Topic: Arrests made in Amish beard-cutting attacks
marvin !H0G.H/BnJg started this discussion 15 years ago #12,760
Members of a breakaway sect have been breaking into Amish homes and cutting off men's beards and women's hair:
Myron and Arlene Miller were lying in bed about 10:45 p.m. Wednesday when their 15-year-old daughter woke them to say a pickup truck and trailer had just pulled into their driveway.
Four to six men got out of the truck and knocked on the door, asking for her father, the bishop for the Mechanicstown Amish church.
When Myron Miller walked to the door, a man grabbed him by his long, traditional beard - the sign that an Amish man is married, according to scripture - and forced him out the front door.
Miller was surrounded by the other men, who used scissors to cut out a chunk of his beard. They were unable to get more, the 45-year-old Miller said, because he struggled so hard. In mid-tussle, the leader of the group ordered everyone to flee.
The Millers said they were the fifth Amish family in the last several weeks to be terrorized by what the Millers believe is a group that once was Amish but is now believed to have formed a cult in nearby Bergholz, Jefferson County.
Four arrests were made today: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/10/08/ap/business/main20117746.shtmlFour to six men got out of the truck and knocked on the door, asking for her father, the bishop for the Mechanicstown Amish church.
When Myron Miller walked to the door, a man grabbed him by his long, traditional beard - the sign that an Amish man is married, according to scripture - and forced him out the front door.
Miller was surrounded by the other men, who used scissors to cut out a chunk of his beard. They were unable to get more, the 45-year-old Miller said, because he struggled so hard. In mid-tussle, the leader of the group ordered everyone to flee.
The Millers said they were the fifth Amish family in the last several weeks to be terrorized by what the Millers believe is a group that once was Amish but is now believed to have formed a cult in nearby Bergholz, Jefferson County.
(Edited 27 seconds later.)
Anonymous B joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later[^] [v] #229,607
Maybe they are just the fashion police.
Anonymous C joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 16 seconds later, 2 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #229,608
If that is the worst they do, then it is not so bad.
marvin !H0G.H/BnJg (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 3 minutes later, 6 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #229,609
Anonymous C replied with this 15 years ago, 33 seconds later, 6 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #229,611
!VoCaLoNunI joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 9 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #229,615
marvin !H0G.H/BnJg (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 58 seconds later, 10 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #229,617
stickybuns !bENfolDsOU joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 12 minutes later, 22 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #229,623
People are weird.
Anonymous C replied with this 15 years ago, 1 minute later, 23 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #229,624
Overall, it is a hairy situation.
Anonymous B replied with this 15 years ago, 17 minutes later, 41 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #229,630
Ks !KansasxqvM joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 4 minutes later, 46 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #229,632
I'd like to know the motivation behind these hair-cutting attacks lol, its just so bizarre.
Anonymous C replied with this 15 years ago, 2 minutes later, 48 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #229,633
Freecode !!4IKKtS9GG joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 5 minutes later, 53 minutes after the original post[^] [v] #229,634
They didn't use electric razors, did they?Unintentional Jackass !LASXURl1b6 joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 22 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #229,643
!VoCaLoNunI replied with this 15 years ago, 4 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #229,644
Leo Vegas !gNoGoD5HzQ joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 14 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #229,645
Amish people claim to be Christian yet do not forgive the people who did them wrong, they called the police and reported them. Hypocrites.
Anonymous C replied with this 15 years ago, 41 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #229,646
!hEyBrieeXM joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 5 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #229,648
i just saw this on the news. sadly no interview with the amish peoples, but they interviewed a really pissed off sheriff guy.
it's definitely a hate crime! possible life in prison.
lolmerica.
it's definitely a hate crime! possible life in prison.
lolmerica.
!VoCaLoNunI replied with this 15 years ago, 4 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #229,651
Anonymous C replied with this 15 years ago, 31 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #229,652
!VoCaLoNunI replied with this 15 years ago, 14 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #229,658
Anonymous C replied with this 15 years ago, 32 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #229,661
!VoCaLoNunI replied with this 15 years ago, 5 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #229,669
@previous (C)
I don't know, but my pun list is dying, and I had better trim it so it doesn't get any worse.
I don't know, but my pun list is dying, and I had better trim it so it doesn't get any worse.
Anonymous C replied with this 15 years ago, 41 seconds later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #229,671
Anonymous K joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 8 hours later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #229,787
@229,645 (Leo Vegas !gNoGoD5HzQ)
I thought the police said the Amish refused to aid their investigation.
I thought the police said the Amish refused to aid their investigation.
Anonymous L joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 27 minutes later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #229,806
can we please swap our pakis and blacks for the amish gang
sluggy joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 15 minutes later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #229,832
@229,611 (C)
It's a brutal attack. The ones being attack don't know how far they will take it.
Can the Amish use phones? They might not even be able to call 911.
It's a brutal attack. The ones being attack don't know how far they will take it.
Can the Amish use phones? They might not even be able to call 911.
sluggy double-posted this 15 years ago, 4 minutes later, 10 hours after the original post[^] [v] #229,835
Then again, it's not as damaging as what the Amish do to anyone who realizes they made a mistake when they were a teen and want to leave.
Amish are fucks. I don't mean the simple lives. I'm sure they are happy. Remove the cult aspects, and they could be good people. Of course, without the religious incentive, the lifestyle would die.
Amish are fucks. I don't mean the simple lives. I'm sure they are happy. Remove the cult aspects, and they could be good people. Of course, without the religious incentive, the lifestyle would die.
marvin !H0G.H/BnJg (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 2 hours later, 13 hours after the original post[^] [v] #229,928
@229,787 (K)
Yeah, as expected. Amish communities are a haven of abuse, they have no interest in the police getting involved in their lives.
Yeah, as expected. Amish communities are a haven of abuse, they have no interest in the police getting involved in their lives.
Anonymous K replied with this 15 years ago, 6 hours later, 20 hours after the original post[^] [v] #230,308
@previous (marvin !H0G.H/BnJg)
> Amish communities are a haven of abuse
Source? That there is more abuse in Amish communities than non-Amish?
> Amish communities are a haven of abuse
Source? That there is more abuse in Amish communities than non-Amish?
marvin !CaTLdYmooc (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 1 month later, 1 month after the original post[^] [v] #258,578
More arrests; ringleaders may be charged under federal hate crime laws:
http://volokh.com/2011/11/28/religious-fundamentalists-attack-alleged-heretics-and-heretics%E2%80%99-backers/
@previous (K)
Nah, don't feel like looking for one. It's well-known to those familiar with the Amish/in Amish-heavy areas... and I think it's pretty logical with any insular, patriarchal community... cults, reservations, religious settlements, whatever.
http://volokh.com/2011/11/28/religious-fundamentalists-attack-alleged-heretics-and-heretics%E2%80%99-backers/
“You’ve got Amish all over the state of Ohio, Pennsylvania and Indiana that are concerned,†said Jefferson County Sheriff Fred Abdalla. “We’ve received hundreds and hundreds of calls from people living in fear. They are buying Mace. Some are sitting with shotguns. They’re putting locks on their doors — because of Sam Mullet.â€
@previous (K)
Nah, don't feel like looking for one. It's well-known to those familiar with the Amish/in Amish-heavy areas... and I think it's pretty logical with any insular, patriarchal community... cults, reservations, religious settlements, whatever.
(Edited 14 seconds later.)
Anonymous N joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 27 minutes later, 1 month after the original post[^] [v] #258,580
Obviously the attackers understand this to be a violation, otherwise it'd be pointless for them to do it in the first place.
People who intentionally set out to violate others simply because they are different must be punished. This is why hate crime laws were written, to take the concept of "damages" out of the equation and shift the focus to intent.
People who intentionally set out to violate others simply because they are different must be punished. This is why hate crime laws were written, to take the concept of "damages" out of the equation and shift the focus to intent.
marvin !CaTLdYmooc (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 25 minutes later, 1 month after the original post[^] [v] #258,586
@previous (N)
> Obviously the attackers understand this to be a violation, otherwise it'd be pointless for them to do it in the first place.
>
> People who intentionally set out to violate others simply because they are different must be punished. This is why hate crime laws were written, to take the concept of "damages" out of the equation and shift the focus to intent.
I think it's the opposite actually, at least the traditional argument for hate crimes legislation--that the harm inflicted by a hate crime is worse due to how it radiates out to other members of the targeted group, sort of an expanded view of the harm caused.
> Obviously the attackers understand this to be a violation, otherwise it'd be pointless for them to do it in the first place.
>
> People who intentionally set out to violate others simply because they are different must be punished. This is why hate crime laws were written, to take the concept of "damages" out of the equation and shift the focus to intent.
I think it's the opposite actually, at least the traditional argument for hate crimes legislation--that the harm inflicted by a hate crime is worse due to how it radiates out to other members of the targeted group, sort of an expanded view of the harm caused.
Anonymous N replied with this 15 years ago, 40 minutes later, 1 month after the original post[^] [v] #258,592
@previous (marvin !CaTLdYmooc)
> I think it's the opposite actually, at least the traditional argument for hate crimes legislation--that the harm inflicted by a hate crime is worse due to how it radiates out to other members of the targeted group, sort of an expanded view of the harm caused.
I hear what you're saying, but that's only potential harm, no? I'm not 100% sure on this, but I pretty sure hate crime laws don't actually require proof of actual harm to the targeted community, only proof of a crime against a member of said community with the deliberate intent of damaging the community at large. I'm no lawyer, but I follow these things and I'm pretty sure that's how hate crime legislation has played out in court.
> I think it's the opposite actually, at least the traditional argument for hate crimes legislation--that the harm inflicted by a hate crime is worse due to how it radiates out to other members of the targeted group, sort of an expanded view of the harm caused.
I hear what you're saying, but that's only potential harm, no? I'm not 100% sure on this, but I pretty sure hate crime laws don't actually require proof of actual harm to the targeted community, only proof of a crime against a member of said community with the deliberate intent of damaging the community at large. I'm no lawyer, but I follow these things and I'm pretty sure that's how hate crime legislation has played out in court.
Anonymous O joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 5 minutes later, 1 month after the original post[^] [v] #258,594
Oh I lol'd. Thanks for sharing this.
marvin !CaTLdYmooc (OP) replied with this 15 years ago, 47 minutes later, 1 month after the original post[^] [v] #258,598
@258,592 (N)
Oh, it's not required to prove the harm to the group--I'm just speaking of the argument for/intent behind the laws, not the elements of the crime. Actually, I don't think the gubmint needs to show the defendant intended harm to the group at all, just that group membership played into the selection of a victim or motivation for the crime.
It's similar to the increased severity of sexual crimes, where (it's believed) there's enough of a harm to the class of "like" victims and general community that the legislature makes them punished more harshly than a similar assault lacking the sexual element, without having to show that a particular defendant actually intended to make women more fearful walking alone at night, etc.
Oh, it's not required to prove the harm to the group--I'm just speaking of the argument for/intent behind the laws, not the elements of the crime. Actually, I don't think the gubmint needs to show the defendant intended harm to the group at all, just that group membership played into the selection of a victim or motivation for the crime.
It's similar to the increased severity of sexual crimes, where (it's believed) there's enough of a harm to the class of "like" victims and general community that the legislature makes them punished more harshly than a similar assault lacking the sexual element, without having to show that a particular defendant actually intended to make women more fearful walking alone at night, etc.
Bobby2Sox !!ztPBX/o0I joined in and replied with this 15 years ago, 15 minutes later, 1 month after the original post[^] [v] #258,602
I think they are just trying to make Goons out of them. A case of...
Hair today, Goon tomorrow
Hair today, Goon tomorrow