Minichan

Topic: Schools are fucked up

Anonymous A started this discussion 1 month ago #131,248

Spend my childhood learning about irrelevant crap, then they couldn't even give me free meals. Pff.

Anonymous B joined in and replied with this 1 month ago, 2 minutes later[^] [v] #1,404,809

If only it was all irrelevant trivia.

Teachers unions push political ideology, and students get caught up in it and feel empowered to push that ideology onto other because the authority figures most active in their lives back them up.

Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 1 month ago, 4 minutes later, 7 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,404,811

It's a place mostly not for your own benefit. Just think schools should at least pay them with a warm meal

Ebolalalala joined in and replied with this 1 month ago, 7 minutes later, 14 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,404,812

@1,404,809 (B)
When I was in school they taught me crazy radical ideas like "slavery is bad."

Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 1 month ago, 1 minute later, 15 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,404,813

@previous (Ebolalalala)

Were you on the fence about it before hand?

Ebolalalala replied with this 1 month ago, 16 seconds later, 15 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,404,814

Tbh if I have any complaint about public education in the United States, it’s that our math and science education sucks.

Ebolalalala double-posted this 1 month ago, 4 minutes later, 19 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,404,815

@1,404,813 (A)
I’m just joking that what they teach in schools really isn’t that radical. They still give a very sanitized version of history. Black people (used to be now I think there are actually more Hispanics) the largest ethnic minority in the United States, so they can’t get away with not teaching about slavery and the civil rights movements. They don’t teach anything about women’s rights, or about the native Americans, or the Japanese or anything like that.

Ebolalalala triple-posted this 1 month ago, 5 minutes later, 25 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,404,816

Tbh it could be part of why our politics are so radicalized. Because we sanitize everything except black American history, white people who had Irish or Italian ancestors don’t learn that people used to be racist against them so they end up feeling reactionary white guilt, and then black Americans are only taught about slavery, not about the concentration camps they put Japanese Americans in or the trail of tears or women’s suffrage, so then black Americans end up thinking they’re more oppressed than anyone else ever and white people end up thinking they never were oppressed and never oppressed anybody else except black people. So it creates this white vs black dynamic.

(Edited 38 seconds later.)

Ebolalalala quadruple-posted this 1 month ago, 5 minutes later, 30 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,404,817

Then it also has this effect of, if white people believe that they were never oppressed and white people believe that they only oppressed black people, and black people believe that they’re the only ones who were ever oppressed, if everyone in a society believes something about the social order, it ends up becoming true.

Ebolalalala quintuple-posted this 1 month ago, 2 minutes later, 32 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,404,818

The idea of using teachers as "engineers of the human soul" has been tried before.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineers_of_the_human_soul

(Edited 40 seconds later.)

Ebolalalala sextuple-posted this 1 month ago, 6 minutes later, 38 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,404,820

I mean, for instance, the idea that when the country was founded, black people couldn’t own land, and only land owners would vote, if people were taught that the English originally came up with that idea when did that in Ireland to create a fake democracy there, that would probably make people understand things in a different way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plantations_of_Ireland

Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 1 month ago, 3 seconds later, 38 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,404,821

@1,404,818 (Ebolalalala)

But now it's not only the people who can educate the people. AI could become highly tailored mentors

Ebolalalala replied with this 1 month ago, 3 minutes later, 41 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,404,824

@previous (A)
AI is created by people. They have their own motives.

(Edited 30 seconds later.)

Anonymous A (OP) replied with this 1 month ago, 5 minutes later, 47 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,404,825

@previous (Ebolalalala)

Sure, but it still means cheap mentors. Don't like the motive of "Socrates006"? Maybe pick that karl... Sagan guy. Or whatever his name was

Ebolalalala replied with this 1 month ago, 1 minute later, 49 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #1,404,828

@previous (A)
I’ve found that LLMs either don’t give me straightforward answers or consistent answers.

Anonymous B replied with this 1 month ago, 2 hours later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,404,845

@previous (Ebolalalala)
You can prompt it to keep the answer concise and straightforward, or you can prompt it to give long-winded essays.

If you're not getting the responses you want, you aren't prompting it correctly.

Ebolalalala joined in and replied with this 1 month ago, 2 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,404,846

@previous (B)
No, I mean, I’ve asked it factual questions and it gave me opposite answers depending on the way I phrased it.

Ebolalalala double-posted this 1 month ago, 25 seconds later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,404,847

And I’m talking about questions with yes/no answers.

Ebolalalala triple-posted this 1 month ago, 2 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,404,848

I think chatbots are useful, but they’re basically just autocomplete algorithms. They don’t actually possess intelligence, they just spit out the most common answer that you would find on the internet, because that’s what they’re trained on in the first place.

Ebolalalala quadruple-posted this 1 month ago, 14 minutes later, 3 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,404,849

…a lot of the information on the internet is people writing posts in forums who don’t really quite know what they’re talking about. Which is why Reddit ranks so high in the search results. That’s where they got the data on conversations from.

Anonymous E joined in and replied with this 1 month ago, 50 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,404,854

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/google-reddit-60-million-deal-ai-training/

Anonymous E double-posted this 1 month ago, 2 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,404,855

To be fair though, at least google paid for something. OpenAI just steals everything illegally. (But gets away with it).

Anonymous B replied with this 1 month ago, 1 hour later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,404,877

@1,404,848 (Ebolalalala)
Not disagreeing, but that's exactly how people act.

Anonymous B double-posted this 1 month ago, 31 seconds later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,404,878

@1,404,849 (Ebolalalala)
Yes, so the problem it has is that it does exactly what many people do.

Anonymous B triple-posted this 1 month ago, 1 minute later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,404,880

@1,404,855 (E)
What law makes it illegal to train on someone else's data?

Again, people do this. Someone will repeat what they read in a copyrighted book or article without getting permission to recreate the work.

Father Dave !u5oFWxmY7U joined in and replied with this 1 month ago, 12 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,404,887

I like to visit schools.

Anonymous G joined in and replied with this 1 month ago, 29 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,404,894

@1,404,880 (B)

> What law makes it illegal to train on someone else's data?
>
> Again, people do this. Someone will repeat what they read in a copyrighted book or article without getting permission to recreate the work.

Mass ingestion of copyrighted content, and reuse of that content, is theft and plagiarism without a fee. Repeating something you’ve read isn’t the same.

Meta tried to argue that millions of books have “no economic value” and was rebuffed.

Ebolalalala joined in and replied with this 1 month ago, 5 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,404,895

I feel like stealing is immoral.

Anonymous B replied with this 1 month ago, 1 minute later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,404,896

@1,404,894 (G)

> > Again, people do this. Someone will repeat what they read in a copyrighted book or article without getting permission to recreate the work.
>
> Mass ingestion of copyrighted content, and reuse of that content, is theft and plagiarism without a fee.

Ingesting copyrighted content isn't illegal, even if you didn't pay. Only distribution of that content, with some exceptions, would be illegal.

> Repeating something you’ve read isn’t the same.

The law doesn't make the distinction between a person or machine doing it, it just defines infringement and fair use.


> Meta tried to argue that millions of books have “no economic value” and was rebuffed.

Their argument was that they never seeded the torrent. If that's true, it isn't illegal because the courts have already established that only distribution is criminal.

Ebolalalala joined in and replied with this 1 month ago, 41 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,404,897

@previous (B)
I don’t care what the law says, we can change the law, I think it’s immoral, and if the law doesn’t make a distinction we should rewrite it. Intellectual property should be protected.

(Edited 48 seconds later.)

Ebolalalala double-posted this 1 month ago, 1 minute later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,404,898

Of course we won’t though because you know why.

Anonymous B replied with this 1 month ago, 1 hour later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,404,912

@1,404,897 (Ebolalalala)
So we can't have AI models that can generate anything we can ask it for because some self-published authors think it will make them money?

boof joined in and replied with this 1 month ago, 32 minutes later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #1,404,913

@1,404,809 (B)

> If only it was all irrelevant trivia.
>
> Teachers unions push political ideology, and students get caught up in it and feel empowered to push that ideology onto other because the authority figures most active in their lives back them up.

you need to punch whoever you rely upon for information about the world, because they're making you look really fuckin retarded

Anonymous B replied with this 1 month ago, 20 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,405,027

@previous (boof)
My eyes and ears.

Ebolalalala joined in and replied with this 1 month ago, 1 hour later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,405,028

@previous (B)

> My eyes and ears.

If I’m being honest, blaming unions for propagandizing children is just evidence that you’ve bought into the propaganda that rich people want you to believe in, which is that organized labor is bad or equivalent to socialism. And also that socialism is equivalent to communism, and that communism is equivalent to Marxist Leninism. But that’s a whole can of worms… I don’t even really know where to start.

Ebolalalala double-posted this 1 month ago, 3 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,405,029

You know in China, unions are illegal because in America the reason you can unionize is because you have the right to freedom of association, which is a thing authoritarian countries don’t have? Crazy…

Ebolalalala triple-posted this 1 month ago, 3 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,405,030

And you do know what freedom of association is right? It’s part of the first amendment, aka, free speech.

boof replied with this 1 month ago, 22 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,405,037

@1,405,027 (B)
oh please tell us your adventures

Anonymous B replied with this 1 month ago, 50 seconds later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,405,038

@1,405,028 (Ebolalalala)
I'm in favor of organized labor most of the time, when it's negotiating with a private corporation.

Public unions are getting their gains as the expense of the taxpayer. Teachers unions, like police unions, are people in positions of power backed by the state who have increased their power further with unions.

I would support a teachers union at a private school.

Ebolalalala replied with this 1 month ago, 5 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,405,039

@previous (B)
Teachers don’t really get paid that much. Elon Musk gets way more money from the government than any teacher does.

Ebolalalala double-posted this 1 month ago, 1 minute later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,405,040

Now, people who teach engineering or CS at top tier public universities, those are the only teachers that actually get paid decent salaries.

(Edited 2 minutes later.)

Ebolalalala triple-posted this 1 month ago, 1 minute later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,405,041

Elementary middle and high school teachers make like 40k/year, there are some CS professors who make 300k.

(Edited 28 seconds later.)

Anonymous L joined in and replied with this 1 month ago, 9 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #1,405,095

@previous (Ebolalalala)
CS professors are redundant. Claude can tutor in advanced concepts and produce code for niche bespoke applications.
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