes after the original post[^][v]#236,555
@previous (dreamworks !AUIkTW/L46)
What counts as voluntery? Is doing something because you are afraid of hell/dying voluntary? What about those people who listen to their pastor's and force their children to comply?
!hEyBrieeXM replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 42 minutes after the original post[^][v]#236,556
@236,551 (dreamworks !AUIkTW/L46) @previous (swamplights !!V3J448+/B) > Is doing something because you are afraid of hell/dying voluntary?
this.
also, tricking mentally ill people into killing themselves is a bad use of influence and/or power.
(Edited 17 seconds later.)
Anonymous F replied with this 15 years ago, 7 minutes later, 50 minutes after the original post[^][v]#236,566
@236,551 (dreamworks !AUIkTW/L46)
Influence/power can pretty much be used interchangeably.
dreamworks !AUIkTW/L46 replied with this 15 years ago, 9 minutes later, 59 minutes after the original post[^][v]#236,569
@236,555 (swamplights !!V3J448+/B)
yes, i think so, it's at the very least more voluntary than having a gun pushed in your neck @236,556 (!hEyBrieeXM) > also, tricking mentally ill people into killing themselves is a bad use of influence and/or power.
yes @previous (F)
now it's just semantics
swamplights !!V3J448+/B replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#236,570
@previous (dreamworks !AUIkTW/L46)
You didn't fully answer me. Can't you use your influence to gain power?
swamplights !!V3J448+/B double-posted this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#236,573
@236,569 (dreamworks !AUIkTW/L46)
I believe that the more people you can influence,the more power you have.
dreamworks !AUIkTW/L46 replied with this 15 years ago, 9 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#236,578
@236,570 (swamplights !!V3J448+/B)
yes, that doesn't make them the same thing.
@previous (swamplights !!V3J448+/B)
but you don't need influence for power, for example, the nazis in poland had very little influence on the people because everyone hated them yet very much power
Killer Lettuce !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 15 years ago, 4 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#236,580
You can have power without influence, but influence itself implies a degree of power of something or someone.
Anonymous G joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 5 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#236,585
stopped a Evangelical
swamplights !!V3J448+/B replied with this 15 years ago, 8 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#236,586
@236,578 (dreamworks !AUIkTW/L46)
Hitler had a lot of influence in Poland (including Polish elected officials). In fact Poland was rife with antisemitism which worsened due to border disputes beginning in the 1900's.
marvin !H0G.H/BnJg joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 11 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#236,587
@236,515 (swamplights !!V3J448+/B)
But don't you think it's the responsibility of people with a medical condition to figure out what's reasonable advice and what isn't?
I think it'd be different if it were a medical professional giving this advice. A normal person wouldn't take a pastor's recommendations as medically sound.
Anonymous I joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 51 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#236,588
@236,512 (!hEyBrieeXM)
Madison Avenue does NOT approve!
swamplights !!V3J448+/B replied with this 15 years ago, 11 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#236,589
When the Polish ambassador in Berlin, Jozef Lipski, had an interview with Hitler on 20 September 1938, he told him that if he, Hitler, succeeded in solving the Jewish problem in Poland, then the Polish people in gratitude would erect a memorial to him in the most beautiful part of Warsaw. Ambassador Lipski included that promise in his report on the meeting to Polish Foreign Minister Beck.
If senior officials of the Polish Government welcomed the proposed solution of the Jewish problem in their country, than what was the norm for the rest of Polish society?
swamplights !!V3J448+/B double-posted this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#236,591
@236,587 (marvin !H0G.H/BnJg)
You say "normal" but many more people are religious than not.
marvin !H0G.H/BnJg replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#236,594
@previous (swamplights !!V3J448+/B)
The vast majority of religious people believe in medical science over faith healing. Very few would plan their lives around a doomsday prediction. I think you're assuming some really nasty things about the mental health of people who just happen to believe differently than you do. These are the exceptions.
swamplights !!V3J448+/B replied with this 15 years ago, 6 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^][v]#236,597
@previous (marvin !H0G.H/BnJg)
I don't think that religious people are crazy, but we should protect people from being manipulated by religion. This man made false predictions and took money from his flock. This should at least count as false advertising.
marvin !H0G.H/BnJg replied with this 15 years ago, 6 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#236,598
@previous (swamplights !!V3J448+/B)
Should we protect them from psychics, homeopaths, and advice columnists, too?
swamplights !!V3J448+/B replied with this 15 years ago, 44 seconds later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#236,599
@previous (marvin !H0G.H/BnJg)
Homeopaths and psychics, yes.
Anonymous F replied with this 15 years ago, 4 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#236,606
@236,597 (swamplights !!V3J448+/B) @previous (swamplights !!V3J448+/B)
What if they genuinely believe what they're saying is correct, and want to help people?
marvin !H0G.H/BnJg replied with this 15 years ago, 16 seconds later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#236,607
@236,599 (swamplights !!V3J448+/B)
Why? Who's going to judge what the "correct" advice is?
What about all the times medical science has been wrong or worse?
swamplights !!V3J448+/B replied with this 15 years ago, 40 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#236,621
Sorry, I just got back. You both are probably right, is there any way to prevent such things?
Anonymous F replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^][v]#236,623
@previous (swamplights !!V3J448+/B)
You could make it illegal to say such things with malicious intent, but it would be hard to prove that someone had malicious intent.
(Edited 17 seconds later.)
Anonymous J joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 1 hour later, 4 hours after the original post[^][v]#236,663
Let Christianity run its course and have it kill off its gullible followers.